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Master_Rahl22
2010-01-10, 09:56 PM
I'm building this character at level 5, and I've been wanting to try out a Crusader for a while. I'm wondering what the Playground thinks of my build, and have a few questions like what type of armor to wear and if there are any magic items that would help beyond the obvious Healing Belt, Ring of Protection, etc.

Stats were rolled, and I was lucky enough to get 17, 17, 17, 17, 16, 11. I figured something like Str (with level up), Dex, Con, Cha, Int, Wis since I'm not planning on RKV or any Cleric levels and I get Cha to Will saves anyway.

Here's the build I got from the ToB for Dummies thread on the Wizards forum:
Human Crusader 16 / Warblade 4 (Crusader 8 / Warblade 1 / Crusader +2 / Warblade +1 / Crusader +2 / Warblade +1 / Crusader +2 / Warblade +1 / Crusader +2)

Feats:
Human: Combat Reflexes
1: Stand Still
3: Extra Granted Maneuver
6: Stone Power (Martial Stance?)
9: Ironheart Aura
12: Stormguard Warrior
15: Robilar's Gambit
18: Defensive Sweep (PHB2)

Maneuvers
Maneuvers in Italics are later swapped out.

Crusader 1: Charging Minotaur (SD 1), Crusader's Strike (DS 1), Douse the Flames (WR 1), Leading the Attack (WR 1), Stone Bones (SD 1) + Martial Spirit (DS 1, Stance)
Crusader 2: Iron Guard's Glare (DS 1, Stance)
Crusader 3: Foehammer (DS 2)
Crusader 4: Swap Leading the Attack -> Battle Leader's Charge (WR 2)
Crusader 5: White Raven Tactics (WR 3)
Crusader 6: Swap Stone Bones -> Defensive Rebuke or Revitalising Strike (DS 3)
Crusader 7: Divine Surge (DS 4)
Crusader 8: Swap Charging Minotaur -> White Raven Strike (WR 4) + Thicket of Blades (DS 3. Stance)
Warblade 1: Iron Heart Surge (IH 3), Moment of Perfect Mind (DM 1), Wall of Blades (IH 2) + Punishing Stance (IH 1, Stance)
Crusader 9: Radiant Charge (DS 5)
Crusader 10: Swap Crusader's Strike -> Flanking Maneuver (WR 5)
Warblade 2: Lightning Recovery (IH 4)
Crusader 11: Order Forged From Chaos (WR 6)
Crusader 12: Swap Douse the Flames -> Rallying Strike (DS 6)
Warblade 3: Iron Heart Focus (IH 5)
Crusader 13: Clarion Call (WR 7)
Crusader 14: Swap Foehammer -> White Raven Hammer (WR 8) + Immortal Fortitude (DS 8, Stance)
Warblade 4: Dancing Blade Form (IH 5, Stance)
Crusader 15: Strike of Righteous Vitality (DS 9)
Crusader 16: Swap Battle Leader's Charge -> War Master's Charge (WR 9)


I'd really like to fit some more Diamond Mind maneuvers in there since it's my favorite discipline, namely Insightful Strike and the Sapphire/Ruby Nightmare Blade. Also, I don't really know anything about DS or WR maneuvers since I don't bother with WR as a Warblade and I've never played a Crusader, so if somebody could take a look at the maneuver progression that would be great.

My second question is about my feats. The DM has allowed one flaw, so I'm a feat ahead on those listed. I wondered whether it would be worthwhile to use my 6th level feat on Martial Stance to grab Thicket of Blades sooner. The main reason I'm not totally sold on it is that I can't find anything else I'd rather get for the stance gained at Crusader 8 without adding in those Warblade levels sooner to make Crusader 8 happen so that I can grab 5th level maneuvers with it and pick up Press the Advantage.

Finally, I'm at a loss over what kind of armor to wear. Full Plate gives me the best AC, though I have always had a problem with using armor that wastes a given characters Dex bonus. Mithral for anything but a Chain Shirt is cost prohibitive for level 5 WBL, or I'd consider that as well. Any other items that are great for a lockdown tank? Thanks in advance, I know there's a wall of text there.

Darrin
2010-01-10, 11:54 PM
Also, I don't really know anything about DS or WR maneuvers since I don't bother with WR as a Warblade and I've never played a Crusader, so if somebody could take a look at the maneuver progression that would be great.


I took a quick glance, but the maneuver progression looks just fine. Only one minor quibble... I'd probably take Lion's Roar (WR 3) over White Raven Strike (WR 4).



My second question is about my feats. The DM has allowed one flaw, so I'm a feat ahead on those listed. I wondered whether it would be worthwhile to use my 6th level feat on Martial Stance to grab Thicket of Blades sooner.


Yes, I would recommend this. You want Thicket of Blades ASAP. This build is primarily Crusader, you're going to have to spend a feat to pick up your best stances. That's just one of the quirks of Crusaders.



Finally, I'm at a loss over what kind of armor to wear. Full Plate gives me the best AC, though I have always had a problem with using armor that wastes a given characters Dex bonus. Mithral for anything but a Chain Shirt is cost prohibitive for level 5 WBL, or I'd consider that as well. Any other items that are great for a lockdown tank? Thanks in advance, I know there's a wall of text there.

Hmm. A few things to consider. First, you can improve the Dex bonus on the full plate a little bit by making it out of Chitin (using the Races of the Dragon rules for Chitin... Eberron/Faerun have different versions of chitin). This isn't cheap, though... costs double the masterwork cost, so about 3300 GP, at which point you may be better off saving your pennies for a mithril.

Second, consider Chain shirt + Chahar-Aina + Dastana + your Dex bonus will give you about the same AC as Full Plate (4 + 1 + 1 + 3 = +9 AC bonus total). Chahar-Aina and Dastana are from Oriental Adventures, but you'll want to clear those with your DM. They both provide a +1 armor bonus that stacks with your existing armor and shield bonuses. On top of that, you can add a heavy shield for another +2 shield bonus.

Finally, the Crusader is one of the few classes that is proficient with Tower Shields. The rules in Races of Stone allow you to swap this proficiency for another exotic shield proficiency. Consider picking up an Extreme Shield for a +3 shield bonus. You would lose the ability to make shield bash attacks, though.

Master_Rahl22
2010-01-11, 12:43 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't see where giving allies +5 damage for a turn only when I kill something is better than 4d6 extra damage and the enemy is flat-footed for a turn any time I use White Raven Strike. Is there something I'm missing here?

I agree that I'd really like Thicket of Blades sooner than 8. I suppose I'll re-shuffle the Warblade levels a bit so Crusader 8 comes after 2 of them so I can grab Press the Advantage with it.

Thanks for the tip on chitin armor. I think I may actually go with a chitin breastplate since it's a) much cheaper than chitin fullplate for only 2 less AC and b) it will give me room to grow if I choose to put my next level up stat boost in Dex. I'll ask about the OA items, but I'm not real hopeful on those. I plan on using a glaive for reach+Thicket of Blades+Stand Still goodness, so I won't be able to use a shield, but thanks for the tip.

Darrin
2010-01-11, 02:34 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't see where giving allies +5 damage for a turn only when I kill something is better than 4d6 extra damage and the enemy is flat-footed for a turn any time I use White Raven Strike. Is there something I'm missing here?


Lion's Roar is a boost (which Crusaders are woefully short on), so you can use it on the same turn as you use a strike. Assuming you have two or more allies, or one ally with multiple attacks, you're more likely to get more damage with Lion's Roar than with White Raven Strike. 4d6 is 14 points of damage on average. If you or your allies can get 3 or more attacks in the next round, that's 15 damage with the potential to do much, much more.

White Raven Strike is just a strike. You have plenty of those that work just as well. And the flat-footed thing doesn't really do you any good. Might make the rogue happy for a round, but +5 damage on every attack would probably make the rogue very *very* happy.

But it boils down to personal preference... as I said, it was a minor quibble.