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KitsuneKionchi
2010-01-11, 10:39 PM
I almost feel like the title of the thread itself is enough...

I recently designed an NPC who dubbed herself "the cantrip queen". She's exactly what she sounds like: a caster who specializes in cantrips (especially those modified with metamagic). I had a long list of some super cheesy stuff (usually involving making the spell damaging with Black Moil, then making the spell explosive, etc... and killing people with Messages and Arcane Marks), but it might be better just to post one at a time while I see other people discuss their favorite cantrips and/or use of cantrips.

---

Thus so far my favorite use of a 0 level slot has been using Mage Hand to ensure a thrown inhaled poison cloud never dissipates (err or dissipates slower). Unfortunately I just used it to bar off an entrance to help the PCs out when more wasps were gonna swarm in and attack...I say unfortunately because I'd rather use it as I walk through a dungeon...just have a cloud of poison lead the party...

Deth Muncher
2010-01-11, 10:42 PM
inb4 Prestidigitation.

EDIT: Anyway. Cure Minor Wounds is great, especially if you can get it in an unlimited charge item - free out of combat healing!

Sir Homeslice
2010-01-11, 10:44 PM
in during Prestidigitation

Prestidigitation.

Ashram
2010-01-11, 10:48 PM
Cure/Inflict Minor Wounds is why Paizo changed those to Stabilize/Bleed in Pathfinder. >.>

SurlySeraph
2010-01-11, 10:49 PM
Sonic Snap. Automatic 1 damage. Combine with the Fell Drain feat and metamagic reducers for awesomeness at 1st level; and if you've got metamagic reducers it's still a very nice use of 0th and 1st level slots later.

FishAreWet
2010-01-11, 10:56 PM
Silent Image on Illusionist Gnomes :smallamused:

Deth Muncher
2010-01-11, 10:58 PM
Silent Image on Illusionist Gnomes :smallamused:

A bad person are you.


Sonic Snap. Automatic 1 damage. Combine with the Fell Drain feat and metamagic reducers for awesomeness at 1st level; and if you've got metamagic reducers it's still a very nice use of 0th and 1st level slots later.

And a terrible person are you.

subject42
2010-01-11, 11:00 PM
I like the spell compendium's "Launch Bolt." It has 1001 uses.

Brendan
2010-01-11, 11:03 PM
I once convinced a Koa toan tribe leader that he was chosen by god with message. It was a nice bloodbath.

KitsuneKionchi
2010-01-11, 11:13 PM
Oh! There is a spell...I think its cloud zap or something similiar. It was from a Dragon Magazine article about Cantrips...it makes a cloud above the target's head that zaps them for one point of damage each round unless they make the save.

Use Extend and Persist and ask them "you think your sanity can survive being zapped by lightning every 6 seconds for 48 hours?!" Eventually they'd have to (try to) sleep, right? Exaustion modifies saving throws...

Zaq
2010-01-11, 11:15 PM
I find that few are quite as universally useful as Detect Magic. I mean, come on. It's friggin' Detect Magic.

That said, I too am a fan of metamagicizing Sonic Snap, though my preferred meta was Fell Frighten. No-save shaken for a 2nd level slot (that by all rights should have the potential to stack)? Yeah, I'll take it.

Caltrops with the Cloudy Conjuration feat is probably the most bang for your buck you can get out of an actual 0th level slot, unless there's some ScM shenanigans I don't know about that actually keep Silent Image at level 0.

Glimbur
2010-01-11, 11:21 PM
Summon Instrument. If there isn't enough lute in the dungeon, you can magic some up.

Fiery Diamond
2010-01-11, 11:28 PM
I once convinced a Koa toan tribe leader that he was chosen by god with message. It was a nice bloodbath.

That's why my favorite is message.

Signmaker
2010-01-11, 11:34 PM
Oh! There is a spell...I think its cloud zap or something similiar. It was from a Dragon Magazine article about Cantrips...it makes a cloud above the target's head that zaps them for one point of damage each round unless they make the save.

Thunderhead? SpC?

My favorites are Launch Bolt and Launch Item, personally. They're just too abusable.

Temotei
2010-01-11, 11:44 PM
Prestidigitation to impress the ladies. :smallwink:

Kallisti
2010-01-11, 11:48 PM
Prestidigitation for just about everything.

Also, Ray of Frost +Sneak Attack=hey, my sneak attack is a touch attack...screw you, crossbow...of course, if you have enough BaB to get iterative attacks it becomes a lot less useful.

Soranar
2010-01-11, 11:48 PM
a rogue sneak attacking with touch attack/ranged touch attack cantrips is just hilarious

deuxhero
2010-01-11, 11:49 PM
screw you, crossbow...of course

Why a crossbow? Doesn't Rogue give you shortbow?

Temotei
2010-01-11, 11:49 PM
Why a crossbow? Doesn't Rogue give you shortbow?

Indeed. Maybe he meant hand crossbow?

Optimystik
2010-01-12, 02:20 AM
Summon Holy Symbol (CC), the naked cleric's best friend.

Lycanthromancer
2010-01-12, 02:42 AM
Summon Holy Symbol (CC) Sex Partner (BoEF), the naked cleric's best friend.Fixed that for you.

What about preserve morning wood, from the BoEF? Should have a range of 'touch'.

Anyway, I like some of the psionic Talents. Aquis is a nice utility power (and can help you survive in Dark Sun campaigns). As is astral companion. Ectoplasmic adhesive is pretty awesome, too, as it's the only Ex glue I've seen yet. Power Extraction is great for extending one's adventuring day, while energy spark is good for CdG'ing trolls and other things with energy-bypassed regeneration.

As for official cantrips? Prestidigitation all the way, baby. Followed by summon instrument shenanigans (summon a singing bard or your spellbook if you've written hymns in the margins; if you have a big carrying capacity, summon a pianoforté to drop on people).

taltamir
2010-01-12, 02:47 AM
my favorite is prestidigitation, i typically use it for grooming and hygiene...
done with the sewer crawl? prestidigitation clean.
done murdering some folk and your clothes are soaked with blood? prestidigitation clean.
done trekking through the woods and you are filthy? prestidigitation clean...

Optimystik
2010-01-12, 02:57 AM
Fixed that for you.

I'd like to know what seminary you go to. :smallwink:


Ectoplasmic adhesive[/i] is pretty awesome, too, as it's the only Ex glue I've seen yet.

It may not be (Ex), but the Stick cantrip (SpC) conjures instantaneous glue, so it'll last forever and even in an AMF.

Lycanthromancer
2010-01-12, 02:59 AM
I'd like to know what seminary you go to. :smallwink:Not so much a seminary as a sem...err...nevermind.


It may not be (Ex), but the Stick cantrip (SpC) conjures instantaneous glue, so it'll last forever and even in an AMF.Hadn't seen that one. Very nice.

Optimystik
2010-01-12, 03:02 AM
Not so much a seminary as a sem...err...nevermind.

*gestures toward the alleyway*

...What were we talking about again?

Tyndmyr
2010-01-12, 03:28 AM
Sonic Snap. Automatic 1 damage. Combine with the Fell Drain feat and metamagic reducers for awesomeness at 1st level; and if you've got metamagic reducers it's still a very nice use of 0th and 1st level slots later.

I agree with this entirely. Plus, the image of snapping your fingers, and that commoner keeling over dead is purely awesome.

I probably use Detect Magic more than any other cantrip. Once I get it permanencied, though, prestidigitation tends to fill up the slots next.

Temotei
2010-01-12, 03:30 AM
Oh, and ghost sound.


Cure/Inflict Minor Wounds is why Paizo changed those to Stabilize/Bleed in Pathfinder. >.>

Too many people are looking only at cantrips. You got the orisons. :smallcool: Yeah. :smalltongue:

Roam7
2010-01-12, 07:43 AM
Prestidigitation, all the way.
It's like diet wish.

Longcat
2010-01-12, 08:39 AM
Mage Hand aka The Stranger...

Lycanthromancer
2010-01-12, 09:30 AM
Mage Hand aka The Stranger......passing in the night?

Shademan
2010-01-12, 09:42 AM
isn't the morningwood spell from nymphology? or was it reprinted for 3.5?

subject42
2010-01-12, 09:44 AM
No other love for launch bolt? My players are still scared of a crazed goblin spell caster that launched crossbow bolts the size of table legs at them.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-12, 11:18 AM
Thunderhead? SpC?


Sounds like Thunderhead. That said, Thunderhead is a first level spell, and it allows a reflex save...so unless you are using it for FD shenanigans, it's generally useless. PW:Pain is usually superior for FD fun too. It stacks with itself, deals untyped damage, does more damage, lasts longer at low levels, and most importantly, has no save.

Now, if they made a cantrip version of Thunderhead, Id be interested.

subject42
2010-01-12, 11:26 AM
so unless you are using it for FD shenanigans, it's generally useless. PW:Pain is usually superior for FD fun too.

What is FD?

Zom B
2010-01-12, 11:37 AM
Sounds like Thunderhead. That said, Thunderhead is a first level spell, and it allows a reflex save...so unless you are using it for FD shenanigans, it's generally useless. PW:Pain is usually superior for FD fun too. It stacks with itself, deals untyped damage, does more damage, lasts longer at low levels, and most importantly, has no save.

Now, if they made a cantrip version of Thunderhead, Id be interested.

Actually, if you look, Thunderhead as a spell description is a 1st-level spell dealing 1d6 damage per round. However, Thunderhead is listed in the spell listing as a 0-level spell dealing 1 damage per round. Most people I know agree that while the spell itself is accurate, that the cantrip version is not too overpowered, either, and allow either.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-12, 11:38 AM
Wait...Launch Bolt has no size limitations, does it...*Uses Colossal Crossbow Bolt*

That *is* cheese. Tasty tasty cheese. A L1 Wizard is an at-will siege engine. And does 6d6 damage with his massive crossbow bolt. Which is *technically* a spell component so can be ignored with Eschew Materials. I think this is a problem.

deuxhero
2010-01-12, 11:39 AM
Yeah more consitant/takes longer is a fair trade off from acid splash, so level 0 thunderhead seems fine.

nekomata2
2010-01-12, 11:41 AM
Wait...Launch Bolt has no size limitations, does it...*Uses Colossal Crossbow Bolt*

That *is* cheese. Tasty tasty cheese. A L1 Wizard is an at-will siege engine. And does 6d6 damage with his massive crossbow bolt. Which is *technically* a spell component so can be ignored with Eschew Materials. I think this is a problem.

The limitation when using Eschew Materials is that the material can't cost more than 1 GP, so you can increase the size until a single bolt costs more than that.

Teddy
2010-01-12, 11:59 AM
The limitation when using Eschew Materials is that the material can't cost more than 1 GP, so you can increase the size until a single bolt costs more than that.

If the cost doubles for each increase, that would "only" allow for gargantuan bolts at 8sp each.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-12, 12:09 PM
How do you change the cost of ammo, though? I've not seen rules for pricing outside of small/med/large, and they're the same price iirc...

If you use double per size category, I'm firing roughly human-sized pointly logs at people, for 4d6, at will. (Although you could argue the size diff applies.)

My question now is...what on EARTH are you firing at your opponent??? It's a ranged attack, dealing 1d8 without using any cheese, and it's not firing ANYTHING????

ericgrau
2010-01-12, 12:10 PM
Flare aka the Drow jammer.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-12, 01:21 PM
What is FD?

Fell Drain. A +2 metamagic from BoVD that level drains a person if they take damage from your spell. The wording of it is such that you would only lose one level from multiple simultanious events, like magic missile, but on things that tick for damage every turn, works every turn.

It's pretty nice because it doesn't have any save...if you take the damage, you take it. Ideally, you combine it with no-save damage.

Thus, PW: Pain is ideal.

I think I actually wrote something about this combo recently on travislerol.com/wordpress/

2xMachina
2010-01-12, 01:23 PM
How do you change the cost of ammo, though? I've not seen rules for pricing outside of small/med/large, and they're the same price iirc...

If you use double per size category, I'm firing roughly human-sized pointly logs at people, for 4d6, at will. (Although you could argue the size diff applies.)

My question now is...what on EARTH are you firing at your opponent??? It's a ranged attack, dealing 1d8 without using any cheese, and it's not firing ANYTHING????

I think you just made a cantrip create gargantuan bolts.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-12, 02:04 PM
Tyndi: Fell Drain is the good cheese for the Locate City Bomb...

As I was pointed out, the spell does specify a 1sp bolt...so it's only an at-will ranged attack for 1d8 at L1. Oh well. :smallbiggrin: *re-fluffs as a finger gun that works, grabs as many range boosters as possible, and snipes people with his finger from miles+ away*

deuxhero
2010-01-12, 02:21 PM
It may not be (Ex), but the Stick cantrip (SpC) conjures instantaneous glue, so it'll last forever and even in an AMF.

Oh! combine that with a perm Prestidigitation like a ring, and you can make scuptures out of the small brittle objects!

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 02:22 PM
In for Prestidigitation.

@OP: you may want to check on this: Isn't there a thread over in homebrew for The Cantrip Caster PrC?

arguskos
2010-01-12, 02:29 PM
In for Prestidigitation.

@OP: you may want to check on this: Isn't there a thread over in homebrew for The Cantrip Caster PrC?
Ask and ye shall receive! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134101&highlight=Cantrip)

The Glyphstone
2010-01-12, 02:30 PM
Thunderhead's only good when Ocular Spell and Persistent Spell are applied. 1 damage/round is a lot more impressive when it lasts for 24 hours.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-12, 02:39 PM
Ocular spell?

Technically, it's a reflex save for all of it. As a level 1 spell, this should not be hard to pass. Thus, it's a pretty slow, suboptimal way to kill someone without the crippling aspect of fell drain.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-12, 02:41 PM
Funny, though. And leads to bad 'Under the Weather' Puns.

Noble Savant
2010-01-12, 03:06 PM
Wait...Launch Bolt has no size limitations, does it...*Uses Colossal Crossbow Bolt*

That *is* cheese. Tasty tasty cheese. A L1 Wizard is an at-will siege engine. And does 6d6 damage with his massive crossbow bolt. Which is *technically* a spell component so can be ignored with Eschew Materials. I think this is a problem.

Yeah... that doesn't work. The bolt is the target of the spell, even if it is listed as a material component, you won't have a legal target to cast the spell *on* if you use eschew materials. You have to lug around the crossbow bolts.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-12, 03:24 PM
:smallfrown:

Stompy
2010-01-12, 04:07 PM
Prestidigitation, all the way.
It's like diet wish.

Prestidigitation is a dieter's dream! The lettuce tastes like pepperoni pizza! These carrots taste like overloaded cheesy nachos!

ALSO: conjuration cantrips are awesome because of cloudy conjuration :)

Vortling
2010-01-12, 04:36 PM
One more for Prestidigitation. Also Create Water. Nothing takes the wind out of a monologue or rant like being doused in several gallons of water.

Lycanthromancer
2010-01-12, 04:51 PM
Prestidigitation is a dieter's dream! The lettuce tastes like pepperoni pizza! These carrots taste like overloaded cheesy nachos!Aaaaand...you die from malnutrition.

Go directly to Acheron, did not pass your 'throw, do not collect 200 gp.

Riffington
2010-01-12, 05:04 PM
Question re Launch Bolt:

Are you allowed to launch a bolt that costs a different amount than 1sp?
If you are too small to launch the bolt in question, don't you take a -4 to hit for each size difference?

Tanaric
2010-01-12, 06:07 PM
Question re Launch Bolt:

Are you allowed to launch a bolt that costs a different amount than 1sp?

The listed material is a crossbow bolt (1sp). Thus, there's a strong argument for it being a medium sized crossbow bolt only.


If you are too small to launch the bolt in question, don't you take a -4 to hit for each size difference?

Yes, as the spell functions as if you had fired the bolt from a crossbow yourself.

waterpenguin43
2010-01-12, 07:26 PM
Mage Hand or Prestidigitation.

d13
2010-01-12, 07:43 PM
Any cantrip + Heighten Spell + Improved Counterspell + A high enough Spellcraft Check = Watch the enemy wizard cry as she can't cast a thing. :smalltongue:

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-12, 07:50 PM
I LOVE 0th level spells. I get more use out of them than anything 4th and above.

Summon Nature's minor ally-3rd party. summon an animal of up to 1/4th HD to do your bidding.

Minor Animation- 3rd party-Animate something with no more than 1/4th HD as a skeleton or Zombie. Lasts forever but can only have one going at a time. Keeping a rat skeleton on your pocket to gnaw through ropes is handy :smile:

I've also managed to find enough 0th level spells of the Conjuration school that a focused specialist can have options.

Rainbownaga
2010-01-12, 08:00 PM
Thunderhead's only good when Ocular Spell and Persistent Spell are applied. 1 damage/round is a lot more impressive when it lasts for 24 hours.

Is it evocation? I imagine it would be handy for low level warmages.

Dragero
2010-01-12, 08:19 PM
Predignation for sure :D

"OMG that rock just moved! Lets go look!"

::Barbarian club to head::

Otodetu
2010-01-12, 08:52 PM
I love the fell animate abuse.
Candy for my mind.

2xMachina
2010-01-13, 12:47 AM
The listed material is a crossbow bolt (1sp). Thus, there's a strong argument for it being a medium sized crossbow bolt only.



Yes, as the spell functions as if you had fired the bolt from a crossbow yourself.

I sell this gargantuan bolt to myself for 1sp!

ShippoWildheart
2010-01-13, 01:06 AM
Light and Create Water for me. Nothing like lighting up objects to toss into the scary darkness, and Create Water could technically kill a vampire if I'm looking at it correctly, and if we have at least 3-4 other divine casters going round robin with the spell spamming it too. :elan: Also works great to put out immolations.