Final levels of characters before the end?

[Ancalagon]

We know the current (at least sufficiently approximate) levels of characters in the comic. But we also know that the pro- and antagonists do gain xp and that they do progress.

So what's going to be the final levels right before the show is over?

Will the Order be level 16ish to 18 near the end? Will someone of the protagonists even hit epic (Haley, maybe)?
Will Redcloak hit level 20?
Will Xykon hit level 30 or gain even more power?

And if the characters actually come near 20, what will they do with that power (assumed they survive the story). Can anyone imagine what a level-20-Elan or, a kid's worst nightmare, a level-20-Belkar might do?

[factotum]

How long is a piece of string? We have absolutely no way to answer this question because we have no idea what's going to happen between now and the end of the strip!

[Ancalagon]

How long is a piece of string? We have absolutely no way to answer this question because we have no idea what's going to happen between now and the end of the strip!

I think you just provided the possibly most boring answer to the presented question. ;)

If the quoted stuff above WAS in *any* way relevant on this forum you could reduce the daily postings by at least 50%.

Apart from that: You are wrong!
We know we are approximatly over 50% of the story, maybe even more than 60% and we DO know that the main-party gained roughly six levels since comic #1.

Also, you are even more wrong, as the second block questions in my posting does not require ANY data gained from the comic at all.

[Vemynal]

Personally I think that the character's will be in the 15 to 20 range level wise with no character going above 19. V will have access to 9th level spells to be certain, so will durkon

I'm betting that Xykon is already level 30, in fact i think someone crunched the #'s awhile back to figure out what level someone would have to be to make a item that gave fire immunity and it was along the line of level 36 or so

Also: interesting side note: Xykon is immune now to the 3 most prevalent magical damages- cold, lightning and fire. Meaning only force effects and acid/poison affects will damage him.

The character thats my avatar had the same set up: complete anti-caster spellsword style character (5 duskblade/10 homebrew dragon disciple/ lich template @ 15) found on the forums here actually) and the only things I had to worry about were force or acid spells that cause a fortitude save (since lich = no con) which there was only 1 monster that our DM could find that could change the damage types of its spells to another type causing a fort save *or* Archmages

those would appear to be the only thigns he needs to worry about as far as magic goes so i don't know how much V will end up doing

[Spiky]

Also: interesting side note: Xykon is immune now to the 3 most prevalent magical damages- cold, lightning and fire. Meaning only force effects and acid/poison affects will damage him.


You forgot a good punch to the skull (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0114.html), apparently devastating.

[Eloel]

You forgot a good punch to the skull (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0114.html), apparently devastating.

That only means Roy has a magic item or a feat that gives him Vorpal unarmed attacks.

[Kobold-Bard]

I can see :roy: being Epic for the final battle. Being the party leader and everything. He'll probably have unlocked his Gestalt Wizard levels as well by then.

:vaarsuvius: and :durkon: will have 9th Level spells, but won't be Epic (too much hassle giving them Epic Spells). Edit: Actually :durkon: may be Epic, but he'll take Ignore Material Components and turn into some kind of diamondless ressurectomatic.

:haley: and :elan: will enter some weird couples only PrC that lets them share their abilities and bounce around like a pair of raier wielding, sneak attacking ninjas.

:belkar: will unleash Mr. Scruffy's feral side and ride into battle like a tiny psychotic warlord.

So it is written, so it shall be.

[Le Piaf]

Also: interesting side note: Xykon is immune now to the 3 most prevalent magical damages- cold, lightning and fire. Meaning only force effects and acid/poison affects will damage him.

but, is he immune to... SONIC? :biggrin:

[hamishspence]

Undead are immune to poison as well. Except maybe the magical poisons in BoVD and BoED.

"Positoxins" in Libris Mortis, work on them though.

[derfenrirwolv]

Xykon's pushing 30. If the order isn't level 21 they dont have a prayer outside of deux ex machina or being sidekicks to an epic level spellcaster

[Kobold-Bard]

Xykon's pushing 30. If the order isn't level 21 they dont have a prayer outside of deux ex machina or being sidekicks to an epic level spellcaster

Remember that this is a story not an actual game, Rich doesn't keep character sheets for the Order. Deus ex machina might be a bit strong, but if the Oots win by story rather than hard stats I'll accept it and like it.

[derfenrirwolv]

Remember that this is a story not an actual game, Rich doesn't keep character sheets for the Order. Deus ex machina might be a bit strong, but if the Oots win by story rather than hard stats I'll accept it and like it.

No, but he does keep the game mechanics in mind, and does keep a more or less rough idea of their power levels.

[Zevox]

Xykon's pushing 30.
How is level 26, the minimum level for him based on the data we have now and the assumption that he doesn't have certain non-core feats, "pushing 30?" :smallconfused:

Zevox

[ocdscale]

Personally I think that the character's will be in the 15 to 20 range level wise with no character going above 19.

This made me laugh.


Xykon's pushing 30. If the order isn't level 21 they dont have a prayer outside of deux ex machina or being sidekicks to an epic level spellcaster

Deus ex machina doesn't mean what you think it means. Was it a deus ex machina when Roy first defeated Xykon?

[Bavarian itP]

Was it a deus ex machina when Roy first defeated Xykon?

I'm gonna be ninja'ed with this, but


I had allowed Roy to defeat Xykon waaaaaay back in the Dungeon of Durokan through what amounted to a cheap deus ex machina

[Vemynal]

but, is he immune to... SONIC? :biggrin:

meant sonic not force, now i feel silly XD

though force as well would work on him >.>

[Fearabbit]

Erm, I like to think of OotS - the comic - as not ending after they defeat Xykon. :smalleek:

So my notion is that they'll roughly keep their current level until they finally defeat Xykon, and then just move on.
After all, Rich said he'd like to keep them at a level where he can still put dozens of low-level enemies against them and they'd still have to flee.

[Zevox]

Erm, I like to think of OotS - the comic - as not ending after they defeat Xykon. :smalleek:
Considering that it's Xykon and Redcloak's plans that drive the main plot of the comic, and Xykon is easily the highest-level recurring threat they face, and Rich has stated flat-out that there is a definite endpoint to the OotS story, that would seem an unlikely hope you have there.


After all, Rich said he'd like to keep them at a level where he can still put dozens of low-level enemies against them and they'd still have to flee.
You're thinking of the FAQ on the site? You might want to keep in mind that that thing has been outdated for years. The Order is already at the point where a batch of low-level enemies is no real threat to them.

Zevox

[Kish]

Erm, I like to think of OotS - the comic - as not ending after they defeat Xykon. :smalleek:
I think you're in for disappointment. It's not a gag-a-day webcomic; it's a story with a plot, a villain, and a planned end.

[Sewblon]

You forgot a good punch to the skull (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0114.html), apparently devastating. Roy needed a trap that an epic wizard had set to do that.

[Asta Kask]

:belkar: will unleash Mr. Scruffy's feral side and ride into battle like a tiny psychotic warlord.

:belkar: will be pushing up daisies.

[Lissou]

I hope the comic doesn't end the second Xykon is defeated, but I can't see it lasting a long time after that. Unless Redcloak survives and keeps the plan going with someone else, but... I'd find it more likely that Redcloak would die first of the two (or be otherwise removed as a threat).

The way I see it, Xykon will be defeated during the last book, but not in the very last strip. There needs to be room for a conclusion, an epilogue, something like that. A hint as to what the characters are going to do next, then the end.

Anyways, they wouldn't remain the Order of the Stick after the quest is over, I don't think. That's what linking them all together after all.

[Asta Kask]

How long is a piece of string?

12 inches.

[Kobold-Bard]

:belkar: will be pushing up daisies.

My personal theory is that he'll replace his lungs with a contraption that somehow simultaneously survive without air ("he'll draw his last breath") and fire multiple shurikens at high speed at incoming enemies But that is a debate for another thread (and the thousands of others like it.)


I hope the comic doesn't end the second Xykon is defeated, but I can't see it lasting a long time after that. Unless Redcloak survives and keeps the plan going with someone else, but... I'd find it more likely that Redcloak would die first of the two (or be otherwise removed as a threat).

