Girard's Age?

[ThisIsNotDan]

I haven't seen this in any threads yet, but if it's already been discussed, someone please just link me to the discussion or at least tell me the conclusion that was reached.

My question is: How would Girard still be alive? We saw that Soon was an old man when Shojo was a kid, and Shojo has since grown to be an old man, as well, so a lot of time has passed since the OotScribble went on their quest. Isn't Girard just a regular human? Are there means at his disposal to greatly extend his lifespan? Everyone in the comic is assuming that Girard is still alive, but it seems to me like he should have died a long time ago.

Same question for Serini, although I think halflings generally have a slightly longer lifespan than humans.

[NerfTW]

Well, they were all younger than Soon. Girard was still alive as of a few months before the strip started, and he was pretty old. Girard is probably similarly old. Remember that this is a world with magic, and Girard has some skills, so people can live a bit longer by not worrying about disease, injuries, or not being able to take care of themselves.

[FujinAkari]

Girard was still alive as of a few months before the strip started, and he was pretty old. Girard is probably similarly old.

... huh? Girard is probably roughly as old as Girard?

[Zevox]

The Order of the Scribble's quest began 66 years ago according to Shojo's Crayons of Time exposition. This means that a human who was still fairly young - in his 20s or early 30s - at the time could easily still be alive now. Probably nearing the end of his natural lifespan (maximum human age is 110 by standard D&D rules, average death age would be in the low 90s), but still alive.

In addition, as an epic-level spellcaster, Girard could easily create his own life-extending magic spell or item, allowing him to outlive his normal maximum lifespan. There is also an epic feat called Extend Life Span, which can be used to extend one's life. I'm a bit unclear on how it works, but it would add at least 10 years to his life for each time he took it, possibly 30.

In addition, another human member of the Order of the Scribble, Dorukon, is known to have been alive a mere 6 months before the comic began. (See Start of Darkness.) Notably, he too was an epic-level spellcaster, and could have magically extended his life.

Serini is almost certainly still alive if she wasn't killed by a monster or villain at some point. The average death age of a Halfling is in the low 150s, so she'd have to have been into old age (age 75 for Halflings) or even pushing venerable (age 100) already at the time of their adventure to be in serious danger of dying after only 66 years, and it sure doesn't look like she was.

As for Soon, presumably he was already fairly old at the time of their adventure. The timeline Shojo gives - the Order of the Scribble's adventure taking place 66 years ago, Soon dying shortly after giving Shojo's father command of the Sapphire Guard while Shojo was just a child, and Shojo himself having ruled the Sapphire Guard for 47 years - require Soon to have died not too long after their adventure, probably less than a decade later.

Zevox

[Morquard]

I think NerfTW meant Durokan, who got killed by Xykon just month before the comic started.

Also yes, there are means for him to get really old, this epic feat for example:


Extended Life Span [Epic]
Benefit

Add one-half the maximum result of the character’s race’s maximum age modifier to the character’s normal middle age, old, and venerable age categories. Calculate the character’s maximum age using the new venerable number. This feat can’t lower the character’s current age category.
Special

A character can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.


Edit: Ninjad... :D

[NerfTW]

... huh? Girard is probably roughly as old as Girard?

Ha. Yeah, I meant Dorokan was alive a month before the strip.


Oh, and looking at the Azure City tour guide in War and XPs just now, we have an exact date for sealing the gate. Soon's gate was sealed 50 years ago according to the guide, because that's when they built the tower around it. (I would imagine it would have been quite difficult to seal the gate without a tower in place first.)

So even assuming Girard was in his thirties, he'd only be 90-100 now. Still possible to be alive with simple healing magics. People don't just die of old age, something has to go wrong first. In a world where magic can heal any disease, you cut out quite a bit of what can kill someone, and an adventurer is already going to be in good enough shape to prevent their body failing.

[Zevox]

People don't just die of old age, something has to go wrong first.
Actually, according to the D&D rules, that's exactly what happens.

