Champion of Gwynharraf (3.5)

[AtwasAwamps]

I'm sure I spelled that wrong...

I'm starting out a new character for a friend's game. Starting at level seven. I was permitted the use of the Champion of Gwynharrah from BoED.

I am excited to be an angry raging holy person!

Just wondering if people had any tips on this particular class. Should I focus on my ability to scare people while raging and grab indomitable command and other intimidate optimizing feats? Or should I go business as usual and stomp on people's faces? Or both? Should I got straight Barb or dip fighter for bonus feats?

Thanks ahead of time for any advice.

[paddyfool]

I'm not sure, but kudos on the style. I rather think that Paladin-style fluff and abilities generally fit prestige classes better than they do the Paladin itself.

[dsmiles]

...angry raging holy person!

Awesome analogy.

Personally, not having played one (but having DMed for one), the intimidate boosting feats are not that great. Maybe you should focus on ragecasting? And I would probably dip fighter for the bonus feats, unless you're going "business as usual" for a barbarian, then you should probably focus on the rage-enhancing feats (extra rage, extend rage, etc.).

EDIT: Also think about the nimbus of light feat chain, and sanctify martial strike if you're looking for more interesting stuff.

In case you can't tell, I don't go in for optimizing for the one-hit-kills, I do stuff and take feats based on the story value for my character.

[AtwasAwamps]

Awesome analogy.

Personally, not having played one (but having DMed for one), the intimidate boosting feats are not that great. Maybe you should focus on ragecasting? And I would probably dip fighter for the bonus feats, unless you're going "business as usual" for a barbarian, then you should probably focus on the rage-enhancing feats (extra rage, extend rage, etc.).

Champions have a very limited spell list when it comes to casting and are automatically able to cast while raging at level 2 in the class.

The reason I'm looking at intimidate boosting feats is because CoG gets a bunch of natural ways to take advantage of intimidate and require 9 ranks of it to enter, which makes me feel that it's probably mean to be a scary holy guy.

I will talk to my DM about a two level fighter dip, but I don't like delaying my rage progression...hrmm...


EDIT: Nimbus of light? Whazzat?

[dsmiles]

Another feat in the BOED. I don't have books here at my office, so I'll have to leave it at this:

Nimbus of Light (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Nimbus_of_Light,BE)

There are a couple of feats that have this as a prereq, IIRC.

[AtwasAwamps]

That will quickly earn me the nickname "Light Bright" in my group...

[dsmiles]

Holy Radiance and Stigmata are the other feats I was thinking of. Stigmata (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Stigmata)'s not so great, but Holy Radiance (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Holy_Radiance) is pretty good.
Quell the Profane (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Quell_The_Profane) is also cool.

You should check this site (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml) out for descriptions of exalted feats.

[quiet1mi]

a Charisma Foucused Barbarian is not unusual...

Grab the following Feats to really make it work...

Imperious Command: If you demoralize someone they cower followed by shaken... awesome...

Instantaneous Rage: Allows you to Rage as an immediate action... IE: In response to an attack.
Intimidating Rage: When You rage you, you can demoralize a single foe as a free action...

Grabbing the skill trick, Never out numbered allows you to intimidate everyone with one action.

While you will have less raw damage then a Strength barbarian, you have more options...

[dyslexicfaser]

a Charisma Foucused Barbarian is not unusual...

Grab the following Feats to really make it work...

Imperious Command: If you demoralize someone they cower followed by shaken... awesome...

Instantaneous Rage: Allows you to Rage as an immediate action... IE: In response to an attack.
Intimidating Rage: When You rage you, you can demoralize a single foe as a free action...

Grabbing the skill trick, Never out numbered allows you to intimidate everyone with one action.

While you will have less raw damage then a Strength barbarian, you have more options...
That's the way. Once you hit Champion level 4, you can fear-stack people into a panicked/cowering state pretty quickly.

[AtwasAwamps]

Very cool! That's what I was looking for.

What would you do with a stat spread like this, then:

16
16
14
14
13
11

I was going to go:

Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Wis: 13
Int: 11
Cha: 14

[dyslexicfaser]

That's fine, though if you're going with intimidate/fear, you may want to switch your Cha and Con. I'd need to re-read the feats to be sure, but I seem to remember that a high charisma is beneficial for your fear DCs.

[AtwasAwamps]

That's fine, though if you're going with intimidate/fear, you may want to switch your Cha and Con. I'd need to re-read the feats to be sure, but I seem to remember that a high charisma is beneficial for your fear DCs.

It is, but considering the fact that I'll be in close combat with light armor, I'm reluctant not to make my highest stats Str and Con. The most I'd get from switching Cha to 16 is another +1 to my DCs, which I think I can afford to lose in favor of a continuous growing health bonus.

[Akal Saris]

Nah, keep that stat spread as it is. +1 to the DC for intimidate isn't worth losing the HPs from 16 Con or the str att/bonus stuff.

