The ultimate question - scout or ranger

[Seth1221]

I'll soon start a new campaign and I want to play a stealthy bow-user. Can you guys help me out? What are the pros and cons of both these classes? What are your ideas?

My biggest objection is about skirmish ability - it looks great up to level 8 - when scout gains second attack. What then?

Hope you can give me few pointers!

[jokey665]

Both! Use swift hunter from Complete Scoundrel to stack the levels for various abilities. As for what to do when you get extra attacks... Manyshot, and eventually Greater Manyshot?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Why choose? Swift Hunter.

Skirmish is troublesome, yes, but there are ways to either grab free movement(Travel Devotion) or make Standard Action attacks awesome(Greater Manyshot).

[XiaoTie]

Think about the children DM!
But, yeah, multiclass is a good way to go as far as ranger vs. scout :D

[dsmiles]

Looks like I'm late to the party. +1 for Swift Hunter.

[Seth1221]

Heh OK consider me convinced when it comes to Swift hunter:smallwink:

Oh, and another two questions:

Does skirmish work if I move AFTER the attack (in the same round)

What about shooting from hiding? If I shoot and then move am I discovered? (it's more a question about the mechanics but I'm curious)

[Boci]

Heh OK consider me convinced when it comes to Swift hunter:smallwink:

Oh, and another two questions:

Does skirmish work if I move AFTER the attack (in the same round)

What about shooting from hiding? If I shoot and then move am I discovered? (it's more a question about the mechanics but I'm curious)

No you have to move before the attack.

[Weezer]

I think you need to have moved before the attacks, how can you gain a benefit for something you haven't done yet?

As for shooting and rehiding you take a -20 penalty to rehide after firing, see the sniper section of hide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm) rules

[Seth1221]

OK so you guys say go both - how many levels of scout and ranger than?

[JellyPooga]

OK so you guys say go both - how many levels of scout and ranger than?

Depends really....would you rather have Full BAB, Combat Style and Animal Companion or 3/4 BAB, Bonus Feats, Battle Fortitude and all the other bits a Scout gets?

Myself, I'd go 3 Levels Ranger and the rest Scout to net the (Ex) Freedom of Movement, but that's just my personal preference.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Scout 4, Ranger16?

[Seth1221]

My thought was to take:

2 lvls of ranger - track + combat mastery
or
4 lvls of ranger - to get distracting attack (PHII) + boost the attack and fortitude save

What do you think?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Depends on how you plan to grab free movement. If it's through a CC dip and Travel Devotion, you really only need 2 levels of Ranger. If it's through Greater Manyshot, you want more so that you grab all the bonus feats you can.

[ken-do-nim]

Scout 20.

I hate every ranger class made after 1E.

[Androgeus]

Scout 20.

I hate every ranger class made after 1E.

Scout 19/Ranger 1 with swift hunter is definitly better than plain Scout 20

[Seth1221]

Thank you guys for the insight - I think I'll take 2 levels of ranger. You've been very helpfull - if anything new comes up to your minds post it!:smallsmile:

EDIT:

1 scout – noncombatant, point blank shot, precise shot
1 scout/ 1 ranger – track, favored enemy
1 scout/ 2 ranger – combat style (rapid shot), dodge
2 scout/ 2 ranger
3 scout/ 2 ranger
4 scout/ 2 ranger – Swift hunter, travel devotion
5 scout/ 2 ranger
6 scout/ 2 ranger
7 scout/ 2 ranger – Manyshot
8 scout/ 2 ranger – Greater manyshot
9scout/ 2 ranger
10 scout/ 2 ranger – mobility
11 scout/ 2 ranger
12 scout/ 2 ranger – shot on the run

Any suggestions?

[deuxhero]

I'd go with Ranger/scout over scout/ranger.

[Seth1221]

Yeah I was wondering about that - but the idea of scout suits me better:smallamused:

[Keld Denar]

Do you have Spell Compendium? If so, DEFINITELY go Scout4/Ranger16. There are some seriously awesome ranger spells in SpC that go a long way toward making the class MUCH better. Pick up a couple of cheap Pearl of Power 1s and 2s to give you as much /day stamina as you feel you need and work from there.

Really, Fell the Greatest Foe, Lion's Pounce, Hunter's Eye, Critical Strike, and a few others are REALLY good.

[Seth1221]

Oh, ok thank's for the tip - I'm not sure if DM will approve spell compedium though...

[IonDragon]

Swift Hunter Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=103.0). Personally, I'd go Scout 4/Ranger 12-14 something else 2-4. The build I'm planning on using is noncaster Ranger spending those extra feats on my animal companion and Beastmaster 4 (My GM ruled that the Beastmaster 4's 2nd animal companion is nowhere near as suck as RAW seems to make it). If you plan on really using your animal companion Beastmaster 1 is still great, and you could dip 1 warrior for an extra feat.

Don't forget, Swift Hunter makes your Skirmish damage apply to your favored enemies even if they are things immune to criticals, so Undead and Constructs are ideal.

[Seth1221]

What do you think about that?

1 scout – noncombatant, point blank shot, precise shot
1 scout/ 1 ranger – track, favored enemy
1 scout/ 2 ranger – combat style (rapid shot), dodge
2 scout/ 2 ranger
3 scout/ 2 ranger
4 scout/ 2 ranger – Swift hunter, travel devotion
4 scout/ 3 ranger
4 scout/ 4 ranger – distracting shot
4 scout/ 5 ranger – Ranged Disarm
4 scout/ 6 ranger – improved combat style (Manyshot)
4 scout/ 7 ranger
4 scout/ 8 ranger - Greater manyshot
4 scout/ 9 ranger
4 scout/ 10 ranger
4 scout/ 11 ranger – Imroved Rapid Shot, combat mastery

I'm resigning from the animal companion

[hamishspence]

Champions of Ruin (Faerun, but adaptable to any setting) has some quite nice magic spells for an archer.

[Eldariel]

Champions of Ruin (Faerun, but adaptable to any setting) has some quite nice magic spells for an archer.

Spell Compendium too. Goes great with Mystic Ranger [Dragon Magazine Whatever].

[Blas_de_Lezo]

One DM once told me that when you have two great ideas, it's better to you than you meld two in one, rather than choosing. Multiclass or grab that Swift Ranger feat! :smallwink:

[TaintedLight]

It strikes me here that Greater Manyshot might not work for this character because it is a psionic feat:


Psionic feats are available only to characters and creatures with the ability to manifest powers. (In other words, they either have a power point reserve or have psi-like abilities.)

While the prerequisites for Greater Manyshot presented in the text of the feat don't have this stipulation, it seems like the character still needs to meet those requirements to take any psionic feat. Is there something that I'm missing?

[Keshay]

It strikes me here that Greater Manyshot might not work for this character because it is a psionic feat:



While the prerequisites for Greater Manyshot presented in the text of the feat don't have this stipulation, it seems like the character still needs to meet those requirements to take any psionic feat. Is there something that I'm missing?

Greater Manyshot is a general feat. Its just in the Psionic feats section because it was published in the XPH

[TaintedLight]

Greater Manyshot is a general feat. Its just in the Psionic feats section because it was published in the XPH

Gotcha. I knew something felt wierd about that as a psionic feat...

[lsfreak]

I like Scout4/Ranger15/CloisteredCleric1; the cleric gets you the stuff to really power Knowledge Devotion and Travel Devotion (all Knowledges as class skills, and turn undead). Unless you're really concerned about the swift action for Travel Devotion, don't worry about Greater Manyshot until you're out of more useful things. Another possibility is Scout5/Ranger14/CC1, using ACFs to get the ability to reflect missed rays (between skirmish and high Dex, your touch AC is pretty damn high).

Swift Hunter feats:
Swift Hunter (duh)
Travel Devotion (move at speed as a swift action 1/rnd, Complete Champion)
Knowledge Devotion (bonus to atk/dmg versus enemy based on related knowledge roll, Complete Champion)
Improved Skirmish (moving 20ft gets an extra +2d6/+2, Complete Scoundrel)
Sword of the Arcane Order (lets you prepare wizard spells in ranger slots, Champions of Valor)
Woodland Archer (flat +4 to attacks of that round after you miss one, Races of the Wild)