DracoDei
2010-01-07, 06:43 AM
Wikipedia-like cross-referencing: Resonance Forks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178563)
and Another class that can break down items for XPs (and GPs) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11259552#post11259552)
Simple concept here, my question to my fellow brewers is how to balance the execution...
Illustrative dialogue:
Wizard: Well, I finished analyzing the enchantments on our just rewards from those demons we killed two days ago.
Paladin: Don't know why you even bothered with some of it, I told you it should be destroyed.
Wizard: Oh, I agree with your principles, you know that, but there are certain things your training in understanding the ways of magic didn't prepare you for. But we will get to that in a second.
Paladin: Say on then.
Wizard: Right, Ok, this rod here... the brass one with the little spikes? Yeah, we can melt that down in my lab together, and make sure none of the taint stays with the metal... which is rare, but possible.
Paladin: Out of curiosity, what does it do exactly?
Wizard: Well, consider the type of demon it came off of and then... actually, you know what? You will really sleep better NOT knowing... suffice to say that there is just NO appropriate use for such a thing...
Paladin: Ok, but what about that sword? None of us can even use it without our very souls being weakened as long as we wield it.
Wizard: Ah, now we come to the crux of the matter... it does have a property that renders it antithetical to our spirits, but it also has many simply useful powers, it is, in truth, a much more powerful weapon than any of us currently possess. The answer is quite simple when you think about it. What one can create with care, one can also destroy with care, just as an architect may remove only the part of a building that does not suit a new owner, so does the same skill that allows me to create the enchantments for your arrows that make then especially deadly either to devils or demons (but never both for the same arrow, since that would be a waste of magic), allow me to undo only that portion of the enchantment that is problematic.
Ok, so the PCs just captured an really nice magic item, but one of the enchantments on it is something they really would prefer just wasn't there. Simple example might be a +5 Vorpal Unholy Sword captured by a Good aligned party. Well, especially if the party wizard has Craft Magical Arms and Armor, it ought to be possible to turn that into a +5 Vorpal Sword much much easier that it would be to take an ordinary masterwork sword and turn it into a +5 Vorpal Sword.
My current thinking is that you take the original market price of the item, subtract the market price of the item after whatever enchantments are being removed have been, and then treat the process as crafting a magic item with a market price equal to half of that. The requisite item creation feat or feats is necessary to perform this task, in addition to the standard GP and XP costs. In the case of a character with the "Retain Essence" class feature (possessed most notably by the Artificer), the XP that would be spent on the process is instead ADDED to the crafting pool of the character.
So in our example, the original +5 Unholy Vorpal Sword is worth 200,000 GP and the final result is a +5 Vorpal Sword worth 162,000 GP
200k - 162k = 38k
38k / 2 = 19k
So the person doing "Reverse Enchanting" (is that a good name, or can someone come up with a better one?) needs to spend 9,500 GP for materials, and 760 XPs to do that.
Maybe it shouldn't include the "divide by 2" step? (Might be better for game balance, but maybe not, and it certainly offends my sensibility that creating something should be harder than destroying it.).
Naturally the game effect here is to make item creation feats slightly more valuable and/or the game slightly more high wealth (but that can be dialed back to compensate of course, as long as it is applied equally, whether or not the party has the requisite feats (they can always hire it done)).
EDIT: Added in the bit about Artificers, based on discussion below. I am still wondering if they should still have to spend GPs to "Reverse Enchant".
and Another class that can break down items for XPs (and GPs) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11259552#post11259552)
Simple concept here, my question to my fellow brewers is how to balance the execution...
Illustrative dialogue:
Wizard: Well, I finished analyzing the enchantments on our just rewards from those demons we killed two days ago.
Paladin: Don't know why you even bothered with some of it, I told you it should be destroyed.
Wizard: Oh, I agree with your principles, you know that, but there are certain things your training in understanding the ways of magic didn't prepare you for. But we will get to that in a second.
Paladin: Say on then.
Wizard: Right, Ok, this rod here... the brass one with the little spikes? Yeah, we can melt that down in my lab together, and make sure none of the taint stays with the metal... which is rare, but possible.
Paladin: Out of curiosity, what does it do exactly?
Wizard: Well, consider the type of demon it came off of and then... actually, you know what? You will really sleep better NOT knowing... suffice to say that there is just NO appropriate use for such a thing...
Paladin: Ok, but what about that sword? None of us can even use it without our very souls being weakened as long as we wield it.
Wizard: Ah, now we come to the crux of the matter... it does have a property that renders it antithetical to our spirits, but it also has many simply useful powers, it is, in truth, a much more powerful weapon than any of us currently possess. The answer is quite simple when you think about it. What one can create with care, one can also destroy with care, just as an architect may remove only the part of a building that does not suit a new owner, so does the same skill that allows me to create the enchantments for your arrows that make then especially deadly either to devils or demons (but never both for the same arrow, since that would be a waste of magic), allow me to undo only that portion of the enchantment that is problematic.
Ok, so the PCs just captured an really nice magic item, but one of the enchantments on it is something they really would prefer just wasn't there. Simple example might be a +5 Vorpal Unholy Sword captured by a Good aligned party. Well, especially if the party wizard has Craft Magical Arms and Armor, it ought to be possible to turn that into a +5 Vorpal Sword much much easier that it would be to take an ordinary masterwork sword and turn it into a +5 Vorpal Sword.
My current thinking is that you take the original market price of the item, subtract the market price of the item after whatever enchantments are being removed have been, and then treat the process as crafting a magic item with a market price equal to half of that. The requisite item creation feat or feats is necessary to perform this task, in addition to the standard GP and XP costs. In the case of a character with the "Retain Essence" class feature (possessed most notably by the Artificer), the XP that would be spent on the process is instead ADDED to the crafting pool of the character.
So in our example, the original +5 Unholy Vorpal Sword is worth 200,000 GP and the final result is a +5 Vorpal Sword worth 162,000 GP
200k - 162k = 38k
38k / 2 = 19k
So the person doing "Reverse Enchanting" (is that a good name, or can someone come up with a better one?) needs to spend 9,500 GP for materials, and 760 XPs to do that.
Maybe it shouldn't include the "divide by 2" step? (Might be better for game balance, but maybe not, and it certainly offends my sensibility that creating something should be harder than destroying it.).
Naturally the game effect here is to make item creation feats slightly more valuable and/or the game slightly more high wealth (but that can be dialed back to compensate of course, as long as it is applied equally, whether or not the party has the requisite feats (they can always hire it done)).
EDIT: Added in the bit about Artificers, based on discussion below. I am still wondering if they should still have to spend GPs to "Reverse Enchant".