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View Full Version : Choking/strangling rules in 3.5?



gallagher
2010-01-11, 10:12 AM
hey, i am playing a grappling player in 3.5, level 8. i was wondering if there were any rules to strangling someone, say via a noose?

there is going to be a pirate king/lord/whatever in the game that i am playing and i want his boat. how do i get his boat? kill him. i want to surprise him and run a length of rope over his head and throw him overboard.

so what are the rules on that?

hamishspence
2010-01-11, 10:14 AM
Song & Silence has garrote rules. Its 3.0, but no 3.5 source references them, and even Dragon magazine only mentions them once- in the Spy issue (316).

Doc Roc
2010-01-11, 10:33 AM
You'll basically need to play a choker.

This is a known and long running problem in 3.x, that's basically bloody hilarious.

gallagher
2010-01-11, 10:41 AM
You'll basically need to play a choker.

This is a known and long running problem in 3.x, that's basically bloody hilarious.

a choker? i dont know if that is a class or a name signifying my attacks... but if it is hilarious i am always down for it.

do choking rules work like swimming rules with holding breath? like, they can hold their breath as long as their constitution score?

hamishspence
2010-01-11, 10:46 AM
Its a small monster in the MM.

Mike_G
2010-01-11, 10:47 AM
We homebrewed strangling rules where you could force a Fort save, increasing each round, or the victim passed out. Kind of a necessity as the party was fighting a Death Goddess cult based on the Thugee.

I think the DC was based on your Grapple check.

Darrin
2010-01-11, 11:08 AM
do choking rules work like swimming rules with holding breath? like, they can hold their breath as long as their constitution score?

No, if it worked like drowning, the combat would be over before you could kill anybody with a garrote. The 3.0 garrote rules are more like grappling, make a grapple check and you do garrote damage (1d6 or 1d8 + Str bonus).

Callos_DeTerran
2010-01-11, 11:19 AM
Song & Silence has garrote rules. Its 3.0, but no 3.5 source references them, and even Dragon magazine only mentions them once- in the Spy issue (316).

Actually I think the reprinted them, because I remember seeing garrote and strangling rules in a Dragon magazine, but I'd hardly call it 'a Spy issue'. I can try and look it up, but I do remember that it was either badish (relying on your opponent to fail a fort save that got harder and harder) or was acceptable enough because it it did damage every round you maintained it and allowed sneak attack damage as well as silencing the target.

hamishspence
2010-01-11, 11:25 AM
It missed off most of the detail- none of the defensive collars, or the varieties of garrote.

Was there another issue? The one I'm talking about shows on the front cover a woman in purple, about to snatch scrolls from under a large chair with red upholstery and rather evil-looking decorations.

gallagher
2010-01-11, 11:28 AM
No, if it worked like drowning, the combat would be over before you could kill anybody with a garrote. The 3.0 garrote rules are more like grappling, make a grapple check and you do garrote damage (1d6 or 1d8 + Str bonus).oh, well, then more to the point of it, how long would it take to kill someone by putting a noose over their head, then pulling the noose over a banister of some sort, or have someone holding the noose jump off of the mast or something like that

hamishspence
2010-01-11, 11:30 AM
Could pinch the rules from BoVD for Hanging executions- they normally require the victim be helpless, but this could be waived.

SurlySeraph
2010-01-11, 11:53 AM
You could yoink the d20 Modern strangling rules. They're in the d20 Modern SRD, under "Environment and Hazards" rather than "Combat" for some damn reason. They're not very powerful and take a long time to kill the target, but if you're against a single strong enemy they could be worthwhile.


Strangulation
When a character is strangled by an instrument or an attacker, use the rules below.

A character can strangle or choke a target of the same size category or one size category larger or smaller. The strangling attempt incurs an attack of opportunity.

To begin the choke, the attacker must succeed at an opposed grapple check. If the grapple succeeds, the attacker can choose to deal normal unarmed damage as well as choke the target. The target can hold his of her breath for a number of rounds equal to his or her Constitution score. After this period of time, the target must make a Constitution check (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) every round to continue holding his or her breath. The target begins to suffocate on a failed check (see Suffocation and Drowning).

If at any time the target breaks free or slips free of the grapple, the stranglehold is broken (although any damage that was dealt remains). Note that a grappled target who is not pinned can use his or her attack action to strangle his or her attacker.

gorfnab
2010-01-11, 02:40 PM
Dragon Magazine #355 has a an article on strangulation on page 84.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-11, 02:44 PM
I got a faster way than strangling him...

If your a rogue, get a metal garrot
make it vorpal
may the decapitation commense!!