Lots of foes are going to ignore intimidation focus (anything nonintelligent such as oozes, plants, and constructs, or anything immune to fear, such as undead, most devils and demons, or anything really powerful that might make its opposed modified level check).

By the way, from Drow of the Underdark try to grab the Fearsome armor enchantment: 5K gold for making all intimidate checks move actions instead of standard.

[AtwasAwamps]

Nah, keep that stat spread as it is. +1 to the DC for intimidate isn't worth losing the HPs from 16 Con or the str att/bonus stuff.

Lots of foes are going to ignore intimidation focus (anything nonintelligent such as oozes, plants, and constructs, or anything immune to fear, such as undead, most devils and demons, or anything really powerful that might make its opposed modified level check).

By the way, from Drow of the Underdark try to grab the Fearsome armor enchantment: 5K gold for making all intimidate checks move actions instead of standard.


That's why I rage and have a greatsword! If they don't scared of me, they'll get slashed up!

So, currently, the feats I'm considering for a level 7 build:

Level 1: Knight of the Stars, Righteous Wrath
Level 3: Intimidating Rage
Level 6: Imperious Command

OTHER POSSIBILITIES

Rather than go Barb 6/Champion X, go Barb 4/Fighter 2/Champ X
Fighter Bonus Feats: Power Attack, Leap Attack?

[Optimystik]

That's the way. Once you hit Champion level 4, you can fear-stack people into a panicked/cowering state pretty quickly.

Panicked is annoying, because then you have to chase people down. :smallannoyed:

Also Nimbus of Light doesn't seem worth a feat to me, unless you just want to go around glowing everywhere. (And Champions get Daylight anyway.) By the time you can get Holy Radiance the damage will barely be worth it. Stigmata might actually combo fairly well with a holy barbarian, given the huge amounts of CON they usually get - giving you a pseudo-lay on hands + remove disease. But I think there are better exalted feats (or feats in general) that you can take than the Nimbus line.

[Thurbane]

It seems to fill a similar role to the Hellreaver PrC in FC2. How do they compare?

[arguskos]

It seems to fill a similar role to the Hellreaver PrC in FC2. How do they compare?
I can speak as to how hardcore awesome Hellreaver is. A Knight/Hellreaver is like the best thing ever, no lie. Hellreaver is seriously an amazing PrC, and if you qualify and would benefit, you should take it.

The power to use your swift action to do something useful in combat is not easily dismissed, nor is the fact that holy fury resets every encounter, has good abilities, including a swift action healing ability. Give Hellreaver to the tank with some way to draw fire, and it's just amazing.

[Thurbane]

Cool. I'm thinking of suggesting to a player in my upcoming EtCR game as a PrC for his Paladin.

[arguskos]

Paladin-->Hellreaver is great stuff. Entry at five is good. I recommend Paladin 4/Barbarian 1 (for pounce)/Hellreaver 10/whatever +5.

Champion of Gwynharwyf is alright, mostly cause you get casting you can use in rage (though it's not amazing) and you get the amazing Fearsome Fury ability. I like it for that alone! I can see going Barb 1/Paladin 4/Fighter 1/Champion 4/Ordained Champion 5/whatever you want 5, that'd be pretty good I think.

[AtwasAwamps]

I'm probably sticking with a straight barbarian entry...the group I play with is highly unoptimized and I know that when I start bumming around grabbing levels purely for power (even though as a writer, I've been known to be able to fluff any and everything to the point where it works)...they're going to get irritated. Hell, they're a little scared by my idea here, anyways...

[arguskos]

I'm probably sticking with a straight barbarian entry...the group I play with is highly unoptimized and I know that when I start bumming around grabbing levels purely for power (even though as a writer, I've been known to be able to fluff any and everything to the point where it works)...they're going to get irritated. Hell, they're a little scared by my idea here, anyways...
I dunno, Barbarian/Paladin of Freedom is pretty reasonable I'd think. Maybe adding Fighter was a bit much, but Barb/Pally is a fine entry, thematically appropriate, and doesn't really add much to the power side of things.

[AtwasAwamps]

I dunno, Barbarian/Paladin of Freedom is pretty reasonable I'd think. Maybe adding Fighter was a bit much, but Barb/Pally is a fine entry, thematically appropriate, and doesn't really add much to the power side of things.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I don't want to push them too far just yet. I am actually a "new-ish" player who has the ability to devour and absorb large amounts of information, which means I have tons of playable character concepts in my brain, and I just don't wanna make them nervous :)

[arguskos]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I don't want to push them too far just yet. I am actually a "new-ish" player who has the ability to devour and absorb large amounts of information, which means I have tons of playable character concepts in my brain, and I just don't wanna make them nervous :)
Hah, I don't think anyone will mind if you say "hey, I'm a Paladin of BREAKING FACES!" I think it sounds pretty fun, actually. :smallamused: