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View Full Version : Rule 21: Players Will Loot Anything, and Rule 22: Dragons will {do} anything.



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Reltzik
2010-01-10, 07:56 PM
DnD 3.5. The players had chased a villain, a half-dragon fighter riding a half-dragon horse, into a ruined and abandoned series of WW1-esque trenches. (Finally, a DnD army that accounts for AoE magic!) After a game of cat-and-mouse, they corner the fighter in an underground bunker. The last thing the fighter did before insta-dying to the paladin's full attack + haste attack + power attacks is shout a command for someone to attack in draconic.

Pyromaniac Wizard: "Careful! There's someone else here!"
Cleric: "Where?"
Me: "Suddenly the horse takes a deep breath and breathes a cone of green fire. The rogue evades; the cleric saves for half and takes 18 damage."
Paladin: "... dammit."
Wizard: "... holy crap, a fire breathing horse! I WANT IT!"
Paladin: "You sure?"
Wizard: "Can you bond it as your warhorse or something?"
Paladin: "I detect evil just to be sure."
DM: "Uh... it's not exactly friendly..."
Wizard: "Let's knock it out! I'll cast Charm Monster tomorrow!"
DM: "I suppose there ARE rules for exotic paladin mounts... you DO realize that's actually acid it's breathing, and I just call it green fire because chemical burns freak you out ooc?"
Wizard: "I WANT THE FIRE-BREATHING PONY!"

taltamir
2010-01-10, 07:58 PM
a half-dragon horse

dear god that is sick and wrong on so many levels!

and heck, I'd want a fire/acid breathing horse too...

Touchy
2010-01-10, 07:59 PM
In 4e I tried to tame a dire wolf.

I almost succeeded too. :smallfrown: The DM said it went back to the forest, because nothing it saw as a threat was left.

Temotei
2010-01-10, 07:59 PM
I like being something huge and using a really small mount.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-10, 08:02 PM
They killed that perfectly good fighter? They could have knocked him out and sold him into slavery.

:P

taltamir
2010-01-10, 08:05 PM
They killed that perfectly good fighter? They could have knocked him out and sold him into slavery.

:P

nah... kill him, and then bring him back as a sentient undead that keeps his class levels...

Boci
2010-01-10, 08:05 PM
nah... kill him, and then bring him back as a sentient undead that keeps his class levels...

Animate dread warrior?

Dragero
2010-01-10, 08:14 PM
So a dragon and a horse are somehow able to mate? None the less I still want a chemical fire pony!

jokey665
2010-01-10, 08:15 PM
So a dragon and a horse are somehow able to mate? None the less I still want a chemical fire pony!

Dragons can mate with anything, just about.

Gamerlord
2010-01-10, 08:16 PM
Dragons can mate with anything, just about.

Half-pigs.
Half-sheep.


The kind of ridiculousness this can cause...

KellKheraptis
2010-01-10, 08:19 PM
Hey now, one of my more maniacal wizards (and trust me...that's pretty far along the crazy scale for my wizards) had a collection of magically modified nightmares he called affectionately "The Apocalypse Ponies." All in different hues, shades, and degrees of decay :D

Temotei
2010-01-10, 08:24 PM
Half-pigs.
Half-sheep.


The kind of ridiculousness this can cause...

I'm going to do this.

"You come across a farmer and two sheep. The sheep look a little sick, with a green hue to their wool, and their skin looks slightly scaly."
"Hello far-"
"The sheep blow acid on you. *rolls for 6d8 damage*"
"...what?"

jokey665
2010-01-10, 08:26 PM
Half-pigs.
Half-sheep.


The kind of ridiculousness this can cause...

You think that's bad? You can have a half-dragon ooze.

KellKheraptis
2010-01-10, 08:27 PM
You think that's bad? You can have a half-dragon ooze.

Sounds like the green slime got a little too close to draconic mating season with one that wised up to dealing with wyrmlings :P

The Dark Fiddler
2010-01-10, 08:29 PM
So a dragon and a horse are somehow able to mate? None the less I still want a chemical fire pony!

Ever seen Shrek?

taltamir
2010-01-10, 08:29 PM
I'm going to do this.

"You come across a farmer and two sheep. The sheep look a little sick, with a green hue to their wool, and their skin looks slightly scaly."
"Hello far-"
"The sheep blow acid on you. *rolls for 6d8 damage*"
"...what?"

the farmer is a polymorphed dragon...

onthetown
2010-01-10, 08:29 PM
...can I have an acid-breathing pony, too?

I need to ask my DM that now.

I love you so much for that idea.

Lioness
2010-01-10, 08:30 PM
I found this rule the first session I DMed.

Party enter a clearing, where they see dead gnoll bodies crucified on trees. They are rotting, etc.

Ninja: I loot the bodies!
DM: Ok...you take *rolls* three points of con damage, as poisonous spores burst out from the body.

taltamir
2010-01-10, 08:31 PM
So a dragon and a horse are somehow able to mate? None the less I still want a chemical fire pony!

a lot of dragons can take any form they want, at will; and when old enough, can use spells like polymorph to truly get ANY form... in DnD world, if you shape shift into something and have sex, you just created a hybrid...

polymorph into a fire elemental and reproduce, you just got yourself some fire genasi children.

Temotei
2010-01-10, 08:32 PM
a lot of dragons can take any form they want, at will; and when old enough, can use spells like polymorph to truly get ANY form... in DnD world, if you shape shift into something and have sex, you just created a hybrid...

polymorph into a fire elemental and reproduce, you just got yourself some fire genasi children.

I wonder how elementals mate. I wonder how much damage elementals do when they mate.

taltamir
2010-01-10, 08:37 PM
I wonder how elementals mate. I wonder how much damage elementals do when they mate.

It varies by elemental, usually they have a note such as "anyone touching a fire elmental takes X fire damage per round"
But since you are both the same elemental, you both have immunity to it.

BTW, did you know that elementals are living creatures? they don't live a corpse but they ARE alive... this btw means that you can use one of the "living to undead without ever being dead" methods to make an undead elemental in theory.

Lysander
2010-01-10, 08:40 PM
That wizard better hope nobody dispels the Charm Monster while he's riding...

taltamir
2010-01-10, 08:46 PM
mmm...


Abilities
Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2.


Intelligence (Int)
Intelligence determines how well your character learns and reasons. This ability is important for wizards because it affects how many spells they can cast, how hard their spells are to resist, and how powerful their spells can be. It’s also important for any character who wants to have a wide assortment of skills.

You apply your character’s Intelligence modifier to:

The number of languages your character knows at the start of the game.
The number of skill points gained each level. (But your character always gets at least 1 skill point per level.)
Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Knowledge, Search, and Spellcraft checks. These are the skills that have Intelligence as their key ability.
A wizard gains bonus spells based on her Intelligence score. The minimum Intelligence score needed to cast a wizard spell is 10 + the spell’s level.

An animal has an Intelligence score of 1 or 2. A creature of humanlike intelligence has a score of at least 3.

there are actual charts that explain exactly how smart someone is... a 3 int person is NOT 30 IQ person... its more like 70-80 IQ for an int 3 person (you are borderline retarded at int 3).
The half dragon horse has int 2, a half dragon horse thus has int 4 and is sentient, and viable as a player character.
It isn't a monster, it is an NPC.

Sir Homeslice
2010-01-10, 08:49 PM
I once looted a barrel of salt and used it to severely annoy a water elemental.

Also, I've looted people before. Good times.

Ravingdork
2010-01-10, 08:50 PM
Our entire party was forced to retreat from a gaggle of half-dragon turkeys once. No joke.

They were kept by the kobold tribe that we were trying to oust. Apparently, their shaman had been using his magic to try and find ways to bring the kobolds closer to their dragon god. He started by experimenting on the livestock first as a safety precaution. As it turned out, they made great guard animals capable of easily running off low level adventurers.

Ashram
2010-01-10, 08:50 PM
Damn right we'll loot anything. >.>

Even as a NG healing cleric (A.K.A. the walking medicine cabinet), if I know there's nothing that I can do for someone at the moment (Such as not having Restoration prepared, or the diamond dust component for it, when someone gets ability drained), I go right to looting.

Green Bean
2010-01-10, 08:50 PM
I once played with a LG necromancer cleric, one who was obsessed with increasing his wealth of medical knowledge, which led took "let's divvy up the bad guy's possessions" to a whole new level. Let's just say that if you have Cure Disease for infections, you don't need a Regenerate spell to replace lost body parts.

Reltzik
2010-01-10, 09:07 PM
dear god that is sick and wrong on so many levels!

and heck, I'd want a fire/acid breathing horse too...

It gets worse.

The green-dragon great wyrm in question sits at the head of a pocket empire, worshipped as a living god. It's quite mad, both megalomaniacal and solipist. It shapeshifts like crazy and favors the form of an androgenous humanoid -- it took the party something like 10 sessions to figure out it was a dragon, and they still don't know its natural gender. The nobility of the realm are all its half-dragon children, most of whom have half-dragon mounts. There are half-dragon beasts of burden (yay +8 str bonus to oxen) and even halfdragon pets.

These "Children of the Lord" fall all over themselves in their love for their parent. It's a fusion of religious worship, fillial love, national loyalty, and... something more. Nothing was ever explicitly said, but the PCs are SEVERELY CREEPED OUT.

It's got a thing for elves. Both elves were propositioned by it. ((They said no as politely as they could.)) Ever since then, they refer to it as Pervy (or creepy) Elf-Fancier.

I like the image of a nation of half-dragons with a dragon as a head. It meshes pretty well with lots of evil fantasy armies from pulp books and film. You know the types, the ones with themes -- all undead, all pig-like, all lizard-like, etc.

taltamir
2010-01-10, 09:12 PM
It gets worse.

The green-dragon great wyrm in question sits at the head of a pocket empire, worshipped as a living god. It's quite mad, both megalomaniacal and solipist. It shapeshifts like crazy and favors the form of an androgenous humanoid -- it took the party something like 10 sessions to figure out it was a dragon, and they still don't know its natural gender. The nobility of the realm are all its half-dragon children, most of whom have half-dragon mounts. There are half-dragon beasts of burden (yay +8 str bonus to oxen) and even halfdragon pets.

These "Children of the Lord" fall all over themselves in their love for their parent. It's a fusion of religious worship, fillial love, national loyalty, and... something more. Nothing was ever explicitly said, but the PCs are SEVERELY CREEPED OUT.

It's got a thing for elves. Both elves were propositioned by it. ((They said no as politely as they could.)) Ever since then, they refer to it as Pervy (or creepy) Elf-Fancier.

I like the image of a nation of half-dragons with a dragon as a head. It meshes pretty well with lots of evil fantasy armies from pulp books and film. You know the types, the ones with themes -- all undead, all pig-like, all lizard-like, etc.

thats freaking awesome... and actually QUITE sensible. I always wondered why so few dragons use their loins to acquire awesome power and wealth.

since we already established half dragon horses and the like... and a suitably creepy kingdom of the "pervy dragon"... well, incest could follow.
Imagine a few dozen 3/4th dragon and 7/8th dragons?