The way I see it, Xykon will be defeated during the last book, but not in the very last strip. There needs to be room for a conclusion, an epilogue, something like that. A hint as to what the characters are going to do next, then the end.

Anyways, they wouldn't remain the Order of the Stick after the quest is over, I don't think. That's what linking them all together after all.

Obviously they won't kill Xykon then cut to black. It'll be the Return of the Kings again. Everyone will get a strip dedicated to them (maybe on one gigantic page so it doesn't drag on as much as LotR), then there'll be an ending splash page.

[martinkou]

Totally random outlying bets:

Xykon will end up with a divine rank or two by somehow killing the Dark One and devouring his divine essence.

OOtS will go to level 30, or more.

The Snarl will become lawful good and join the pantheon.

We'll see the OOtS and Xykon go to the Astral Plane and probably Sigil.

Belkar's alignment shifts to Chaotic Good, and becomes Vaarsuvius's new romance.

Xykon won't die, but will end up working under and being abused daily by a greater evil god like Tiamat.

If any of my outlying bets actually hit, run for your lives.

[Mystic Muse]

The Snarl will become lawful good and join the pantheon.


this one might actually happen.:smalltongue:

[Kobold-Bard]

...We'll see the OOtS and Xykon go to the Astral Plane and probably Sigil....

Astral Plane means no aging. Meaning as long as they have some way of consistently getting the Spellcasters rested, this might actually work.

Endless Astral Trench Warfare FTW!!

[TheBlackShadow]

By the end of the comic, I expect all of the characters to be Epic to some degree, even if its only low-Epic, like Lv. 20 or something. :roy: at least will have to be Epic, if we're going to have an, erm, epic one-on-one showdown with Xykon at the end, while the rest of the Order do, err, other things, in some kind of climatic battle at Kraagor's Gate.

[Asta Kask]

By the end of the comic, I expect all of the characters to be Epic to some degree, even if its only low-Epic, like Lv. 20 or something. :roy: at least will have to be Epic, if we're going to have an, erm, epic one-on-one showdown with Xykon at the end, while the rest of the Order do, err, other things, in some kind of climatic battle at Kraagor's Gate.

I don't think we'll see any epic one-on-one showdown with Xykon in the end. Rather, I expect Xykon to be alone and abandoned by his allies. One of the bearing themes of the comic is that going it alone doesn't work. Look at Roy going down in flames. Look at the Darth V storyline.

However, I agree that the characters will be epic by the end of the storyline, probably around mid-twenties.

[TheBlackShadow]

I don't think we'll see any epic one-on-one showdown with Xykon in the end. Rather, I expect Xykon to be alone and abandoned by his allies. One of the bearing themes of the comic is that going it alone doesn't work. Look at Roy going down in flames. Look at the Darth V storyline.

However, I agree that the characters will be epic by the end of the storyline, probably around mid-twenties.

You are correct about "team effort" as a prevalent theme in the comic, and of course I agree with you. I still think that Roy will go it alone against Xykon, but lets not forget that Xykon, in and of himself, is not the whole issue. There's still Redcloak and the International Pan-Goblin Emancipation League, the Linear Guild, the IFCC, the MitD, Tsukiko, and the unknown quantity of the Snarl, and obviously I don't expect Roy to go it alone against all of them. Its still a team effort, but everyone has their part to play, and I think Xykon is Roy's area of the problem to deal with.

[Big Hungry Joe]

Xykon has escaped (further) death a number of times by deus ex machina as well (just a few examples: Miko's perfectly timed brainfart when Soon had him down; the miraculous fact that he and Redcloak happened to put random anti-caster glyphs AND happened be in that exact room when Darth V randomly teleported in, spoiling his Time Stop surprise round, the hobgoblin 3x critical hit on the silver dragon; even the incredibly improbable fact that Redcloak had all the ingredients, skills, time, and total lack of jailer supervision to turn him into a lich in the first place, rather than have him die of old age as a powerless old crank). In fact, it seems like he benefits from it more than anybody. So if the Order were to kill him through some unlikely sequence of events, he's probably due anyway. However, victory for the Order may merely amount to denying the bad guys the use of any of the gates. If anyone is going to kill Xykon -- a separate issue -- I think it'll be MiTD. And probably in a few short rounds when he Hulks out over something (ideally involving sweet, sweet O-Chul). When I think of that contest, all I think of is a shapechanged dragonform V stepping on Roy's bone golem. Using the Oracle's "caused the death of" logic, Roy's oath would presumably be fulfilled even if someone else actually lands the killing blow on Xykon anyway.

