Oh, Chuck Me

[Sneak]

I've seen Chuck mentioned more than a few times on the "What to watch on Hulu" thread, so I assume there are some other Chuck fans on the boards.

I just watched the first two episodes of the new season, and I'm a bit disappointed. After the hugely epic story arc at the end of the second season and the equally epic struggle to get the show renewed, these two new episodes just felt kind of...bland, even compared to the standalone season 2 episodes (Chuck vs. Tom Sawyer, anyone?).

Also, I felt like the Chuck/Sarah relationship drama was really heavy-handed. I mean, come on. The first scene where Chuck and Sarah see each other again was kind of painful to watch, IMO, what with the overly maudlin music in the background and all. Oh, and Chuck's big speech to the bad guy about how it's difficult for spies to love while the camera is focusing right on Sarah, who happens to be standing directly in front of him? We get it, guys, we're not that stupid.

The whole thing about Chuck choosing not to run away with Sarah also could have been handled better. I think character-wise, it makes sense for Chuck to choose to stay despite his love, but they should have emphasized different reasons, because Chuck's never seemed overly concerned with patriotism or doing good just for the sake of doing good—don't get me wrong, he's a good guy, and I get that the writers are trying to show how he's finally trying to be a real spy and a real hero, but I think this change is still a little sudden. In my opinion, he should have talked more about how he's finally found his calling, instead of how he can do so much good, because the whole issue of his life was its aimlessness. Additionally, the whole "running away" thing is probably something he still has issues with, thanks to his dear old dad, even though he now knows it wasn't just because his dad's a crazy old screwup. He should be a little concerned about leaving Ellie and Awesome behind, especially because as long as he's still the Intersect, they're still in danger.

Another thing is that the whole episode felt a little too much like a reset to me. I know they had to return things to the status quo at least a little bit, but it feels like other than the new powers, Chuck's life really hasn't changed much, even after all the things he did and said at the end of the second season. Which is kind of a cop out.

And finally, Emmett's death. Whoah. I guess they needed to cut out Tony Hale, but this was an unexpected and very harsh way to do it. I guess the writers want to show they mean business this time, and the bad guys really are bad. Anna's disappearance is also sad. I miss her. I hate budget cuts. And speaking of paying actors, I'm really curious as to how Chuck's dad felt about his decision to re-download the Intersect, but I understand that Bakula's busy with Men of a Certain Age now and he's probably a pretty expensive guest star.

Still, it beats most things on TV. I'll try to watch the episode tonight (online if not on TV) and see if I gets back up to regular season 2 quality.

Any thoughts?

[BRC]

The show has always ran on Chuck/Sarah UST. This episode was laying it on a little thick though.
As for the "reset" factor, It's what happens when a show has a winning formula. They Recipe for an episode of Chuck is as follows:
Take some Evil Machinations. Prepare by having Casey and Sara be bad ass, have Chuck bumble around in an amusing manner, but save the day in the end (With or without the intersect). Sprinkle with Chuck/Sarah UST, Serve with a side of amusing Buy More shenanigans.
It's a winning recipe, it's served them well for two seasons of a very good show. They can't really deviate from it, or they are at the very least scared too

However, last season was a great ending for the show, but it raises some interesting problems as a middle. They have a winning recipe, but the ending of season 2 changes so much of that, especially on the Chuck/Sarah Front.

So, they either have to change the recipe, or let things settle out. The UST was always my least favorite part of Chuck, and I'm hoping that these two episodes were them handling the end of season two, and not a sign that they are radically adjusting the Buy More Shenanigans+ Spy Stuff to "Chuck and Sarah have issues" ratio.

[Sneak]

The show has always ran on Chuck/Sarah UST. This episode was laying it on a little thick though.
As for the "reset" factor, It's what happens when a show has a winning formula. They Recipe for an episode of Chuck is as follows:
Take some Evil Machinations. Prepare by having Casey and Sara be bad ass, have Chuck bumble around in an amusing manner, but save the day in the end (With or without the intersect). Sprinkle with Chuck/Sarah UST, Serve with a side of amusing Buy More shenanigans.
It's a winning recipe, it's served them well for two seasons of a very good show. They can't really deviate from it, or they are at the very least scared too

However, last season was a great ending for the show, but it raises some interesting problems as a middle. They have a winning recipe, but the ending of season 2 changes so much of that, especially on the Chuck/Sarah Front.

So, they either have to change the recipe, or let things settle out. The UST was always my least favorite part of Chuck, and I'm hoping that these two episodes were them handling the end of season two, and not a sign that they are radically adjusting the Buy More Shenanigans+ Spy Stuff to "Chuck and Sarah have issues" ratio.

Well, yeah, I understand why they felt the need to hit the reset button, but as a viewer, that doesn't make it feel/seem any less cheap.

I also understand why the UST is so important in the show—but it really doesn't have to be. Just look at The Office after Jim and Pam got together. It still worked. I no longer watch The Office, but that's not because Jim and Pam got together, it's just because I no longer was that interested in the characters or their lives.

My point is that while formulas can be successful, they tend to stagnate after repeated use, and the writers shouldn't feel so confined to the status quo or the formula that they are unwilling to try out new things or change the formula.

Still, it's a good show, and even if the formula stays the same, I'll probably keep watching—it's just so damn fun. :smallbiggrin:

[BRC]

Well, yeah, I understand why they felt the need to hit the reset button, but as a viewer, that doesn't make it feel/seem any less cheap.

I also understand why the UST is so important in the show—but it really doesn't have to be. Just look at The Office after Jim and Pam got together. It still worked. I no longer watch The Office, but that's not because Jim and Pam got together, it's just because I no longer was that interested in the characters or their lives.

My point is that while formulas can be successful, they tend to stagnate after repeated use, and the writers shouldn't feel so confined to the status quo or the formula that they are unwilling to try out new things or change the formula.

Still, it's a good show, and even if the formula stays the same, I'll probably keep watching—it's just so damn fun. :smallbiggrin:

This is true. But it isn't a question of "Could the show work without UST" it's "Do the writers feel confidant enough to change a winning formula". At best, they will either change the formula for the better, at worse they change it and mess everything up, or the show awkwardly stagnates.

They added a new development with The Action-intersect thing, but there is a problem. The Dynamic hasn't changed, now it's just Chuck flashing on a skill instead of on information. It looks like they changed the recipe, but they just switched butter for margerine.

The way I see it, if they don't take a chance and change something, they will still have a good show on their hands, but Season 3 will be "The season to watch if you have time".

[Zocelot]

So, major plot twist at the end of tonight's episode.

Personally, Awesome was one of my favorite characters (along with Casey). I am, of course, assuming that he is dead. The show will certainly be different without him. Perhaps they are going for a very serious third season because they doubt that it will be renewed for a fourth.

[Gaelbert]

I haven't watched any of this but I have a question for you. Is Chuck different than Burn Notice? Because they seem very similar from the clips I saw.

[chiasaur11]

I haven't watched any of this but I have a question for you. Is Chuck different than Burn Notice? Because they seem very similar from the clips I saw.

Less Bruce Campbell, more Adam Baldwin.

So, you need to see both.

[DraPrime]

I haven't watched any of this but I have a question for you. Is Chuck different than Burn Notice? Because they seem very similar from the clips I saw.

They're very different. Burn Notice is more "I'm a badass spy who got kicked out of his regular job. I now do cool things in Miami for a living."

Chuck is more "I'm a regular dude who has had spy-worked forced on me. And I hang out with a wicked hot girl all the time."

They're both good, and quite different.

[Gaelbert]

So is Chuck lighter in tone?

[BRC]

Can I just say, When I saw Adam Baldwin with a Minigun my first reaction was
"OMG, JAYNE HAS SASHA".
I kept waiting for him to say "GO CRY SOME MORE"

[DraPrime]

So is Chuck lighter in tone?

Well, I guess so. Burn Notice isn't exactly dark. It's more just strait up "cool." Chuck on the other hand is a comedy with some cool moments.

[chiasaur11]

Can I just say, When I saw Adam Baldwin with a Minigun my first reaction was
"OMG, JAYNE HAS SASHA".
I kept waiting for him to say "GO CRY SOME MORE"

That was the second one for me.

First was "I call it Vera."

[BRC]

That was the second one for me.

First was "I call it Vera."
Earlier he was talking about the number of rounds per minute, and all I could think of was
"She fires $200 custom tooled cartridges at twelve hundred rounds per minute"

Edit: Also, Mustachioed Casey was awesome. My thought was "Get that man some aviators and a loose cannon partner"

[Sneak]

Edit: Also, Mustachioed Casey was awesome. My thought was "Get that man some aviators and a loose cannon partner"

Haha, yeah, that was fantastic. He made a very good (albeit young) uncle. :smalltongue: I always love Casey's covers.

Oh, and Burn Notice and Chuck aren't really similar at all. Burn Notice is all about a super awesome spy being super awesome (and sometimes funny in the process), while Chuck is about a pretty crappy accidental spy being, well, pretty crappy (and always funny in the process). Of course, Chuck always pulls through in the end, because it's a TV show. A large part of it is also about his relationship with Sarah, his beautiful female handler. And Casey, who grunts a lot.

[kpenguin]

So, major plot twist at the end of tonight's episode.

Personally, Awesome was one of my favorite characters (along with Casey). I am, of course, assuming that he is dead. The show will certainly be different without him. Perhaps they are going for a very serious third season because they doubt that it will be renewed for a fourth.

Did you stay around for next monday's preview? It shows him alive and well, though with an explosive earpiece attached to his... ear.

[chiasaur11]

Did you stay around for next monday's preview? It shows him alive and well

Plus, the timing was off for "dead". Mind, if it wasn't for that, my thoughts this season would be "I see Adam's been passing along ideas he got from Joss.

[Sneak]

Well, I just watched it and I actually liked it a lot more than the two premiere episodes. The one thing that was missing was the Buy-Moria, but apparently tonight was our favorite electronics retailer's night off due to budget cuts. Ah, well.

I am kinda wishing Levi would grow his beard out a bit again, though. :smalltongue:

[kpenguin]

Best line in the episode

"This has enough poison to kill an army platoon"
"Good thing I'm a marine."
*headbutt*

[Sneak]

My favorite part was when Casey first talks about how he's wanted in Costa Gravas. I kept expecting him to say:

"I was there a few years back, like I said. Pulled a second-story, tried to kill the dictator up on the hill. But things went way south. I had to hightail it.

And then show up at the dinner in full Jaynestown "disguise" clothing. :smalltongue:

(And then it would turn out that the Costa Gravans worship him because they hated the dictator, and then the dictator would set loose Casey's old partner who was captured and imprisoned, who would try to kill him but then end up getting killed himself, and Casey would have a big emotional moment. And then Sarah would have sex with the dictator's son, who she convinces to, er, yeah, the possible parallels kinda fall apart now...)

[Derthric]

My favorite part was when Casey first talks about how he's wanted in Costa Gravas. I kept expecting him to say:

"I was there a few years back, like I said. Pulled a second-story, tried to kill the dictator up on the hill. But things went way south. I had to hightail it.

And then show up at the dinner in full Jaynestown "disguise" clothing. :smalltongue:

(And then it would turn out that the Costa Gravans worship him because they hated the dictator, and then the dictator would set loose Casey's old partner who was captured and imprisoned, who would try to kill him but then end up getting killed himself, and Casey would have a big emotional moment. And then Sarah would have sex with the dictator's son, who she convinces to, er, yeah, the possible parallels kinda fall apart now...)


I once tried to explain Casey as who Jayne would have been had he gone to boot camp instead of just out into the world to be Bad @$$. Not accurate but I think it fits.


As far as the new episodes I liked the 3rd more than the first two largely because I feel the story of the show is advanced more with Elle and Awesome more than with Jeffster, Morgan, and the Greenshirts. However the first two did have this lackluster feel to it, of course they are probably trying to avoid a moonlighting situation with the Chuck/Sarah relationship so a reset wasn't all that surprising.

My problem was that they didn't use the reset to really advance the characters while reinforcing the status quo. As series like the new BSG relied heavily on the resets but each time it brought the world back to the norm of the series each character itself was different. Chuck is back at the Buy More as is Big Mike and Morgan all in the roles they had before. Granted Big Mike may, emphasis on the MAY, have had some sort of change during the time off but we haven't enough to judge. But maybe change it up Casey works it when he gets them their jobs back to put someone else as manager or corporate goes to the senior most employee and its Jeff or anything to change that up but keep Chuck in the great nation of Buy-Moria. It wouldn't throw the formula off but keep something changing and to reflect that yes things have changed not just the graphic when Chuck flashes or what he flashes on

[BRC]

A great episode in the classic Chuck style, with almost no Chuck/Sarah UST, probably trying to lower the average after the first two eps. A good use of Captain Awesome, and more importantly, the return of Mustachioed Casey.

[Muz]

They're very different. Burn Notice is more "I'm a badass spy who got kicked out of his regular job. I now do cool things in Miami for a living."

Chuck is more "I'm a regular dude who has had spy-worked forced on me. And I hang out with a wicked hot girl all the time."

They're both good, and quite different.

Or, to put it slightly differently:

Burn Notice: Badass spy gets kicked out of his regular job and is now a civilian.
Chuck: Civilian gets kicked out of his regular job and is now a badass spy.

The thought of a Chuck/Burn Notice crossover both scares and intrigues me. :smallbiggrin: (But yes, both good shows--though I'd score Burn Notice a little higher.)

[Dallas-Dakota]

Silly Hulu can't be watched from here.:smallsigh::smallannoyed: Damn xenophobics......

[BRC]

Or, to put it slightly differently:

Burn Notice: Badass spy gets kicked out of his regular job and is now a civilian.
Chuck: Civilian gets kicked out of his regular job and is now a badass spy.

The thought of a Chuck/Burn Notice crossover both scares and intrigues me. :smallbiggrin: (But yes, both good shows--though I'd score Burn Notice a little higher.)
Michael Westin is badass, but he can' stand up to Mustachioed Casey.

[chiasaur11]

Michael Westin is badass, but he can' stand up to Mustachioed Casey.

What about Bruce Campbell, though, eh?

[Zocelot]

I recently learned that Adam Baldwin is 47 years old, which surprised me greatly since he looks at least a decade younger. So, the second Sunday episode, I was laughing my ass off at him trying to say that he is young.

[BRC]

What about Bruce Campbell, though, eh?
Bruce Campbell vs 80's hair Adam Baldwin... I don't know.

[Keshay]

What about Bruce Campbell, though, eh?

Hasn't it already been determined that Bruce Campbell always wins when comparing levels of awesome in real people?

He's like the Batman of real life actors.

[BRC]

Hasn't it already been determined that Bruce Campbell always wins when comparing levels of awesome in real people?

He's like the Batman of real life actors.

Wait, Bruce Campbell....Bruce Wayne....