Fuzzie Fuzz
2010-01-10, 09:19 PM
How about sheep parts? A sheep attacked them, they killed it in one hit, and then the ranger skinned it, and put the skin, wool, and bones in his pack, and would have filled some vials with blood if there was any blood in the body. Unfortunately, having not planned for a sheep dissection, this led to the startling discovery of the lack of blood, leading them to guess that they were vampires. (That was a very weird adventure. Vampire sheep FTW!)

taltamir
2010-01-10, 09:20 PM
How about sheep parts? A sheep attacked them, they killed it in one hit, and then the ranger skinned it, and put the skin, wool, and bones in his pack, and would have filled some vials with blood if there was any blood in the body. Unfortunately, having not planned for a sheep dissection, this led to the startling discovery of the lack of blood, leading them to guess that they were vampires. (That was a very weird adventure. Vampire sheep FTW!)

heh, I once came across a vampire awakened tree.

Temotei
2010-01-10, 09:26 PM
heh, I once came across a vampire awakened tree.

Vampire can be applied to awakened plants?

taltamir
2010-01-10, 09:38 PM
Vampire can be applied to awakened plants?

Rule of cool :)
we surprised an evil druid while he was making a blood sacrifice, we knocked him against a nearby tree with just a few HP left... he finished the ritual by using himself, an awaken, and the tree. It was awesomeness.

Temotei
2010-01-10, 10:36 PM
Rule of cool :)
we surprised an evil druid while he was making a blood sacrifice, we knocked him against a nearby tree with just a few HP left... he finished the ritual by using himself, an awaken, and the tree. It was awesomeness.

Nice.

I want a ghost tree. Or a lich tree.

Brendan
2010-01-10, 11:03 PM
Half dragon awakened Tree? how why would that happen?

9mm
2010-01-10, 11:12 PM
Half dragon awakened Tree? how why would that happen?

drunk dm applying random templates.

taltamir
2010-01-10, 11:14 PM
or a drunk dragon :)

starwoof
2010-01-10, 11:15 PM
There was actually a dungeon magazine adventure that featured a red dragon that always kept a huge stock of alcohol around. As a side effect his lake was full of half dragon crocodiles.:smallamused:

Sharkman1231
2010-01-10, 11:31 PM
the farmer is a polymorphed dragon...

OH GOD, NO FARMER JOKES!!
(Farmer + Sheep = OMG THE HORROR!!)

Vaynor
2010-01-10, 11:31 PM
I remember in one game, the players had just killed the BBEG, and he had a really awesome sword that the fighter wanted immediately after seeing that the boss had it. Knowing that the group was loot-happy, I made it so the sword had a maximized, empowered explosive runes on it. Before healing up after defeating the boss, the over-zealous fighter ran over to the sword, and, being curious, read the inscription. Not only did the boss's trap kill the fighter, but the sword also exploded from the 36+3d6 force damage. :smallbiggrin:

After that the fighter had the wizard inspect all items before using them.

taltamir
2010-01-10, 11:34 PM
that would result in the wizard dying and the sword exploding...
A lot of the magic traps are only possible for a rogue to detect and then disarm without triggering. (only a rogue!, the spells specifies only a rogue can do it)

Vaynor
2010-01-10, 11:38 PM
that would result in the wizard dying and the sword exploding...
A lot of the magic traps are only possible for a rogue to detect and then disarm without triggering. (only a rogue!, the spells specifies only a rogue can do it)

Well there was no rogue, and I'm not saying it made any more sense (the wizard can at least determine what the sword was enchanted with), the fighter just didn't want to go near looted magical items anymore, primarily out of fear.

taltamir
2010-01-10, 11:59 PM
it is a sensible assumption to make... until I actually tried to do it myself I never realized that it takes a rogue to disable magical traps, not a wizard.... pretty damn odd, but so it is.

and not all magic traps, some are better handled by a wizard actually. it takes both a rogue and a wizard working in tandem.

drengnikrafe
2010-01-11, 12:09 AM
If this thread is about really cool templates applied to random things, yes. I once had a half-fiend working as a Paladin's mount. I forgot how I got around the restrictions...
If this thread is about players taking anything that's not nailed down, yes. My PCs once tried to steal a giant saphire in the middle of a store, even after I repeatedly told them about the high level NPCs populating the store, and the myriad of traps that were on it.

Xzeno
2010-01-11, 12:14 AM
heh, I once came across a vampire awakened tree.

I once ran across an undead alien Nazi Communist half-fiend celestial draconic vampire ninja cyborg doppelganger from hell. You think I'm kidding.

On the subject of looting, my players not only loot anything alive, they try to loot anything with flavor text.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 12:26 AM
not nailed down?
Do you have any idea how much DOORS are worth? especially sturdy ones?
disintegrate (the wall) + shrink item means you can loot any door you come across, and most are ridiculously overpriced.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-11, 12:35 AM
Wizard: "I WANT THE FIRE-BREATHING PONY!"That is sig-worthy. Do you mind?

dear god that is sick and wrong on so many levels!Not really. You should see what goes on elsewhere on the forums. House of Horrors, Crack Pairings, House of Fanservice, there's some creepiness that makes half-dragon horses seem downright expected.

it is a sensible assumption to make... until I actually tried to do it myself I never realized that it takes a rogue to disable magical traps, not a wizard.... pretty damn odd, but so it is.It doesn't take a Rogue to disable magic traps, it simply takes a wizard, a casting of Summon Monster 1, and a deep and abiding hatred for celestial monkeys.

2xMachina
2010-01-11, 12:37 AM
Also, destroyed traps = disarmed traps. Find it, blast it.

Vaynor
2010-01-11, 12:40 AM
That is sig-worthy. Do you mind?
Not really. You should see what goes on elsewhere on the forums. House of Horrors, Crack Pairings, House of Fanservice, there's some creepiness that makes half-dragon horses seem downright expected.
It doesn't take a Rogue to disable magic traps, it simply takes a wizard, a casting of Summon Monster 1, and a deep and abiding hatred for celestial monkeys.

I wonder if celestial monkeys can read...

taltamir
2010-01-11, 12:41 AM
casting of Summon Monster 1, and a deep and abiding hatred for celestial monkeys.

lollrey, so true...

but sometimes they are on something valuable, like a spellbook. the problem is that explosive runes will actually destroy whatever you are trying to loot; so its an awesome valid way to get rid of them on a regular old trap, its not a good idea to trigger them intentionally if written on a valuable magic item... it is also the only magical trap that damages the item it is on AFAIK.

mmm... dispel magic could work, but on a failed attempt to dispel it will trigger the runes.

You know, explosive runes has no material or XP cost, you can cast it once a day on any single item you own... And you can instruct anyone you want in how to read them without harm... and you can auto succeed on erasing them...

it is the ultimate item security system, and you can prevent anyone from enjoying loot from your corpse. a mean DM would have every single looted item be trapped with explosive runes :)


I wonder if celestial monkeys can read...

the celestial template stipulates that anyone who has it has human like sentience (at least int 3) and that they know celestial (don't they know common too?)...
and in DnD world everyone except barbarians are literate in every language they speak.

Vaynor
2010-01-11, 12:45 AM
the celestial template stipulates that anyone who has it has human like sentience (at least int 3) and that they know celestial (don't they know common too?)...
and in DnD world everyone except barbarians are literate in every language they speak.

Well then their intelligence is not high enough to gain any bonus languages, and celestial would be the only language they'd know, making them quite useless for getting rid of explosive runes. The concept is quite hilarious though.

That is, unless the explosive runes were written in celestial.

Kallisti
2010-01-11, 12:47 AM
You think that's bad? You can have a half-dragon ooze.


But isn't that about as good an idea as trying to make sweet love to a gelatinous cube?

Somehow, I doubt Kobold-Bard thought anyone would take him literally. Stupid dragons...

Temotei
2010-01-11, 12:55 AM
Also, destroyed traps = disarmed traps. Find it, blast it.

This.

Or just throw the little gnome in there. :xykon:

Kallisti
2010-01-11, 12:56 AM
:xykon:Sacrificing minionsnon-critical party members. Is there any problem it can't solve?

averagejoe
2010-01-11, 01:02 AM
I remember there was a Star Wars game we played where we took looting to ridiculous levels. I was playing a robot, and always made sure to take the hard drive and memory out of any computer we were done with forever (in enemy bases or what have you.) At the end of a campaign we found this sith temple. We ended up taking all the sarcophagi and, using the Jedi's lightsaber, removing all of the carvings from the walls and using our (scavenged) battle droids to load them into the ship to sell to collectors or museums, quite literally gutting the place. The GM was somewhat annoyed when we prioritized this above fighting the final boss.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 01:02 AM
mmm... actually, I checked the celestial template doesn't specify that it gives you any languages. only sentience.

speak language says you know 1 or two languages depending on your race.

and page 12 of the PHB has this to say about languages:

All characters know how to speak Common. A dwarf, elf, gnome, half-elf, half-orc, or halfling also speaks a racial language, as appropriate. A smart character (one who had an Intelligence bonus at 1st level) speaks other languages as well, one extra language per point of Intelligence bonus as a starting character. Select your character’s bonus languages (if any) from the list found in his or her race’s description later in this chapter.

Literacy: Any character except a barbarian can read and write all the languages he or she speaks. (A barbarian can become literate by spending skill points, see Illiteracy, page 25.)

So a celestial monkey speaks and can read/write in common. But cannot speak celestial :)

taltamir
2010-01-11, 01:04 AM
This.

Or just throw the little gnome in there. :xykon:

you mean punt :)


I remember there was a Star Wars game we played where we took looting to ridiculous levels. I was playing a robot, and always made sure to take the hard drive and memory out of any computer we were done with forever (in enemy bases or what have you.) At the end of a campaign we found this sith temple. We ended up taking all the sarcophagi and, using the Jedi's lightsaber, removing all of the carvings from the walls and using our (scavenged) battle droids to load them into the ship to sell to collectors or museums, quite literally gutting the place. The GM was somewhat annoyed when we prioritized this above fighting the final boss.

lol; very nice. I got the party in trouble for looting enemies in the middle of a hostile situation...

Vaynor
2010-01-11, 01:07 AM
mmm... actually, I checked the celestial template doesn't specify that it gives you any languages. only sentience.

speak language says you know 1 or two languages depending on your race.

and page 12 of the PHB has this to say about languages:


So a celestial monkey speaks and can read/write in common. But cannot speak celestial :)

False, a monkey is not a character. A celestial monkey, with an Int of 3, also gains no additional bonus languages. So, if anything, the monkey would know celestial, and unlikely anything else.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 01:10 AM
it is an NPC, a non player character.

Runestar
2010-01-11, 01:12 AM
By the rules, we can also have half-dragon swarms.

Lets see the fluff explain that...:smallbiggrin:

But yeah, half-dragon treants are also possible.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 01:15 AM
By the rules, we can also have half-dragon swarms.

Lets see the fluff explain that...:smallbiggrin:

But yeah, half-dragon treants are also possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant#Development_and_reproduction

oh god... forget fire ants, its DRAGON ANTS! (half dragon technically) and they are completely legit...

Vaynor
2010-01-11, 01:18 AM
it is an NPC, a non player character.

I just researched it further, and although it's pretty stupid it appears that you are correct. Celestial monkeys can read and write common, but cannot even understand celestial, simply because it's not mentioned in the monster entry. Not because it's an NPC though, because it's a monster.


A creature can speak all the languages mentioned in its description, plus one additional language per point of Intelligence bonus. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise).

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-11, 01:19 AM
By the rules, we can also have half-dragon swarms.

Lets see the fluff explain that...:smallbiggrin:Well. Runestar, you see, when a Dragon and a large number of demonic roaches love each other very much, sometimes they get married. And if the dragon casts Polymorph on himself to be more like the roaches, then the dragon and the roaches can [self-censored to avoid needing any more brain bleach] And since dragons don't get the proper divine protection spells, 2 weeks later you get a swarm of little baby half-dragon roaches. See? That's the miracle of 3.x templating rules. Life for all the fluffy things. Now go to bed, I need to help Closak get ready for his big date with that nice red bug from down the street.

Temotei
2010-01-11, 01:35 AM
Well. Runestar, you see, when a Dragon and a large number of demonic roaches love each other very much, sometimes they get married. And if the dragon casts Polymorph on himself to be more like the roaches, then the dragon and the roaches can [self-censored to avoid needing any more brain bleach] And since dragons don't get the proper divine protection spells, 2 weeks later you get a swarm of little baby half-dragon roaches. See? That's the miracle of 3.x templating rules. Life for all the fluffy things. Now go to bed, I need to help Closak get ready for his big date with that nice red bug from down the street.

Emphasis mine. This made me laugh. I feel immature again! Yay! :smallbiggrin:

Tackyhillbillu
2010-01-11, 01:44 AM
By the rules, we can also have half-dragon swarms.

Lets see the fluff explain that...:smallbiggrin:

But yeah, half-dragon treants are also possible.

http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05042002.shtml

...I'm not sure if I should laugh, or cringe in horror.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-11, 01:46 AM
Emphasis mine. This made me laugh. I feel immature again! Yay! :smallbiggrin:And that makes me smile. Glad I could brighten your night.

Kallisti
2010-01-11, 01:48 AM
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05042002.shtml

...I'm not sure if I should laugh, or cringe in horror.

Do both, it's what I'm doing.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 01:48 AM
I am gonna be a little more technical here and say that a queen ant / bee / etc can lay millions of eggs fertilized via one sexual intercourse.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-11, 01:51 AM
I am gonna be a little more technical here and say that a queen ant / bee / etc can lay millions of eggs fertilized via one sexual intercourse.Why do you think I went with Roaches? They're much more fun for all involved. unless you're not into hot dragon-on-roach sex, but in that case, I'm not even sure I want to talk to you anymore

taltamir
2010-01-11, 01:56 AM
Why do you think I went with Roaches? They're much more fun for all involved. unless you're not into hot dragon-on-roach sex, but in that case, I'm not even sure I want to talk to you anymore

why... of course I am... who isn't a fan of some hot roach action?

you know what, I am gonna take this a step further and assume everything with the celestial template happened because an angel had sex with the appropriate creature...

Xzeno
2010-01-11, 02:00 AM
why... of course I am... who isn't a fan of some hot roach action?

you know what, I am gonna take this a step further and assume everything with the celestial template happened because an angel had sex with the appropriate creature...

That's... not how you get the celestial template.

Fenlun
2010-01-11, 02:01 AM
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05042002.shtml

I almost died laughing

taltamir
2010-01-11, 02:06 AM
I almost died laughing

read the pages right before and you will laugh even more... start here:
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp04292002.shtml

heck, read the entire comic :) it is hillariously awesome.

Lycan 01
2010-01-11, 02:13 AM
Did they carry over half-dragon stuff to 4e? :smallconfused: That'd be an interesting twist to throw at my players. Particularly the half-dragon turkeys and sheep... I'm too lazy to check the MM, but do 4e dragons have the ability to take human (or another creature) form?


Right, so, in regards to looting...

One of my players looted a wight earlier. A wight that had been wearing only tattered rags. When I stressed this point, he grinned and did the "glove snap" gesture. Hilarity ensued as I described how the Sorcerer found 2 silver tooth fillings, discovered that he'd broken his femur in his younger years and that it had healed quite well, and a variety of other fun and random facts.

Finally, just to reward his curiousity, he found a few severed fingers in the wight's stomach, one of which had a gold ring on it.

More hilarity ensued when the Paladin forced the Sorcerer to take a bath in the horse water trough before he could come into the tavern, and the Sorcerer began removing wight organs from his robes. :smalleek: His character has a blood fixation, so he licked the blood off his fingers... The blood of a life-force stealing creature, I pointed out after he'd been doing this for almost a mnute. His reaction was great, but thankfully he made his Fort save...

ShippoWildheart
2010-01-11, 02:20 AM
read the pages right before and you will laugh even more... start here:
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp04292002.shtml

heck, read the entire comic :) it is hillariously awesome.

Auuuuuugh! Do not want Redneck Treants. Ever. :eek:

Tackyhillbillu
2010-01-11, 02:22 AM
Everytime I DM, I'm tempted to pull them out.

Kris Strife
2010-01-11, 02:27 AM
That's... not how you get the celestial template.

Thats how you get the half-celestial template. :smalltongue:

Fenlun
2010-01-11, 02:32 AM
Everytime I DM, I'm tempted to pull them out.

The sad thing is, is that my PC's are currently in a cursed forest at the moment... This would ruin the scary effect:smallconfused: or just make it that much more intense :smallbiggrin:

Tackyhillbillu
2010-01-11, 02:34 AM
See, my players like attacking things. They don't like retreating. These would teach them rather quickly what a bad idea that is.

Kris Strife
2010-01-11, 02:36 AM
Half dragon awakened Tree? how why would that happen?

Draconomicon has, in its sample dragons list, I think either a black or green dragon that surounds itself with its half dragon children, including half dragon shambling mounds and tendrilucous. Probably didn't spell that last one right.

starwoof
2010-01-11, 02:38 AM
Draconomicon has, in its sample dragons list, I think either a black or green dragon that surounds itself with its half dragon children, including half dragon shambling mounds and tendrilucous. Probably didn't spell that last one right.

Rule #22: Dragons Will !@#$ Anything.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 02:49 AM
Rule #22: Dragons Will !@#$ Anything.

so will humans...

Fenlun
2010-01-11, 03:34 AM
so will humans...

Hey, it's called Inter-species Erotica

PhoenixRivers
2010-01-11, 03:54 AM
so will humans...

One word.

Centaurs.

Tackyhillbillu
2010-01-11, 04:18 AM
My question, what the hell do you call a Human/Halfling Hybrid?

taltamir
2010-01-11, 04:42 AM
My question, what the hell do you call a Human/Halfling Hybrid?

threequarterling? no wait... half-halfling

dyslexicfaser
2010-01-11, 05:47 AM
I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere, the result is a taller, thinner halfling, called a Longfellow.

Now there's an idea. Why would anyone have boring old human children, when you can track down a dragon and - for a nominal fee - give your children the gift that keeps on giving: a +4 LA template.

PhoenixRivers
2010-01-11, 05:49 AM
I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere, the result is a taller, thinner halfling, called a Longfellow.

Now there's an idea. Why would anyone have boring old human children, when you can track down a dragon and - for a nominal fee - give your children the gift that keeps on giving: a +4 LA template.

Mating with dragons: Making casters less viable since 733.

2xMachina
2010-01-11, 06:12 AM
Half-dragon commoners!

Coidzor
2010-01-11, 06:13 AM
That's... not how you get the celestial template.

But wouldn't that be a great practical joke on the part of an angel's superior to play on an angel? :smallamused:


Mating with dragons: Making casters less viable since 733.

<_< >_> Half-Dragon Land was invented solely to nerf non-full dragon casters.

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-11, 07:49 AM
Somehow, I doubt Kobold-Bard thought anyone would take him literally. Stupid dragons...

YAY! Cross thread quoting :smallbiggrin:

Although I acually made that quote from personal experience. It was a Half-Celestial Gelatinous Cube.

The DM's logic being that since Angels are filled with a deep compassion and love (despite my pleadings for sanity he decided it meant that kind of love) for all non-Evil creatures, and they are inherently immune to Acid damage, it's only a matter of time until some slightly odd Solar came along with a thing for semi-sentient goop.


Dragons can mate with anything, just about.

Dragons, Celestial, Demons/Devils, Fey and Humans can mate with literally everything and anything. The chart in the Book of Erotic Fantasy is worrying to say the least.

Edit: Back on topic, one of my Players lost their Archivist to a Halfling Paladin's Riding Dog. The team Swashbuckler immediately stopped attacking the Paladin and began divvying out loot in the middle of the battle because I'd described the tunnels they were in as unstable, so she didn't want to risk losing his +2 crossbow to a cave-in.

Loyalty amongst players, gotta love it.

starwoof
2010-01-11, 08:02 AM
Dragons, Celestial, Demons/Devils, Fey and Humans can mate with literally everything and anything. The chart in the Book of Erotic Fantasy is worrying to say the least.

They have a chart?



Actually... I'm kinda curious about that. Now I want to see said chart... but I don't really want to touch that book...

dsmiles
2010-01-11, 08:14 AM
They have a chart?



Actually... I'm kinda curious about that. Now I want to see said chart... but I don't really want to touch that book...

I'd recommend rubber gloves at a minimum...:smallwink:

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-11, 08:20 AM
They have a chart?

Actually... I'm kinda curious about that. Now I want to see said chart... but I don't really want to touch that book...

Indeed they do. It's an interesting book but you (and everyone else ever) are probably wise to steer clear of it.

Runestar
2010-01-11, 08:52 AM
They have a chart?

Actually... I'm kinda curious about that. Now I want to see said chart... but I don't really want to touch that book...

Yeah, basically states what races can mate with each other.

For instance, bugbears can breed with dryads and hobgoblins but not with centaurs or gnolls. :smallamused:

Zom B
2010-01-11, 09:11 AM
My players came across a Huge-sized statue of a gold spider with eight onyx eyes. Evidently the adventure's designers thought players might try to pry out the eyes and had those trapped. What they didn't apparently think players would do:

Wizard: How much does this thing weigh?
Me: It's solid gold. *estimating* Um...90 tons.
Wizard: Way too high to teleport it back to town.
Cleric: I can solve that. *Casts Animate Objects* There's no weight restriction on creatures!

Yes, the party marched through the city with a Huge-sized golden spider skittering along after them that they tried to sell. When that didn't work (nobody could afford 90 tons worth of gold and most of the people they encountered ran in terror), they ended up melting it down and selling the gold bricks off a bit at a time.

Parra
2010-01-11, 09:49 AM
Reminds me of a time when a Monk in a game I DM'd scooped up some Animated Adamantine Gnomes (10 or so in total) and stored them in bags of holdings. He later (carefully) put kilts on them, painted there faces blue and used them as his own mini attack force.

Blackfang108
2010-01-11, 10:06 AM
I updated the Neogi Adventure from Lords of Madness to 4e.

My players stole the scenery, specifically, the Neogi Spider spelljammer.

><

And we're not using the "kills the pilot" helm. These Neogi are Smart, and realize how rediculously impractical that is.

dsmiles
2010-01-11, 10:15 AM
And we're not using the "kills the pilot" helm. These Neogi are Smart, and realize how rediculously impractical that is.

Not impractical when you have nigh unlimited access to slaves...

Bouregard
2010-01-11, 10:21 AM
Yes, the party marched through the city with a Huge-sized golden spider skittering along after them that they tried to sell. When that didn't work (nobody could afford 90 tons worth of gold and most of the people they encountered ran in terror), they ended up melting it down and selling the gold bricks off a bit at a time.