[Kobold-Bard]

...If anyone is going to kill Xykon -- a separate issue -- I think it'll be MiTD. And probably in a few short rounds when he Hulks out over something (ideally involving sweet, sweet O-Chul)...

I know the MitD isn't the Tarrasque. But now I have an image of O-Chul riding the Tarrasque (with the MitD's eyes) into battle. Thanks :smallbiggrin:

[Custos Sophiae]

Xykon's soul is destroyed - letting him evade the fires below, in the worst possible way.

The order all end up in the low to mid 20s. Roy remains a straight fighter. V takes some prestige class to broaden their talents, having learnt from their dark spell. Elan and Haley also take unoptimised prestige classes, and Elan may even multiclass

V and Durkon don't have to learn epic spell casting, but probably will. If so, they'll probably only have time to develop a single spell. Epic explosive runes would be appropriate for V, while Durkon could end up willingly dying from backlash damage.

[grautry]

With the growing number of interested parties(like, oh IFCC), I too think that the Order is going to be low-epic by the end of the comic in order to deal with the threats without relying on epic allies or deus ex machinas to do their job for them.

I'm predicting Archmage for V, that one seems pretty obvious. If V picks up Epic Spellcasting then I sooooooo see him learning Superb Dispelling as his first epic spell.

Remember Elan's line? "But I thought PrCs were for munchkins or maybe clerics." Foreshadowing of Stormy Servant of Thor perhaps? :smallbiggrin: Or maybe Durkon will finally get some character development that will result in him getting an unexpected PrC.

Elan? He seems to have matured at least a little bit during the comic and there were some references(maybe foreshadowing too) to V teaching him arcane magic. Maybe he'll pick up something like Sublime Chord or a homebrewed variant of it?

Roy? Straight Epic Fighter. He's too proud to do anything else. Haley seems kinda obvious too, straight Rogue.

Belkster, if he survives, will probably continue with Ranger/Barbarian. I don't see him getting any other class.

[Kobold-Bard]

Belkster, if he survives, will probably continue with Ranger/Barbarian. I don't see him getting any other class.

I'd see Frenzied Beserker being a good class for him. Better combat benefits, plus a plausible excuse to go on a rampage and butcher his team-mates every time he stubs his toe (which must be a lot considering he is barefoot).

[martinkou]

I'd see Frenzied Beserker being a good class for him. Better combat benefits, plus a plausible excuse to go on a rampage and butcher his team-mates every time he stubs his toe (which must be a lot considering he is barefoot).

The Oracle said Belkar would stop breathing within a year, I guess he'll become some kind of intelligent undead after that. Death Knight?

[Kobold-Bard]

The Oracle said Belkar would stop breathing within a year, I guess he'll become some kind of intelligent undead after that. Death Knight?

:belkar:: LET THE REAPING BEGIN!!

[Asta Kask]

:belkar:: LET THE REAPING BEGIN!!

'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

[megabyter5]

I don't like it any more than the next fan, but we know for certain by now that Belkar will NOT be in the OotS by the end of the comic. Yes, there is probably hope for a few non-plot-crucial gags involving Belkar in the Abyss, but beyond that, he is done for. Hope all you want, but you need to accept the facts sooner or later.

[i6uuaq]

Totally random outlying bets:

Xykon will end up with a divine rank or two by somehow killing the Dark One and devouring his divine essence.

OOtS will go to level 30, or more.

The Snarl will become lawful good and join the pantheon.

We'll see the OOtS and Xykon go to the Astral Plane and probably Sigil.

Belkar's alignment shifts to Chaotic Good, and becomes Vaarsuvius's new romance.

Xykon won't die, but will end up working under and being abused daily by a greater evil god like Tiamat.

If any of my outlying bets actually hit, run for your lives.

Would you say these predictions had, approximately, a one-in-a-million
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html) chance of coming true? :smallbiggrin:

[Kobold-Bard]

I don't like it any more than the next fan, but we know for certain by now that Belkar will NOT be in the OotS by the end of the comic. Yes, there is probably hope for a few non-plot-crucial gags involving Belkar in the Abyss, but beyond that, he is done for. Hope all you want, but you need to accept the facts sooner or later.

Never!!! I'll watch these forums burnbefore Belkar dies permanently!!!!! :smalltongue:

Although Belkar in the Abyss does give him a good reason to stay in the comic by becoming involved in the IFCC storyline.

OOH OOH OOH!!! That's how he'll participate in the final battle. He'll follow them through a portal, and obviously won't be breathing, coz he's dead.

I am a freaking genius :smallcool:

[Lerch]

I haven't been following the forums religiously....but has the thought of Belkar becoming a golem been tossed out?

They don't breathe. (unless it's a iron golem and then it's poisonous gas)

Just a wild thought....

[Shale]

He's going to die. He will stop breathing because he will be dead. D-E-D dead.

Anyway, at least V and Durkon are good bets to reach epic levels, because somebody has to re-Gate those rifts. Unless they end up eliminating the need for Gates altogether, which is possible.

[Kelvin360]

and we DO know that the main-party gained roughly six levels since comic #1.



If the earlier conversation where who-knows-who stated that the party started out at lvl 12 or such, and that 6 levels since would place them at 18 already....

Why the hell isn't Vaarsuvius using meteor swarm?!?!?

And i can totally see Belkar going undead after making a deal with the IFCC.....or perhaps Hearta? We need to send the nerds to find an undead subtype that rages, dual-wields daggers, and is halfling-sized...

and ROFLMAO at this (new lines are comments by me):
Quote:
Originally Posted by martinkou
Totally random outlying bets:

Xykon will end up with a divine rank or two by somehow killing the Dark One and devouring his divine essence. Redcloak would go into conniptions or die, lol.

OOtS will go to level 30, or more. Holy crap, 15d6 sneaks for Haley and Epic spell: Ruin for V? O_O

The Snarl will become lawful good and join the pantheon. Damn thats awesome.

We'll see the OOtS and Xykon go to the Astral Plane and probably Sigil. meh, kind of tame. Not the least because i have no idea what in the world Sigil is.....

Belkar's alignment shifts to Chaotic Good, and becomes Vaarsuvius's new romance. HELL YEAH!

Xykon won't die, but will end up working under and being abused daily by a greater evil god like Tiamat. Even more awesome, commupance! Maybe the IFCC's trade if he gets pwned?

If any of my outlying bets actually hit, run for your lives. *laughing so hard at this I cant breath*

[Mystic Muse]

you know, I think I know of one possible way for Belkar to live.

If he becomes an ACTUAL sexy shoeless god of war.:smallbiggrin:

[Kish]

I haven't been following the forums religiously....but has the thought of Belkar becoming a golem been tossed out?

They don't breathe. (unless it's a iron golem and then it's poisonous gas)

Just a wild thought....
Golems are in the world.

Why would someone whom no one in the world where he exists likes become a god?

[Mystic Muse]

well considering all the people who clearly worship him it's not impossible that he'd become a god

[Kish]

All the posters on this forum, you mean? Because, again, Belkar is roundly despised in the world where he exists.

Never!!! I'll watch these forums burnbefore Belkar dies permanently!!!!! :smalltongue:
Ten gold says Belkar's permanent death precedes the incineration of the forums.

[Mystic Muse]

yes. All the posters on the forum.

[derfenrirwolv]

How is level 26, the minimum level for him based on the data we have now and the assumption that he doesn't have certain non-core feats, "pushing 30?" :smallconfused:
Zevox

Well, even taken into account an alternate class ability or DM fiat that lets sorcerers cast in a grapple, xykons MINIMUM level is 26. That is, the abilities we have seen him use during his limited screentime neccesitate him being 26. It is very likely that he has other abilities that we haven't seen, making his actual level higher.