[SinisterPenguin]

Chuck is awesome, yes. Though, like a lot of people, it does bother me a bit how the premiere seemed to reset the Chuck/Sarah status quo. Otherwise, an excellent few episodes. I particularly liked how the latest episode sort of showed Chuck from Awesome's perspective--and how badass Chuck seems. :smalltongue:

And I loved Casey being insecure about his age in the premiere. I hope that continues through the rest of the season.

[Archonic Energy]

Silly Hulu can't be watched from here.:smallsigh::smallannoyed: Damn xenophobics......
as a fellow non-american Chuck fan i have a question...
do you want a PM? :smallwink:

my thoughts on Chuck so far

there seems to be ALOT of information in the Intersect 2.0. Dance moves, instrument playing, Kung-Fu, feild surgery, inteligence reports. i wonder if there is markmanship.

i understand the Need for a reset of the Chuck/Sarah romance, at the end of the last series they were basically "there" and the only way to go forward would be to go all "Mr. & Mrs Smith" however that would undermine the basic Premise of Chuck.
so they had to go back, and while i may not agree how they did it it needed to be done

i'm slightly more worried about "Cpt. Awesome", as a sub character who knows Chucks secret he is now destined to die, and that annoys me because Awesome is... well Awesome!

Additional thoughts
Casey + Minigun=AWESOME!
i'm suprised Jeff didn't just keep drinking the "Jail Juice" with the stuff in... :smalltongue:

[Sneak]

As far as the new episodes I liked the 3rd more than the first two largely because I feel the story of the show is advanced more with Elle and Awesome more than with Jeffster, Morgan, and the Greenshirts. However the first two did have this lackluster feel to it, of course they are probably trying to avoid a moonlighting situation with the Chuck/Sarah relationship so a reset wasn't all that surprising.

My problem was that they didn't use the reset to really advance the characters while reinforcing the status quo. As series like the new BSG relied heavily on the resets but each time it brought the world back to the norm of the series each character itself was different. Chuck is back at the Buy More as is Big Mike and Morgan all in the roles they had before. Granted Big Mike may, emphasis on the MAY, have had some sort of change during the time off but we haven't enough to judge. But maybe change it up Casey works it when he gets them their jobs back to put someone else as manager or corporate goes to the senior most employee and its Jeff or anything to change that up but keep Chuck in the great nation of Buy-Moria. It wouldn't throw the formula off but keep something changing and to reflect that yes things have changed not just the graphic when Chuck flashes or what he flashes on

I dunno, I actually like the Buy More a lot. I think it gives the series a very unique feel. Plus, it's nice to see a world where Chuck is the guy on top of things instead of the screwup spy. And come on, the Buy More gave us Jeffster!

I completely agree on the whole reset thing. Hell, BSG is one of my favorite shows—I've watched the whole thing through multiple times—and I didn't even notice the reset tactics until you just pointed them out. They do reset a lot, it just never seems like a reset because while the situations reset, the characters do not. Very insightful comment.


Silly Hulu can't be watched from here.:smallsigh::smallannoyed: Damn xenophobics......

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to give out links or anything because of the dubious legality, but it is very easy to find Chuck episodes online elsewhere. You know. If you were wondering. :smallwink:


I recently learned that Adam Baldwin is 47 years old, which surprised me greatly since he looks at least a decade younger. So, the second Sunday episode, I was laughing my ass off at him trying to say that he is young.

That's exactly why I thought it was so funny. In the first season, I noticed that every woman Casey was involved with was pretty significantly younger (or at least the actresses were younger than Baldwin), so I thought it was especially amusing to see Carina pointing out that age difference.

Oh, and it was really good to see a guest star return. I don't think we've ever seen any guest stars from a standalone episode return before.


Hasn't it already been determined that Bruce Campbell always wins when comparing levels of awesome in real people?

He's like the Batman of real life actors.

QFT.


as a fellow non-american Chuck fan i have a question...
do you want a PM? :smallwink:

my thoughts on Chuck so far

there seems to be ALOT of information in the Intersect 2.0. Dance moves, instrument playing, Kung-Fu, feild surgery, inteligence reports. i wonder if there is markmanship.

i understand the Need for a reset of the Chuck/Sarah romance, at the end of the last series they were basically "there" and the only way to go forward would be to go all "Mr. & Mrs Smith" however that would undermine the basic Premise of Chuck.
so they had to go back, and while i may not agree how they did it it needed to be done

i'm slightly more worried about "Cpt. Awesome", as a sub character who knows Chucks secret he is now destined to die, and that annoys me because Awesome is... well Awesome!

Additional thoughts
Casey + Minigun=AWESOME!
i'm suprised Jeff didn't just keep drinking the "Jail Juice" with the stuff in... :smalltongue:




I'm wondering about the extent of Chuck's abilities, too. I was thinking about the episode is supposed to seduce the Black Widow, and whether or not the Intersect 2.0 would've let him flash on something to teach him how to seduce people. I'm leaning towards no. I'm guessing that the only abilities that can be flashed on are those based on muscle memory—i.e. fighting, guitar playing, etc.—or things like surgery that involve concrete teachable knowledge. So even though maybe seduction can be taught to some extent, because there's no one way to do it that will work every time it wouldn't work as an Intersect ability.

Oh, and I don't think Devon's going to die. Apparently he was originally supposed to be revealed as an enemy agent at the end of season 1, but they decided to keep him around and make him a normal awesome dude because of the character's popularity. So I don't see why they would do that only to kill him off now. Isn't he a series regular, too?

I guess Emmett's death really did work as a way to make viewers more concerned about the life of other characters, though.

EDIT: Oh, and I totally thought Jeff wouldn't be affected by the drugs in the jail juice either. He's got to have built up some pretty strong immunities by now, right?

[Archonic Energy]

I'm wondering about the extent of Chuck's abilities, too. I was thinking about the episode is supposed to seduce the Black Widow, and whether or not the Intersect 2.0 would've let him flash on something to teach him how to seduce people. I'm leaning towards no. I'm guessing that the only abilities that can be flashed on are those based on muscle memory—i.e. fighting, guitar playing, etc.—or things like surgery that involve concrete teachable knowledge. So even though maybe seduction can be taught to some extent, because there's no one way to do it that will work every time it wouldn't work as an Intersect ability.

Oh, and I don't think Devon's going to die. Apparently he was originally supposed to be revealed as an enemy agent at the end of season 1, but they decided to keep him around and make him a normal awesome dude because of the character's popularity. So I don't see why they would do that only to kill him off now. Isn't he a series regular, too?

I guess Emmett's death really did work as a way to make viewers more concerned about the life of other characters, though.

more idle speculations regarding Season 3

i'm trying to remember if we've seen him speak another language from the Intersect 2.0 yet. maybe there's more mundane tasks like cooking in there too... incase he has to work in a kitchen for cover.
also since he hates guns so much i think it would be quite fitting for him to be thrown a gun by Sarah and him to take out a squad of Ring operatives, much to his own Disgust.

Emmett's death made me think, when he was egging on the Assassin i was waiting for him to get his arse kicked with glee, and then (quite literally) BAM!
then i felt kinda guilty. quite a trip!

[BRC]

Agreed on Intersect 2.0. It's either muscle memory or concrete information. It wouldn't work for any social interaction.

Also, I personally think they killed Emmet because they hated the character. This seemed like a Bridge Drop

[Philistine]

Thoughts on the new season so far:
Chuck vs. Sarah: Blah, Reset. I understand the writers not wanting to mess with a formula when it's (apparently) working, but... dude. Fish or cut bait, man! In the interest of full disclosure, I should probably note that the "Will They/Won't They" gag is not generally one of my favorites, and Chuck is no exception - this relationship has been getting on my nerves since early Season 2. By now the Chuck/Sarah UST has become the least believable element of the show, which is really saying something considering that "NSA assassins," the CIA running field ops on US soil, and really ridiculously improbable computer technology are numbered among its basic premises. And I don't see how Sarah's "keeping it professional" excuse is holding water for any of the characters involved, since they all know (as do we, of course) about her romantic entanglement with her previous partner. Hello, two freakin' seasons of Chuck-Sarah-Bryce triangle, anyone? So I have to say I'm disappointed. Especially when the writers at Big Bang Theory (which IMO is a lesser show, though still fun) have put Penny and Leonard together - and UST was much more central to TBBT than it ever has been for Chuck. :smallmad:

Chuck vs. Casey: Granted, Casey at his most amiable is surly and uncommunicative. Granted, his idea of "banter" can be downright sadistic. So maybe it's just me, but Casey seemed a lot more openly hostile to Chuck in these latest three episodes than he has been since... probably the series pilot. The character also seems to be in danger of becoming a parody, which would really be a shame. :smallannoyed:

((EDIT: After re-watching, I've changed my mind - there are significant cracks in Casey's facade, such as when he reads Sarah the riot act in "Pink Slip" for not making a clean break with Chuck. So it looks like it's just Chuck and Sarah who've totally regressed. ))

Chuck vs. the Buy More: This was the other big thing I was dreading, but it worked better (for me, anyway) than I expected it to. It makes sense to me that the CIA/NSA/whomever would want Chuck back at the Buy More, which is already wired for surveillance and linked to Castle - it's easier to tell the asset to shut up and go back to Buy More than to redo all of that at another location. When Awesome found out about Chuck's double life last year, he immediately assumed that the Buy More job was just Chuck's cover. Now that's true. So, progress (at least a little bit). :smallcool:

Chuck vs. Emmett: On a related note, not only am I fine with the way Emmett was handled, I'm not sure it could have gone any other way. From a budgetary perspective, one less recurring character = money saved. From a storytelling perspective, the function of the character last year was to make the Buy More an increasingly unpleasant place to work, eventually motivating both Morgan and Chuck to walk out at the end of Season 2; now, his mission accomplished, Emmett has to exit the picture before they can return. The manner of his departure also makes sense to me: Emmett wasn't going to choose to leave, as he was happy where he was; and he wasn't likely to be maneuvered or manipulated into leaving, as the character demonstrated last season that he was simply better at scheming than anyone else at the Buy More. So, violence. I also thought it was very fitting that the ultimate cause of his death was his fondness for playing the tough guy. Even back in Season 2, you just knew that sooner or later he was going to try that on the wrong person. Sure enough. :smallamused:

Chuck vs. Awesome: "Captain Awesome" is the number one reason to not worry about Casey going all one-dimensional, because Devin could have been a one-dimensional stock character just as easily, as either a Big Damn Hero or as a buffoon. But he screws up often enough that we remember he's human, but not so often that we wonder why an apparently level-headed and well-adjusted (not to mention freaking gorgeous) woman like Ellie would choose to marry him.

Chuck vs. the Fanservice: Speaking of gorgeous women, this is one of the things about the show that I hope never changes. And that's all I have to say about that. :smallbiggrin:

For would-be viewers overseas: have you tried the show's official Web site (http://www.chuckmeout.com/)? How about the network's site (http://www.nbc.com/)? Both of those host episodes for free. Legally, even. And they might be accessible from outside the US if Hulu isn't, I guess.

[Cheesegear]

He's [Bruce Campbell] like the Batman of real life actors.

Could've sworn that was Liam Neeson...

[Archonic Energy]

more spoilers & Speculation...

Languages, Check.
Markmanship, Check.

With Morgan now being an EFFECTIVE ass-man (i love that call back!) i'm wondering how the dynamics at the Buy More will change.


So what else is in the new Intersect?

[Muz]

So what else is in the new Intersect?

My guess? Whatever needs to be. :smallwink:

[BRC]

My guess? Whatever needs to be. :smallwink:
Every skill they figured it would be useful for a spy to have, which is pretty much everything.

I very much enjoyed this last episode, it's nice to see some character growth from Chuck, without completely abandoning his roots as the guy whose in way over his head.

[kpenguin]

So, that bit at the end...

I'm assuming Shaw putting on the ring is indicative that he's a double agent for... the Ring?

The only other interpretation I could think is that's Shaw's wedding band or something that he took off after entering the spy business, or possibly when his significant other died as a result of him being a spy. Seeing Chuck and co. around the table inspired him to put it back on.

...

But, nah, he's probably just a double agent for the Ring.

[BRC]

So, that bit at the end...

I'm assuming Shaw putting on the ring is indicative that he's a double agent for... the Ring?

The only other interpretation I could think is that's Shaw's wedding band or something that he took off after entering the spy business, or possibly when his significant other died as a result of him being a spy. Seeing Chuck and co. around the table inspired him to put it back on.

...

But, nah, he's probably just a double agent for the Ring.

I'm going for ring double agent personally, he leaves Chuck hanging in the hopes of getting him killed (Thus depriving the government of a key asset), when Casey and Sarah move in to assist, he realizes he has to do something. He shows up at the last minute, just in time to kill Whatshername before she can be captured and interrogated.

[kpenguin]

I'm going for ring double agent personally, he leaves Chuck hanging in the hopes of getting him killed (Thus depriving the government of a key asset), when Casey and Sarah move in to assist, he realizes he has to do something. He shows up at the last minute, just in time to kill Whatshername before she can be captured and interrogated.

Yeah, like I said. Probably a ring agent.

Still, that was a tweest that could have been seen a mile away, so I'm hoping its not.

[Mr._Blinky]

I actually kinda' assumed it meant he was married/engaged at one point, or possibly is still married. Seeing Chuck and Co. together as a family made him miss his own, especially based off of Sarah's "makes you realize you have something to lose" comment. My guess based on that is that he learned that lesson first-hand at some point, and now no longer considers himself to have anything to lose.

Also, my personal little speculation on Anna's disappearance:
Her "running off with a class-mate" thing was a really poor way to get rid of a character, especially since it was off-screen and she'd been in the title credits. My guess? Someone (CIA or Ring) recruited her, since Casey and Chuck saw first-hand how well she can fight near the beginning of Season 2, including Casey recommending her for possible field operations. It would just fit really well in the show if she showed up as a guest-star in a later episode, now a part of the spy world.

[kpenguin]

I actually kinda' assumed it meant he was married/engaged at one point, or possibly is still married. Seeing Chuck and Co. together as a family made him miss his own, especially based off of Sarah's "makes you realize you have something to lose" comment. My guess based on that is that he learned that lesson first-hand at some point, and now no longer considers himself to have anything to lose.

That was my first guess, but him being an agent of the Ring seems more likely. I hope the engaged/married thing is true, though.


Also, my personal little speculation on Anna's disappearance:
Her "running off with a class-mate" thing was a really poor way to get rid of a character, especially since it was off-screen and she'd been in the title credits. My guess? Someone (CIA or Ring) recruited her, since Casey and Chuck saw first-hand how well she can fight near the beginning of Season 2, including Casey recommending her for possible field operations. It would just fit really well in the show if she showed up as a guest-star in a later episode, now a part of the spy world.

Oh please let this be so. I HATE HATE HATE the way they just brushed off Anna that way after how her relationship with Morgan was developed last year.

[Muz]

That was my first guess, but him being an agent of the Ring seems more likely. I hope the engaged/married thing is true, though.