And I wonder why everyone is afraid of door to door salesman....


@players looting anything...
Adamantite is pretty solid yes, but never try to make doors out of it. Those pesky adventurers will steal your door.

alisbin
2010-01-11, 10:38 AM
near the beginning of my groups current campaign we were clearing out an undeath cult's partially abandoned temple. in the entranceway to the main temple there were skull carvings with gem eyes. we get attacked from behind by a bunch of skeletons (we're level 2 and wounded at this point so their a pretty nasty threat) so, we being fairly greedy bastards (every party member at that point was either LN,TN or CN, mostly CN) decide to let the fighter and cleric fight in the doorway while the rest of us form a humanoid pyramid to get the halfling rogue high enough to dig out the gems. the truly great moment was after the first set of gems comes out, along with a stream of con damage gas, we, without any hesitation move to the other wall and get the set, only stopping to yell "hold your breath" to the fighter and cleric.
the next encounter had a good moment too, after finishing off the skeletons we go into the main hall and the warlock notices a fancy greataxe on a pile of big bones. naturally he grabs for it at which point the bones wake up and become a skeletal ogre. not content with wetting himself and fleeing, the warlock (str 10 btw) decides he wants that damn greataxe and attempts a strength check to take it away from the dead ogre. i can't even begin to describe the hilarity that ensued when he succeded!

Kris Strife
2010-01-11, 10:41 AM
My players came across a Huge-sized statue of a gold spider with eight onyx eyes. Evidently the adventure's designers thought players might try to pry out the eyes and had those trapped. What they didn't apparently think players would do:

Wizard: How much does this thing weigh?
Me: It's solid gold. *estimating* Um...90 tons.
Wizard: Way too high to teleport it back to town.
Cleric: I can solve that. *Casts Animate Objects* There's no weight restriction on creatures!

Yes, the party marched through the city with a Huge-sized golden spider skittering along after them that they tried to sell. When that didn't work (nobody could afford 90 tons worth of gold and most of the people they encountered ran in terror), they ended up melting it down and selling the gold bricks off a bit at a time.

So... They had a huge sized, animated gold spider and they decided to walk back to the city?

Evard
2010-01-11, 10:45 AM
I would think this is DM rule number 5 or so...

One of my players in 4e could not for the life of him defeat a normal alligator (kept rolling 5 or under) and the alligator kept biting him in the ass (laughs went all around) finally he killed it and looted its skull... thats normal... except he made the skull into butt guard -_-

Another character wanted to loot the building that had shady looking men and women was coming and going even though they could hardly see them leave or enter it... I tried to explain that it was a rogue guild when they asked towns people -_- they didn't get it... So they went into the building to loot it and well.. died by multiple stabbing when the cleric said "oh we can take these commoner's"

dsmiles
2010-01-11, 10:47 AM
Speaking of giant spider statues...once I, as a Thief (yes, Thief, not Rogue), stole the ruby eyes out of a statue of Lolth. Needless to say, she was not pleased. This is also the character that managed to swipe a Ring of Teleport off of the finger of a lich in mid-combat (99% Pick Pockets, rolled a 01. Go ahead, tell me I can't do it). He also stole the diamonds from the ceiling of an observatory (it belonged to said lich, so it was okay).

Tyger
2010-01-11, 11:00 AM
It doesn't take a Rogue to disable magic traps, it simply takes a wizard, a casting of Summon Monster 1, and a deep and abiding hatred for celestial monkeys.

Speaking of sig-worthy, hope you don't mind, but this is the funniest thing I have seen in a long, long time. PM any objections to me!

dsmiles
2010-01-11, 11:09 AM
So... They had a huge sized, animated gold spider and they decided to walk back to the city?

No, I think the moral of that story is that there's no weight limit on teleporting creatures as opposed to objects...

Xzeno
2010-01-11, 11:12 AM
Thats how you get the half-celestial template. :smalltongue:

Not exactly. A celestial creature isn't an angel. It's a creature with the celestial template. Thus, to get a half-celestial sheep, a sheep mates with another sheep, though one is celestial. No humanoid mates with a sheep. Same goes for half dragons, in a way, because dragons polymorph.


One word.

Centaurs.

That's not how centaurs are- nevermind.

hamishspence
2010-01-11, 11:16 AM
Half-celestial has, I think, a requirement that the base creature be at least Int 4. Maybe to prevent this sort of thing.

Heroes of Horror has a variant of half-fiend (Unholy Scion) that may have an animal as the base creature. Unlike normal half-fiends, the templated creature is almost identical to a normal one.

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-11, 11:22 AM
Speaking of sig-worthy, hope you don't mind, but this is the funniest thing I have seen in a long, long time. PM any objections to me!

There are far superior uses for Celestial Monkeys. Namely sending 3 of them after an Avatar of Lolth to use their 1/day Smite Evil, purely because she was kicking the crap out of us and I was desperate for anything to distract her from casting.

Monkey rolls a Natural 20 (houseruled that crits auto confirm) and actually hurts her. She is so annoyed at being humiliated that she grabbed the monkey and teleported away, winning us the encounter that was looking like a few characters might perish.

She returned later on having warped the Monkey into an Huge 8 legged, black and gold furred "spidermonkey" mount. Hilarity, followed very quickly by fear and despair ensued.

dsmiles
2010-01-11, 11:29 AM
...No humanoid mates with a sheep...

I'll never believe this one...you've never been to West Virginia...

Kris Strife
2010-01-11, 11:39 AM
No, I think the moral of that story is that there's no weight limit on teleporting creatures as opposed to objects...

He still said they marched into town with the spider behind them.

hamishspence
2010-01-11, 11:42 AM
Marched through the town with the spider behind them-

but maybe Riding on a Huge metal creature with no saddle would be uncomfortable?

dsmiles
2010-01-11, 11:45 AM
Marched through the town with the spider behind them-

but maybe Riding on a Huge metal creature with no saddle would be uncomfortable?

...and cold...

Kris Strife
2010-01-11, 11:46 AM
Marched through the town with the spider behind them-

but maybe Riding on a Huge metal creature with no saddle would be uncomfortable?

They had a wizard and a cleric. How hard would it have been for them to magically create some kind of chair that was attatched to the top?

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-11, 11:46 AM
...and cold...

Heat Metal Spell?

hamishspence
2010-01-11, 11:47 AM
Subcategory of uncomfortable.

However not all player groups would care if it imposes no actual penalties.

Kris Strife
2010-01-11, 11:48 AM
Heat Metal Spell?

Heck, if it was sunny out, you don't even need that. Ever try going down a metal slide on a bright summers day while wearing shorts?

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-11, 11:54 AM
Heck, if it was sunny out, you don't even need that. Ever try going down a metal slide on a bright summers day while wearing shorts?

How much sun would it take to heat a 90 tonne gold spider to a comfortable temperature?

Of course you could always just cast Endure Elements on yourself and ignore this problem entirely.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-11, 11:59 AM
YAY! Cross thread quoting :smallbiggrin:

Although I acually made that quote from personal experience. It was a Half-Celestial Gelatinous Cube.

The DM's logic being that since Angels are filled with a deep compassion and love (despite my pleadings for sanity he decided it meant that kind of love) for all non-Evil creatures, and they are inherently immune to Acid damage, it's only a matter of time until some slightly odd Solar came along with a thing for semi-sentient goop.http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz327/funkygoose/image3600.png (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136627)

Zom B
2010-01-11, 12:03 PM
He still said they marched into town with the spider behind them.


Marched through the town with the spider behind them

This. They teleported to the town, but had to march through the town to find a buyer.

dsmiles
2010-01-11, 12:04 PM
Gaaaaahhhh!!!!must Stab Out Mind's Eye!!!!!!!!!

Blackfang108
2010-01-11, 12:04 PM
Not impractical when you have nigh unlimited access to slaves...

And it's even more practical to use ALL of your slaves to make money, instead of killing one each time you make a pit stop. It starts adding up.

Also, it's being fixed in shifts. It'll function as an airship soon. It won't function as a Spelljammer until level 25 or so.

Kris Strife
2010-01-11, 12:06 PM
This. They teleported to the town, but had to march through the town to find a buyer.

Still a waste of a gigantic, metallic spider under your control.

And why are we assuming that the spider was uncomfortably cold to the touch to begin with?

Xzeno
2010-01-11, 12:14 PM
you've never been to West Virginia...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Never been to- anyway, I meant in the creation of a half celestial.

dsmiles
2010-01-11, 12:14 PM
I think it's because metal is...well...you know...cold, unless it's been heated.

Kris Strife
2010-01-11, 02:33 PM
I think it's because metal is...well...you know...cold, unless it's been heated.

Why would it be any colder than the surrounding area, unless its been cooled?

Gamerlord
2010-01-11, 02:38 PM
heh, I once came across a vampire awakened tree.

Vampire GOBLIN.

I made one.
Slapped the vampire template on the standard goblin.


Yes I know it breaks the rules AND I DON'T FRIGGIN CARE!

Aldizog
2010-01-11, 02:41 PM
Why would it be any colder than the surrounding area, unless its been cooled?
Metal that differs from body temperature feels hotter or colder than other materials (such as wood) because it conducts heat better. So if the ambient temperature is 60F (15C), it will feel cold to the touch.

Incidentally, this is where "cold iron" comes from. Myths and stories created in the British Isles or Northern Europe, where iron normally feels cold to the touch, will use "cold iron" as just a poetic term for "iron." Nothing more is implied in the myths as far as I can tell.

Closak
2010-01-11, 02:43 PM
Half-dragon purple worm.

'Nugh said.


Dragons truly will breed with everything...

The Glyphstone
2010-01-11, 02:43 PM
Vampire GOBLIN.

I made one.
Slapped the vampire template on the standard goblin.


Yes I know it breaks the rules AND I DON'T FRIGGIN CARE!

Sounds perfectly legal to me. Goblins are humanoids, Vampires can be humanoids or monstrous humanoids. When a vampire blood drains someone to death, a creature of 4HD or less becomes a spawn, but that only matters if your Count Dracugoblin decided to try and vamp the rest of his tribe.

Gamerlord
2010-01-11, 02:45 PM
Sounds perfectly legal to me. Goblins are humanoids, Vampires can be humanoids or monstrous humanoids. When a vampire blood drains someone to death, a creature of 4HD or less becomes a spawn, but that only matters if your Count Dracugoblin decided to try and vamp the rest of his tribe.

Can't the vampire template only be applied to monsters of a certain HD?
I remember reading that in the MM...

dsmiles
2010-01-11, 02:47 PM
Incidentally, this is where "cold iron" comes from. Myths and stories created in the British Isles or Northern Europe, where iron normally feels cold to the touch, will use "cold iron" as just a poetic term for "iron." Nothing more is implied in the myths as far as I can tell.

Nice research on that one. I suspected as much, but was never certain. And as for why it hurts Fey more than steel (which was asked somewhere in another thread), is because it is firmly grounded in reality, and Fey come from another realm, correct?

Kobold-Bard
2010-01-11, 02:49 PM
Nice research on that one. I suspected as much, but was never certain. And as for why it hurts Fey more than steel (which was asked somewhere in another thread), is because it is firmly grounded in reality, and Fey come from another realm, correct?

It hurts Demons but not Devils, therefore it must be anti-Chaotic. And since Fey are inherently Chaotic it hurts them too. Maybe.

DragoonWraith
2010-01-11, 02:51 PM
Incidentally, this is where "cold iron" comes from. Myths and stories created in the British Isles or Northern Europe, where iron normally feels cold to the touch, will use "cold iron" as just a poetic term for "iron." Nothing more is implied in the myths as far as I can tell.
See, I've heard it referred to tempered steel, where the alloy is heated to very high temperatures (around 1800° F), and then quenched in icy water to drop its temperature very quickly, and then brought back up to somewhat lower temperatures (up to 500° F) to cause some of the brittle molecules in its structure to change into more durable ones, creating a stronger metal.

Aldizog
2010-01-11, 02:52 PM
Nice research on that one. I suspected as much, but was never certain. And as for why it hurts Fey more than steel (which was asked somewhere in another thread), is because it is firmly grounded in reality, and Fey come from another realm, correct?
That could be it, or it could be that iron is a symbol of man's mastery over and control of nature. Iron is the science of its day, and fey are the magic.

Outside of D&D, I've seen far more references to iron in general being a ward against fey trickery (horseshoes, nails, etc.) than of any particular form of iron.

Zom B
2010-01-11, 02:57 PM
Or it could be that iron represents unyielding strength better than steel, and thus represents the unyielding nature of law. Therefore, it harms creatures of chaos more effectively.

hamishspence
2010-01-11, 02:58 PM
Discworld has magnetized iron be even less friendly to the fey than normal iron.

Tackyhillbillu
2010-01-11, 06:46 PM
Nice research on that one. I suspected as much, but was never certain. And as for why it hurts Fey more than steel (which was asked somewhere in another thread), is because it is firmly grounded in reality, and Fey come from another realm, correct?

No, the belief was that Iron was the tool of mans dominion over the natural world. It is one of the few pieces of our world that appears to be friendly to human kind. Thusly, against the enemies of Human kind, it is a defense.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 06:56 PM
Subcategory of uncomfortable.

However not all player groups would care if it imposes no actual penalties.

I keep on using prestidigitation to clean and groom my character... other players for the life of them can't understand why I even bother


And it's even more practical to use ALL of your slaves to make money, instead of killing one each time you make a pit stop. It starts adding up.

Also, it's being fixed in shifts. It'll function as an airship soon. It won't function as a Spelljammer until level 25 or so.

what did I miss? I have no idea what you are talking about.


Why would it be any colder than the surrounding area, unless its been cooled?

Humans can only feel relative temperature change, Cold / Hot is the feeling you get when your body has its temperature altered. Room temperature is lower then body temperature, and gold highly heat conductive.
When you touch a block of wood, some water, or gold/steel, they are all the exact same temperature (room temp) which is lower then your body. Water feels colder then wood because it absorbs heat from your body faster, metal feels even colder. After a short period the metal will no longer feel cold, it is because your body heated it up to your body temperature. When you let go of it, it begins cooling again. The block of wood still feels neither cold nor hot, because it just doesn't transfer heat well...

Ash is a very good heat insulator, that is how people can walk on coals safely. A thermometer might show the coals are at 1400 degrees, but the ash is such a good insulator that you are not absorbing the heat, as a result, your proteins do not denature; molecules are not broken / formed, etc and you do not cook.

Thurbane
2010-01-11, 08:05 PM
I remember when I was playing in SGoS, the DM descibed most of the dungeon areas as having "heavy, solid copper doors". I think my Wizard's first question was:

"Copper? Wow - imagine what all these doors are worth!"

...I was already planning Tenser's Disk shennanigans to get them onto our wagon. :smallbiggrin:

taltamir
2010-01-11, 08:12 PM
I remember when I was playing in SGoS, the DM descibed most of the dungeon areas as having "heavy, solid copper doors". I think my Wizard's first question was:

"Copper? Wow - imagine how all these doors are worth!"

...I was already planning Tenser's Disk shennanigans to get them onto our wagon. :smallbiggrin:

well, really... who builds doors out of copper? its an expensive metal...

Sewblon
2010-01-11, 08:14 PM
Dragons can mate with anything, just about. I want a half-dragon half-beholder.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-11, 08:17 PM
well, really... who builds doors out of copper? its an expensive metal...

Ancient demonic forces, apparently, since they built Slaughtergarde.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 08:18 PM
Ancient demonic forces, apparently, since they built Slaughtergarde.

what is a Slaughtergarde?

nekomata2
2010-01-11, 08:20 PM
polymorph into a fire elemental and reproduce, you just got yourself some fire genasi children.

You skipped the half fire elemental generation, for which there is a template in Manual of the Planes...

Narazil
2010-01-11, 08:27 PM
My players are so guilty of this.
System's VtM - which I assume some don't know, so I'll keep it general.
Players were intercepting a delivery of guns for the BBEG. After a pretty rough fight, they'd killed 5 hencemen and an enemy Vampire - and lost a dear friend.
Roughly 5 nanoseconds after the last bad guy hits the street, the Malkavian player looks up on me and says "I start looting". One of the other players, a Nosferatu with 8-9 dots of Humanity (basicly means she has en extreme sense of moral) starts complaining, only to be convinced by the Malkavian that "dead guys don't need their stuff!"

5 Concience rolls from the Nosferatu later, they made off with 7 wallets, 3 sets of car keys, 7 guns, a truck full of weapons, a trenchcoat, a hat and a pair of pants.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 08:28 PM
the truck sounds like the most valuable item there...
wait... did they max out the credit cards? :)

Thurbane
2010-01-11, 08:29 PM
what is a Slaughtergarde?
The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde (http://dnd.wikia.com/wiki/The_Shattered_Gates_of_Slaughtergarde)

Narazil
2010-01-11, 08:31 PM
the truck sounds like the most valuable item there...
wait... did they max out the credit cards? :)
Not yet, but they did copy the enemy vampire's phonebook in case they're going rogue at some point..
Actually, that's more awesome than looting a truck of guns. Stealing phonenumbers.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-11, 08:31 PM
My players are so guilty of this.
System's VtM - which I assume some don't know, so I'll keep it general.
Players were intercepting a delivery of guns for the BBEG. After a pretty rough fight, they'd killed 5 hencemen and an enemy Vampire - and lost a dear friend.
Roughly 5 nanoseconds after the last bad guy hits the street, the Malkavian player looks up on me and says "I start looting". One of the other players, a Nosferatu with 8-9 dots of Humanity (basicly means she has en extreme sense of moral) starts complaining, only to be convinced by the Malkavian that "dead guys don't need their stuff!"

5 Concience rolls from the Nosferatu later, they made off with 7 wallets, 3 sets of car keys, 7 guns, a truck full of weapons, a trenchcoat, a hat and a pair of pants.

Your player's fail for not looking for gold tooth caps, replacement joints and pacemakers, and keeping a few coolers of ice handy for organ harvesting.

Narazil
2010-01-11, 08:38 PM
Your player's fail for not looking for gold tooth caps, replacement joints and pacemakers, and keeping a few coolers of ice handy for organ harvesting.
Point taken. After harvesting joints, pace makers and organs, they also could've sold the rest of the bodies to local Tzimisce or Giovanni - they love the dead, if you know what I mean. :smallwink:

Reltzik
2010-01-11, 08:49 PM
For the record?

You can make a half-dragon dragon. While this sounds silly, it makes a certain amount of sense for dragons that mate with other breeds of dragon.

The effects of applying the half-dragon template to a dragon are:

Adds a second flight speed, twice the land movement speed, at medium maneuverability. For most age classes of dragon this will be slower but more maneuverable.

Improve natural armor by +4.

+8 str, +2 con, +2 int, +2 cha

A 6d8 breath weapon appropriate to the template's type (30ft cone or 60ft line), once per day, save DC about (I think always?) the same as its normal breath weapon.

Immunity to said breath weapon's energy type.

3 more (creature) levels' worth of skill points.

Environment may change to template type's.

Allignment AS THE TEMPLATE. The (supposedly) red dragon can be good, if a silver dragon's template is applied.

Add +2 to CR.

No, this isn't how the template was meant to be used. Yet, this doesn't seem PARTICULARLY unbalanced. Yes, +8 str is overkill... but overkill's what dragons are about anyway. It'd be fun to watch players' confusion when the (supposedly) red dragon spits ice and proves immune to cold.

More interesting is the backstory elements implied here. Where do hybrids fit into dragon society? Are they pariahs? Too powerful to be trusted? They obviously have minor and major parents (minor is the template, major is base type); for example, the red/silver hybrid can breathe fire every d4 rounds but cold only once per day. Yet the silver's allignment is dominant; this implies both an interesting psychological or spiritual duality, and friction with fellow dragons if the minor parent's allignment differs greatly from the major's.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 08:53 PM
Your player's fail for not looking for gold tooth caps, replacement joints and pacemakers, and keeping a few coolers of ice handy for organ harvesting.

I literally choke on a glass of water while reading this sentence... you my friend, are a true mercenary and my new idol.


For the record?

You can make a half-dragon dragon. While this sounds silly, it makes a certain amount of sense for dragons that mate with other breeds of dragon.

you know, for beings that mate with everyTHING, they somehow manage not to mate with other races of dragons...

mikej
2010-01-11, 09:24 PM
Half-Dragon Gelatinous Cube!

It reminded me of the Apple Pie scene from "American Pie."

taltamir
2010-01-11, 09:29 PM
Half-Dragon Gelatinous Cube!

It reminded me of the Apple Pie scene from "American Pie."

half dragon animated pie.

Gamerlord
2010-01-11, 09:31 PM
you know, for beings that mate with everyTHING, they somehow manage not to mate with other races of dragons...

They technically can.

Dragero
2010-01-11, 09:43 PM
Ever seen Shrek?

HA!!! Totaly forgot about that!

Wait....what about a half dragon cat?

"OHHH your sooo cute"
::belch::
"GAHH I`m on fire!!"

taltamir
2010-01-11, 09:46 PM
They technically can.

so, do you get a half dragon dragon then? or what? random colored dragon (that will be a problem since dragons are born with their alignment and are color coded for your convenience) A good dragon laying bad dragons and vice versa... lovely.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-11, 09:48 PM
For the record?

You can make a half-dragon dragon. While this sounds silly, it makes a certain amount of sense for dragons that mate with other breeds of dragon.

The effects of applying the half-dragon template to a dragon are:
...


Did you miss this post?

mikej
2010-01-11, 09:51 PM
half dragon animated pie.

I'am at a lose for words :smalleek:

Ravens_cry
2010-01-11, 09:54 PM
I'am at a lost for words :smalleek:
On the plus side, it's self baking.

Drakevarg
2010-01-11, 09:54 PM
BTW, did you know that elementals are living creatures? they don't live a corpse but they ARE alive... this btw means that you can use one of the "living to undead without ever being dead" methods to make an undead elemental in theory.

Sorry to dig a post up from page one, but... nevermind, no I'm not.

This is called a Necromental. From Libris Mortis.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 09:59 PM
Did you miss this post?

I didn't miss it, I just don't think its right... otherwise every hybrid dragon would be significantly more powerful then full dragon, and statistically, you should only have hybrid dragons then...


I'am at a lose for words :smalleek:

thank you, thank you.


On the plus side, it's self baking.

lol


Sorry to dig a post up from page one, but... nevermind, no I'm not.

