PDA

View Full Version : A Supposed Failure of Direction [3.5.1]



Doc Roc
2010-01-11, 07:13 PM
The Ban List (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7503784&postcount=2)

Well, it's come up that people think we could do a lot more with the Test of Spite, and with the 3.5.1 ban list. I'd like everyone who's suggested this to please articulate to me more directly your thoughts, because we're gearing up for a major push towards the launch of another patch layer, and if people feel like the ban-list doesn't do enough, well, that endangers what we've built on top of it.

So, to start it off:
Do we move too slowly?

Do you think there are specific things that should be banned?

9mm
2010-01-11, 07:16 PM
As I asked you a couple nights ago;

Persist, why does it still exist?

Doc Roc
2010-01-11, 07:17 PM
Well, it's got a home as a non-stupid mechanic, I think, even with just a little MM reduction.
Even if you're just running a -1 or -2 on it, it becomes really quite viable.

Tehnar
2010-01-11, 07:23 PM
Maybe the key to persist is to declare it does not stack (commutates) with extend?

Oslecamo
2010-01-11, 07:35 PM
I love how that list actually buffs clerics, by removing alignment restrictions and thus allowing them full acess to their spell list.

Doc Roc
2010-01-11, 07:39 PM
Oddly, Clerics still seem to be considerably weaker than wizards.

Fail
2010-01-11, 08:38 PM
As for the issues raised there (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7674205&postcount=126): in a real game, the war-marked and monk don't matter as much as guys able to cast major image, major creation, telekinesis and teleport a large number of times per day apiece. So there's still the problem in real play, and the ban list possibly already worked decently in PvP. So the issue's more like "What does that have to do with wizards as seen in real games?"

Doc Roc
2010-01-12, 11:15 AM
I don't think the gap is as wide as you suggest. We've done a lot of SGT testing, and war-marked holds solid parity for at least the first eight levels, and is pretty much even in combat for the next six. Unfortunately, the upper portion of war-marked isn't finished, so I can't speak as definitively about this as I'd like.

Fail
2010-01-12, 02:12 PM
As much as I value the SGT, it's not even intended to show what I'm talking about. The SGT only measures abilities at least related to survival in all-out existing conflict moments - pretty much everything I pointed was about how some characters can rewrite adventures/campaigns, and some can't.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-01-13, 06:11 AM
Too slowly? I never saw eye-to-eye with this supposed 'fixing' of 3.5. It seems arbitrary, taking away useful, fun but in no way broken things.

Doc you can pilfer my dirty handbook fixes if you wish. They are fixes though, not bans (so you can still play fun things).