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taltamir
2010-01-10, 07:28 PM
What are the best monsters I can summon (aka, using the lowest level spell slot; not paying anything myself to summon them), to get SLA of spells that have material component cost or XP cost?

For example, Continual Flame costs 50gp. cost can be eliminated by using lesser planer binding to summon a lantern archeon which can cast it as an SLA at no gp cost.

while a summon monster 4 will get a lantern archon too, by the RAW his permanent duration spells expire when the summon spell expires; and they cannot cast spells with XP costs.

Common tools:
Lesser planer binding (outsider up to 6HD)
planer binding (12HD)
greater planer binding (18HD)

List of spells:
Continual Flame (50gp): lesser planer binding to summon a lantern archeon (2-4HD)

commune (100xp): lesser planer binding to summon an imp (4-6HD)

wish (5000xp): gate (1000xp) an efreet for 3 wishes (15000xp total worth). take a pit of flesh from it (kill it so it doesn't seek revenge?) and make a simulacrum giving you 3 wishes per day, every day...

PhoenixRivers
2010-01-10, 07:34 PM
Well, Gate gets you permanency and wish, both of which are rather expensive.

Summon Monster 4 gets a Yeth hound, for an instant hamlet-wide panic button.

Optimystik
2010-01-10, 07:47 PM
Erinyes (LE) have always-on True Seeing. Lillends (CG) have Identify.

Jack_Simth
2010-01-10, 07:49 PM
What are the best monsters I can summon (aka, using the lowest level spell slot; not paying anything myself to summon them), to get SLA of spells that have material component cost or XP cost?

For example, Continual Flame costs 50gp. cost can be eliminated by using summon monster 4 to summon a lantern archeon which can cast it as an SLA at no gp cost.

You can't. Or rather, you can, but it doesn't work the way you want:



When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and [u]it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells. (Specific text from Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning))

So if you Summon a Lantern Archon, and have it cast Continual Flame for you, the Continual Flames gutter out. If you find a spell somewhere that lets you Summon an Efreeti, that Efreeti will not grant you Wishes.

For that, you want Planar Binding.

Starbuck_II
2010-01-10, 07:52 PM
You can't. Or rather, you can, but it doesn't work the way you want:

(Specific text from Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning))

So if you Summon a Lantern Archon, and have it cast Continual Flame for you, the Continual Flames gutter out. If you find a spell somewhere that lets you Summon an Efreeti, that Efreeti will not grant you Wishes.

For that, you want Planar Binding.

False.
It says it won't cast XP costing spells. Wish cost no XP when used by a Efreeti.

Rainbownaga
2010-01-10, 07:55 PM
or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.

I think you missed the end of the passage that had been quoted

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-10, 07:56 PM
Still works for Identify, though there are easier ways to do it.

jokey665
2010-01-10, 07:58 PM
False.
It says it won't cast XP costing spells. Wish cost no XP when used by a Efreeti.


it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.

Emphasis mine.

Optimystik
2010-01-10, 08:00 PM
While XP costs are out, it says nothing about costly GP components. So you can get a Planetar to cast Raise Dead for you for free, etc.

Starbuck_II
2010-01-10, 08:02 PM
That means you need to use Planar Binding then.
Huh, never noticed Efreetis suck for summoning (only good for calling).

taltamir
2010-01-10, 08:06 PM
Erinyes (LE) have always-on True Seeing. Lillends (CG) have Identify.

what spells summon those?


Well, Gate gets you permanency and wish, both of which are rather expensive.

Summon Monster 4 gets a Yeth hound, for an instant hamlet-wide panic button.

excellent. but isn't gate still 1000xp to use to summon a creature?
isn't there a creature with wish and permanancy that can be brought via planar binding?


You can't. Or rather, you can, but it doesn't work the way you want:

(Specific text from Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning))

So if you Summon a Lantern Archon, and have it cast Continual Flame for you, the Continual Flames gutter out. If you find a spell somewhere that lets you Summon an Efreeti, that Efreeti will not grant you Wishes.

For that, you want Planar Binding.

important catch... thank you.

deuxhero
2010-01-10, 08:10 PM
An Imp gets you one of the better Divination effects in core at no cost.

Starbuck_II
2010-01-10, 08:12 PM
Lliends: SM 8
Erinyes: None.

Jack_Simth
2010-01-10, 08:14 PM
excellent. but isn't gate still 1000xp to use to summon a creature?
isn't there a creature with wish and permanancy that can be brought via planar binding?
Efreeti:
10 Hit dice, well within range of Planar Binding.
They have a 1/day ability to grant three Wishes to a mortal.
Wish can duplicate Permanency.
Enjoy, but be warned: They've also got a racial write-up that includes a hatred of servitude, and a note that they advance by class levels.


important catch... thank you.
Yeah. Mostly it means you want Calling effects, rather than Summoning effects. (Lesser/Greater) Planar Binding, Gate, and the like. Alternately, you Call and kill an Efreeti (no deals), then use Simulacrum to make a copy that's under your absolute control forever.

Be warned, though: DM's tend to be allergic to cheddar of that scale.

taltamir
2010-01-10, 08:19 PM
Erinyes (LE) have always-on True Seeing. Lillends (CG) have Identify.

Lillends cast as 6th level bards that know identify, it is not a spell like ability and as such will require a pearl just as if you cast it yourself... so the cost is not mitigated. It needs to be an SLA.


An Imp gets you one of the better Divination effects in core at no cost.

awesome... added to list. and that one is an XP cost too.

deuxhero
2010-01-10, 09:57 PM
A few of the summon guides have notable SLAs listed, I will find one real quick.

Here is one for [evil] creatures (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5573.0).

PhoenixRivers
2010-01-10, 10:11 PM
excellent. but isn't gate still 1000xp to use to summon a creature?
isn't there a creature with wish and permanancy that can be brought via planar binding?

Only one I can think of that has both is a Solar. Permanency 3/day, Wish 1/day.

If it's service is to make permanent the telepathic bonds between 3 people, that's 3 castings of Permanency, which is a steep discount.

Gate 5 Noble Djinn? Their service? Well, they have a service listed in their entry. 3 Wishes.

For 5000xp (the cost of 1 wish), you get 15 wishes. That's 15 for the price of 1. Say Hello to +5 to a pair of attributes, and 5 scrolls of gate.

Repeat, until the entire party has a +5 inherent to all stats. All for 5000 xp.

It can be done for 1000 xp, if the first gate is used to wish for 3 scrolls of gate, and those 3 are used to wish for 3 (9 total), and those 9 are used for 27 more.

Now use the 27 gate scrolls for 27 efreeti, for 81 wishes. 15 stats, with 6 scrolls left over. Repeat the above until the party has +5 to everything.

Darrin
2010-01-10, 11:12 PM
All you really need is Summon Mirror Mephit (Expedition to the Demonweb Pits p. 209). Bard/Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard 2nd level spell. It has Simulacrum 1/day as a SLA, which means standard action to cast and no material components required. Direct it to create a simulacrum of any creature up to 16 HD. Use this to get a simulacrum of an efreeti (three wishes, hit the Pun-Pun button) or a black ethergaunt (17th level Wizard spellcasting as a racial ability).

If the Mirror Mephit isn't familiar with an efreeti or black ethergaunt, it already has a Knowledge: the Planes roll of +7, so just cast or give it a potion of Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) for a +20 competence bonus to its next skill check.

FishAreWet
2010-01-10, 11:30 PM
All you really need is Summon Mirror Mephit (Expedition to the Demonweb Pits p. 209). Bard/Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard 2nd level spell. It has Simulacrum 1/day as a SLA, which means standard action to cast and no material components required. Direct it to create a simulacrum of any creature up to 16 HD. Use this to get a simulacrum of an efreeti (three wishes, hit the Pun-Pun button) or a black ethergaunt (17th level Wizard spellcasting as a racial ability).

If the Mirror Mephit isn't familiar with an efreeti or black ethergaunt, it already has a Knowledge: the Planes roll of +7, so just cast or give it a potion of Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) for a +20 competence bonus to its next skill check.

Argued about this on BG, the Mephit won't have time to cast Simulacrum.

taltamir
2010-01-10, 11:37 PM
you cannot use planer binding for the mirror mephit?

gorfnab
2010-01-10, 11:50 PM
Mastering the Malconvoker (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=289.0) - scroll down to find lists of summonables that have SLA's listed.
Monsters with innate spellcasting (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5514.0) - most of these can be summoned in some way
Practical Demonkeeping (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5573.0) - summonable demons with SLA's listed

PhoenixRivers
2010-01-11, 02:19 AM
All you really need is Summon Mirror Mephit (Expedition to the Demonweb Pits p. 209). Bard/Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard 2nd level spell. It has Simulacrum 1/day as a SLA, which means standard action to cast and no material components required. Direct it to create a simulacrum of any creature up to 16 HD. Use this to get a simulacrum of an efreeti (three wishes, hit the Pun-Pun button) or a black ethergaunt (17th level Wizard spellcasting as a racial ability).

If the Mirror Mephit isn't familiar with an efreeti or black ethergaunt, it already has a Knowledge: the Planes roll of +7, so just cast or give it a potion of Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) for a +20 competence bonus to its next skill check.

Simulacrum has a disadvantage. It has an XP cost when cast normally. Thus, any Summoned creature will refuse to use it, even if that creature has it as a SLA.

Darrin
2010-01-11, 06:51 AM
Simulacrum has a disadvantage. It has an XP cost when cast normally. Thus, any Summoned creature will refuse to use it, even if that creature has it as a SLA.

SLAs don't have an XP cost. And it's a standard action to cast, so I'm not sure how it doesn't have time to cast it.