[derfenrirwolv]

If he becomes an ACTUAL sexy shoeless god of war

The problem with that is he can eat birthday cake as a god. (Thor regularly imbibes oceans of beer)

[Zigg]

What about :redcloak:,:nale:,:mitd:,:sabine:,or :thog:

[Kish]

What about :redcloak:,:nale:,:mitd:,:sabine:,or :thog:
0, 0, still epic hopefully, 0, and 0. You don't have any levels when you're dead.

[Kareasint]

The problem with that is he can eat birthday cake as a god. (Thor regularly imbibes oceans of beer)

That actually is a good question also. When is Belkar's Birthday? The Oracle mentions that he should savor his next birthday cake (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html).

Since there are likely still several fights to go through (and a lot of roleplaying), the OOTS will likely be epic level before the end of the comic. Level gain is a lot faster under later additions of AD&D.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm hoping Redcloak actually lives to repent but I bet a few board members hopes he dies a horribly painful death.

[Gift Jeraff]

I'm personally hoping Redcloak dies but in a redeeming manner (obligatory TV Tropes Redemption Equals Death link etc. etc.) and Jirix (after several more deaths as a running gag) gets to live on and lead the idea that the monster races can build their people up without bringing other people down.
Also, Thog and maybe Qarr are the only recurring villains so far I can see living (and not imprisoned) in the end, but not exactly redeemed or anything. (Not counting the MitD or demon roaches as villains.)

[TheBlackShadow]

What about :redcloak:,:nale:,:mitd:,:sabine:,or :thog:

:redcloak: Will reach Epic level. After one of the Gates is unsealed, Xykon goes mad(der) with power, and Redcloak reluctantly allies with Hinjo in the middle of a fight. Might survive and become a great leader for the Pan-Goblinoid International Emancipation League helping to reconcile them with the other races (my preference), or he dies in some Redemption Equals Death manner, but goes to the Lawful Good afterlife.

:nale: Will reach Epic level, but whatever he is he'll be the same level as Elan. Learns that Sabine has been manipulating him and promptly stabs her in the back. Probably dies, either because of Elan, Sabine, or the IFCC.

:mitd: Might already BE Epic level, but even if he isn't his base strength seems so great it doesn't matter anyway. Will almost certainly turn on Xykon at some point thanks to O-Chul. Will probably live and have a happy ending, but I wouldn't entirely rule out his death against Xykon or the Snarl, or something.

:sabine: May or may not reach Epic level. Will most likely die, either at the hands of Haley, Nale (Epileptic Tree #1) or Celia (Epileptic Tree #2).

:thog: Might reach Epic level, but since he seems largely superfluous for purposes other than comic relief, he might not make it. Might be killed in his role as Meatshield for the Linear Guild, acting as cannon fodder for Xykon, the Snarl, the IFCC, etc, but may also live happily ever after.

Just my random guesses, obviously.

EDIT: Yay, I am Pixie in the Playground no more!

[Ancalagon]

0, 0, still epic hopefully, 0, and 0. You don't have any levels when you're dead.

BEFORE the end they will have levels. ;)

[Raging Gene Ray]

0, 0, still epic hopefully, 0, and 0. You don't have any levels when you're dead.

Tell that to Eugene and Horace.

[Gandariel]

:nale::sabine::thog: NO epic, for sure.
they don't count as "strong" enemies.. they are like.. the Team Rocket of Pokemon
:vaarsuvius: epic, for sure
:roy:mmh... he's level 12 right now... sounds difficult...
:haley:maybe epic, then she'll become chief of the thieves' guild in Greysky
:elan:don't think so
:durkon:this guy is so unimportant that no one will care about if he becomes epic or not
:redcloak:yeah, totally!
:xykon:will not get any stronger
:mitd: after someone blows girard's gate
everyone goes to Kraagor's gate
there O-chul and Mitd meet and Mitd shows up and allies with the Good guys

[danielmayer]

:mitd: will eventually gain some points of Wisdom or Intelligence, return to his jungle and ask certain people with a stern look "where is my steak?!"