{3.5e} Dracotaur

[AirGuitarGod32]

This is a set of questions for FAR later than now in my campaign.

I understand right now that Dracotaur (MMIII) has a massive 5LA and 2RHD for some decent features.

However, I have 2 major questions:

1. Has anyone done the math for a Dracotaur's SS Class yet?
2. Is it REALLY worth all of the LA and HD? I mean, its treated as a dragon, but has no real BW (Its glob-o-fire is LAME), it has no flight, no nothing. Its modifiers, while good, are surpassed by far nastier and weaker monsters (I'm aiming at you, Half-Dragon). It seems almost underpowered (in comparison to other pseudo-quadropeds and monsters around its CR)
3. Is it, after LA and RHD are accounted for, a decent PC race for Epic Teir play. Sure, a quadroped is nice, it is easily (as it seems) outclassed quite efficiently
4. Would it be compatable for something like Half-Fiend or Half-Troll? Both of these would give it some serious power upgrades.

ty to any and all who reply. This is more of a mechanical/question of understanding post rather than a build concept.

And for anyone who is wondering, I've decided on a Warforged Crusader of the Lord of Blades/WF Juggernaut/Cleric of the Lord of Blades/Ordained Champion of the Lord of Blades (Playgrounder Note: DM says I get to make any one deity. LoB is mine)

[FishAreWet]

1. Has anyone done the math for a Dracotaur's SS Class yet?
2. Is it REALLY worth all of the LA and HD? I mean, its treated as a dragon, but has no real BW (Its glob-o-fire is LAME), it has no flight, no nothing. Its modifiers, while good, are surpassed by far nastier and weaker monsters (I'm aiming at you, Half-Dragon). It seems almost underpowered (in comparison to other pseudo-quadropeds and monsters around its CR)
3. Is it, after LA and RHD are accounted for, a decent PC race for Epic Teir play. Sure, a quadroped is nice, it is easily (as it seems) outclassed quite efficiently
4. Would it be compatable for something like Half-Fiend or Half-Troll? Both of these would give it some serious power upgrades.

It is, in no stretch of the imagination, worth it.

+8 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha, Large size (without reach...) and the dragon type for 8 levels? HELL NO.

Half Minotuar (dragon 313) Half Troll Dragonwrought Kobold gives you all of that and more in 5 levels.

[Zincorium]

LA is always a bad deal. +5 LA is such that even if your DM is awesome and allows LA buyoff, you're not going to knock out more than one point pre-epic.

The three RHD is neutral (and remember that you don't trade in the racial hit dice unless you only have one), it's slightly worse than barbarian class levels but not so much so as to matter. So let's look at what you actually get for five LA:

-No base attack bonus increase.
-No hit dice.
-Fast movement
-Decent natural armor
-Large size- without reach increase
-+8 str, +2 dex, +6 con, and slightly above average mental scores.

Compare your racial hit dice and LA with base race of full orc, a level of sorceror and 7 levels of Dragon Disciple, which as far as I know is considered an absolutely terrible idea.

-4 more D12 hit dice
-2 more points of BAB
-2 fewer points of natural armor, but you can wear armor you find
-Equal strength, lower dex, lower con, worse mental scores.
-If you sprang for an 11 charisma, 8 1st level spell slots.

Make conclusions as you will.

[Runestar]

Let's see...

Spit fire is worthless.
+0 for being large (because you don't get reach).
+1 for NA
+1.5-2 for unbalanced stats, improved speed and skill bonuses (I lump them together for convenience sake)
+0.5 for natural attacks (and these will likely remain useful all the way, though dr will be an issue, and you don't qualify for multiattack)
Dragon HD is good. But lack of class features still makes in inferior to class lvs, you have few enough that it shouldn't interfere. -0.5LA?

I would peg its LA at +3, which gives an ECL of 6 when coupled with its 3 dragon HD. I suppose a case could be made for LA+2, since I am still a tad divided on the usefulness of its natural attacks).

At epic, it would be quite strong. Bear in mind that LA does not trigger epic bab/saves, so +8str > +2ebab.

I wouldn't toy with any more LA. You already have enough as is. Maybe at epic?

[AirGuitarGod32]

I now see that Dracotaur should have been better.

However, glancing through MMIII, I ran across Sand Giant and nearly came. 4la to be an unstoppable beast. My DM is allowing a thing called the "Well of Souls", which grants 1 wish/month per user. Seriously? From a DM's standpoint, a Half-White Dragon Sand Giant would seriously whoop some serious backside. Heck, If I could make it a class for SS, I would.

[Runestar]

However, glancing through MMIII, I ran across Sand Giant and nearly came. 4la to be an unstoppable beast.

Remember its 15 giant HD, for an ECL of 19. Meaning you need to be in a 19th lv game to be able to play 1. Without any class lvs.

Think it will compare to a 19th lv fighter or barb?

[Zincorium]

Blur is nice.

But you're a level 19 character who has nothing to do other than 'I hit it'. Add in half dragon, and you're now an epic level character.

If you play games where you're still competitive at extremely high levels without some sort of useful class features, good on you. But you die to tucker's kobolds.

Look up ToB and see what class features can do for you.

[Thurbane]

Now that's something I'd be interested in seeing...a monster class for the Dracotaur. :smallsmile:

[Runestar]

One already exists, if you want one for the ECL8 version.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060616a

[Thurbane]

Sweet! Thanks for the link! :smallsmile: