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Longcat
2010-01-07, 06:54 AM
Hi all,
I'm going to play in an upcoming SR4 game, and I've decided to play a tech specialist (focussing on hacking and rigging). I'm fairly familiar with the SR4 rules, but until now, I've mostly played Mages and Adepts, and the Matrix rules are kind of new to me. Right now, I'm still deciding between a Technomancer and a regular Hacker. From what I've seen, hackers rely mostly on Software, Implants and a pimped-out commlink, while technomancers utilize some kind of magic system. Also, hackers seem to scale primarily with money, while technomancers require loads of karma.

So, what are your experiences with those two archetypes? Which one's the better hacker, which one is the better rigger, and what concept do your prefer and why?

DMfromTheAbyss
2010-01-07, 06:59 AM
Hacker tends to be a bit better starting off, Technomancer is good in the long run though (as you get karma it gets better) though the biggest difference is one of flavor.

Basically you can get a good playable version of either, it's really just weither you prefer it to be mysticism or hardware that gets you there.

Though I'm not sure how well the Rigger will work off the technomancer, might be a little tough to squeeze in...

BobVosh
2010-01-07, 07:02 AM
You can buy a hacker with software alone. Someone on these forums posted it. I think it cost about 20-30 bonus points (200k in game) to get all 6 ratings. Then you can easily back it with rigger stats (usually they are the same stats).

Beyond that I find hardware works better than technomancing. However I do believe this is a personal opinion and they are actually fairly balanced. That said I like having pimped out eyes, broadcasting weather, radio, and my own fantasy land as I walk down the street.

Also as the rigger it is your duty to buy and pimp out an armored hovervan. Don't forget a nice couple of beds for the mage and you to be passed out in.

hiryuu
2010-01-07, 07:10 AM
Technomancers make the best riggers.

Seriously.

Sprites. Mother of hell, sprites. Those things are almost unbalanced. They're like agents. On kryptonite steroids. There's a reason sprites have to be in the same node as the technomancer who compiled them, otherwise the technomancer would be god. On the other hand, your registered sprites can move around for you. Once you got registered sprites, just re-register those things until you have damn near unlimited tasks; it'll make them a pain to decompile and you can loan out the tasks to other members of your team, letting your teammates carry a registered data-bombing sprite in each of their PANs. You can even make sprites pilot drones, creating real-world minions, as well.

I also used to worry about the karma cost until I focused on sprites and threading. The only real problem I've run into with technomancers is that you're always hotloaded, making it a pain if you get caught in a matrix combat. But then, it's SR, if you rolled initiative, your plan failed and you're probably all about to die.

Tehnar
2010-01-07, 07:22 AM
You might want to look into getting a Doc Wagon HTR ambulance for a ride. Get Chameleon coating and keep it in non Doc wagon colors (bonus points if you get pop out flashing lights) most of the time. When the **** hits the fan, and you need to get out of there pronto, switch on the Doc Wagon colors.

Why officer you don't want to stop a Doc Wagon ambulance carrying critical patients from that shootout over there.

Dimers
2010-01-07, 01:34 PM
Hacker starts out muuuuuch better off. Technomancers needs several good stats just for Matrix stuff (never mind meat-world ability) and have to spend BPs on each individual 'program'; the hacker's nuyen buy the same Matrix stats and programs for a small fraction of the price. Technomancers have three advantages of varying strength, though:

sprites are better than agents, and don't have an upper power limit other than the technomancer's hit points;
threading allows you right away to boost an ability higher than a hacker is capable of achieving;
and technomancers can eventually -- with a huge amount of karma -- exceed hackers' maximal capabilities.

To get to the point where a technomancer is even comparable to a rich hacker, though, would take years of play. And surviving years of play when your skills are marginal is difficult to pull off. If the campaign starts with more BP, a technomancer is worth considering, but with the standard 400, hackers blow 'em away.

Of course, this is all secondary to fun. If a technomancer is what you want to play and a hacker just seems dull, the choice is easy.

Longcat
2010-01-07, 03:11 PM
What about it in Karma-based generation? E.g, the one from Runner's Companion, assuming the following rules

750 Karma

Stats are <new value>x3, not x5


no upper limit on how much money can be purchased with Karma

NPCMook
2010-01-07, 04:51 PM
In the Long run the Technomancer still wins because of Submersion. The Hacker is just going to be retardedly awesome to begin with if you let them spend as much Karma as they can on Nuyen, each Karma equalling 2500 Nuyen.

Another thing that a Technomancer has over the Decker/Rigger is:

Multiprocessing Mind Over Machine More than Metahuman

Though Technically a Decker/Rigger can also take More than Metahuman

Dimers
2010-01-08, 11:02 AM
What about it in Karma-based generation? E.g, the one from Runner's Companion, assuming the following rules

750 Karma

Stats are <new value>x3, not x5


no upper limit on how much money can be purchased with Karma


I haven't seen the rules before and would need to write down a couple builds to be sure, but I'd say the advantage is mildly Technomancer there. TM can be considerably more effective than the normal generation allows, given the cheaper stats, and can certainly boost a few commonly-used programs beyond the hacker's capability. Whereas more money doesn't benefit the hacker, since programs are still maxed out at Rating 6.

Dimers
2010-01-08, 11:05 AM
The Hacker is just going to be retardedly awesome to begin with if you let them spend as much Karma as they can on Nuyen, each Karma equalling 2500 Nuyen.

Eh, it wouldn't be terrible as long as the book's recommendations are followed for maximum Ratings and for starting items' Availability. The hacker could gain more advantage in terms of bodily survivability and effectiveness, but more money wouldn't change his Matrix capabilities much at all.