When a character reaches venerable age, secretly roll his or her maximum age, which is the number from the Venerable column on Table: Aging Effects plus the result of the dice roll indicated on the Maximum Age column on that table, and records the result, which the player does not know. A character who reaches his or her maximum age dies of old age at some time during the following year.
Zevox

[hamishspence]

in the real world, maybe.

In D&D, once you reach the value listed for your maximum age (if you/the DM have rolled it up) you just die within the next year, and cannot be resurrected.

EDIT: ninjaed.

[Deliverance]

Yup, in D&D people come with expiration dates.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Nevertheless, 90-100 is still a perfectly reasonable (albeit venerable) age for a human. Especially if he picked up that feat posted earlier, which would make his maximum age only 90+2d20. So he's pretty old, but he's not necessarily dead yet.

[Forbiddenwar]

Oh, and looking at the Azure City tour guide in War and XPs just now, we have an exact date for sealing the gate. Soon's gate was sealed 50 years ago according to the guide, because that's when they built the tower around it. (I would imagine it would have been quite difficult to seal the gate without a tower in place first.)


It's called flying. Pretty easy to seal a rift with a gate the size of a small sapphire gemstone. I do imagine that the tower was constructed afterward, after the Scribble split up. It was part of the defense that Soon constructed on his own.

This whole conversation adds speculation to the idea that Soon's death may not have been natural. It may have been a prerequisite to become the positive energy spirit needed to protect the gate. Which, I imagine, was necessary for other paladins to be able to do the same. Not all paladins who die become powerful positive energy spirits, do they?

Also, just a side note, Dorukon's time of death is documented in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0071.html) as well as in SOD.

[factotum]

It's called flying. Pretty easy to seal a rift with a gate the size of a small sapphire gemstone.

That works for getting the gemstone up there in the first place. How was it supposed to STAY up there? Don't forget, Hinjo said that it couldn't be moved! (Which does raise an interesting question of what would happen if there was an earthquake or landslide that caused one of the gates to move naturally, but that's for another time :smallbiggrin:).

[Shale]

My bet would be that it literally couldn't be moved. If the whole tower was built "around" the gemstone, that would mean the stone was suspended in mid-air before construction started.

[Souhiro]

Immovable Rod, anyone?

The Gemstone is like a Immovable Rod, AKA: The ground moves, the castle move, Lien's bobbies moves, the gem stays.


Back to the main post, I think that Girard is a sorcerer (His clothes arent more like Elan's, not V's) and since most of sorcerers claim to be dragon descendants, That could arise his lifespan (a bit)


But I'm worried... The crayons of time show us a young Girard (Late twenties - very early thirties) and show us the young Girard at the time of the split of The Sacred Order of the Scribble, but the illusion show us an older Girard, maybe at his late fourties (Less hair, unkeeped beard, but not noticeable white hair) So... When did he crafted the illusion? That would be a nice question!

[salinan]

Immovable Rod, anyone?

The Gemstone is like a Immovable Rod, AKA: The ground moves, the castle move, Lien's bobbies moves, the gem stays.
When Roy suggested moving the gem/gate to Hinjo, Hinjo's response wasn't that the gem/gate was immovable, but that it might destroy the gate if it was moved. The language used suggests that the gem is perfectly free to be moved should someone so desire.

[Tass]

Yes Dorukan was still alive 6 months before the comic started, but just barely. Also remember that Serini describes him as "the new kid" in her diary. This implies that he is quite a bit younger than the rest. Dorukan could be early twenties of age in the picture from the diary, Girard looks more like he is in his thirties.

[TheBlackShadow]

I'm pretty sure that at some point in the Scribble comics we saw an old Soon carrying the Sapphire to present to Hinjo's father when he handed over control of the Paladins, so the jewel itself can be moved, at least.

[NerfTW]

I'm pretty sure that at some point in the Scribble comics we saw an old Soon carrying the Sapphire to present to Hinjo's father when he handed over control of the Paladins, so the jewel itself can be moved, at least.

That was discussed. It was probably just symbolism, not the actual gate.

[factotum]

I'm pretty sure that at some point in the Scribble comics we saw an old Soon carrying the Sapphire to present to Hinjo's father when he handed over control of the Paladins, so the jewel itself can be moved, at least.

And I'm equally certain that Hinjo says, in strip #411, that the gem can't be moved.

[Rotipher]

Are we even certain that Girard is human? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall having seen both his ears: he could be a half-elf, which would add a few decades to his lifespan.

[Optimystik]

My personal theory is that he has draconic ancestry. I don't have much to base it on; call it a hunch.

[Zevox]

Yes Dorukan was still alive 6 months before the comic started, but just barely.
And where do you get that idea? The images we see of him here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html) and in Start of Darkness don't seem to indicate any health issues. He doesn't even have wrinkles and spots on his face the way Shojo did, in spite of certainly being older than Shojo.


Also remember that Serini describes him as "the new kid" in her diary. This implies that he is quite a bit younger than the rest.
Actually, it only implies he joined the group last, and not too long before that diary entry.


Dorukan could be early twenties of age in the picture from the diary, Girard looks more like he is in his thirties.
And where do you get that judgment from? How does one determine the age of stick figures based on their appearance absent obvious giveaways like white hair for old people and short heights for children?


Are we even certain that Girard is human? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall having seen both his ears: he could be a half-elf, which would add a few decades to his lifespan.
Technically we do not have confirmation that he is human, but it seems the safe bet. He isn't a Half-Elf though - we did see both sides of his head here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), and neither has a pointed ear.

Zevox

[3Power]

As for Soon, presumably he was already fairly old at the time of their adventure. The timeline Shojo gives - the Order of the Scribble's adventure taking place 66 years ago, Soon dying shortly after giving Shojo's father command of the Sapphire Guard while Shojo was just a child, and Shojo himself having ruled the Sapphire Guard for 47 years - require Soon to have died not too long after their adventure, probably less than a decade later.

Shojo was described as in his 80s though. If he really was a child their adventures would have to take place a while before that. Where did you get 66 years from?

EDIT: nevermind, I found it. Wow this is a huge plot hole isn't it. How did Shojo become eighty while soon was going gray and he was a kid something like fifty years ago?

[Zevox]

Shojo was described as in his 80s though.
'Fraid you're wrong about that. The "Cast of Characters" section in War and XPs lists Shojo's age as 72. Which would put him at 6 when the Order of the Scribble's adventures occurred.

Zevox

[Nimrod's Son]

Shojo was described as in his 80s though.
Only by Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html), who most likely had no idea how old Shojo was. I think he basically wanted a fancy-sounding word for "old person", and wasn't trying to accurately describe his age.

[3Power]

'Fraid you're wrong about that.
Nope. All I said what that he was described as being 80,which he was. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html)

It's handwavable in that it's based on roy's perception, but it's stuff like this that fosters confusion.


I think he basically wanted a fancy-sounding word for "old person", and wasn't trying to accurately describe his age. I think Rich forgot how old shojo was supposed to be when he wrote the strip. septuagenarian would have the same comedic effect and would have been accurate.

[Mystic Muse]

Or maybe Roy just doesn't QUITE know how old Shojo is?

That seems to be the simplest explanation.

[3Power]

Or maybe Roy just doesn't QUITE know how old Shojo is?

That seems to be the simplest explanation.
You find the idea that Roy, who was present when Girard gave the timeline of Soon and company's adventures, including the second, offscreen time which occured directly before the event in question, and who possesses high enough ability scores to do the math, got his age wrong, to be a simpler explanation than the idea that the Giant made a mistake?

That's not the simplest explanation, it's the simplest explanation that doesn't cast doubt on the absolute perfection of your idol. 9,9

[Mystic Muse]

okay then, an even simpler explanation.

Roy doesn't CARE:smalltongue:

[Bogardan_Mage]

You find the idea that Roy, who was present when Girard gave the timeline of Soon and company's adventures, including the second, offscreen time which occured directly before the event in question, and who possesses high enough ability scores to do the math, got his age wrong, to be a simpler explanation than the idea that the Giant made a mistake?

That's not the simplest explanation, it's the simplest explanation that doesn't cast doubt on the absolute perfection of your idol. 9,9
So your alternate assumption is that Roy is exactly like the kinds of people who hang on in message boards and overanalyse every single piece of information they hear so as to extrapolate figures (like someone's age) that makes absolutely no difference to anything whatsoever?

Very simple explanation, sir.

[Nimrod's Son]

I've heard "octogenarian" used as a general term for OAP quite a few times, inaccurate as it may be (on one occasion the recipient was a guy I know in his mid-thirties, who looks much older than he really is - though I'm quite certain the person speaking didn't actually believe him to be in his eighties). I don't recall hearing "septuagenarian" used the same way, perhaps because it doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely. And "bisected any unarmed octogenarians" is a pleasing phrase, after all.

Rather than being a plot hole, it still strikes me as a case of choosing style over accuracy. Whether by Roy or the author, whatever.

[Souhiro]

Man... that's more simple:

Dorukan = Human Wizard, at his VENERABLE age (Seventies - Niteties)
Girard = Semi-Draconic Power Ranger/Sorcerer, at his OLD age (Eighties - One hundred)

The Oracle = Crap.

[werik]

It occurred to me that there was some proof that at least one of the two remaining Gate guardians is still alive from Start of Darkness.

When Lirian is reading the letter from Dorukan before Xykon bursts in, Dorukan asks when Lirian might be able to next come over "without arousing suspicion." Since it must have been known by that point that Soon was dead, it stands to reason that Lirian and Dorukan believed that either Sereni, Girard, or both were still alive. If they were dead there would be no concern about them visiting each other. Of course, this does not mean that Girard is necessarily still alive since only one of the two had to be. Furthermore, even if he was alive at that time, time has passed since then. It's possible that Girard and/or Serini may have died in the mean time.

[Rotipher]

Only by Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html), who most likely had no idea how old Shojo was. I think he basically wanted a fancy-sounding word for "old person", and wasn't trying to accurately describe his age.

Reviewing the scene, it looks like Roy was probably exaggerating, the better to rub Miko's offense in her face. Besides, the stress of ruling Azure City -- with all the deceptions and double-dealing that entails -- is bound to age a person pretty fast: Shojo probably looked a full decade older than he was.

[The Odor]

Reviewing the scene, it looks like Roy was probably exaggerating, the better to rub Miko's offense in her face. Besides, the stress of ruling Azure City -- with all the deceptions and double-dealing that entails -- is bound to age a person pretty fast: Shojo probably looked a full decade older than he was.

Sounds sain.

[Bogardan_Mage]

It occurred to me that there was some proof that at least one of the two remaining Gate guardians is still alive from Start of Darkness.

When Lirian is reading the letter from Dorukan before Xykon bursts in, Dorukan asks when Lirian might be able to next come over "without arousing suspicion." Since it must have been known by that point that Soon was dead, it stands to reason that Lirian and Dorukan believed that either Sereni, Girard, or both were still alive. If they were dead there would be no concern about them visiting each other. Of course, this does not mean that Girard is necessarily still alive since only one of the two had to be. Furthermore, even if he was alive at that time, time has passed since then. It's possible that Girard and/or Serini may have died in the mean time.
It's a given that Shojo believed Girard to still be alive, or the Order wouldn't have gone to his gate with the intention of speaking with him. And if the guardian of one gate believed Girard to be alive, what does it prove that the other guardians believed him to be alive?