Ormagoden
2010-01-11, 03:06 PM
I got a faster way than strangling him...

If your a rogue, get a metal garrot
make it vorpal
may the decapitation commense!!

Nope.

Vorpal: This potent and feared ability allows the weapon to sever the heads of those it strikes. Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off. A vorpal weapon must be a slashing weapon. (If you roll this property randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll.)

Strong necromancy and transmutation; CL 18th; Craft Magical Arms and Armor, circle of death, keen edge; Price +5 bonus.

Eldan
2010-01-11, 03:09 PM
Well, a really, really sharp garrotte could be considered slashing...

I would work with the grappling rules, myself: there's already a way to deal damage that way, and after some time, the opponent will pass out. If we go by the assumption that normal people are level 1-5, it's not even an unreasonably long time.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-01-11, 03:14 PM
Ever heared of slitting some guy's throat with piano wire? same concept

Mongoose87
2010-01-11, 03:44 PM
Ever heared of slitting some guy's throat with piano wire? same concept

Yeah, I was relatively certain this is usually the idea. Strangulation is inefficient and loud, what with all the struggling.

hamishspence
2010-01-11, 04:11 PM
Well, a really, really sharp garrotte could be considered slashing...

And the Song & Silence rules have garrottes that do slashing damage.

The Dragon 355 rules include optional rules for hit point damage, but doesn't specify what type of damage the weapon does.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-11, 04:15 PM
The way our group did it was maintain a pin to cause str mod worth of rounds of drowning. Just don't let go.

Longcat
2010-01-11, 04:33 PM
What's so bad about using RAW, anyway?

1. Grapple somone
2. Pin him
3. Deal unarmed damage to him every round

ericgrau
2010-01-11, 04:37 PM
^ Well clearly grappling is not nearly complicated enough, that's what. :smalltongue:

If you can disarm a well secured object while pinning someone, it's reasonable that you could also do the reverse to put a rope around his neck. I'd use the same modifiers. For dragging someone, the net rules might have something similar you could use. If you only mean to use the rope to damage his neck and not drag him somewhere, then I don't see why that would be better than grapple damage; just use that.

FishAreWet
2010-01-11, 04:42 PM
No one has said it?


Bind a Character
When you bind another character with a rope, any Escape Artist check that the bound character makes is opposed by your Use Rope check.

You get a +10 bonus on this check because it is easier to bind someone than to escape from bonds. You don’t even make your Use Rope check until someone tries to escape.

Mongoose87
2010-01-11, 04:47 PM
No one has said it?

That's to tie them up, not to choke them.

gallagher
2010-01-11, 05:21 PM
What's so bad about using RAW, anyway?

1. Grapple somone
2. Pin him
3. Deal unarmed damage to him every round

because the way that i want to go with it is to eliminate the leader of a pirate ship that is docking our ship and then be able to fight off his comrades.

if i can hang the pirate captain(which is what would be waiting for him were he caught on land, anyways) then i can fight off his minions and fellow pirates while he hangs there, incapable of fighting. and i think that as far as pirates go, might is right, so he is the hardest bad guy to kill on there.

hey, my character is lawful, so i like to have a plan. this is me doing my research out of character because i can make a good guess as to how long it takes someone to die from a hanging in real life.

Rasman
2010-01-11, 05:26 PM
I don't know if you use/allow the quientessencial books, but quientessecnial monk II has rules for Choking and Strangling in the exact fasion you're talking about. I'm at work, so I don't have the book in front of me, but once I get home, I can look it up for you OR you could always look and see if someone has the rulings hosted up somewhere.

gallagher
2010-01-12, 01:10 AM
I don't know if you use/allow the quientessencial books, but quientessecnial monk II has rules for Choking and Strangling in the exact fasion you're talking about. I'm at work, so I don't have the book in front of me, but once I get home, I can look it up for you OR you could always look and see if someone has the rulings hosted up somewhere.
according to that book, it is DC 10 fortitude save, with each successive attempt at a DC of 1 higher than the previous, which resets back to 10 if the grapple is ever broken

SethFahad
2010-01-12, 01:48 AM
Reaping Mauler has some options like Sleeper Lock and Devastating Grapple...

Smythen
2010-01-12, 07:58 AM
Theres rules for a garotte in Iron Kingdoms. I believe it does d6 leathal dammage and ads sneak attack dammage to your graple dammage aswell.
ie, can only be used as part of a graple.

Its a really tough weapon and every IK rogue worth his salt has one up his sleave, in his boot and as a ribbon in his hair.