Oh please let this be so. I HATE HATE HATE the way they just brushed off Anna that way after how her relationship with Morgan was developed last year.

Ugh. I'm sorry, but that sounds to me like as bad of an idea as the producers' original plan of making Awesome an enemy spy instead of the regular (but awesome!) guy he turned out to be.

[Mr._Blinky]

Ugh. I'm sorry, but that sounds to me like as bad of an idea as the producers' original plan of making Awesome an enemy spy instead of the regular (but awesome!) guy he turned out to be.

Uh, what does?

On a continuation of the topic of the last episode:
Yeah, I'm finding it really unlikely at this point that the ring meant Shaw was a Ring operative. Especially because of A) the timing, B) he pulled it out of the kind of box engagement rings traditionally come in, and C) come on, do you really think the Ring would identify their agents by something that obvious? I mean, I think there's better ways of indicating that someone's a double-agent than having them carrying around a ring 24/7, and I especially doubt the guy would just decide to put it on while watching them to...I don't know, look menacing in private?

[Muz]

Uh, what does?

The Anna thing in the spoilered quote. (Forgot there was a bit of Shaw mention in there, too.) :smallsmile: ...Though come to think of it, I don't like the Shaw idea, either, but my dislike for it is less. :smallwink:

[nosignal]

So, was the whole "I hate guns" thing from Shaw a reference to Superman (does he have a "no kill" policy too? I really don't know)? It just seemed random and plain weird ,considering he doesn't mind pointing them at his own colleagues, for a superspy to say that. Or am I just plainhttp://www.grandmemories.com/smilies/lex-luthor-wrong.jpg

[Philistine]

Anna Wu Who?
I agree that it's disappointing to see a former series regular unceremoniously brushed away offscreen. But then, she was pretty badly underutilized last season - there were episodes where she had one or two lines, or none, or didn't even appear (like the finale). I suspect the writers just didn't know what to do with her, and therefore they did nothing. But at least the character's not dead, so there's a chance she could recur at some point. (For maximum entertainment value, that should be sometime after Morgan starts dating someone new. :smallbiggrin:)
Shaw-Shanking
I'm not sure what to make of the character yet, but I'm cautiously optimistic. Chuck (the show) needed to reintroduce the element of danger from within the team, since Casey has shown he'll back Chuck and Sarah even in the face of direct orders to the contrary. And Chuck (the character) needs someone to occasionally kick him in the ass and force him out of his comfort zone if he's ever going to become a "real" spy - and both Casey and Sarah seem a bit too comfortable to fill that role. All of which gives rise to a bizarre and improbable thought: what if Shaw is supposed to be Casey's 49-B?

As for the ring he pulled out at the end of the ep, I'm in the "tragic past" camp. For one, him being a Ring operative just seems too obvious (and also a little tired). For two, at the end of the previous episode he was giving orders to General Beckman, which she was obeying despite her protests - so if he is one of the bad guys, then the good guys are toast. Meanwhile, he's just been double-teamed by chuck and Sarah on "the importance of friends and family," and now he's stuck on surveillance cam duty watching (extended) Clan Bartowski gathering around the table...

Spoiler for future episodes
On the other hand, rumor has it that Shaw is also supposed to be a love interest for Sarah at some point. So chances are that his run on the show ends with him evil and/or dead.

[Harr]

[...] rumor has it that Shaw is also supposed to be a love interest for Sarah at some point.

Honestly, if they do that, which would be the absolutely most predictable, unoriginal, trite, tired, corny, hacky, worn out, going-through-the-motions cliched thing they could possibly come up with, then pretty much anything's on the table as far as being predictable is concerned.

[Archonic Energy]

new episode, new thoughts... really spoileriffic

the woman Chuck met on the plane HAS to be a ring operative... i mean a mission so obviously comprimised it begging to be a set-up!

Casey's brainwashing of Lester... so much fun.
also it shows Casey is starting to enjoy his cover!

the nunchucks... heh. :smallamused:

Shaw's wife... :smallfrown:

also. I HAVE THE JOYSTICK/THROTTLE SARAH USED! it's a Saitek X52 Pro... :smallbiggrin:

[Rockphed]

Honestly, if they do that, which would be the absolutely most predictable, unoriginal, trite, tired, corny, hacky, worn out, going-through-the-motions cliched thing they could possibly come up with, then pretty much anything's on the table as far as being predictable is concerned.

Wait, how is being predictable off the table for Chuck? Albeit, I have only seen the last 9 episodes and the first ~13, so I don't really know what is going on, but lots of what I find fun is that the show is Chuck(our likeable geek) thrust into horrendously cliched spy drama, that he proceeds to beat up because he is SMARTER than SUPERGENIUSES and dangerously (though sometimes wrong) genresavvy. I mean just look at the pilot. He beats a bomb by downloading virus laden pr0n onto it and calls it good. If his enemies ever learned that he was actually a member of a buy-more nerd herd, they would die laughing.

As for Shaw's ring, I am going to go with it being a wedding band for his dead wife. Which wife died because he let his fear of guns get in the way of saving her. Hence Shaw's frequent admonitions to stop being a pansy.

[BRC]

new episode, new thoughts... really spoileriffic

the woman Chuck met on the plane HAS to be a ring operative... i mean a mission so obviously comprimised it begging to be a set-up!

Casey's brainwashing of Lester... so much fun.
also it shows Casey is starting to enjoy his cover!

the nunchucks... heh. :smallamused:

Shaw's wife... :smallfrown:

also. I HAVE THE JOYSTICK/THROTTLE SARAH USED! it's a Saitek X52 Pro... :smallbiggrin:



Agreed. My thought was that she was either a Ring Agent, or a CIA agent Shaw put on the plane to provide Backup in case Chuck needed it.

Chuck fencing was probably the best part of the episode, but the best line goes to "I didn't get a chance to use my Nunchucks.

[golentan]

but the best line goes to "I didn't get a chance to use my Nunchucks.


Personally, I thought the best line went to "Insurgents? I hate insurgents."

But yeah, my money on the new girl is actually for love interest tied up in something she doesn't know about. A la Sandwich Shop girl back in season 1.

[Rockphed]

Sandwich Shop girl was awesome. As was the title of the episode where they put her on a bus.

What sort of rules does this thread have for spoilers? Is it spoil stuff until it is out on Hulu, or until the next week, or what? I just finished watching the episode on Hulu, so I just want to blab. Also, I'm sad about being right about Shaw's ring. :smallfrown:

[kpenguin]

Hmmm it seems reading wikipedia episode summaries is a bit of a spoiler alert.

The summary for "Chuck Versus the Mask" reads:


Chuck must protect Hannah when they find themselves partners on a misson. Meanwhile, Morgan and Ellie continue their mission to get to the bottom of Chuck’s secretive and strange behavior

It seems suspicion of Hannah being a spy is not unfounded.

[Fawkes]

Oh sweet, a Chuck thread.

I love Chuck.

Also, regarding Anna:
I read in an interview that they're going to bring her back, at least for a little while.

[Sneak]

Regarding Hannah:
I'm pretty sure she's not an agent. Even the wording of this episode description:

"Chuck must protect Hannah when they find themselves partners on a misson. Meanwhile, Morgan and Ellie continue their mission to get to the bottom of Chuck’s secretive and strange behavior."

Makes it sound like she's not a spy, she just gets caught up in some of Chuck's spy business and he needs to protect her.

Regarding the latest episode:
I really enjoyed this one. Although the last episode was pretty good as well, I think the show has really found its footing again after a bit of a shaky start.

My only issue with it was Sarah's "Is it?" at the end of the episode being a little heavy-handed. I think we could tell her response to Casey just by reading the expression on her face, and it would've been a bit less anvilicous that way.

Actually, I'm not really liking Sarah as a whole as much this season, maybe because she always just seems worried about everything, and part of her appeal (at least to me) in the first two seasons was the mix of professionalism, fun/humor, and emotion. Now it seems like she's all emotion.

Still, a great episode, and I'm looking forward to where the season takes us from here. In particular, I'm hoping Morgan and Ellie's super sleuthing gets somewhere.

[Fawkes]

Regarding the latest episode:
Was it just me, or did this episode seem more... dramatic than usual? Left us with a real Downer Ending (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DownerEnding), too.

[KuReshtin]

I really need to catch up on my Chuck episodes. Just only started watching it this weekend, and have so far only finished S01E09.. i'm thinking I'll try to get about 4-5 episodes in each evening, which will mean I'll be caught up sometime next week. if I can find the first few episodes of S03, that is.

[Jerthanis]

Ugh, why would they cast Kristen Kreuk? I'm not a fan of this decision. I watched seven seasons of Smallville and got sick of her saying, "Friends are honest with each other" and "I don't want to be lied to"...

Although I can't blame how much I hated Lana Lang entirely on her actress, because a lot of it was the writers making Superman such a joke whenever she was involved.

If she ends up being Chuck's kryptonite like she was Superman's, I'm going to throw my hands up in frustration.



Chuck vs. Awesome: "Captain Awesome" is the number one reason to not worry about Casey going all one-dimensional, because Devin could have been a one-dimensional stock character just as easily, as either a Big Damn Hero or as a buffoon. But he screws up often enough that we remember he's human, but not so often that we wonder why an apparently level-headed and well-adjusted (not to mention freaking gorgeous) woman like Ellie would choose to marry him.

Well, to be perfectly fair, he's every bit as gorgeous as she is if not more.

[Philistine]

@KuReshtin: I'd be more surprised if you couldn't find them online somewhere, to be honest.

@Jerthanis: I wouldn't dream of arguing the point, except to quibble about the "more gorgeous" bit. IMO, more gorgeous than Sarah Lancaster is a pretty high bar to try to get over.

[Mr._Blinky]

By the way, why has no one noticed that in the span of about two or three episodes, we now have both Superman and Lana Lang on the show?

[Rockphed]

I really need to catch up on my Chuck episodes. Just only started watching it this weekend, and have so far only finished S01E09.. i'm thinking I'll try to get about 4-5 episodes in each evening, which will mean I'll be caught up sometime next week. if I can find the first few episodes of S03, that is.

The first few episodes of season 3 are on hulu if you have access to that. Otherwise, I haven't got a clue where to look. Edit: And you claim to live in Scotland so no Hulu for you. :(

[KuReshtin]

The first few episodes of season 3 are on hulu if you have access to that. Otherwise, I haven't got a clue where to look. Edit: And you claim to live in Scotland so no Hulu for you. :(

Oh, i'm sure I'll be able to find the episodes of the 3rd series before I get to them.
And I don't claim to live in Scotland. I am stating it. :smalltongue:

[Archonic Energy]

By the way, why has no one noticed that in the span of about two or three episodes, we now have both Superman and Lana Lang on the show?

huh?
when was Dean Cane on? :smalltongue:

[Sneak]

Oh, i'm sure I'll be able to find the episodes of the 3rd series before I get to them.
And I don't claim to live in Scotland. I am stating it. :smalltongue:

*cough*sidereel (http://www.sidereel.com/_home)*cough*watch-series (http://watch-series.com/)*cough*

I've sure got a weird cough today.

[Fawkes]

Okay, I am loving the cheesy Ring silhouettes. It's like the Guild of the Calamitous Intent meets Dr. Claw.

[Zocelot]

Yep, I thought the board of shadowy figures was a little cheesy too. I also didn't like how suddenly Sarah had trouble pretending to be on a date with Shaw. It was just last episode where one of the minor subthemes was that she was really good at seducing guys.

[Fawkes]

Yep, I thought the board of shadowy figures was a little cheesy too.

Wasn't it great? :smallbiggrin:

[SinisterPenguin]

Oh, yeah, I loved the cheesy Ring scene at the end. It just screamed "spy show" in the best possible way. :smalltongue:

[kpenguin]

Heh, Chuck called Shaw "Superman-y looking":smallbiggrin:

[Fawkes]

Heh, Chuck called Shaw "Superman-y looking":smallbiggrin:

That had me laughing, too.

[Sneak]

Hah, yeah, that was good.

Oh, and for anyone paying attention, I'm pretty sure the shadowy Ring place is the same place Vincent went to talk to the big baddies in Chuck vs. the Predator. Either that or the Chuck people really liked that set.

I thought the episode was decent. I've never seen Kreuk in anything before, but I think Hannah is adorable. Honestly, I like her better than Sarah right now—Sarah's just becoming stale as a character. First of all, she's fallen for EVERY SINGLE DUDE that she's worked with for more than a day (excluding Casey): Bryce, Chuck, Cole "James Bond" Barker, Shaw. Come on! You're supposed to be the professional one, right? Act like it!

Secondly, it seems to me like the writers are just letting Sarah's romantic relationships define her instead of giving her an actual personality this season beyond "annoying." Hell, she hasn't really done anything all season but whine and worry and occasionally share a meaningful look with her latest romantic interest.

And thirdly, I don't even understand her relationship with Chuck anymore. Season 1 and Season 2, I get it, they had to keep it in their pants to be "professional" and not endanger the asset. This season? First she was mad about Chuck refusing to run away with her, which I don't really buy in the first place (on either end)—but she seems to be over that now. And she clearly still has feelings for Chuck. What's keeping them apart now?

Furthermore, I don't see how getting together with Shaw is any better than getting together with Chuck would have been in Season 1. Shaw is her boss, after all.

...

...Okay, rant over. I really do still enjoy the show, but the whole Chuck/Sarah thing? The writers are just afraid of moving forward.

[Philistine]

Yep, I thought the board of shadowy figures was a little cheesy too. I also didn't like how suddenly Sarah had trouble pretending to be on a date with Shaw. It was just last episode where one of the minor subthemes was that she was really good at seducing guys.
Yeah, but if you noticed, last week she didn't actually seduce the guy - instead, she'd tranq him seconds into anything that resembled "action." Somehow I don't think that would've been her MO in the past.


@Sneak: Agreed on pretty much all points. I think I've even ranted about one or two of them myself.

I know that Chuck/Sarah is the show's "official" couple, but I've gotten to the point now where I hope those two characters don't end up together. I mean, think of the children! (The stupid, stupid children that they would have together.)

Also, I'm disappointed in the seeming resolution of the "Ellie and Morgan Investigate" subplot. The explanation they settled on doesn't account for, say, Chuck's odd behavior before Hannah entered the picture; or the way Chuck apparently disappeared into thin air from the Home Theater room when Morgan tried to chase him down. I really, really hope this isn't over.

[Muz]

"We are the Ring. Resistance is futile."

White space!

More white space!

[Jerthanis]

Chucking hell, what a bad episode.

Shaw lost his wife, an agent, and warns Sarah against pursuing her feelings for Chuck, then immediately begins hitting on her. She says, "No" and really means "Yes" for no explainable reason. With Bryce she had a long and storied history, and was mostly professional... with Cole it appeared in the end that she had been mostly just trying not to insult him, and had never really been interested in him (unless I'm forgetting something, it's been a while since I saw S2).

After some of the extraordinarily tender scenes between Chuck and Sarah at the end of last season, some of this snapback is just going too far, and really ruining the potential of them realistically getting back together.

And if you're going to sacrifice the unresolved sexual tension that drove so much of their interaction, why would you sacrifice it in a way that just trashes both characters in the process?

I think a big source of the lack of awesome in this episode was the lack of Awesome.

[Lord Seth]

The weird thing about being a newcomer to this show (this was my third episode, I started this season) is that I thought the episodes were great, then go online to see everyone complaining about how they contradicted or didn't work with previous episodes. Just a bit of a weird phenomenon for me...

I loved the final scene with the Ring though. I'm hoping they were deliberately going for over-the-top and cheesy, because that's what it was, and that's why I loved it.

[Dienekes]

Ehh, I'm about the most unromantic person you can get so the plot of having the main couple not be together doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Overall though, average episode. Some quirky funny bits, mostly in the beginning and the end. The rest was, just ok. Decent spy stuff but nothing that we haven't seen before. And Casey really needed to blow something up, come on teasing us with it like that was just mean.

The final ring scene was awesome though.

[Archonic Energy]

... stupid winter olympics!

[Fawkes]

Chuck's back!

Man, things never go well for Chuck, do they?

That preview was pretty intense, though.

[kpenguin]

Yeah. Chuck is just a woobie machine.

[chiasaur11]

Way to be a jerk, Chuck.

On the rather more notable upside, Casey is, as always, a tremendous badass.

[Mr._Blinky]

About the most recent episode:
Gaaaaaah, I hate it when TV shows do this! Yes, I know, Sarah and Chuck are going to end up together; it's basically written into the show as the end result. But can he have a relationship outside of that that lasts more than two episodes? Seriously?

It's like how on Scrubs J.D. was constantly getting together with a new girlfriend, and it was heralded as this huge thing the episode they get together...and then they break up at the end of the next one. I'm sorry, that loses any impact it might have had. If he had dated Hannah for a good chunk of the season, and then broken up with her, it might have been different. As is, it really just feels like a pointless subplot, since nothing was really developed other than the fact that he still loves Sarah, which, big surprise, isn't really a new development. Seriously, if they'd given the relationship at least two more episodes, it would have worked; hell, they could even have started hinting at his reluctance in this episode and then gone on for a couple more episodes and it still would have been better than the piss-weak amount of time they spent on it.

OTOH, with regards to next week's preview:
If handled correctly, this episode could actually be pretty awesome. My hope is that it'll give Chuck a chance to show off some character development in the form of proving that he can do spy-stuff without the Intersect. If Chuck can save himself without needing to flash, it'll go a long way to showing that he's not just a human computer, but is actually coming into his own as a competent spy.

[Jerthanis]

About the most recent episode:
Gaaaaaah, I hate it when TV shows do this! Yes, I know, Sarah and Chuck are going to end up together; it's basically written into the show as the end result. But can he have a relationship outside of that that lasts more than two episodes? Seriously?

I kind of think that the point of Hannah was to further drive home the point that Chuck is increasingly isolated from his former lifestyle, and that spy life is really hard on him. It's supposed to be the chapter where Daniel-san accepts training from the helpful Mr. Silver for the upcoming tournament, and then Mr. Silver ends up teaching Daniel-san the lessons of aggression and pain.

It's here so later when the hero rallies, the audience can cheer.

Then again, it's basically just draining Chuck of everything that made him lovable previously, both for the audience and for Sarah.

[Corvus]

Though I've heard about Chuck for some time I only just got around to watching it - and viewed all episodes so far in a bit over a week.

I like it so far. Adam Baldwin is, well, Adam Baldwin. Captain Awesome is muy awesome. its got hot chicks often in their underwear.

Little disappointed with the Chuck-Sarah plot as it currently stands. It can be (and is) dragged out a little too long now. just get them together. It won't ruin the show. Given how Sarah seems to shack up with near everyone she works with, her excuses that it would be unprofessional seem a little thin.

[kpenguin]

Holy <bleep> on a <bleep> sandwich, I loved that episode.

[chiasaur11]

Holy <bleep> on a <bleep> sandwich, I loved that episode.

And next week?

It's the entire world against John Casey.

Pity the poor world.

[golentan]

Holy <bleep> on a <bleep> sandwich, I loved that episode.

Oh, Yeah! "That's my best friend!"

[Dienekes]

That was a hilarious episode, loved the Buy More crowd as usual.

Very excited for next episode though.

Also, I noticed in the sneak peak for the new episode Shaw isn't tied up with Chuck and Sarah, thoughts?

[Fawkes]

Great episode. Watched it with a friend of a friend who was unfamiliar with the show. I think it hooked him.

[Lord of the Helms]

For would-be viewers overseas: have you tried the show's official Web site (http://www.chuckmeout.com/)? How about the network's site (http://www.nbc.com/)? Both of those host episodes for free. Legally, even. And they might be accessible from outside the US if Hulu isn't, I guess.

Nope, 'fraid not. NBC's online program doesn't work abroad, at least not in Germany or Russia. It's because of the stupid, stupid "exclusive distribution rights" for a certain market given out to whoever licenses the series for broadcast in another country. Which is just stupid, because someone who wants to watch the english original of Chuck is not going to settle for the german localization that is one to two series behind (for comparison, season two just started in Germany, while you can already get the DVD in/imported from the UK), and also, y'know, localized.

The only US network whose online broadcasts actually worked for me, so far, was Comedy Central, which is some consolation at least, since they have The Daily Show and all.

[Mr._Blinky]

Great episode, plus now we know that apparently Zach Levi can direct, since this was the episode they gave to him.

[Archonic Energy]

New Episode stuff here
WOW!
even more people know about Chuck... it's fast becoming the NSA/CIA's worst kept secret :smallwink:

also looks like Awesome & Ellie may get downgrades to "reccuring characters" though i think Awesome would be brilliant in Doctors without Borders... it suits the character.

and Flashing on Duck Hunt... that's just cheating!
:smallbiggrin:

[Jerthanis]

Between that episode and the preview for next episode, I've gotta say, Chuck is awesome again.

I'll really regret seeing less of Awesome if he goes, but I really did like how even Casey thinks he's Awesome.

It seems like he should just go ahead and tell Ellie at this point, since he's decided he can trust pretty much everyone else in his life.

I'm predicting that next episode, Chuck will risk it all for friendship, and everything will turn out awesome until the last 3 minutes where something dark and sinister is hinted at.

[Lord of Syntax]

Between that episode and the preview for next episode, I've gotta say, Chuck is awesome again.

I'll really regret seeing less of Awesome if he goes, but I really did like how even Casey thinks he's Awesome.

It seems like he should just go ahead and tell Ellie at this point, since he's decided he can trust pretty much everyone else in his life.

I'm predicting that next episode, Chuck will risk it all for friendship, and everything will turn out awesome until the last 3 minutes where something dark and sinister is hinted at.

OH SNAP! :smalltongue:

[Sneak]

Just watched the new episode. And it was, well, awesome.

Easily the best of the season so far. And Levi did a nice job for a first time director—the only thing that bothered me was the weird fadey-ness during the scene with Casey entering the hotel room after throwing the flashbang. The rest of it was spot-on. Although up until this point I felt like Chuck had been letting me down, this was a return to the heights of season two and makes me hopeful for the future.

...even though the guy who wrote this episode is apparently leaving Chuck now to become the showrunner for V. Which is sad, because he also wrote Chuck vs. Santa Claus, which is another of my favorite episodes.

Come on, man, why are you wasting your time on garbage like V? Chuck needs you!

[thorgrim29]

So, theories on the mystery caller? Great episode, I really liked how it used all the character development Morgan has had.

[Dienekes]

So, theories on the mystery caller?

Knows why Casey is that guy that the mob bosses thought he was. Or is in some way related to that name. Yeah, not so fully developed a theory but it's all I got.

[Philistine]

This was a fun episode. Very amusing for the most part, especially... ... especially watching Chuck try to do damage control to limit how much Morgan finds out, until he finally breaks down and spills the whole deal.

One thing bugs me about that, though. I'd have said the core conflict of the show, the one thing that's really and truly vital to the premise, is the tension between Chuck's civilian life and his spy life. This is the engine that drives the whole show; and Chuck's inability to tell either Ellie or Morgan the truth about oh so much - for their own protection, even! - is far more critical than the apparently never-ending (and IMO increasingly uninteresting) Chuck/Sarah 'Will They/Won't They' soap opera. But this is the conflict they move to resolve, while choosing to sustain the romance schtick? Aaargh.

On a completely unrelated note, did Shaw not debrief Chuck at all after retaking Castle from the Ring cell? Those were not high-level guys - meaning somebody sent them. That means that somebody over in Ring-land knows there's a secret base accessed through the Buy More. They know about Shaw's connection to it. They know who Walker and Casey are, by sight and by name. They strongly suspect (at the very least) that Chuck is the mysterious "Agent Carmichael." Whether or not those particular Ring operatives had a chance to report back to the mothership, that whole operation is blown wide open; Shaw is talking "offensive" when he ought to be talking "evacuation," if he had any sense at all.

Next topic jump: Was it just me, or did the "Revolution at the Buy More" B-plot feel like a somewhat heavy-handed meta-commentary on the way the show got renewed last year? Eh, probably just me.

Last but not least: Casey is going to be the bad guy next week? Colonel John Casey, working for The Ring? Colonel Casey, whose special ops team was wiped out by a Ring assassin at the end of last year, and who most definitely is a guy who would hold a grudge? The same Casey who sanitized his reports to General Beckman all last year, and who at the end of the year participated in a rogue operation, because of his increasingly strong personal loyalties to both Sarah and Chuck? I can't wait to see how they try to justify that.

[Jerthanis]

Mystery caller is the Ring, John Casey used to be a Ring agent before he defected back to the good guys. Now they've got leverage or blackmail and he's going to play along long enough to kill every last one of them.

Chuck and Sarah are dispatched to stop him, only Chuck believes in him. That belief pays off in the end. That's my prediction regarding the next episode.



One thing bugs me about that, though. I'd have said the core conflict of the show, the one thing that's really and truly vital to the premise, is the tension between Chuck's civilian life and his spy life. This is the engine that drives the whole show; and Chuck's inability to tell either Ellie or Morgan the truth about oh so much - for their own protection, even! - is far more critical than the apparently never-ending (and IMO increasingly uninteresting) Chuck/Sarah 'Will They/Won't They' soap opera. But this is the conflict they move to resolve, while choosing to sustain the romance schtick? Aaargh.


Yeah, for some reason the writers of TV shows think that people can dance around each other for years without culminating a relationship but still maintain a peak level of attraction to one another.

Conflicts which arise from threatening a romance are less interesting than complications arising from threatening a bromance, on the simple logic that romances are inherently unstable relationships subject to violent change on a regular basis. Meanwhile a bromance is stable and enduring in its natural state.


Oh hey, whatever happened to Fulcrum anyway? Wasn't their network huge and enduring, and they only managed to take down one of their lead scientists, leaving many rogue agents unaccounted for? Why is it "The Ring" 24/7 now with no 'ex-Fulcrum' guys mentioned?

[Fawkes]

Fulcrum is part of the ring. Some of the ring agents they're dealing with are probably fulcrum related, but the Ring is the bigger concern.

[Dienekes]

One thing bugs me about that, though. I'd have said the core conflict of the show, the one thing that's really and truly vital to the premise, is the tension between Chuck's civilian life and his spy life. This is the engine that drives the whole show; and Chuck's inability to tell either Ellie or Morgan the truth about oh so much - for their own protection, even! - is far more critical than the apparently never-ending (and IMO increasingly uninteresting) Chuck/Sarah 'Will They/Won't They' soap opera. But this is the conflict they move to resolve, while choosing to sustain the romance schtick? Aaargh.

Why are we spoilering this? Oh well, might as well continue the trend. I agree 100%, and if most of the tension was about Chuck and Sarah I probably wouldn't have made it through season 2. I personally don't understand why every new comedy needs to have a tense core romance these days, and I have yet to find one that I actually care about (the romance, not the comedies). Besides having Awesome being the only one who knew had its own hilarious moments, and I feel that Awesome being able to talk to Morgan would relieve some of that tension as well. So while the episode was hilarious, many of the events that take place look irksome for the future of the show. I think as someone pointed out up top, why haven't they just told Ellie? Everyone else seems to know, one more person loyal to Chuck won't hurt more than Morgan.

Still I'll remain and watch, if it ever gets too romancy and less hilarious I can always drop it shaking my head sadly.

[Hawriel]

The musical chairs on again off again romance wank is getting to me. It's a plot cruch that writers use to build tention. God I wish relationships could develop normaly. Doesn't matter if it lasts or not, as long as it doesn't play out like a 14 year old wrote it.

I was happy to see Kreuk on the show. Of corse her story ark gets the rug pulled out from under her. God forbid Chuck has a relationship with some one who is normal.

Is it just me or is Chuck becoming more of a jittery scooby doo character when talking to girls or interacting with bad guys?

[Jerthanis]

The musical chairs on again off again romance wank is getting to me. It's a plot cruch that writers use to build tention. God I wish relationships could develop normaly. Doesn't matter if it lasts or not, as long as it doesn't play out like a 14 year old wrote it.

I think more than the fact that the show is putting their relationship off, it's doing so much less well than it used to. For example, in season 2 there was an episode where Chuck and Sarah posed as a married couple to infiltrate a Fulcrum owned neighborhood, and Chuck was made uncomfortable with her ability to gain and shed identities, which I interpreted as him believing he didn't really know her. He ended that episode resolving to move on and bury his feelings. That was cool. Another time he saw Sarah kill an unarmed man in cold blood and was terrified and disillusioned of her. That was also cool.

Now it's like, "Oh, can't date Sarah because... well, because Superman has moved in on her"


I was happy to see Kreuk on the show. Of corse her story ark gets the rug pulled out from under her. God forbid Chuck has a relationship with some one who is normal.

Really? What is there to like about Kruek? She was the weakest link in Smallville's cast and then played a terrible, flat Chun-Li in a Street Fighter movie that somehow managed to be worse than Van Damme's version.

She may not be my least favorite actor, but she's probably on the top 10.



Is it just me or is Chuck becoming more of a jittery scooby doo character when talking to girls or interacting with bad guys?

I've been watching Chuck season 1 with some friends who are new to the show and I can only tell you that this is a trend that has noticably taken a sharp decline since then.

[Archonic Energy]

New Episode stuff
"Fairly warned ye be"

NOOOOO! poor John. :smallfrown:

[Jerthanis]

Man, it feels like the whole show is coming to a wrap up.

On the one hand, cudoes for writers who care about a satisfying conclusion to story elements. On the other, why's it gotta end?

[Fawkes]

Man, it feels like the whole show is coming to a wrap up.

On the one hand, cudoes for writers who care about a satisfying conclusion to story elements. On the other, why's it gotta end?

Actually, there are 9 more episodes in this season. It may reach a conclusion then, but in any case, Chuck's 'final exam' will not be the end of the show.

[thegurullamen]

Man but Sarah is the worst spy ever. Romantic entanglements and professionalism aside, her attitude towards killing is just wrong for someone as experienced as she is. Also, it might just be faulty memory on my part, but wasn't part of her season one persona that she was distant and easily detached from the emotional aspect of the job? Wasn't she an uber-pro or something? I guess character development answers part of that. I mean, I can accept that being in love with Chuck brought out her empathy, but that flashback at the end of The Final Test showed that she's always been very emotional about killing. It makes me wonder how she lasted as long as she did in this job.

[thorgrim29]

By being crazy hawt and good at hand to hand combat?

[Dienekes]

Wait... you're basing your opinions on her entire career on a flashback to her very first kill? The one that is agreed by everyone (except Casey)to be a traumatic experience.
Personally I thought it was made obvious that it's not her killing that gets her anymore, it's the idea of turning the lovable Chuck into a cold hearted murderer that she sees herself and other spies as.

[Jerthanis]

It is a bit of an impossible situation she's decided on. She cannot be with Chuck because he's not a spy (since she has zero problem becoming romantically connected with fellow spies!) but the work of spies requires lethal force relatively often. Yet she could never love Chuck if blood washed away his cherub-like innocence. This is hypocritical considering two things: his innocence is only a formality at this point... over the last three years he's been a part of the success of several operations which resulted in people getting killed. There's blood on his hands even if he never pulled the trigger. Also, that she herself is unable to hold herself to the same standard.

I get that Chuck's innocence is important to both of them, but her catch-22 attitude about killing and love is just maddening.

[Lord Seth]

Man, it feels like the whole show is coming to a wrap up.

On the one hand, cudoes for writers who care about a satisfying conclusion to story elements. On the other, why's it gotta end?Low ratings. Chuck's ratings have of late dropped dangerously low, even for NBC.

[Dienekes]

It is a bit of an impossible situation she's decided on. She cannot be with Chuck because he's not a spy (since she has zero problem becoming romantically connected with fellow spies!) but the work of spies requires lethal force relatively often. Yet she could never love Chuck if blood washed away his cherub-like innocence. This is hypocritical considering two things: his innocence is only a formality at this point... over the last three years he's been a part of the success of several operations which resulted in people getting killed. There's blood on his hands even if he never pulled the trigger. Also, that she herself is unable to hold herself to the same standard.

I get that Chuck's innocence is important to both of them, but her catch-22 attitude about killing and love is just maddening.

E-yep. I agree completely, personally I'd rather have them get together and be done with it, and continue on with the goofy humor and tacking down evil spy organizations part. But then I've never liked or cared about the "will they/won't they" romance plots of just about any story I've ever read or watched, so I may not be the appropriate audience here.

[Muz]

Spinoff idea:

Casey & Big Mike form the A-Team.

[Sequinox]

I bought and watched the first season over the summer, and it's become one of my favorite TV shows out there.

So is there anywhere I could watch the second season on the interwebs for free?

I want to keep watching, but...

Yeah.

[thorgrim29]

Legally? dunno, illegally? of course but it's against forum rules

[khoregate]

check hulu or nbc.com they did have series 2 on there for some time not sure if its still there

[Dienekes]

Spinoff idea:

Casey & Big Mike form the A-Team.

I'd watch this. I can just see Big Mike holding a minigun or something.

[Fawkes]

I bought and watched the first season over the summer, and it's become one of my favorite TV shows out there.

So is there anywhere I could watch the second season on the interwebs for free?

I want to keep watching, but...

Yeah.

I'd recommend just buying the DVD. It's totally worth the price of admission.

[Mauther]

I'd watch this. I can just see Big Mike holding a minigun or something.

Only if the minigun was being sold by Subway

[Zocelot]

{scrubbed}

Also, I have started to like Shaw less and less. He started out pretty cool with faking his own death, but he hasn't done anything since.

[Sneak]

Plus, for the last few episodes, his eyes have been inexplicably puffy and red. Does he cry ALL THE TIME?

Oh, and the product placement was definitely in full swing. And as the IGN reviewer said, "I've never been to this magical Subway, where someone brings you your food after you've been seated."

While I did enjoy the episode, it did have some issues beyond Sarah becoming increasingly hypocritical and annoying (which is a theme throughout the whole third season). For example: In seasons 1 and 2, Beckman was prepared to kill Chuck once they rebuilt the Intersect. And now, they're saying that if he fails the final exam, they'll just let him go back to his old life? What? What about the ZILLIONS OF SUPER SECRET GOVERNMENT FILES HE STILL HAS IN HIS HEAD? Seriously? What?

[Dienekes]

{scrubbed}

Also, I have started to like Shaw less and less. He started out pretty cool with faking his own death, but he hasn't done anything since.

Aye, personally for fellow spy possible romantic interest for Sarah, Cole was a more interesting and awesome character.




While I did enjoy the episode, it did have some issues beyond Sarah becoming increasingly hypocritical and annoying (which is a theme throughout the whole third season). For example: In seasons 1 and 2, Beckman was prepared to kill Chuck once they rebuilt the Intersect. And now, they're saying that if he fails the final exam, they'll just let him go back to his old life? What? What about the ZILLIONS OF SUPER SECRET GOVERNMENT FILES HE STILL HAS IN HIS HEAD? Seriously? What?

Beckman has definitely mellowed out from season 1. Letting Casey live after he betrayed the US? Season 1 he'd have been toast or jailed indefinitely. I think her development is partially because the writers like the character and partially because they don't want to start a US government is EVIL! sentiment in their show. Or maybe she's gotten back together with Roan Montgomery, and he's making her a happier women.

[Fawkes]

Oh, and the product placement was definitely in full swing. And as the IGN reviewer said, "I've never been to this magical Subway, where someone brings you your food after you've been seated."

I'm willing to grant them an infinite amount of slack for Subway product placement, considering Subway saved the show.

[Sneak]

I'm willing to grant them an infinite amount of slack for Subway product placement, considering Subway saved the show.

Oh, yeah, I don't have a problem with it. I just found it amusing that the Subway they showed was...not anything like a real Subway. Just like the first class flight with Hannah that was nothing like any of the (admittedly few) first class flights I've ever been on.

@Dienekes: Makes sense. I miss Never-Compromise-Beckman, though. :smallfrown:

[Mr._Blinky]

Oh, yeah, I don't have a problem with it. I just found it amusing that the Subway they showed was...not anything like a real Subway. Just like the first class flight with Hannah that was nothing like any of the (admittedly few) first class flights I've ever been on.

@Dienekes: Makes sense. I miss Never-Compromise-Beckman, though. :smallfrown:

Have you ever been on a trans-continental flight? The first-class section is absurd. You could live in it.

[Mr._Blinky]

While I did enjoy the episode, it did have some issues beyond Sarah becoming increasingly hypocritical and annoying (which is a theme throughout the whole third season). For example: In seasons 1 and 2, Beckman was prepared to kill Chuck once they rebuilt the Intersect. And now, they're saying that if he fails the final exam, they'll just let him go back to his old life? What? What about the ZILLIONS OF SUPER SECRET GOVERNMENT FILES HE STILL HAS IN HIS HEAD? Seriously? What?
Yeah, that's been weirding me out too, just like how they just let him go back to civilian life at the beginning of the season when he flunked spy school. I was just going "Seriously? Are you forgetting how effective he was before? Whether he's full spy material or not, he's still got an Intersect in his head!" This all or nothing approach they have just looks like pure stupidity to me; even if he failed his test, they can still have him just keep doing the same thing he's been doing with no problems.

Also, yeah, I never really liked Shaw as a character. It's just that beyond being a romantic rival, there's just...not really all that much to him. I honestly just don't find myself believing her and Shaw's relationship at all, but I could forgive that if it weren't for the simple fact that there isn't a whole lot else to the character.

And I mean, if you look at past romantic rivals that've come between Chuck and Sarah, the rest kind of make sense: Bryce was her partner for a long time, and was a suave super-spy, while Barker was another suave, badass super-spy. She chose Chuck over both of them, even though she had already been in a romantic relationship with Bryce.

Shaw on the other hand seems to be another attempt at a suave super-spy, except that...he's not all that suave, hasn't really done anything badass since his first appearance, and...really basically just seems inferior to even Bryce and Barker, both of whom Sarah chose to ignore in favor of Chuck. So, I guess the point of this whole rant is...why him? Again, I have no real issue with someone coming between the two of them, I just think that the character they chose to do it was fairly poorly executed.

And yeah, Sarah herself has been pretty annoying overall this season.

[khoregate]

the way her emotions have been al over the place this season anyone would think she was as pregnant as my wife








ps PLEASE SAVE ME FROM PREGNANT LADY MOODS!!!!!

[Dienekes]

Just remember, in a few months you'll be blessed with a darling little child.

Which will do nothing but cry every night, poop, scream, and take all your attention to maintain. And you'll look back at the mood swings knowing how lucky you had it then.

[khoregate]

my child will hit the terrible two's in 2012 so now you know what the mayans were predict the end of the world for !!

[Fawkes]

This is the synopsis wikipedia has for next week's episode:

Chuck, Sarah and Shaw reunite to find the Ring operative behind the death of Shaw's wife. Sarah has faith that Shaw is ready for the mission but Chuck is worried about his emotional stability. Meanwhile, Morgan considers leaving the Buy More.

I'm thinking the promo guys pulled a fast one on us with that one. :smalltongue:

[Derthric]

Not how I would have described the coming episode. Maybe something like "excrement hits blades that are rotating very fast"

A note about shaw, I would discuss the show with a friend of mine and he was a fan of Shaw. He and I would get into a back and forth about how I just
didn't like him and I had no real reason to beyond a general dislike.

Now I know why, he was a fanatic. Last night's episode made it clear for me. He is a man focused on one goal and just that goal, it made his character less dynamic and so his relationship with Sarah really didn't seem to click for me. Part of this has to do with the fact that they only focused on him in work mode and never revealed much else. But it actually makes last night's turn of events believable

[Fawkes]

Yeah, I never really bought the Shaw/Sarah relationship. He never really seemed that interested in her.

[Zocelot]

We know that The Ring was made up largely of government members. Now Shaw knows that the government killed his wife. I think it's likely that it will be revealed that The Ring was still behind his wife's death, seeing as how in recent episodes the government does no wrong.

[Kaiser Omnik]

Awesome episode tonight!

[Dienekes]

Generally, I much prefer the comedy episodes than the drama episodes. But hell this one was awesome (with a lot of well timed humor in it as well).

Personally I hope ring commander gets away, relatively quickly. Mark Sheppard is too awesome to keep down.

Also, the "I see you brought Casey" line was perfect.

[SinisterPenguin]

Well, that was...intense.

[SilentDragoon]

The first 15 to 20 minutes seemed disjointed and I had trouble following what was going on. Paris however was amazing.

[chiasaur11]

Man.

THE PRESIDENT is in on this? Oh. And Shaw. I guess.


Chuck is in so much trouble.

[RationalGoblin]

Hey, so I like Chuck, but I haven't seen it for a while, and unfortunately can't do what I want to do; watch the first season again.

Is there any way to be able to watch the old episodes of Chuck for free? I already tried Hulu, and it's too confusing to use.

[Fawkes]

Unfortunately, I had to miss this week's episode. Does anyone know when they put the new ones up on Hulu?

[kpenguin]

Unfortunately, I had to miss this week's episode. Does anyone know when they put the new ones up on Hulu?

The day after, I think.

[Philistine]

Yes. It should be up in the morning.

@Rational: Your best bet to catch it for free and legally is probably to see if your local public library has the DVDs. Illegal options are officially Not a Fit Subject for Discussion 'Round These Parts.

[Fawkes]

And also, seriously. Don't pirate Chuck.

If you pirate Chuck, you'll make John Casey mad.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8231/chuckjohn.jpg

[kpenguin]

Apparently also if you exceed your bandwidth.

[kusje]

And also, seriously. Don't pirate Chuck.

If you pirate Chuck, you'll make John Casey mad.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa220/NBC_Chuck/chuckjohn.jpg


I think he might have bigger problems if he is finding Hulu hard to use.

[Fawkes]

Apparently also if you exceed your bandwidth.

Serves me right for not rehosting it.

Give me a break, I found it on photobucket.

[Mr._Blinky]

Call off the tank!:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Great episode btw, the only problem being that now I need to wait another 3 weeks before I get my fix.:smallfrown:

[khoregate]

finally



he gets the girl and IN paris..

[Derthric]

http://www.thewb.com/shows/chuck

The WB website hosts older episodes and has for awhile. I got the link right from Hulu so im assuming its legal and all that. Not sure about their availability rules though.

[Zocelot]

The last episode was good, although a bit too cheesy and predictable.

Also, plot hole: Why did Shaw possibly give Beckman the video of him beating up the men when it would show that he was holding back. He should have either not held back, or not videotaped it.

[Yana]

Did anyone else notice that one of the main characters from last night's episode was also "Badger" from Firefly?

[Fawkes]

Okay. This episode was awesome.

Just... just awesome.

[Mr._Blinky]

The last episode was good, although a bit too cheesy and predictable.

Also, plot hole: Why did Shaw possibly give Beckman the video of him beating up the men when it would show that he was holding back. He should have either not held back, or not videotaped it.

That was the one thing that got me: these are trained people he's fighting, and to whom he has no real camaraderie or anything. So, assuming he just didn't go for lethal hits...why didn't he just actually beat the hell out of them? I doubt they really would have held it against him, especially if they were told before-hand, which they obviously were.

[Philistine]

Did anyone else notice that one of the main characters from last night's episode was also "Badger" from Firefly?

Also Romo Lampkin from BSG, etc. Yes, noticed that last week.

Mark Sheppard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sheppard)

[Dienekes]

I believe I made a spoilered message about dear Badger Lampkin last page.

So, yeah I noticed. He makes a great villain.

[chiasaur11]

I believe I made a spoilered message about dear Badger Lampkin last page.

So, yeah I noticed. He makes a great villain.

So did I, for what that's worth.

[thegurullamen]

What I like about this episode is that it makes an excellent end point for the series. Sure, we're not done, but it's just so fitting that, even if everything else the series produces completely sucks, I can point to this episode and say, "Yup. Good run."

[Philistine]

What I like about this episode is that it makes an excellent end point for the series. Sure, we're not done, but it's just so fitting that, even if everything else the series produces completely sucks, I can point to this episode and say, "Yup. Good run."
The same could be (and has been :smallwink:) said of the S2 finale.

I'm withholding judgment on these latest two eps - and indeed S3 as a whole - until I see what they do with the "extra" six episodes this season (and next season, in the unlikely event that the TV Gods are kind despite Chuck's low-and-sinking ratings).

Basically, if the writers gin up yet another ridiculous, contrived excuse to drive Chuck and Sarah apart again, then I will be forced to conclude that they really didn't/don't understand the appeal of the show they created (as I've ranted before, it's not the Chuck/Sarah UST; and despite the ravings of a handful of a few vocal fans around teh Intarwebbz, I suspect that the show's decline in ratings this season may suggest broad-based agreement with this), and will most likely declare everything after S2 to be discontinuity and tune out. This show has always strained my Suspension of disbelief; but now my disbelief is hanging from a fraying thread, and I don't think it'll bear the weight of one more Idiot Ball.

[Mr._Blinky]

Best part about this all? From the previews for after the break, it looks like Casey is taking it on himself to personally mentor Morgan, which means it looks like there will be two sort of sub-teams: Chuck and Sarah, Casey and Morgan. Or else expects hilarity to ensue for poor Casey?:smallbiggrin:

[thegurullamen]

The same could be (and has been :smallwink:) said of the S2 finale.

Yup. I was one of them saying that and I still think, depending on your reaction to the beginning of season three and the (painfully) forced UST-inducing split, it makes a damned fine ending as well. But it's good to have options and I prefer the latter. Now hopefully, the next six episodes won't ruin my love for the series like so many other series' finales have. (Damn you, Heroes, Friends, Married...With Children, season 3 of BSG, every cartoon made before 2002 and Guitar Hero.)

[Sneak]

"As mentioned many times before, originally "Chuck vs. the Other Guy" was going to be the end of a 13-episode third season - and, depending on how things broke, could well have been the very last episode of the series. We now know that there are six more episodes to go this year, and that a fourth season is still quite possible (the ratings ticked up a couple of points last week, and I still believe NBC has too many holes to not renew, even if it's just for another abbreviated season)"

-Alan Sepinwall

So I'm hopeful on the renewal front.

I am wondering how they'll handle the next 6 episodes, though...the season long arcs have mostly been resolved now, and it seems a little late to start a whole new arc (mini-arcs were the death of Veronica Mars, after all).

But hey, I guess I'll just trust the writers until they prove my trust to be misplaced.

About the latest episode and Shaw's fight with the Ring guys...yeah, that is kind of a plot hole/doesn't make any sense. Still, logic has never been the show's strong suit. :smallwink:

I enjoyed the episode regardless.

[Fawkes]

Supposedly, these last few episodes are going to be huge.

Supposedly. :smalltongue:

[Mr._Blinky]

Supposedly, these last few episodes are going to be huge.

Supposedly. :smalltongue:

Well, based off of the fact that Anna is reappearing, I'm banking on my theory that she actually got recruited by the CIA being correct.

Also, huge how? As in awesome, or important to the show, or did they somehow manage to get some weird hour-and-a-half timeslot?:smallconfused:

[Fawkes]

Josh Schwartz said that the story arc in these last six episodes is "the biggest thing we've ever done on the show."

[kpenguin]

So... they're blowing out the rest of the budget on these next 6 episodes?

EDIT: Also, does anyone find it weird that Chuck is an agent of the CIA but his direct superior is General Beckman, who's NSA? Why didn't Beckman recruit Chuck into her own agency?

[Lord Seth]

The same could be (and has been :smallwink:) said of the S2 finale.

I'm withholding judgment on these latest two eps - and indeed S3 as a whole - until I see what they do with the "extra" six episodes this season (and next season, in the unlikely event that the TV Gods are kind despite Chuck's low-and-sinking ratings).I don't think it's any more unlikely that they'll renew it than they'll cancel it. I'd put Chuck's renewal chances at 50/50.

[Mr._Blinky]

BTW, when Casey was talking to Beckman at the end, and shows that he's grabbed the Director, did anyone else go "Nice, Jayne finally got his chance to beat up Badger!":smallbiggrin:

[Jerthanis]

I'm unable to tell what really separated killing the mole from killing Shaw in Sarah's eyes. I mean, in either case Chuck gave them every chance to surrender, and in both cases he was protecting his own life and the lives of others.

It could be that Sarah's issue with his killing the mole was supposed to be a lot more subtle, but after shooting and editing it came off like Sarah was condemning him forever over the issue. Perhaps "You saved me" was supposed to be a statement of forgiveness and trust, not a statement of justification.

I baaaawww'd when Sarah said she fell in love "Some time between fixing my phone and confusing bombs with computer viruses."

Both of those happened in the first episode.


I've been thinking about what was missing in Chuck's transition from Season 1 & 2's "I just want to go back to my normal life, I hate spy work." and Season 3's "I've always wanted to be a spy, what are you talking about?"

If Chuck had just reflected on the life he wanted and decided that he wanted a job utilizing his intelligence and techno-savvy while being well paid and traveling the world... and realized spy work was actually what he wanted on its own merits, it could've been character development. The reason he didn't run away with Sarah could've been lingering doubt that she really wanted him, the belief that they would grow apart over time, or even simple fear of living his life on the lam.

Instead, it just tried to make his reason for wanting to be a spy that he loved Sarah, but he'd loved Sarah back when he wanted a normal life, so that kind of breaks down.

[chiasaur11]

I'm unable to tell what really separated killing the mole from killing Shaw in Sarah's eyes. I mean, in either case Chuck gave them every chance to surrender, and in both cases he was protecting his own life and the lives of others.

It could be that Sarah's issue with his killing the mole was supposed to be a lot more subtle, but after shooting and editing it came off like Sarah was condemning him forever over the issue. Perhaps "You saved me" was supposed to be a statement of forgiveness and trust, not a statement of justification.

I baaaawww'd when Sarah said she fell in love "Some time between fixing my phone and confusing bombs with computer viruses."

Both of those happened in the first episode.





Maybe it was Sarah's own issues with her red test? I mean, she shot someone who might not have had it coming. Chuck doing the same would have brought back unpleasant memories. Shooting Shaw, Sarah knew the why, that every offer had been given, the whole bit.

Not exactly perfect reasoning, but I can sorta almost see it.

[Mr._Blinky]

Maybe it was Sarah's own issues with her red test? I mean, she shot someone who might not have had it coming. Chuck doing the same would have brought back unpleasant memories. Shooting Shaw, Sarah knew the why, that every offer had been given, the whole bit.

Not exactly perfect reasoning, but I can sorta almost see it.


I think it's more a matter of motive, and it does make some sense to me. The difference between the red test and killing Shaw are as follows: the first was an ordered assassination, and one that Sarah felt proved that Chuck had become truly ruthless and willing to do whatever was asked of him, whereas the second was a case of doing something necessary to save someone he loved.

When Chuck was ordered to kill the mole, yes it was for a good reason, and yes they knew for a fact that the guy was evil (if he was just being manipulated he wouldn't have killed his contact like he did), but it was still a cold-blooded assassination. Sure, the guy would have killed him if Casey (or Chuck, as far a Sarah knows) hadn't shot him, but Chuck willingly entered into a situation where the conflict was the mole's life or his own. Shooting the mole in that situation would mean that he had become a full-fledged spy, down to the ruthlessness required to actually carry out such an assassination. Killing Shaw on the other hand was a situation that none of them wanted, and that acted directly to save someone he cared about and who would have otherwise certainly died.

In short, it isn't a question of whether Chuck can kill someone, it's a question of why, and even then it's important that it is his last possible resort.

[khoregate]

re the latest episode.....


MORGAN ROXXORS as a spy :)

[Tiger Duck]

Well Chuck and Sarah are adorable together, but why doesn't he call her by her real name?

[Fawkes]

Aw, dammit, I missed the new episode?

[SilentDragoon]

It's already on hulu, I also missed the first half as I didn't realize it was already back on. I liked it, the interactions between Chuck and Sarah were significantly less awkward/forced than they have been the rest of the season and even without the Buy More it was decently funny.

[Dienekes]

Beckman's facial expressions during the ending scene were hilarious.

Good episode, overall.

[Fawkes]

Well Chuck and Sarah are adorable together, but why doesn't he call her by her real name?

Why change? She's always been Sarah to him, and that's the name she goes by.

[Mr._Blinky]

Loved the knew episode. :smallsmile:

Now, my thoughts in more detail:

1. I really liked how Morgan is actually turning out to be a somewhat competent spy. Well, maybe not spy per se, since he's obviously terrible at anything that involves subtlety, but he's at least an excellent analyst or something for the team. We got some foreshadowing for this in the last episode for the break, what with him being the one to spot Shaw's deception, but it's nice to see it wasn't a fluke.

2. Like a lot of other people have noted, the Chuck and Sarah interactions were vastly improved from the rest of the season. Now that they didn't have to follow the constraints of the horribly stupid reset button, they're pretty much back to the way they were starting to become at the end of season 2, and should have been at the start of this season. One of the reasons I've always liked the Chuck/Sarah romance more than relationships on most shows is that the two actually have a sense of chemistry onscreen. This was something that Sarah/Shaw totally lacked, which was my main complaint with that entire arc. Now that they're back to showing interactions between the characters that feel much closer to how they've always behaved towards each other, it feels much more natural.

3. Which brings me to my third point: fun. This episode actually had a lot of it, which is more than can be said for some episodes earlier in the season. Why? In my opinion, it's because Chuck and Sarah are finally together, meaning that the writers can finally ignore the contrived angst and get back to the core of what made season 2 so great: the great chemistry all the characters have with each other.

[Elfey]

I've been thinking about what was missing in Chuck's transition from Season 1 & 2's "I just want to go back to my normal life, I hate spy work." and Season 3's "I've always wanted to be a spy, what are you talking about?"

If Chuck had just reflected on the life he wanted and decided that he wanted a job utilizing his intelligence and techno-savvy while being well paid and traveling the world... and realized spy work was actually what he wanted on its own merits, it could've been character development. The reason he didn't run away with Sarah could've been lingering doubt that she really wanted him, the belief that they would grow apart over time, or even simple fear of living his life on the lam.

Instead, it just tried to make his reason for wanting to be a spy that he loved Sarah, but he'd loved Sarah back when he wanted a normal life, so that kind of breaks down.

I think the big thing was at Chuck really knew what the hell has been going on for the last few years. What his life was right before the first episode and what it really was are quite different. (And I'm betting will get stranger, more on that below).

Chuck, up to the first episode thought he got screwed by his best friend who got him kicked out of a top school and took his girl, who also treated him like crap at that point. He was betrayed in a fundamental way and really didn't deal with it beyond having a bit of a man boy life. He had dreams before this, he almost had his degree, and if Bryce didn't act would of been brought in to work on the intersect as an analyst (hell even drafted for his current role).

Bryce knew Chuck's life was a lie, we are not sure how much he knew at the time, but Bryce knew stanford was a spy recruiting ground because they got him. The otherside got his girlfriend. Bryce may have even knew about Orion at the time and believed Chuck was too good and decent to get into it. Bryce had the gall and luxury of making a choice for Chuck to keep him out. I both respect and hate Bryce a bit for that, because he clearly loved Chuck (like a brother you yaoi fans!) and wanted to keep him safe, but didn't respect Chuck enough to know resulting in Chuck's prolonged Man-boy state.

Chuck begins to learn the truth as time goes on, and that begins to heal him. He wasn't betrayed by Bryce, but he certainly was by Jill. He re-evaulates his time at stanford, knowing more of the truth and begins to have goals. The biggest bomb, of course, is Orion. That reshapes his entire life, his goals, his history and desires. I think the spy goals are a combination of Bryce's death impacting him hard and his father's work makes him realize he has the skills and can help, and thus must help.

Of course, now he likes it, the thrill and chase. I think

He's drawn blood even, and I think he'll be forced to kill, but he won't do it easy. (I imagine it being like the train yard scene but with Chuck taking the shot when it's down to the two of them).

There's still one more thing. Chuck's mom. I'm calling Soviet agent called home. The time line works and you know the show would go there.

[Mr._Blinky]

Of course, now he likes it, the thrill and chase. He's drawn blood even, and I think he'll be forced to kill, but he won't do it easy. (I imagine it being like the train yard scene but with Chuck taking the shot when it's down to the two of them).

Um, I know that we've got kind of a weird, on/off policy with spoilers on this thread, but, uh, have you not actually seen the episode previous to this one yet?

In other news, you know what makes me really happy? A lot of people related to the show and studio are saying that there's a good chance at this point of it getting renewed for a fourth season! That makes me all kinds of happy.:smallbiggrin:

[khoregate]

now all we need to know is when anna wu is coming back !!

[Fawkes]

now all we need to know is when anna wu is coming back !!

In two episodes.

[Tiger Duck]

I wonder if Hanna is coming back. Because if she doesn't then I don't get why she was included in the first place.

[Philistine]

Her character seems to have served two purposes in the show. From Chuck's (the character's) point of view she was an object lesson, a graphic demonstration that it's too late for him to ever have a "normal" life. And then from Chuck's (the show's) point of view, she gave the audience a break from watching Chuck pathetically mooning over Sarah for another full season. (A welcome distraction, I would say; I'd never seen Kreuk in anything prior to her stint on Chuck, but as Hannah I thought she came off as mostly believable, and entirely adorable. Plus, her chemistry with Zach Levi was almost as good as Strahotsky's.)

[khoregate]

new episode was coool



loved the scenes with awesome and ellie at least they just didnt wander offf stage to dissapear.

TIGER !!!!!!


and boy isnt Morgan lucky to wander into that in the middle of the night !!

[Tiger Duck]

loved the scenes with awesome and ellie at least they just didnt wander offf stage to dissapear.


True but the could have had them in Africa for at least a little while longer.

[Dienekes]

OH NO! What's going to happen to Dr. Super-Fantastic White Person?

Decent episode overall, will be interesting to see what they do with the ending

[Mr._Blinky]

True but the could have had them in Africa for at least a little while longer.


Yeah, that bothered me too. I could have seen them being there for only two or three episodes, but...seriously? One episode? After the amount their leaving was hyped up? That felt pretty off to me.

[Elfey]

I think it's because of the time line of the end of the season narrowing what has to happen. There's only 4 episodes left and I think Orion is back for at least 2 of them, and the season finale is called The Ring Part 2, indicating it's a heavy family plot.

Might even be a 4 episode arc with the whole Chuck overload from the ads.

[Tiger Duck]

Then they should have ended it at episode 13. It was a great end, and kept this stuff for season 4. Because rushing trough a whole seasons worth of plot in 6 episodes doesn't give it much help in getting renewed for a next season.

[Mr._Blinky]

Also, when considering it's called "The Ring Part 2" and the double meaning that had last time, it almost makes me suspect that Chuck is going to propose to Sarah in that episode or something. NOTE: I hope this does not happen.

[Lord Seth]

Then they should have ended it at episode 13. It was a great end, and kept this stuff for season 4. Because rushing trough a whole seasons worth of plot in 6 episodes doesn't give it much help in getting renewed for a next season.Episode 13 was the original season ender, but then they got renewed for more episodes this season.

[Tiger Duck]

Makes sense. Still, I do hope they don't rush these episodes and ensure that they don't get renewed for a next season.

[Mr._Blinky]

Given this most recent episode, and the fact that I'm fairly sure Scott Bakula is billed until the end of the season, at this point I'm predicting that the season finale is going to involve Chuck getting the Intersect removed once and for all. That way if the show doesn't get renewed, it'll give some closure to that arc, and if it does (which is apparently pretty likely at this point) it'll give them a way to switch up the dynamic for next season. I'd predict that they also use it to show how far Chuck has come in the past three years, in that he no longer needs the Intersect as a crutch to do his job; it's useful, but it's not the only thing he has going for him anymore.

Anyways, I liked this episode a lot, and I've been fairly pleased with this post-break run in general. This new development in the Intersect especially is a really nice twist.

My one complaint? Not enough Christopher Lloyd!:smallfrown: Seriously, I kept waiting for a Back to the Future shout-out that I either missed or that never came!

Also, c'mon Ellie, at least tell Chuck! Yes, I know the whole "he'll think you're crazy!" thing, but you'd think she'd at least warn him since they work together. Plus, it'd clear up the whole thing, since Chuck is a little more astute about these things than Awesome, but then again that wouldn't work for the plot so...

[Lord Seth]

Chuck officially renewed (http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/05/13/its-official-chuck-renewed-by-nbc/51367).

[kpenguin]

Awwwww hell yeah!:smallbiggrin:

[Mr._Blinky]

Chuck yeah!

[SinisterPenguin]

Chuck officially renewed (http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/05/13/its-official-chuck-renewed-by-nbc/51367).

Yeeeeeeeeees.

[Fawkes]

Yay!

<3 Chuck

[Archonic Energy]

Chuck yeah!

"Chuck me"...
oh wait, that joke's been used... :smallredface:

erm...
run along nothing to see here

[Mr._Blinky]

"Chuck me"...
oh wait, that joke's been used... :smallredface:

erm...
run along nothing to see here

And hence the reason I went with the heretofore unused "Chuck yeah".:smalltongue:

[Tiger Duck]

Seems my fear were unjust, Hozaaa:smallbiggrin:

[Dienekes]

Groovy, hope it maintains the same quality.

[kpenguin]

Today on "Chuck the Pathological Liar Show"...

Does anyone feel like hiding is Chuck's best skill? :smallwink:

[dehro]

yay:biggrin:

[Mr._Blinky]

In response to tonight's episode: Ho snap!

[Archonic Energy]

New Episode stuff:

no really, go watch it first
OMG! Shaw will be the interscet that Bryce was supposed to be, with none of the problems Chuck experiences as he is in control of his emotions. this is going to be a big showdown!
i think Orion should intergrate the governor into one of his cool Wrist PCs...

[Mr._Blinky]

Also, having just watched the trailer for the season finale:
Buy-More! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Also, what are everyone's opinions on Shaw not actually being dead? Personally, I'm not a big fan of it. It just takes a lot of the impact out of the climax of Chuck vs. The Other Guy; I thought it was an excellent character moment that Chuck had to kill once, and the impact that would have on his future. While I understand that the important thing is that he was willing to kill Shaw to protect Sarah, having Shaw survive somewhat...cheapens the act for me. Sure, it's likely Shaw's going to die in that Buy-More explosion or something, but I do think that Chuck having killed once was an important character element.

[dehro]

Also, what are everyone's opinions on Shaw not actually being dead?
there's one thing that does bug me there...
my opinion about the whole Shaw back from the dead aside...what bugs me is:
how can the intersect possibly know whether shaw is dead or not?
the whole Chuck killing Shaw scene happens way after chuck downloaded intersect 2.0...and as far as I understand the workings of the intersect, it is nothing but a glorified database that brings forward and puts together bits of information in ways the normal programmes and the analysts themselves are unable to do. it does the "matrix" thing of imbibing chuck with skills through having a full set of info about those skills and kinda imprinting them on his body..but as far as info go...if he doesn't upgrade regularily, the intersect can't develop new info on it's own..only new connections based on old info that nobody had thought to put together yet.
does chuck upload new info on a daily routine?..I don't think so!

so...how can the intersect possibly know that shaw ain't dead?

[Mr._Blinky]

there's one thing that does bug me there...
my opinion about the whole Shaw back from the dead aside...what bugs me is:
how can the intersect possibly know whether shaw is dead or not?
the whole Chuck killing Shaw scene happens way after chuck downloaded intersect 2.0...and as far as I understand the workings of the intersect, it is nothing but a glorified database that brings forward and puts together bits of information in ways the normal programmes and the analysts themselves are unable to do. it does the "matrix" thing of imbibing chuck with skills through having a full set of info about those skills and kinda imprinting them on his body..but as far as info go...if he doesn't upgrade regularily, the intersect can't develop new info on it's own..only new connections based on old info that nobody had thought to put together yet.
does chuck upload new info on a daily routine?..I don't think so!

so...how can the intersect possibly know that shaw ain't dead?


Well, my guess is that it's working with his subconscious. The Intersect doesn't so much know Shaw's alive through data, but perhaps it's instead allowing Chuck to put together a number of different factors to reach that conclusion. For instance, Chuck saw where he shot Shaw, and how Shaw fell into the river, as well as the fact that they never found a body, etc. The Intersect has done the math or something on this and come to the conclusion that Chuck wouldn't have actually killed Shaw, and therefore he must still be alive.

That's about the best I can come up with.

[dehro]

I agree..there's nothing more than that really... which is so shaky that I'm going with "plothole" on this one..

not that that will stop me from watching and appreciating chuck:smallbiggrin:

[Sneak]

Holy Bartowskis, Batman.

I just watched the first half of the two-part finale online (I missed them on TV) and am waiting for the second half to buffer right now.

It looks like it's going to be chucking awesome.

[BRC]

Remember how Fulcrum put Bryce back together after he got shot? I don't think it to be a big leap to think that the Ring would have similar capabilities.

[Sneak]

Okay, I just finished the second episode. Not quite as ridiculously, insanely awesome as I'd hoped after seeing the first half. Definitely not as ridiculously, insanely awesome as the original Chuck vs. the Ring.

Still pretty awesome, though.

[Lord Seth]

D'oh! I didn't know this was a two-parter, so I just recorded the first hour and then started recording CBS so I'd get The Big Bang Theory (I was watching the 24 finale at the time). Darn it, now I gotta wait for Hulu to put the second part up.

[Mr._Blinky]

Oh, this looks like it's gonna' be fun!:smallbiggrin:

[golentan]

I...

Okay, I'll be brutally honest. I loved. Loved. Seasons 1 and 2. Then, at the end of the season 2 finale, I felt like they reached a point of closure and then suddenly shoehorned in new villains unnecessarily and with little regard to the appropriateness of the event, then acted like they had always been there in season 3. Also, I know it's important to provide character growth, but Chuck was always the analyst. He did good things as the analyst, and came up with clever solutions to work around being the physical weak sister of the team. Giving him the upgrade and turning him into more muscle lost a fair amount of the charm for me. And Season 3 felt like it was a tug of war between those who wanted the geeky, lighthearted, tongue in cheek spy humor with a dash of drama that made the show great in the first place, and those who wanted to tone up the moral ambiguity and make it darker and edgier. The whole season felt like it was suffering a severe case of mood whiplash.

And the season 3 finale... Well, once again they reached a point of closure. Then they mood whiplashed with the last few scenes. Then they shoehorned in new badguys. And it looks like chuck will be picking up some new toys to play with.

I don't think I'll like season 4, though I hope to be pleasantly surprised. And if I don't, I doubt I'll stick around for season 5.

[thegurullamen]

Okay, I just finished the second episode. Not quite as ridiculously, insanely awesome as I'd hoped after seeing the first half. Definitely not as ridiculously, insanely awesome as the original Chuck vs. the Ring.

Still pretty awesome, though.

Yeah, but in all honesty, I don't think anything the second half did could top the last minute or so of the penultimate episode. Sure, technically nothing happened, but dammit, look at the development!

As for the finale as a whole, I loved it. Excellent closure (again!), for Chuck as both a series and as a single season. And every character gets a moment (again!) I'm also excited to see that, like Star Wars, this is has turned from a story about finding one's self and personal growth into an unexpected and epic saga. Truly, the Bartowskis are the Corleones of the spy craft.

The only sad part was Jeff and Lester's fate. Of all of the things they've done, I don't think they deserve the false-arson charge, nor the ensuing manhunt. Couldn't Chuck have pulled some sway with Beckman about that? I suppose maybe Mike talked to the police before they could squash it, but no one who saw the TV seemed all too worried about J&L. Here's hoping they don't piss off a bounty hunter and wind up in a pair of shallow graves outside of Reno.

[Mr._Blinky]

The only sad part was Jeff and Lester's fate. Of all of the things they've done, I don't think they deserve the false-arson charge, nor the ensuing manhunt. Couldn't Chuck have pulled some sway with Beckman about that? I suppose maybe Mike talked to the police before they could squash it, but no one who saw the TV seemed all too worried about J&L. Here's hoping they don't piss off a bounty hunter and wind up in a pair of shallow graves outside of Reno.

My hope? Next season will have a B-plot like the Buy-More, except this time it's going to be Jeff and Lester's adventures on the lamb. If so, I predict that hilarity will ensue.:smallbiggrin:

[Dienekes]

They blew up the freakin' Buy More.
They Blew it Up! Holy cows.
I rather enjoyed the season finale, myself. While golentan does have some points, the characters remain fun and entertaining, the story is suitable epic, and so I'm still interested. I suppose it's all about priorities, and mine is simply stuck on, that was a fun arc, now make it more awesome.

[Fawkes]

The blew up the freakin' Buy More.
The Blew it Up! Holy cows.
I rather enjoyed the season finale, myself. While golentan does have some points, the characters remain fun and entertaining, the story is suitable epic, and so I'm still interested. I suppose it's all about priorities, and mine is simply stuck on, that was a fun arc, now make it more awesome.


You damn dirty apes!

Yeah, I love the pattern they're forming with amping things up to 11 in the final moments of a season finale.

[dehro]

I just saw the series finale...and can only say:


giggity!

and I totally called the final revelation.

[BRC]

At this rate, the entire city of Burbank will be made up entierly of agents for shadowy cabals.


I mean really, first you have Fulcrum, a generic Shadowy criminal cabal. Then the Ring, which was pretty much exactly like Fulcrum in every way imaginable.
Now you have whatever shadowy cabal has ChuckMom.

Now, here's the thing. The old days of Chuck, where each episode was 40% buy More shenanigans/ 60% Chuck bumbling his way to victory are long gone, and they have been all season. Now it's just a spy show with Nerd jokes.


And here's the thing, it's a GOOD spy show with Nerd Jokes, but it's a very different show.
Chuck has accepted being a Spy, he's now capable and hypercompetant at almost everything, he's gotten Sarah, and everybody he cares about knows he's a spy, so he dosn't even have the whole "Secret Identity" thing to worry about anymore.

But, this last season, where it gradually went away from "Fish out of water" to "Hey watch this awesome stuff happen", proved that it CAN be good.

So yeah, I liked the finale, and am looking forward to seeing what happens next.

[Sneak]

A couple of issues I had with the finale (although it was very good) and some response to the previous post:

IMO, they set up whole "Morgan+Awesome+Ellie Rescue Op" to be really big and impressive, and then...it lasted about two minutes and was concluded completely accidentally. Kind of a let down. Personally, I was actually hoping that the majority of the episode would be them against the Ring, not our standard heroes. Then again, I can see why that might not work.

Also, the flashbacks were a bit...hammy. And kind of unnecessary. Plus, I don't like the way they're trying to make Chuck into a the "special" chosen one. Because the whole point of the first two seasons was that he was pretty much just a normal guy, and I think that that was one of the reasons it was so enjoyable.

I think the reason I didn't enjoy this season as much (in addition to the unnecessary wangst) was that Chuck is now a full-on spy. The BuyMore shenanigans and all "real life" aspects became more and more separate from and irrelevant to the rest of the show. And while this makes sense and follows a natural progression, it still leaves out one of the best elements of the show.

Oh, and personally, I was hoping that Chuck would get the Intersect removed sometime this season and then figure out that he was good enough from all his spy training to be a spy without it.

So, who do you guys think should play Mama Bartowski?

I've seen Lynda Carter and Mary McDonnell mentioned as fan choices in several places, and I have to say, I think Mary McDonnell on Chuck would be fantastic.

[BRC]

A couple of issues I had with the finale (although it was very good) and some response to the previous post:

IMO, they set up whole "Morgan+Awesome+Ellie Rescue Op" to be really big and impressive, and then...it lasted about two minutes and was concluded completely accidentally. Kind of a let down. Personally, I was actually hoping that the majority of the episode would be them against the Ring, not our standard heroes. Then again, I can see why that might not work.

Also, the flashbacks were a bit...hammy. And kind of unnecessary. Plus, I don't like the way they're trying to make Chuck into a the "special" chosen one. Because the whole point of the first two seasons was that he was pretty much just a normal guy, and I think that that was one of the reasons it was so enjoyable.

I think the reason I didn't enjoy this season as much (in addition to the unnecessary wangst) was that Chuck is now a full-on spy. The BuyMore shenanigans and all "real life" aspects became more and more separate from and irrelevant to the rest of the show. And while this makes sense and follows a natural progression, it still leaves out one of the best elements of the show.

Oh, and personally, I was hoping that Chuck would get the Intersect removed sometime this season and then figure out that he was good enough from all his spy training to be a spy without it.

So, who do you guys think should play Mama Bartowski?

I've seen Lynda Carter and Mary McDonnell mentioned as fan choices in several places, and I have to say, I think Mary McDonnell on Chuck would be fantastic.


As I said above. This entire season was getting away from Old Chuck into "Hey, look at this awesome stuff" Chuck. Which I think it's a good thing. The series is growing, maybe it's not as good as the old days.

Remember the second episode, where the highest point of tension was Chuck trying to land a helicopter? Well that era is VERY far gone, and while New Chuck may have lost the charm Old Chuck held, I don't think they could have kept the "Bumbling fish out of water" thing going for another season. So the show, and the characters, grew. Maybe it's not as good, but it's still good, and had they tried to cling to an old concept, I think it would have gotten bad fast.

[Sneak]

As I said above. This entire season was getting away from Old Chuck into "Hey, look at this awesome stuff" Chuck. Which I think it's a good thing. The series is growing, maybe it's not as good as the old days.

Remember the second episode, where the highest point of tension was Chuck trying to land a helicopter? Well that era is VERY far gone, and while New Chuck may have lost the charm Old Chuck held, I don't think they could have kept the "Bumbling fish out of water" thing going for another season. So the show, and the characters, grew. Maybe it's not as good, but it's still good, and had they tried to cling to an old concept, I think it would have gotten bad fast.

Yeah. My post was originally just the question about Mama Bartowski, and then I edited in all the rest, and then I saw that you had posted before I edited it in and said kind of similar stuff, so then I just decided to delete the original post and put it as a new one after yours. If that makes any sense. Which it probably doesn't.

But yeah, I agree that that sort of show probably couldn't have been sustained for very long, which is why I said that this was a sort of logical progression. But still, spies do some normal-ish stuff, right? Not that I'd know or anything, but I would assume so.

It just saddens me to think that the show may never again reach the glorious heights of Chuck season two.

[golentan]

As I said above. This entire season was getting away from Old Chuck into "Hey, look at this awesome stuff" Chuck. Which I think it's a good thing. The series is growing, maybe it's not as good as the old days.

Remember the second episode, where the highest point of tension was Chuck trying to land a helicopter? Well that era is VERY far gone, and while New Chuck may have lost the charm Old Chuck held, I don't think they could have kept the "Bumbling fish out of water" thing going for another season. So the show, and the characters, grew. Maybe it's not as good, but it's still good, and had they tried to cling to an old concept, I think it would have gotten bad fast.

But why is another season necessary, or even desirable narratively? Why do you have to beat that horse until you've extracted everything of potential value? I had hoped they would leave it as a fantastic 2 season show until the last moment of the season 2 finale. Then I had hoped last night that they'd leave it as a great 3 season show until that last 30 seconds. The way they keep glomping on additional cookie cutter villains and plot points, and moving the goalposts further and further from the original premise, the more I worry it will wind up a mediocre or poor 8 season show.

They didn't have to keep that "fish out of water" thing, but chuck was first and foremost an analyst. The intersect was an analytical tool. Why suddenly make it a combat training program? Is it necessary to give chuck magic combat powers offscreen rather than have him develop piecemeal onscreen? Why defeat fulcrum only to sell it back to us the next day with the serial numbers filed off and "The Ring" painted over it sloppily? If you want the show to be longer, there was no reason that the battle against fulcrum/the ring couldn't have taken several seasons.

I know, crazy fandom. They changed it now it sucks/It's the same now it sucks. But it feels like they're riding the worst possible line on status quo (Ooh, scary organization infiltrated the CIA at every level, fear their generic sameness with the previous villain organization) and change (Hey, we've got a story about a geek protagonist, what can we do to make it better? I know, let's make him tougher, and let him beat up on enemies. 'Cuz guys can't REALLY be heroes unless they're tougher than the women they date, and now we don't have to come up with as many complex intelligent plans to get him to fast talk or think his way out of trouble because he can kick the asses of the enemy of the episode when they jump him). Sorry, I'll stop ranting now.

[Lord Seth]

What I don't get is Shaw's transformation into a super-evil villain. I mean, I get his motivations, he joins up with the Ring to get revenge on the CIA for ordering the death of his wife, but he seems sorta too into it. I will say I liked the way Chuck tricked him into revealing his hand to everyone in attendance.

Sadly, with the ratings decline that's been going on this entire season, it's looking like the 13-episode renewal for next year is going to be all the show gets before it's over.

[kusje]

I will say I liked the way Chuck tricked him into revealing his hand to everyone in attendance.


Wasn't it the same trite method of getting half the criminal masterminds in any show to reveal their plot?

[Mr._Blinky]

Oh, and personally, I was hoping that Chuck would get the Intersect removed sometime this season and then figure out that he was good enough from all his spy training to be a spy without it.

Yeah, that was my big hope after they did the whole thing with the Intersect putting strain on him. I was really wished they'd gone that route, and to be honest I was kind of disappointed by the whole Governor thing, since I was kinda' hoping that Papa Bartowski would show up to remove it.

That would have allowed two things: a) Chuck could later realize he's grown competent without using the Intersect as a crutch, and b) it would allow them to effectively "depower" him, letting the show go back to some of its roots of letting him save the day by brains over brawn.

[BRC]

[spoiler]
Okay, point. Especially with Fulcrum/The Ring. They are essentially identical, shadowy evil spy organizations, there is absolutally nothing The Ring did that they couldn't have had Fulcrum do.
The worst thing is that these shadowy cabals never have any plans or motivation besides "Be Evil Spies". No world domination plot, not scheme to seize control of the UN, nothing. You get the impression that, in the absence of people hunting them, Fulcrum and the Ring would do nothing but sit around, move people between safehouses, and try to turn agents, then not have them do anything, because the organizations have no goals or character.

[Mr._Blinky]

What I don't get is Shaw's transformation into a super-evil villain. I mean, I get his motivations, he joins up with the Ring to get revenge on the CIA for ordering the death of his wife, but he seems sorta too into it.

Yeah, I had a problem with that too. Like you, I got his motivations for joining the Ring, but this didn't feel like him using the Ring to get revenge. This felt like Shaw going, "I am EVIL NOW, MUAHAHAHA!" And yeah, I know he did a little "muahahaha" ironically, but it still felt like he was entirely too into the idea of it.

Shaw being a double-agent worked when he did it as a tool for revenge, and was conflicted about the whole thing. But when he stopped being just angry at the protagonists and started being some gloating, diabolical mastermind, the character kind of lost any feeling of motivation for me.

[dehro]

A couple of issues I had with the finale (although it was very good) and some response to the previous post:

IMO, they set up whole "Morgan+Awesome+Ellie Rescue Op" to be really big and impressive, and then...it lasted about two minutes and was concluded completely accidentally. Kind of a let down. Personally, I was actually hoping that the majority of the episode would be them against the Ring, not our standard heroes. Then again, I can see why that might not work.
I think if they'd done that, they might as well have thrown away morgan as a character altogether...and awesome. they are both way to far removed from being spies (or being confortable about it in awesome's case) for it to "work" realistically without me feeling taken for a ride..had they done that

Also, the flashbacks were a bit...hammy. And kind of unnecessary. Plus, I don't like the way they're trying to make Chuck into a the "special" chosen one. Because the whole point of the first two seasons was that he was pretty much just a normal guy, and I think that that was one of the reasons it was so enjoyable.
not sure I agree... it make sense in a continuity kind of way, and to explain how chuck seems to be able to cope better than most on whom the intersect or variations thereof have been tried. also, it doesn't take away from him having been the normal average bumbling buffoon...but that was impossible to keep going.

I think the reason I didn't enjoy this season as much (in addition to the unnecessary wangst) was that Chuck is now a full-on spy. The BuyMore shenanigans and all "real life" aspects became more and more separate from and irrelevant to the rest of the show. And while this makes sense and follows a natural progression, it still leaves out one of the best elements of the show.
with this I do agree..but as you say, it's inevitable from the narrative progression pov..otherwise you just get a still frame and no growth or evolution in the characters at all..there are only so many ways chuck could have tripped into saving the day once again by pure happenstance.

Oh, and personally, I was hoping that Chuck would get the Intersect removed sometime this season and then figure out that he was good enough from all his spy training to be a spy without it.

wouldn't that change the show into yet another spy show as there are so many, without the whole raison d'etre of it being in place, i.e. the existence and relevance of the intersect causing the gravitational pull of the baddies towards chuck?


So, who do you guys think should play Mama Bartowski?

I've seen Lynda Carter and Mary McDonnell mentioned as fan choices in several places, and I have to say, I think Mary McDonnell on Chuck would be fantastic.
how about Cindy Morgan, from Tron?:smallamused::smalltongue:

[BRC]

I think that's a problem. They never really learned how to write villains, how to give them motives besides "Do evil things" or "Get Money". This worked back when the conflict was really more about Chuck vs himself, trying to cope with the dual identity, with spying while not being a spy, ect. But now that Chuck has gotten over that, they find themselves needing to write good villains. The problem with Shaw was that they took his initial character, the dedicated, capable CIA agent trying to hunt down the Ring. Then they shattered his world, made him switch sides, and didn't change his character at all, merely swapped "CIA" and "The Ring" (Well, Chuck and Sara specifically).

So, now that Chuck is a full on spy, has the girl, and everybody he would have ANY compunctions about lying to knows his secret (yes, Ellie made him promise to stop, but "awkwardly trying to convince Ellie that Chuck, Sara, and Casey are just going out to catch a movie...in full costume" is going to get old FAST. The writers are going to have to kick up their villain game, give this new organization some goal, some purpose besides "Be evil and shadowy"

[dehro]

I have the feeling Shaw was written in 2 phases..that they've decided to write him back in at a second stage..
I even have a wild guess reason for it...but since it's a pure guess (a.k.a "lookhowsmartIam") I'll spoilerize it
my guess/theory depends on who was going to be the final baddie in his stead, for this series.
someone else :smalltongue:
then however the new series was suggested as likely (I know it's only been confirmed recently, but they must have been talking about it for a while..and if my guess is right, they might have rearranged scripts to fit in a longer narrative plot once they got a hunch that the next series would have been commissioned)..
accordingly, they might have decided to move that particular villain to the end of the new series...therefore needing a "new" big villain for this series..and coming up with shaw
irrespective of my wild theory however, I'm not sure whether the lack of depth in Shaw comes entirely from bad script or maybe a bit of crappy acting too (he's one of the actors I least appreciate on the show, and that includes guest stars)

[BRC]

It didn't help that Shaw was just Bryce with a different backstory.

[Makensha]

Yeah, that was my big hope after they did the whole thing with the Intersect putting strain on him. I was really wished they'd gone that route, and to be honest I was kind of disappointed by the whole Governor thing, since I was kinda' hoping that Papa Bartowski would show up to remove it.

But now that a 4th season is almost inevitable Chuck is probably going to need a lot of information in the intersect to help him with whatever is going to happen, especially if he really has left the CIA. Even if he hasn't he still can't tell the government about his father's secrets.

[Mr._Blinky]

But now that a 4th season is almost inevitable Chuck is probably going to need a lot of information in the intersect to help him with whatever is going to happen, especially if he really has left the CIA. Even if he hasn't he still can't tell the government about his father's secrets.

Yeah, but they could have just had Chuck using the piles and piles of data in Papa Bartowski's underground lair. It would also have made for a nice twist, now that he's "left" the spy game; since he seemed pretty earnest when telling Sarah he was quitting, I'm actually guessing he won't be telling her and Casey about his own work, especially since they still work for the government. This might lead to an interesting set of twists in the plot, as Sarah and Casey while doing their spy thing start to get wind of a new player in the espionage game...who turns out to be Chuck working on his own.

Alternatively, if he had to have an Intersect they could have at least removed the 2.0. It would have worked well if after it was removed, it turns out Bartowski senior had created his own, but using his own data rather than the CIA's. This would mean that a) no one but Chuck would know he had an Intersect still, b) he has access to data the government doesn't, and c) they would have taken away his combat abilities, allowing him to be awesome without the crutch. The only flaw I see in this is that it they've already done the "remove one Intersect, download another" plot, so that could be kind of tired.

[thegurullamen]

What I don't get is Shaw's transformation into a super-evil villain. I mean, I get his motivations, he joins up with the Ring to get revenge on the CIA for ordering the death of his wife, but he seems sorta too into it. I will say I liked the way Chuck tricked him into revealing his hand to everyone in attendance.

Actually, I thought he made a great villain. He was never too far from the edge of his own slippery slope even before the reveal about his wife's death. He began as cold, haughty and manipulative, and after his defeat in Paris, he just became even more of a magnificent bastard in training.

Why? A gambit. With all of the above in mind, I think there's one logical conclusion you can draw: Shaw was infiltrating the Ring on his own terms, probably to become an elder (or even the elder, singular) after it assumed control of the US. He worked for the government for many years and for a lot of them, it was strongly implied that he was a good guy. Getting stabbed in the back by them might have soured the agency in his eyes, but the ideals it purported to serve were probably still a driving force for Shaw. So, when the Ring came knocking with an Intersect, he signed up with a plan to nullify the CIA and get revenge on his wife's murderer, his own murderer, and in doing so, pre-emptively stop the people who stood the best chance of stopping his rise to power.

Now, I know this is all just WMGing and I'm creating a lot out of whole cloth here, but the pieces fit. If they touch on Shaw in s4, I'm interested to see if they can bring any deeper motives to light.

[Lord Seth]

Wasn't it the same trite method of getting half the criminal masterminds in any show to reveal their plot?Yeah, pretty much, but it was more the way he made a reference to video conferencing in a call back to how he got Shaw to leave the place earlier. Jut seemed to set it apart from the usual "oh you just revealed this to everyone" thing.

EDIT: Plus everything else was so purposefully stereotypical (with the characters even noting it) that it felt like the right way for it to happen.

[BRC]

Personally, I'd like Chuck to take over as the new Orion. He gets off the frontlines and stays in a command center set up by Papa Bartowski, working his way through data, hacking security cams, and being an anonymous Voice with an Internet Connection for Sarah and Casey.

[dehro]

Personally, I'd like Chuck to take over as the new Orion. He gets off the frontlines and stays in a command center set up by Papa Bartowski, working his way through data, hacking security cams, and being an anonymous Voice with an Internet Connection for Sarah and Casey.

3 seasons of impulsively putting himself into harms way by jumping into action, and not staying in the car, when he sees something go wrong (or menace Sarah) tell me that that's not going to happen.

[Archonic Energy]

since we are WMGing....


Season 4 opens with Chuck in his dad's basement. an automated message from Orion instructs Chuck to Upload a new "Orion" intersect, which contains lots of new information that Orion discovered.
Chuck flashed on an old picture of his mother showing her as "missing".
Chuck recruits Sarah & Casey into HIS secret organisation, and goes looking for his mum.
Ellie gets pregnant.

now these are only guesses... only time will tell.

[Elfey]

So Chuck's mom, 1991, She's gotta be a former Soviet, right? Come on, I want a hot older woman with a Russian Accent, and 1991 is perfect.

They're at a point where many things may change. I think honestly the Buy More's purpose has been mostly served, but they will need a cover. Big Mike and Jeffster are the only characters that depend on keeping the BuyMore Status Quo. Awesome, Ellie and Morgan are no longer Muggles, able to exist without the BuyMore.

I hope for a big change, but one that goes with the core of the show, Chuck and his team being free agents working on his father's mission. Casey being a dad, Morgan being Chuck in season 2, but far more drive (See the Thumbs). A cover, perhaps a Subway Store, that they can use.

Of course that works for the overplot, but you still need individual plots, and honestly keeping Beckman on as chief. She's a bit too talent to lose. Perhaps they work A-Team like doing random missions including some for her, as part of her cover for FISA violations. (Casey and Sarah's activity in the US violates the act and should land Beckman in Prison).

[dehro]

the buymore, or at least the nerd herd, will come back in one or the other form.
otherwise they'd have to redo the opening credits, and I don't see that happen

[Mr._Blinky]

At this point I'm actually predicting that Chuck will at least initially not be telling Sarah and Casey about his dad's work. After all, they're still government agents while he's now technically a civilian, and he'll be working on things the government apparently finds rather sensitive.

[Archonic Energy]

oh and Chuck's mum has to be Kate Mulgrew

[Elfey]

Seconded. All parents are required to be starship captains.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Sarah's dad was Bill Lumbergh... Ummmm yeeeah. :smallbiggrin: