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Draak_Grafula
2010-01-11, 08:41 AM
D&D 3.5 question:

Say I have a human wizard in Fullplate

When he is affected by the 'freedom of movement' spell is he...

1 ... alowed to move 30ft in stead of 20ft per move?

2 ... alowed to cast arcane spells without the spell failure chance?

3 ... alowed to perform skills without suffering the armor check penalty?

How about when he's carying a heavy load? Can he still move 30ft?

Thanks.

Cyclocone
2010-01-11, 08:56 AM
With a sufficiently liberal reading of FoM, yes he can. Just like he can act normally even when he's dead.

But RAI? I really have no idea. Most people would probably like to think the answear is 'no to all'; but with WotC you just never know.

But really, I would just go with 'no to all'.

Eloel
2010-01-11, 09:06 AM
I would go with Yes to 1 & 3, No to 2. It's the metal just as much as the weight that blocks the arcane spells.

Longcat
2010-01-11, 09:09 AM
No to all of those.

Saph
2010-01-11, 09:12 AM
Say I have a human wizard in Fullplate

When he is affected by the 'freedom of movement' spell is he...

Text of the Freedom of Movement spell, first paragraph:

"This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin."

Bolded for emphasis. Therefore:


1 ... alowed to move 30ft in stead of 20ft per move?

No.


2 ... alowed to cast arcane spells without the spell failure chance?

No.


3 ... alowed to perform skills without suffering the armor check penalty?

No.


How about when he's carying a heavy load? Can he still move 30ft?

No.

Normally, you move at 20 feet in plate armour, have ASF in plate armour, have an armour check penalty, and move slower with a heavy load. Freedom of Movement allows you to move and attack normally, which means you move at 20 feet in plate armour, have ASF in plate armour, have an armour check penalty, and move slower with a heavy load.

Zom B
2010-01-11, 09:17 AM
Text of the Freedom of Movement spell, first paragraph:

"This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin."

Bolded for emphasis.

Bolded/Oranged for emphasis. This seems to say that it works against mundane restrictions on your movement, and even magic too.

Saph
2010-01-11, 09:31 AM
Bolded/Oranged for emphasis. This seems to say that it works against mundane restrictions on your movement, and even magic too.

It says you move and attack normally. You can try to claim that this should remove any restrictions on your movement whatsoever, but this is a very strained reading and leads to nonsensical results. "Hey, that wall is restricting my movement, so I should be able to walk through it!"

jokey665
2010-01-11, 09:39 AM
It says you move and attack normally. You can try to claim that this should remove any restrictions on your movement whatsoever, but this is a very strained reading and leads to nonsensical results. "Hey, that wall is restricting my movement, so I should be able to walk through it!"

"I Iron Heart Surge the wall!"

Optimystik
2010-01-11, 09:40 AM
Arcane spell failure is a normal consequence for arcanists of wearing armor. Therefore, Freedom of Movement letting you move and act normally means you suffer from the same restrictions wizards would normally have when wearing armor.

That would be my explanation.

Zom B
2010-01-11, 09:42 AM
Well, being tangled up in magical webs normally keeps you from moving, too.

Lysander
2010-01-11, 09:45 AM
Normally, you move at 20 feet in plate armour, have ASF in plate armour, have an armour check penalty, and move slower with a heavy load. Freedom of Movement allows you to move and attack normally, which means you move at 20 feet in plate armour, have ASF in plate armour, have an armour check penalty, and move slower with a heavy load.

I agree with Saph. It only protects you from things that prevent you from moving in a normal way. When you're carrying something heavy it's normal to be constrained. Being grappled or caught in spider-webs is not part of normal movement. Basically, it works against outside constraints - your inventory is not an outside constraint.


Well, being tangled up in magical webs normally keeps you from moving, too.

True, but being caught in webs is not part of normal walking. It's not what's normal for the obstacle, it's what's normal for the act of movement.

dsmiles
2010-01-11, 10:01 AM
No, No, and No.

Optimystik
2010-01-11, 10:45 AM
Well, being tangled up in magical webs normally keeps you from moving, too.

What Lysander said, plus magical webs are a magical restriction by definition - which is specifically prevented by the spell.

Curmudgeon
2010-01-11, 10:59 AM
Bolded/Oranged for emphasis. This seems to say that it works against mundane restrictions on your movement, and even magic too. That's correct. It removes all those impediments which aren't normally present. If you choose to walk around in armor, such impediments are normal for that choice. Freedom of Movement also removes all impediments created by magic.

Do note that a wall is not an impediment to movement (unless it forms with you inside the material, of course). A wall is just an obstacle, which you're free to move around.

Lysander
2010-01-11, 11:14 AM
The question is, what happens if the subject is tied up or chained to a wall? Does Freedom of Movement free them? I'm leaning towards yes, but only to the extent of letting them auto-succeed on any possible escape artist check. So it would let someone slip out of manacles, not out of a locked iron maiden.

Optimystik
2010-01-11, 11:19 AM
The question is, what happens if the subject is tied up or chained to a wall? Does Freedom of Movement free them? I'm leaning towards yes, but only to the extent of letting them auto-succeed on any possible escape artist check. So it would let someone slip out of manacles, not out of a locked iron maiden.

You can't use Escape Artist for any space your head can't fit through, so yes, Iron Maidens are out. Manacles, Ropes, Chains etc. can all be bypassed by Freedom of Movement, because they can be bypassed by Escape Artist.

FishAreWet
2010-01-11, 11:29 AM
You can't use Escape Artist for any space your head can't fit through,

Wrong. It's a DC 80.

Totally Guy
2010-01-11, 11:34 AM
If you can breathe under water I believe you can use it to go through an underwater dungeon as if it were air.

But if you cast it on someone that was swimming they'd sink and drown as they would not have the ample buoyancy. That's not pleasant.

It that right?

Lysander
2010-01-11, 12:08 PM
If you can breathe under water I believe you can use it to go through an underwater dungeon as if it were air.

But if you cast it on someone that was swimming they'd sink and drown as they would not have the ample buoyancy. That's not pleasant.

It that right?

It says it allows them to move normally underwater...it doesn't say it forces them to.

cenghiz
2010-01-11, 12:30 PM
Indeed poor writing and thinking, Freedom of Movement is.

As a fourth level spell it:

- Cripples melee.. Why in the ninth pit of Hell did they see a need to that? - -- Crippling a whole slew of save or sucks... Just because.
- Walls of Force? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#escapeArtist) It's an escape artist check, so I can make it. An Iron Maiden? I fart in its general direction. With autosucceeding an escape artist check of 80, I can fit into places even smaller than my head or with check 120, even walls of force have spots I can squeeze through. I can of course escape from an iron maiden. Or I can pass through a normal, brick wall, who requires etherealness?
Bad Wizards, bad...

Edited: Look below, he's right.

Douglas
2010-01-11, 12:34 PM
Technically the escape artist bit only applies to escaping from grapples and pins.

2xMachina
2010-01-11, 01:29 PM
So, getting FoM won't save you from being entangled?

Roderick_BR
2010-01-11, 02:24 PM
The spell's text makes me think more of things intended to fully restrict movement (like grappling, paralisys, or web. The restrictions from the armor are unintended side effects, but they are not effects that restrict movement, i.e., it doen't actually stop you from walking, or doing stuff. It's just clunsier. Therefore, there's nothing there for Freedom of Movement to do.

ghashxx
2010-01-11, 11:01 PM
FoM only stops you from getting entangled if it's magical, or it involves grapple checks. So something like a tanglefoot bag says to me "you're screwed". But something like Evard's Tentacles means you're fine, and web (since it's magical) means you're also fine.

Sharkman1231
2010-01-11, 11:38 PM
FoM only stops you from getting entangled if it's magical, or it involves grapple checks. So something like a tanglefoot bag says to me "you're screwed". But something like Evard's Tentacles means you're fine, and web (since it's magical) means you're also fine.


No, tanglefoot bags are an impediment to movement which is prevented by FoM, which by the way is one of the most awsomest spells ever!

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-11, 11:57 PM
FoM only stops you from getting entangled if it's magical, or it involves grapple checks. So something like a tanglefoot bag says to me "you're screwed". But something like Evard's Tentacles means you're fine, and web (since it's magical) means you're also fine.

Reread the spell; it says "even", not "only".

Kallisti
2010-01-12, 12:02 AM
What Saph said.

Temotei
2010-01-12, 12:08 AM
What Saph said.

Yep. Exactly what Saph said.

Draz74
2010-01-12, 12:17 AM
Now, Freedom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedom.htm) I might be willing (as a DM) to allow with silly interpretations like being unhindered by armor. It's a freakin' Level 9 spell, after all. Even then, I would consider such a reading of the spell rather liberal.

But an equivalent spell of 4th level? No way. And if there's any confusion about the intent of FoM, comparison with Freedom should shut it down pretty fast (by saying "I'm going to interpret this Level 4 spell in a way that doesn't make this Level 9 spell obsolete, k?" :smalltongue:).

PhoenixRivers
2010-01-12, 12:37 AM
If the "Armor" is magic based (not just magic armor, as the mundane materials are what's limiting you), then you'd ignore any movement and action penalties from it.

Hard to think of a magic-based armor that provides Armor Check Penalties, Arcane spell failure, or movement restrictions. Perhaps Polymorphing into a Warforged?

In addition, if your heavy load is brought on by magic effect (takes more than holding a Wall of Iron, the heavy load status condition must be brought on directly by magic), then FoM would apply. Again, no spells spring to mind which do this, but a necromancy spell which treated you as having a heavy load would be an interesting spell.

Tavar
2010-01-12, 12:45 AM
Well, there are a couple spells that reduce your Str, which could put you into heavy load territory. Would those count?

Draak_Grafula
2010-01-12, 05:29 AM
Thanks for the input everybody. I'm going with no to all. Reading the spell properly definately rules out 2 and 3.

I especially like the "restrictions from without vs restrictions from within" idea as a guideline for this spell.

Cheers