This is called a Necromental. From Libris Mortis.

Nice, I didn't know it was available there, I just figured it out that its doable due to them being alive and all

blackmage795
2010-01-11, 10:03 PM
I didn't miss it, I just don't think its right... otherwise every hybrid dragon would be significantly more powerful then full dragon, and statistically, you should only have hybrid dragons then...

its the same with Saiyans

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-11, 10:04 PM
Some form of sterility might enforce the rarity of half-dragon dragons.

taltamir
2010-01-11, 10:11 PM
its the same with Saiyans

lol, no with saiyans its just a case of "lamark was right"
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LamarckWasRight

notice that with the same father and mother (goku + chichi), each child is born with a power Dependant on the power and training of their father at the time of conception. Same with other couples... each of those children was born with more power then ever existed in the history of sanjians but only because of their father's power level at the time of conception.

Which, will be hillarious in DnD world... you are born with levels based on your parent's level at time of conception :)

KitsuneKionchi
2010-01-11, 10:29 PM
I had the PCs go through a simple dungeon where each room was another encounter. They went up to a shark tank, laughing that it'd be like "shooting fish in a barrel". Then the sharks flew out of the tank and started breathing fire.

Half-Dragon Sharks have forever plagued my campaigns as the running joke whenever a PC gets near water. All my PCs now check the toilet before sitting down too...

BRC
2010-01-11, 10:30 PM
I'm considering giving one my PC's a half dragon puppy animal companion.

Basically it just means he can use the breath weapon once a day, since David Barkowitz will be more or less useless in combat, but it would be nifty.

Touchy
2010-01-11, 10:57 PM
For 4e isn't there half-dragon templates in the Dragonomicons?

Zaq
2010-01-11, 11:10 PM
For the record?

You can make a half-dragon dragon. While this sounds silly, it makes a certain amount of sense for dragons that mate with other breeds of dragon.

The effects of applying the half-dragon template to a dragon are:

Adds a second flight speed, twice the land movement speed, at medium maneuverability. For most age classes of dragon this will be slower but more maneuverable.

Improve natural armor by +4.

+8 str, +2 con, +2 int, +2 cha

A 6d8 breath weapon appropriate to the template's type (30ft cone or 60ft line), once per day, save DC about (I think always?) the same as its normal breath weapon.

Immunity to said breath weapon's energy type.

3 more (creature) levels' worth of skill points.

Environment may change to template type's.

Allignment AS THE TEMPLATE. The (supposedly) red dragon can be good, if a silver dragon's template is applied.

Add +2 to CR.

No, this isn't how the template was meant to be used. Yet, this doesn't seem PARTICULARLY unbalanced. Yes, +8 str is overkill... but overkill's what dragons are about anyway. It'd be fun to watch players' confusion when the (supposedly) red dragon spits ice and proves immune to cold.

More interesting is the backstory elements implied here. Where do hybrids fit into dragon society? Are they pariahs? Too powerful to be trusted? They obviously have minor and major parents (minor is the template, major is base type); for example, the red/silver hybrid can breathe fire every d4 rounds but cold only once per day. Yet the silver's allignment is dominant; this implies both an interesting psychological or spiritual duality, and friction with fellow dragons if the minor parent's allignment differs greatly from the major's.

I'll go you one better. You can also stack on templates of the original type. Which means that you can have a half-red-dragon red dragon, who is more powerful as a result of its draconic heritage.

And, you can stack on the same template more than once, due to the amazingly open way in which half-dragon is worded. So you can have a half-red-dragon, half-red-dragon green dragon. Or a half-red-dragon, half-red-dragon, half-red-dragon red dragon.

I hate dragons in general, but the silliness that the half-dragon template provides makes me forgive them just for this.

After they're done screwing and breeding, though, we go back to hatred. So it goes.

2xMachina
2010-01-12, 02:22 AM
Isn't the same template only added once? (some have exceptions written in).

Anyway, a Half dragon dragon ought to have 2 half dragon templates at least.

Half white, half red, red dragon for a dragon with red and white parents. And if they breed with a half gold, half silver gold dragon, we get 4 templates....

Hmm, maybe there should be a wizard project to make tons of these things. On hatching, they have loads of LA.

Nate the Snake
2010-01-12, 03:26 AM
For 4e isn't there half-dragon templates in the Dragonomicons?

There's a draconic template in the Chromatic Draconomicon. It grants a breath weapon, resist 5 energy, and a fly speed. So a 4.0 draconic creature is sort of between a 3.5 draconic creature and a 3.5 half-dragon.

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 05:07 AM
My players are so guilty of this.
System's VtM - which I assume some don't know, so I'll keep it general.
Players were intercepting a delivery of guns for the BBEG. After a pretty rough fight, they'd killed 5 hencemen and an enemy Vampire - and lost a dear friend.
Roughly 5 nanoseconds after the last bad guy hits the street, the Malkavian player looks up on me and says "I start looting". One of the other players, a Nosferatu with 8-9 dots of Humanity (basicly means she has en extreme sense of moral) starts complaining, only to be convinced by the Malkavian that "dead guys don't need their stuff!"

5 Concience rolls from the Nosferatu later, they made off with 7 wallets, 3 sets of car keys, 7 guns, a truck full of weapons, a trenchcoat, a hat and a pair of pants.
What?

5 Concience rolls from the Nosferatu later, they made off with 7 wallets, 3 sets of car keys, 7 guns, a truck full of weapons, a trenchcoat, a hat and a pair of pants.
Huh?

...a pair of pants.
What?Why?I mean...seriously?

Sliver
2010-01-12, 05:21 AM
I wonder what kind of player I am..

In one game, which I won't say what I was playing (and wanted to play, but DM said I can't*) we opened a door and found a room with a pile of skulls. The paladin player wanted to check the skulls for loot, which I told him was disrespectful to the dead and he shouldn't do it, and no one would leave loot with a pile of skulls..

*FINE! It was a monk, and I wanted to take VoP for him.. But it was level 1 and the bonuses were far better then whatever I couldn't by at that level.. So the DM said no.. In my defense, he made me auto-lose initiative because I was looking at the fire where there was a goblin when the paladin won initiative because he wasn't looking over there.. And the DM wanted me to roll for DD when I wanted to wipe off contact poison from a door handle.. :smalltongue:

hamishspence
2010-01-12, 05:25 AM
There's a draconic template in the Chromatic Draconomicon. It grants a breath weapon, resist 5 energy, and a fly speed. So a 4.0 draconic creature is sort of between a 3.5 draconic creature and a 3.5 half-dragon.

The "polychromatic" rules could be used to represent dragons with a strong dose of some other bloodline.

While it suggests hybrids should have all the traits of only one parent (even if the appearance can be that of the other parent, or combining bits of both) I'd say Polychromatic helps to emphasise that it's a mixed-breed dragon.

Theodoric
2010-01-12, 05:47 AM
While it suggests hybrids should have all the traits of only one parent (even if the appearance can be that of the other parent, or combining bits of both) I'd say Polychromatic helps to emphasise that it's a mixed-breed dragon.
It's even mentioned that it's a good way to confuse players. 'If that's a white dragon, why the hell are my pants dissolving?!'

hamishspence
2010-01-12, 05:50 AM
Or alternatively, a "what is that?" reaction when a pink dragon with both horns and a head crest moves into sight.

Grifthin
2010-01-12, 06:06 AM
I sense that the BBEG they party was gonna fight has gone from Red to Half Dragon Dragon with both Red/black parents. Delicious.

hamishspence
2010-01-12, 06:14 AM
If they are playing 4E, they might actually be slightly happier- if the dragon turns out the be a black dragon in red dragon shape, it's weaker.

Unless they have overprepared for fire attacks, and thus have little in the way of anti-acid.

In 3.5 by contrast, it would be somewhat meaner than a normal dragon of its type.

Coidzor
2010-01-12, 06:14 AM
What?

Huh?

What?Why?I mean...seriously?
They were very comfortable pants. So comfortable, even undead want their buns in 'em.

Shademan
2010-01-12, 06:17 AM
In one of my two fleshed out, self made settings the Ruler of those lands over there (I won't bore you with details) ride on hos half-black dragon half-red dragon mount. Not as much breeding as profane ritual of blood and hatres to fuse the two dragon kings (each colour or metal dragon race has a king)
needless to say, he's breath attack is AWESOME. 14d4 acid and 12d10 fire.
he has the CR of a great wyrm.

hamishspence
2010-01-12, 06:21 AM
Breath Weapon Admixture (Draconomicon, Spell Compendium) can do something similar, if the dragon takes it for a sorcerer spell.

starwoof
2010-01-12, 06:56 AM
One time I was playing a character with some obscene strength score. We found a giant stone throne that I insisted upon looting.

Me: Wow! A throne! Dibbs!
DM: You can't take it.
Me: Well how heavy is it?
DM: 2000 pounds! (confident that I can't lift that)
ME: *checks* Actually that's well within what I can drag. I do that.
DM: *Facepalm*

It actually came in handy later! I used it as cover...



My group considers me the King of Loot Everything.:smallbiggrin:

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 07:24 AM
One time I was playing a character with some obscene strength score. We found a giant stone throne that I insisted upon looting.

Me: Wow! A throne! Dibbs!
DM: You can't take it.
Me: Well how heavy is it?
DM: 2000 pounds! (confident that I can't lift that)
ME: *checks* Actually that's well within what I can drag. I do that.
DM: *Facepalm*

It actually came in handy later! I used it as cover...



My group considers me the King of Loot Everything.:smallbiggrin:

On that note, I had a party (I was the DM) drag around a marble sarcophagus...so they had someplace to store their treasure! It was actually a good idea. During combat all they had to do is stop dragging it, and no one was at more than a light load (except the fighter in full plate).

starwoof
2010-01-12, 07:28 AM
On that note, I had a party (I was the DM) drag around a marble sarcophagus...so they had someplace to store their treasure! It was actually a good idea. During combat all they had to do is stop dragging it, and no one was at more than a light load (except the fighter in full plate).

Thats brilliant! I would have made it out of lead so that nobody could scry it though. Or something. It would make sense to me as a player at the time, even if it is stupid as hell and not supported by the rules as far as I know.:smallbiggrin:

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 07:35 AM
Thats brilliant! I would have made it out of lead so that nobody could scry it though. Or something. It would make sense to me as a player at the time, even if it is stupid as hell and not supported by the rules as far as I know.:smallbiggrin:

The thing is, they found this in a dungeon...it originally had a mummy in it. They weren't supposed to drag it around it was just part of the scenery...

starwoof
2010-01-12, 07:36 AM
If it's good enough for a mummy, it's good enough for my extra Sword of Mummy-Decapitation. Awesome.

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 07:39 AM
They weren't supposed to drag it around it was just part of the scenery...


...it was just part of the scenery...


...scenery...

It's like dragging around a random door!!!

:smalleek:

pasko77
2010-01-12, 08:29 AM
They were very comfortable pants. So comfortable, even undead want their buns in 'em.

Don't tell me. I had to DM this scene:
ME: you enter the necromancer lair. There is a door on the right.
PC: I enter.
ME: you see a bed, a library and a wardrobe.
PC: i search in the wardrobe.
ME: ehm... not in the library?
PC: no, in the wardrobe.
ME: (sigh) you find some laudry and assorted clothes.
PC: I wear some underpants over my head.
ME: ... fine. The necromancer enters the room saying: "who dares ent... hey my pants!"

Xenogears
2010-01-12, 09:00 AM
To be fair Half-Fiend can be added to Balors and Half-Celestial can be added to Solars.

Or a half-celestial Fire Elemental...

Or a Half-Celestial Winter Wolf...

You know for paragons of all that is good and pure Celestials are into some really wierd stuff...

hamishspence
2010-01-12, 09:03 AM
Isn't there a rule that Half-Celestial cannot be added to a creature with base Evil alignment- like Winter Wolves?

Oslecamo
2010-01-12, 09:11 AM
You know for paragons of all that is good and pure Celestials are into some really wierd stuff...

Book of exalted deeds states that as long as both sides enjoy it, it's a perfectly good act. Heck, there's even a good aligned deity of "satisfaction" in there, preaching that message!

Xenogears
2010-01-12, 09:25 AM
Isn't there a rule that Half-Celestial cannot be added to a creature with base Evil alignment- like Winter Wolves?

Winter wolves are only "Usually evil" so a nuetral or good aligned winter wolf is possible and could be the non-celestial parent.

Edit: Apparently Shambling Mounds are intelligent enough to qualify as a base creature. So a glowing ball of light can get it on with a pile of rotten plant matter and create a creature out of it...

hamishspence
2010-01-12, 09:34 AM
Seems reasonable.

I think there was a piece on the WoTC site that suggested some things, while theoretically not possible by the rules, are still feasible in the game- hence, occasionally the rules can be waived.

Like half-celestial fiends. Or vice versa.

Kris Strife
2010-01-12, 09:36 AM
Like half-celestial fiends. Or vice versa.

So, the succubus paladin finally managed to hook up with that angel?

Xenogears
2010-01-12, 09:38 AM
So, the succubus paladin finally managed to hook up with that angel?

That poor succubus Paladin. She can be hit with ANY alignment based spell...

hamishspence
2010-01-12, 09:39 AM
The main character in the webcomic Anti-Heroes is part fiend, part celestial- so the notion has merit.

There's a ritual for adding alignment subtypes to creatures (Savage Species). If the creature has a subtype, adding the opposite subtype removes the original one.

Said ritual is a bit risky for the creature undergoing it, if it has the opposite alignment- if it fails a Will save, it dies.

Kris Strife
2010-01-12, 09:41 AM
That poor succubus Paladin. She can be hit with ANY alignment based spell...

I think she can also use any alignment restricted magic item with out penalty.

hamishspence
2010-01-12, 09:43 AM
I thought she was stuck with the penalty for all aligned weapons?

Kris Strife
2010-01-12, 09:47 AM
Then shouldn't she also get a free pass from all alignment based spells? If she counts as 'not the correct alignment' for weapons, why doesn't the same apply to the Protection from X spells?

Serpentine
2010-01-12, 09:53 AM
It's like dragging around a random door!!!

:smalleek:*raises hand*
You know in Labyrinth, how Hoggle opens a door and finds a closet, then opens it the other way and reveals a passage? Well, I did that (except instead of a closet, it was a trap or something). The Rogue decided to take the door. It wasn't actually the door that was magical, but the door-doorway combination.
As it turned out, he used some cool points* to actually make it magical, a passwall sort of item. But still...


I've literally lolled at some of these posts :smallbiggrin: Gonna have to go back and read through it properly.

*I give out points for cooperation, planning, creative use of spells and skills, and exceptional roleplay. They can be exchanged for items (1 point ~= 1000gp), plot points and similar. If he'd exchanged enough, he could've made it a portable Gate.

hamishspence
2010-01-12, 09:53 AM
Either way could work- the spells penalize you based on alignment, subtype, or both, if they don't match.

But how do the weapons work?

I think Bane weapons are specified as being based on alignment, but don't specify subtype "Evil outsider" rather than "outsider with evil subtype" hence a Good Outsider Bane weapon would work on her, and if a Fiercebane weapon, would glow in her presence. (Fiercebane being an upgrade to Bane, that allows you to create a D&D equivalent of Sting in LoTR).

Maybe Anarchic, Axiomatic, etc. weapons work in a similar way- being based on alignment, rather than "alignment subtype"

If the spells penalize you for having an alignment (or subtype) but the items penalize you for not having an alignment (or subtype) then the spells would always penalize her, but the aligned items never would.

Kris Strife
2010-01-12, 10:06 AM
I was refering more to specific magical items and artifacts, like the Book of Exalted Deeds.

Lycanthromancer
2010-01-12, 10:09 AM
I would say such spells and items would do whatever is most beneficial to the wielder. Thus, the succubus paladin would be able to wield a +1 holy avenger chaotic outsider bane katana in one hand and a +1 lawful outsider bane wakizashi in the other without penalty, but someone else striking her with either weapon would cause some serious hurt.

Likewise, she would be the victim of both dictum and word of chaos if cast against her, and she could cast either without harm.

hamishspence
2010-01-12, 10:11 AM
I suspect that some such items. might end up treating you as having "whatever is worst"

So if you are a Good guy with the Evil subtype, you will be hit very hard by it- if it says "if you are evil- lose lots of XP and make a Will save or die"

But if the items says "if you are not lawful good, take 3 negative levels", and you are lawful good, the fact that you have the Chaotic and Evil subtypes as well is irrelevant.

Technically anyone could end up in this position, not just the succubus- a Lawful Good guy who takes the Chaos and Evil rituals from Savage Species, and not only survives, but passes both saves by 5 or more, will still be Lawful Good, even if he now has the opposite subtypes.

PhoenixRivers
2010-01-12, 10:18 AM
I would say such spells and items would do whatever is most beneficial to the wielder. Thus, the succubus paladin would be able to wield a +1 holy avenger chaotic outsider bane katana in one hand and a +1 lawful outsider bane wakizashi in the other without penalty, but someone else striking her with either weapon would cause some serious hurt.

Likewise, she would be the victim of both dictum and word of chaos if cast against her, and she could cast either without harm.

Actually, those spells wouldn't do anything. They look for "nongood", "nonlawful", "nonevil", and "nonchaotic".

You are lawful and chaotic, so you'd be immune to both. However, A spell that says "any creature takes 5d6 damage. Evil creatures take 10d6 damage" would deal 10d6, because you are evil, even if you're also good.

Narazil
2010-01-12, 10:18 AM
So, after a single session with my Malkavian, he stole a finger from a Tremere (think Wizard). His reasoning? "It pointed at me and fancy lights flew out of it! I want one!" (the finger, not the Tremere)

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 10:20 AM
I give out points for cooperation, planning, creative use of spells and skills, and exceptional roleplay. They can be exchanged for items (1 point ~= 1000gp), plot points and similar. If he'd exchanged enough, he could've made it a portable Gate.

I give out points too...they're called RPs (Roleplaying Points) for pretty much the same things. They can only be used towards experience though. 1RP = 10% bonus XP for the session. If you use 2RP that session, it's not 20% it's take 10% of your session XP, total it, then 10% of that total, and total it. (100XP +1RP (10XP) = 110XP. 100XP + 1RP (10XP) = 110XP + 1RP (11XP) = 121XP.) So it makes sense to save them up for a big XP session, but you have to be careful. If you don't use them before you gain a level, you lose them, and you can only use a maximum of 3 per session (you can earn as many as I feel like giving, but each successive RP a single player earns requires a more spectacular achievement). I think the mose I've ever given out to a single player in a session was 3. Given the self-correcting nature of the 3.x experience point system, this wasn't a big problem, and everybody enjoyed trying to "beat the DM" to get RPs.

I also have the "Grace of God" Pool. Each session starts with (a secret roll of) 1d4 GoG Pool points, and the group can invoke the "Grace of God" if they all agree on it. Grace of God can do anything short of reversing a TPK (if everybody is already dead, there's no one to call on the gods for help). Again, they must be careful, for the Gods have little patience with whiny mortals. If they try to use the GoG Pool when they have 0 GoG points remaining...MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! They invoke the WRATH OF GOD instead. Again, this can do anything up to, but not including, a TPK. I got this from HOL. You should read it sometime...:smalleek:

Serpentine
2010-01-12, 10:30 AM
I just throw in roleplaying experience. The points are mostly aimed at encouraging exciting gameplay through tangible rewards. The "roleplay" part is more, for example, roleplaying to your disadvantage, rather than ordinary expected roleplay.

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 10:41 AM
Oh, no, these points aren't for ordinary, expected roleplay. You have to do something pretty spectacular to get them, since I run high-RP, low-combat games to begin with.

As a for instance (and this actually happened in a 3.5 game), the party fights something (not a BBEG, just a Lovecraftian nightmare of some sort) that is somehow immune to spells, and their "to hit" rolls and damage rolls are exceptionally craptastic today (they were supposed to melee it to death, their fighters hadn't seen much action lately). The wizard finds a way to use the spells he has prepared (I don't remember exactly what the spells were, this was a long time ago) to make the entire room attack it. Not literally, but he set some stuff on fire (once the effect expires, the fire is non-magical), I think he stoneshaped the floor around this things feet, it got a save, but wasn't immune due to the whole stoneshaping the floor thing, and a bunch of other stuff. He saved the entire party from a TPK because of craptastic rolls, and got one RP. He (the player, not the character) got up and danced around the room for, like, 10 minutes he was so happy to get an RP. Like I said, for my players, it's all about "beating the DM."

Serpentine
2010-01-12, 11:01 AM
Heh, that's pretty cool. Yeah, that's the sort of thing I've been trying to encourage. Limited success so far :smallsigh: (my two best players in this regard (alrigh, any, really) left for dramatic reasons =/)

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 11:06 AM
Ragequitters, eh?

Serpentine
2010-01-12, 11:08 AM
No, we-broke-up-after-4-years-then-they-got-together-2-weeks-later mutualquitters :smalltongue:

<.<

So, how about dem randy dragons, eh?

Leon
2010-01-12, 11:11 AM
Heck, there's even a good aligned deity of "satisfaction" in there, preaching that message!

Benny Benassi?

Oslecamo
2010-01-12, 11:32 AM
Benny Benassi?

Lastai, goddess of love, pleasure and passion.

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 11:33 AM
Benny Benassi?

No, Jenny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axLRUszuu9I)...:smallwink:

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 11:36 AM
So, how about dem randy dragons, eh?

Randy? That may be the understatement of the year.

Just out of curiosity, how do Nagas mate, and how did you blow yourself up, Serp?

Maybe some rules for half-nagas?

Tanuki Tales
2010-01-12, 11:56 AM
Randy? That may be the understatement of the year.

Just out of curiosity, how do Nagas mate, and how did you blow yourself up, Serp?

Maybe some rules for half-nagas?

Sthein. Bastards and Bloodlines, Page 50.

taltamir
2010-01-12, 12:16 PM
But if the items says "if you are not lawful good, take 3 negative levels", and you are lawful good, the fact that you have the Chaotic and Evil subtypes as well is irrelevant.

however, those items typically say the following:
If you are good you can wield the item safely with no ill effects.
If you are neutral you take 1 negative level.
If you are evil you take 3 negative levels...

For you being good, it doesn't matter that you are also bad, for you being bad it doesn't matter you are also good...
So you can wield it safely with no ill effect while taking negative levels. it is a contradiction.

Finally it makes sense, the gods of good don't reject her because they are shallow and mean, they reject her because her mere existence can BSOD the universe if she ever touches such a weapon.

Lycanthromancer
2010-01-12, 12:43 PM
Maybe some rules for half-nagas?That's where bone nagas come in.

hamishspence
2010-01-12, 12:58 PM
however, those items typically say the following:
If you are good you can wield the item safely with no ill effects.
If you are neutral you take 1 negative level.
If you are evil you take 3 negative levels...

For you being good, it doesn't matter that you are also bad, for you being bad it doesn't matter you are also good...
So you can wield it safely with no ill effect while taking negative levels. it is a contradiction.


I checked. It generally doesn't say that.

DMG:
Unholy weapon: just "Bestows one negative level on any good creature attempting to wield it"

Intelligent item "Any character whose alignment does not correspond to to that of the weapon (except as noted below) gains one negative level" (later it specifies for higher Egos, more negative levels are bestowed"

Nothing says "can wield it safely if of X alignment"

probably trickiest are the Book of Exalted Deeds and Book of Vile Darkness- if the character has divine caster levels, they might be simultaneously treated as a Good Divine Spellcaster and an Evil Divine Spellcaster-

getting both the +1 bonus and the +1 "experience level",
and taking the XP penalties, and the saves against death, confusion, insanity, for the BOVD.

Theodoric
2010-01-12, 01:04 PM
For 4e isn't there half-dragon templates in the Dragonomicons?
Just to add to this: It's possible, after turning a Dragon into a weaker Elite Dragon (using Draconomicon 2 rules), to turn that dragon into a draconic version of itself by adding an extra template to it (and the usual 2 templates extra HP stuff). Draconic Elite Dragons for the win. :smallcool:

Closak
2010-01-12, 01:21 PM
Randy? That may be the understatement of the year.

Just out of curiosity, how do Nagas mate, and how did you blow yourself up, Serp?

Maybe some rules for half-nagas?

Serpentine is not a naga.
Serpentine is something else...And also SCIENCE!

Though i have to say, naga or not, Snake-people are hawt *Get's dragged away by "Weird fetish control INC"*
AHHH!!! NOT ARKHAM ASYLUM!

nekomata2
2010-01-12, 01:28 PM
Though i have to say, naga or not, Snake-people are hawt *Get's dragged away by "Weird fetish control INC"*
AHHH!!! NOT ARKHAM ASYLUM!

Thats not too bad, you can escape in 2 days or less.

pffh
2010-01-12, 01:31 PM
That's where bone nagas come in.

Do they bone nagas?

Now excuse me while I go and kill myself for that.

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 01:36 PM
Do they bone nagas?

Now excuse me while I go and kill myself for that.

Probably a good idea. The killing, not the boning, that is...

Closak
2010-01-12, 01:38 PM
Do they bone nagas?

Now excuse me while I go and kill myself for that.

Of course they do, have you seen what a Naga looks like?
Everyone wants a piece of Naga. :smalltongue:

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 01:41 PM
probably trickiest are the Book of Exalted Deeds and Book of Vile Darkness- if the character has divine caster levels, they might be simultaneously treated as a Good Divine Spellcaster and an Evil Divine Spellcaster-

getting both the +1 bonus and the +1 "experience level",
and taking the XP penalties, and the saves against death, confusion, insanity, for the BOVD.

I think I'd have to rule that she is Neutral on the Good/Evil axis for item usage.

Gamerlord
2010-01-12, 02:24 PM
In theory, how powerful would a gold dragon/red dragon crossbreed be? Capable of destroying nations? Worlds? The tippyverse? PUN-PUN?!

Closak
2010-01-12, 02:48 PM
But could it destroy DESTRUCTION ITSELF

Also known as "The End Of Everything Made Manifest"
Also known as "The biggest damned Elder Evil i have ever seen"

Poor dragon :smallfrown:
It got owned by the reality destroying monstrosity.


Also, i just saw a half-dragon blue whale.
And a half-dragon naga...

Frikkin dragons will breed with everything that moves (And some things that don't move to)

Lioness
2010-01-12, 04:56 PM
I laugh at how yesterday I was thinking that this was so far off topic. And I come back and the topic title has been changed.

All so you can talk about randy dragons ^_^

NeoVid
2010-01-12, 05:17 PM
Dragons can mate with anything, just about.

Half-Dragon can be applied to any "living, corporeal creature."

So somewhere, there's a half-dragon gelatinous cube.

jokey665
2010-01-12, 05:20 PM
Half-Dragon can be applied to any "living, corporeal creature."

So somewhere, there's a half-dragon gelatinous cube.

Yeah I pointed out the possibility of a half-dragon ooze on the first page. :smalltongue:

Closak
2010-01-12, 05:22 PM
Say hello the the half-dragon blue whale.

And the half-dragon house cat.

And the half-dragon hydra.

And the half-dragon treant.

And the half-dragon elemental.

And the half-dragon rat.

And the half-dragon cow

And the half-dragon naga


Yeah, dragons are horny bastards who will hump anything that moves.
This results in a whole lot of half-dragons running around.

Gamerlord
2010-01-12, 05:26 PM
Speaking of half-breeds, how on earth does any D&D human have pure human blood, there are so many half-somethings?

That would be a fun campaign come to think of it, no humanoid is pure-blooded, and is always some form of crossbreed.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-12, 05:31 PM
Half-Horse Donkeys are sterile. Half-Lion Tigers and Half-Tiger Lions are generally sterile. The other halfbreeds...

*shrug*

Tanuki Tales
2010-01-12, 05:32 PM
Half-Horse Donkeys are sterile. Half-Lion Tigers and Half-Tiger Lions are generally sterile. The other halfbreeds...

*shrug*

If there's a Wizard, there's a way.

Closak
2010-01-12, 05:32 PM
Funny thing about half-dragon offspring.

They are still fertile.

So they could go on to have one-quarter-dragon offspring themselves.

Starbuck_II
2010-01-12, 05:53 PM
Half-Horse Donkeys are sterile. Half-Lion Tigers and Half-Tiger Lions are generally sterile. The other halfbreeds...

*shrug*

No I think 1/2 tiger Lions (Ligers) are fertile, but 1/2 lion tiger (tigons) are sterile. Wikipdia even has examples.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-12, 06:00 PM
Wikipedia says that female ligons are generally fertile. Hm, so that "generally" in my post really ought to have been "occasionally". The point is that if uncommon bastard races seem powerful enough that they should have dominated the gene pool, nerf their reproductive capacity. Doesn't have to be sterility, could just be impotence. :P

Shademan
2010-01-12, 06:07 PM
gibbering mouther?
daaayum thats alot of fire-breath!

rat swarm?

ash rat?

ASH RAT SWARM!

I was gonna say scorpionman but that would actually be kinda awesome...

also: boggle!

taltamir
2010-01-12, 07:44 PM
No I think 1/2 tiger Lions (Ligers) are fertile, but 1/2 lion tiger (tigons) are sterile. Wikipdia even has examples.

well... most are sterile but there has been one exception thus far. it was originally believed that they are all sterile until suddenly one got preggers...
lions and tigers are really exactly on the border between species.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-12, 07:48 PM
I don't remember who posted that a half white red dragon could only breath his cold breath weapon 1/day, but there is a feat in either RoTD or Draconomicon that convert it to every 1d4 rounds (I used on my hald shadow dragon warlock for negative levels galore)

Lycan 01
2010-01-12, 08:39 PM
Oh wait, I got one...

Half-Dragon Grue. :smallamused:

flabort
2010-01-12, 09:02 PM
I love how maturity is thrown out the window in these forums.

It's generally asumed by commoners that the reason you don't see many half breeds is because most races have a general objection to cross-species sex, or at least the result. FOR EXAMPLE, in the Dragonlance STORY books, Tanis half-elf is generally hated by both elves and humans for only being half of each.

Since many of you have objections to dragonlance though, I'll try to come up with another example.

Your a full blooded human.
Your whole town is populated by likewise full blooded humans.
A half-dragon comes to town.
Everyone and his grandmother's dog feels inferior (sp?) to the half-dragon.
Everyone hates half-dragon as result.
Town lynches half-dragon.

Or, replace "dragon" with Elf, kobold, horse, dwarf, halfling, bigfoot, chimp, angel, demon, pihranah, shark, octopus, ECT.

however, when a half-breed lives with the half of his lineage which is supperior to him, just look to Spock, in the new Star Trek movie.




BACK ON TOPIC, half-red dragon Lich Centaurs. Of course, the half-dragon happened before the Lich, unless that can be heireditary, too.

THERE's some brain bleach for ya'.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-12, 09:11 PM
Your a full blooded human.
Your whole town is populated by likewise full blooded humans.
A half-dragon comes to town.
Everyone and his grandmother's dog feels inferior (sp?) to the half-dragon.
Everyone hates half-dragon as result.
Town lynches half-dragon.

Or, replace "dragon" with piranha

But. But adding piranha makes everything better!
:frown:

Serpentine
2010-01-12, 09:32 PM
Serpentine is not a naga.
Serpentine is something else...And also SCIENCE!Thank you :smallsmile:

If you really wanna know, whatever Serpentine is doesn't have a cloaca but two distinct "holes", just both at the front. Undecided as of yet whether the male of the species has two willies, but there's sort of a groove on his front that it slots into, out of the way. That asplain it? :smalltongue:

By the way, lions and tigers aren't really "right on the border of species". They're still very distinct; they're unlikely to the point of impossibility to mate in the wild, much less successfully; and there are many other animals and plants where the boundary between species is far more blurred. It's just that, well, speciation isn't really so much a brick wall as an obstacle course.

Reltzik
2010-01-12, 09:37 PM
Possible reasons for the shortages of half-breed dragons:

1) Sterility.
2) Low fertility (but not infertility) between colors.
3) Social friction between colors.
4) Lack of physical attraction between colors.
5) Lack of interaction between colors, such as due to different preferred environments.
6) Hostility from nestmates can result in a hybrid being killed as a wyrmling.
7) Parents lack proper rearing instincts for hybrids. For example, let's say that dragons breathe on their eggs to nurture them. A hybrid might need two different types of dragon breath to mature properly.

Zaydos
2010-01-12, 09:41 PM
Possible reasons for the shortages of half-breed dragons:

1) Sterility.
2) Low fertility (but not infertility) between colors.
3) Social friction between colors.
4) Lack of physical attraction between colors.
5) Lack of interaction between colors, such as due to different preferred environments.
6) Hostility from nestmates can result in a hybrid being killed as a wyrmling.
7) Parents lack proper rearing instincts for hybrids. For example, let's say that dragons breathe on their eggs to nurture them. A hybrid might need two different types of dragon breath to mature properly.

I've always just cited 1-5, but 6 and 7 are good (especially since 3.X Draconomicon discusses the needs for certain temperatures and energy types for egg maturation).
So thumbs up.

Coidzor
2010-01-12, 10:02 PM
Wikipedia says that female ligons are generally fertile. Hm, so that "generally" in my post really ought to have been "occasionally". The point is that if uncommon bastard races seem powerful enough that they should have dominated the gene pool, nerf their reproductive capacity. Doesn't have to be sterility, could just be impotence. :P

<_< You've stumbled upon the secret behind elven and dwarven infertility! *le gasp*