Did Simon die? (Gurren Lagann Spoilers)

[golentan]

So, Gurren Lagann. We all know that Kamina was killed, and then got up and avenged himself.

What I'm wondering is whether Simon did him one better. I think it's kind of implied.

The points:

1)The multidimensional labyrinth cannot be escaped by conscious beings.

2)Simon had that scene where he talked to kamina, who was explicitly called the one and only real kamina. All of the other dead dai gurren folks showed up in the same glowey place.

3)Before seeing the glowey place with all the dead people, Simon and Yoko (and thus possibly everyone) went through that dark wasteland place.

4)Simon then does his funky drill thing and the whole world shapes itself around him, then pull the entirety of team Dai-Gurren's equipment out of thin air in the Anti spiral's dimension.

5)And we know in that dimension technically dead folks could have bodies (see Lordgenome).

6)The anti spiral was fairly rational, and I see no reason why, having trapped team dai-gurren it would feel the need to keep their bodies lying around when without spiral power it would be the work of moments to destroy everything, as a "just in case" thing.

7)Darry seemed absolutely convinced Simon could bring people back from the dead, on no other evidence.

8)Point 4 gives extra meaning to his final shout "Mine is the Drill that Creates the heavens."

9)Points 7 and 8 explain why Yoko needs to remind Darry that Simon isn't god.

So, did Simon die and come back to avenge himself, bringing along half the named cast with him? Does that imply that even in vs. arguments where a hypothetical opponent could kill the entirety of team Dai-gurren that it's actually irrelevant to who would win? Am I full of hot air.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

First off, I was never entirely sure about how the illusion dimension worked.

You're saying that the Anti-Spiral King locked them into an illusion world, killed them, then after that Simon resurrected them?

They were in the illusion world while also dead? Their spirits were in the illusion world?

The limits of Spiral Power seem pretty vague to me, or maybe I just missed it.

[Tengu_temp]

Nothing in the story indicates Simon, or any other Gurren-Dan member who wasn't already dead, died because of the illusion world.

[Haven]

Huh. This actually makes a lot of sense, I like it. It's not necessary to the story, no, but it does add an interesting new dimension.

[Starfols]

I would think not, as TTGL was successful enough to warrant a sequel, and the ending is ambiguous to allow it.

BTW, some of this should be in spoilers.

[golentan]

First off, I was never entirely sure about how the illusion dimension worked.

You're saying that the Anti-Spiral King locked them into an illusion world, killed them, then after that Simon resurrected them?

They were in the illusion world while also dead? Their spirits were in the illusion world?

The limits of Spiral Power seem pretty vague to me, or maybe I just missed it.

I'm saying that it makes sense if they got out of illusion world by dying, OR that anti-spiral king may have killed them while they were of in lala land.

It's ambiguous, but I saw enough support for the idea that I figured I'd ask if it seemed a valid interpretation.

I figured it's been a couple years, but I'll put spoiler tags on it, okay?

[Kris Strife]

I don't think anti spiral king had a chance, he was too busy gloating at Lord Genome and then got distracted by Buta (or however you spell the mole pig's name) and his transformation.

[golentan]

I don't think anti spiral king had a chance, he was too busy gloating at Lord Genome and then got distracted by Buta (or however you spell the mole pig's name) and his transformation.

And then he trapped Boota and we have a cut to the dream world for half the episode. We have no idea what happened. And I'm pretty sure the face monsters could deal with the Choginga Gurren Lagann in seconds without the spiral shield and other gear that only works when Simon and the others will it to.

Edit: But it's not necessary for ASK to have killed them in this scenario, only that they die before escaping. That's the hypothetical.

[Kris Strife]

And then he trapped Boota and we have a cut to the dream world for half the episode. We have no idea what happened. And I'm pretty sure the face monsters could deal with the Choginga Gurren Lagann in seconds without the spiral shield and other gear that only works when Simon and the others will it to.

Edit: But it's not necessary for ASK to have killed them in this scenario, only that they die before escaping. That's the hypothetical.

I figured the dreamworld stuff was more of a 'Back at the ranch,' and shows what was happening while Anti-Spiral King was gloating.

Based on his apparent hesitancy to actually kill off the Spiral life forms, I think he said doing so would actually just make Spiral power stronger over all, I don't think he intended to kill them.

[golentan]

I figured the dreamworld stuff was more of a 'Back at the ranch,' and shows what was happening while Anti-Spiral King was gloating.

Based on his apparent hesitancy to actually kill off the Spiral life forms, I think he said doing so would actually just make Spiral power stronger over all, I don't think he intended to kill them.

He said killing off all spiral life would probably destroy the universe the same as letting them grow unchecked. Given the lengths he was willing to go to to protect it I think that explains leaving oppressed spiral folks. It doesn't explain why he wouldn't kill spiral warriors in a nice, neat baker's dozen as he apparently had by the millions. Especially given that they should (if left untended) dehydrate and die within days.

All of which is an irrelevant side note to the question at hand.

[Prime32]

8)Point 4 gives extra meaning to his final shout "Mine is the Drill that Creates the heavens."That was only in the dub. The original still says "pierce".


I don't think anti spiral king had a chance, he was too busy gloating at Lord Genome and then got distracted by Buta (or however you spell the mole pig's name) and his transformation.Again, the Anti-Spiral was a lot calmer in the original version. He wasn't so much gloating as saying hello to an old friend, wishing they could have met under better circumstances (the reason the last Spirals were defeated was because Lordgenome listened to the Anti-Spiral and destroyed his army (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOBG3CCew7Q)).

Another note: in the original, Lordgenome tells Viral "I didn't give you that body to defeat the humans", while in the dub he says "I didn't give you that body to defeat the humans". Subtle difference, major implications.


No, I don't think Simon brought everyone back from the dead, as that would make the ending with Nia nonsensical.

[golentan]

That was only in the dub. The original still says "pierce".

Ah. I didn't realize (I wasn't able to find the Sub for the last few episodes).


No, I don't think Simon brought everyone back from the dead, as that would make the ending with Nia nonsensical.

Not necessarily. We know Simon vowed to defeat the spiral nemesis. If he brought people back simply through massive spiral power, it would be a good enough reason not to do it. And if he smashed his way out of death and the others just tagged along, it would make a certain amount of sense that he couldn't pull as well as he pushed.

[Xuincherguixe]

It's an interesting idea.

It holds a lot of the characteristics of coming back from the dead. It's something to think about.