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HMS Invincible
2010-01-12, 01:54 AM
How should I respond to someone roleplaying an assasinny rogue thats kinda sadistic, and mildly cruel? He's been disrespecting me lately and I want him to know who's on top here. And no, casting sleep and cutting his throat is not an acceptable solution. I want this to end with him either him fearing or loving me, it does not matter which.

He seems to have this idea that wizards are weak (in 4e) and he's all badass. I'm lvl 12 and hes lvl 10 only after he begged the DM for more xp to catch up. Which exasperates my disbelief at his disrespect for someone I could squash like a bug.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-12, 01:59 AM
Next time he insults you right before combat, sit the combat out. Burn your at-will and encounter abilities summoning tea, warming tea, and making a puddle of tea in front of you so enemies can't reach you to attack. See how well he does without your powers to grant CA.

Mystic Muse
2010-01-12, 02:02 AM
Use fire. Fire solves everything.

yes. even that.

Mastikator
2010-01-12, 02:02 AM
Squash him like a bug.

Really, do it. Best case scenario (unlikely) is that he admits he was wrong and changes his way. Worst case is he becomes very angry and leaves the game. Which isn't that bad either since he's a jerk. Screw him.

Sir Homeslice
2010-01-12, 02:10 AM
Talk to him like a reasonable person.

And then if he doesn't let up, conveniently keep dropping him into the AoE of your controllery powers that never seem to target his strong defenses. He'll eventually get the hint.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-01-12, 02:11 AM
Next time he insults you right before combat, sit the combat out. Burn your at-will and encounter abilities summoning tea, warming tea, and making a puddle of tea in front of you so enemies can't reach you to attack. See how well he does without your powers to grant CA.That works if they're the only two party members. And by "work" I mean "kill the other party member indirectly."

Actually, did the assassin say this, or did the assassin's player say this? If the latter, are you planning on sabotaging the IC party dynamic for the sake of proving a point? A point that might even be wrong, considering the fact that wizards need save-reducing cheese to be any good, anyway?

Speaking of which, if I'm wrong here and it's a good idea to go through with this, you could just go with Sir Homeslice's idea and "accidentally" stick him in the radius of a Sleep or a Face of Death and make sure your buddies don't snap him out of it.

KillianHawkeye
2010-01-12, 02:16 AM
Next time he insults you right before combat, sit the combat out. Burn your at-will and encounter abilities summoning tea, warming tea, and making a puddle of tea in front of you so enemies can't reach you to attack. See how well he does without your powers to grant CA.

Do something along these lines. Basically, you are witholding your aid from this guy because he's acting like an ass. Then, when he gets mad at you for not helping him, say that if he's so much better than you like he claims he wouldn't have needed your help. This will work better if you can exclude just the jerk player and not your whole party from benefitting from your presence.

I've used a similar strategy to deal with people in real life. When people are total jerks and make it clear that they don't respect me, I stop doing favors for them. (Usually, I'm too nice for my own good, so this was hard for me to do at first.) From my experiences, it doesn't really change the other person's ways, but at least I'm not taken advantage of anymore.

Kurald Galain
2010-01-12, 02:53 AM
He seems to have this idea that wizards are weak (in 4e) and he's all badass.
So? It's quite common for players to think that class A is uber and/or class B is pitiful; you shouldn't let that bother you. It seems such players are not generally going to change their opinion anyway.


I'm lvl 12 and hes lvl 10 only after he begged the DM for more xp to catch up. Which exasperates my disbelief at his disrespect for someone I could squash like a bug.
Squash him like a bug, just because he's two levels lower? I'm quite sure that 4E doesn't work that way.

Anyway, don't go all passive-aggressive on him because that doesn't help. Just try and talk it out.

dsmiles
2010-01-12, 05:32 AM
How should I respond to someone roleplaying an assasinny rogue thats kinda sadistic, and mildly cruel? He's been disrespecting me lately and I want him to know who's on top here. And no, casting sleep and cutting his throat is not an acceptable solution. I want this to end with him either him fearing or loving me, it does not matter which.

He seems to have this idea that wizards are weak (in 4e) and he's all badass. I'm lvl 12 and hes lvl 10 only after he begged the DM for more xp to catch up. Which exasperates my disbelief at his disrespect for someone I could squash like a bug.

Do nothing, he's roleplaying.

Unless the player, outside of gaming, is also a jerk. Then bring it up OoC.

vegetalss4
2010-01-12, 05:37 AM
i think the fact that the OP wanted him to fear/love him indicate that he means that his in game charecter is annoyed and he wants advise on how he can show the assain whos who.

kamikasei
2010-01-12, 05:51 AM
How should I respond to someone roleplaying an assasinny rogue thats kinda sadistic, and mildly cruel? He's been disrespecting me lately and I want him to know who's on top here. And no, casting sleep and cutting his throat is not an acceptable solution. I want this to end with him either him fearing or loving me, it does not matter which.

Which is "he": the character, or the player?

Shademan
2010-01-12, 05:52 AM
i think the fact that the OP wanted him to fear/love him indicate that he means that his in game charecter is annoyed and he wants advise on how he can show the assain whos who.

was just about to say the same. so yeah, seconded.

Withold your help for a encounter, being him into negatives if he anger your wizard to much. or not, he might decide to kill you for it. incinerating a human standing just behind the assassin to a small crisp of dust is also fine.


(spørs kor bra menneska e med ketchup. trur man heller ville salte dem. men viss vi smake som kylling e vel grillkrydder mer passaness)

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-01-12, 07:45 AM
If you want to humiliate him without just plain killing him, then try to do better than him in some way:

Using invisibility and silence spells to sneak better than he does.
Kill foes instantly from stealth with touch attacks.
Charm captives into cooperation instead of torturing them.

If you can manage it, tip off the local guard to his activity - making sure they know he's a dangerous and deadly assassin, so they come equiped - let him get good and worried that he's going to be killed, and then save his worthless ass.

Optimystik
2010-01-12, 07:51 AM
Imply, strongly and at every opportunity, that he (the rogue, not his player) is mentally deficient in some way. If he ever asks you what you plan to do in a given situation, insinuate that his feeble mind cannot possibly grasp your strategy. Lament the brain cells that routinely die for every moment you spend in his company. When he addresses you, respond as though a snail has suddenly developed the temerity to try and converse with you. And when he insults you, simply ignore him. Even in 4e, you are still god.

2xMachina
2010-01-12, 08:30 AM
^ Hah, sounds like a typical narcissist jerk wizard. Very good.

Shademan
2010-01-12, 08:32 AM
oh, and when you do it, talk really clear and rrreeaallly slowly.
"Dooo yooouuu underr-staaaand meeee?"

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-12, 09:25 AM
1) Make sure to keep this purely in-character. If it's OOC, confront the player about his irritating behavior. But if it's IC, enjoy watching the antics and counter-douchebaggery.
2) Make sure you don't push the assassin too far. You have to push him hard, obviously, but too hard and he'll hold a potentially lethal grudge. Of course, the IC answer to that would be murdering him, but that's liable to cause OOC tension.

The J Pizzel
2010-01-12, 09:51 AM
I might be in the minority here, but when someone thinks I'm crappy, I just do something nice to remind him how un-crappy I am. This might include buffing the **** ouf him so he can better kick arse. This might mean sleeping an entire room so he can coup everyone in there, etc. Then I politely remind him that I'm the one who made it all possible. That has actually worked on two fellow players.

Adversly, you could do what two players in my old 3.5 game did and buy the other character a cursed broom. It's not very vindictive, but man it's funny as hell to watch.

ashmanonar
2010-01-12, 10:50 AM
Use fire. Fire solves everything.

yes. even that.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

And that would be wrong.

Samb
2010-01-12, 10:57 AM
This is not an issue limited to 4th edition. Even if wizards are gimp and rogue are awesome, it doesn't give him the right to treat you poorly.

First you should talk to him and set clear boundaries both IC and OCC. Something to the effect of: "pull that $hit again and I'll show you just how 'gimp' wizards are" with varying degrees of forcefulness.

Now that he has fair warning you can do any of the things that everyone has posted. If you act out without fair warning you are just being passive-aggressive and just as bad as he is. Get the rest of party on your side too.

Another_Poet
2010-01-12, 10:59 AM
when someone thinks I'm crappy, I just do something nice to remind him how un-crappy I am. This might include buffing the **** ouf him so he can better kick arse. This might mean sleeping an entire room so he can coup everyone in there, etc. Then I politely remind him that I'm the one who made it all possible. That has actually worked on two fellow players.


Agreement.

Sipex
2010-01-12, 11:09 AM
It sounds purely IC to me but clear any OOC issues up first if it involves those too.

Then arrange with your DM the following plan:
1) Buy some Ground Thassil Root
2) Put Root in booze.
3) Challenge him to a drinking contest.
4) Hope he gets an 11 or less on the saving throw.
5) He passes out, DM withholds information since his character is knocked out.
6) Character wakes up in bed with a naked male dwarf you hired for just such an occasion.

Anonymouswizard
2010-01-12, 11:59 AM
It sounds purely IC to me but clear any OOC issues up first if it involves those too.

Then arrange with your DM the following plan:
1) Buy some Ground Thassil Root
2) Put Root in booze.
3) Challenge him to a drinking contest.
4) Hope he gets an 11 or less on the saving throw.
5) He passes out, DM withholds information since his character is knocked out.
6) Character wakes up in bed with a naked male dwarf you hired for just such an occasion.

Unless he is a dwarf, in which case make it a different race.

Or a male elf. It might be a few minutes before he notices the handout is not a hot elf chick :smallbiggrin:

Sipex
2010-01-12, 12:02 PM
Very true.

Really though just choose a race/gender combination you know he won't like.

BRC
2010-01-12, 12:05 PM
Some people think that "Roleplaying is good, therefore as long as I'm roleplaying, they must reward me". If you confront them, they will respond "Hey, I'm just roleplaying".

First,figure out if the Player is a jerk, or if they are just roleplaying a jerk and don't realize it's really really bugging you. If the former, it's time for the 'ol OOC discussion. If the latter, work somthing amusing out. Ask him "What would my character have to do to earn your character's respect", then do a more amusing and/or Badass version of that.

AtwasAwamps
2010-01-12, 12:07 PM
Very true.

Really though just choose a race/gender combination you know he won't like.

Warforged. Anything.

Or kobolds.

BRC
2010-01-12, 12:09 PM
Unless he is a dwarf, in which case make it a different race.

Or a male elf. It might be a few minutes before he notices the handout is not a hot elf chick :smallbiggrin:
You're doing it wrong.

He wakes up between a goblin and an Orc.

Optimystik
2010-01-12, 12:14 PM
He wakes up between two gnomes with the town guard kicking the door in

Fixed for hilarity

BRC
2010-01-12, 12:16 PM
You're doing it wrong.

He wakes up between Two Gnomes, a town guard kicking the door in, and the guard captain's wife.

Improved upon even further.

valadil
2010-01-12, 12:26 PM
I vote for talking to him out of game about it. Just be like "I know you're just roleplaying your character, but it's getting to me outside of game. Could you please tone it down?" Or something. I've certainly been the recipient of that type of conversation. Some people are better equiped to distance themselves from their characters, so they don't always realize when in game insults hurt out of game feelings.

Sliver
2010-01-12, 12:33 PM
And I was just thinking of him waking up with a male centaur..

incubus5075
2010-01-12, 12:37 PM
He wakes up between Two Gnomes, a town guard kicking the door in, and the guard captain's wife (who is 6 months pregnant and calling you, "my baby's daddy") edited for lasting consequences.

FoE
2010-01-12, 12:45 PM
If it really, really bothers you, talk to him about it. But if it's merely annoying, then you need to show him up.

Use your abilities in some other way that shows how he's lacking. For example, if you have to dig through a pile of trash, cast the Ritual that lets you touch anything without getting filthy. When he's up to his arms in oytugh dung, note how fresh and clean your clothing remains.

If his life is in danger and he needs your help, mock him with something along the effects of "What's the matter, need help from the weakling wizard?" Then be the bigger man and save him anyway.

Your DM might help you with this.

Thrawn4
2010-01-12, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by Kyuubi
Use fire. Fire solves everything.

yes. even that.


As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

And that would be wrong.

These. These phrases, they sound so familiar (and great, btw). Where have I heard them before, what do they refer to?

DragoonWraith
2010-01-12, 07:27 PM
The latter was in a recent episode of OotS.

Thrawn4
2010-01-12, 07:32 PM
The latter was in a recent episode of OotS.

Your information fills me with shame. ^^

Mystic Muse
2010-01-12, 08:07 PM
the former is a variation of an internet meme

CrimsonAngel
2010-01-12, 08:09 PM
Challenge him *looks at screan* TO A DU-EL! (doo-ehl)

taltamir
2010-01-12, 08:14 PM
OP, challenge him to a duel out of character... that is, either you vs him 1 on 1, or you and him taking turns against the same NPC monster.
Make it clear that this is not in game, that if either if you "die" you are not really dead, that you don't gain XP, and that it doesn't actually happen in game, it is simply a little out of character contest.

Acero
2010-01-12, 08:19 PM
Fireball can be a little all over the place

Bogardan_Mage
2010-01-12, 09:59 PM
Do nothing, he's roleplaying.
How does that make sense? If he's roleplaying a jerk, then roleplay a response to someone being a jerk. Whether he's genuinely roleplaying a character that is an insufferable jerk or he's just generally being a jerk and blaming it on his character doesn't really matter provided you deal with it in character. Doing nothing isn't roleplaying, it's ignoring it.

Rasman
2010-01-12, 10:14 PM
I don't know much about 4e, but spells like fireball and lightning bolt can "accidently" hit or affect your friendlies as well. So, next time he's in the way of one of your spells, fire away. When it hits him and he says something about it, tell him that if you weren't so weak and underpowered that your fireball wouldn't have almost killed him.

DabblerWizard
2010-01-12, 10:22 PM
Like others have suggested, it's not very clear whether this guy is being a jerk in or out of character. Your optimal reaction differs depending on which is the case.

If he's a nice guy in person, and is just playing a jerk character, then you can rest easy that he's not being rude because he wants to hurt you. In that case, you'll have to work on re-focusing yourself when his character directs a nasty remark at your character, saying something like: this is IC, it's not about me, it's about his character, and my character.

If he's being a jerk in person, then the best thing for you to do, is tell him, player to player, that his actions bother you, and that you would want him to stop acting that way towards you.

If he doesn't respond to this simple statement, then you can take a page out of assertive training: Don't just ignore his behavior. It'll do you no good to just let it fester inside you. Tell him very calmly and clearly: (1) This is the behavior I have a problem with; (2) This is how your behavior makes me feel; (3) This is what I'm going to do about your continued behavior (e.g. not respond to you, walk out of the room for a minute.. etc) The key would be to actually do (3), instead of just saying you will.

Sometimes it's hard to tell whether a someone is directing an insult at you or your character. Instead of letting it get to your head, figure out which is the case, and don't let it continue, if it is the case that he means you harm, as a person.

Unlike the first few posts, which I realize could be jokes, I seriously do not recommend in or out of character retaliation to his negative behavior. That would be childish on your part, and solves nothing.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-12, 10:27 PM
Unlike the first few posts, which I realize could be jokes, I seriously do not recommend in or out of character retaliation to his negative behavior. That would be childish on your part, and solves nothing.

It could very easily be the proper in-character response. Many characters have rather sensitive egos. Indulging those egos would give you RP satisfaction and, if executed correctly, no OOC tension.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-12, 10:30 PM
Unlike the first few posts, which I realize could be jokes, I seriously do not recommend in or out of character retaliation to his negative behavior. That would be childish on your part, and solves nothing.He's an adventurer. Their job description is killing things they disagree with and taking their stuff. The rogue is very disagreeable and has a lot of valuable stuff. Killing him could be a perfectly viable in-character response.

HMS Invincible
2010-01-13, 04:40 AM
These. These phrases, they sound so familiar (and great, btw). Where have I heard them before, what do they refer to?

Speaking of OoTs, I think I'll try to charm an animal to hump his leg. I can convince my DM that one of my rituals/spells can do that. Anyway, I believe that hes doing this IC but I want to make sure he knows how big a world of hurt he's gonna be in if he starts messing with me. I'll just need to remember to time it so that he'll start associating pain and humiliation to his remarks towards me.

Explosive runes... I wonder how generous my DM is towards homebrewing spells...

DabblerWizard
2010-01-13, 10:49 AM
He's an adventurer. Their job description is killing things they disagree with and taking their stuff. The rogue is very disagreeable and has a lot of valuable stuff. Killing him could be a perfectly viable in-character response.

I agree that some adventurers fit that mold, namely, chaotic, non-good leaning ones. Not all adventurers are necessarily trigger happy or so greedy that they willingly justify random killing like that. I don't mean to start a tangential discussion about the meaning of "good" and "chaos", I'm just stating my opinion.

In any case, even if a (player) character has sound in-game justification to kill another character, it's not often a wise idea to do that. I know all of my players would take that kind of behavior rather personally. They're attached to their characters and they wouldn't tolerate another player randomly killing their character. I can't say I blame them.

I think there's an underlying, unspoken rule in my gaming group, that for the sake of group harmony, you don't kill another player's character at random.

If a player wants his character to die at the hands of another player, then I don't think there's a problem. Otherwise, it seems like an obnoxious move to make. Group harmony trumps character consistency in this case, if you ask me.

Furthermore, consider the underlying justification. If a player is angry at another player, and decides to fabricate in-game reasoning to defend his essentially OOC-motivated aggression, then this player, is acting selfishly and rashly, and is hiding his actions behind the IC veil. He's allowing his anger to not only get the better of him, but to destroy the property of another player.

"Personal property?! It's just a sheet of paper!" - Characters exist not only on paper, but in the mind of the player who created them. But it's not even about the intrinsic value of a character to a given player. We're talking about respecting other players at a gaming table, and randomly killing off another player's creation is ultimately disrespectful, however you justify it.

dsmiles
2010-01-13, 10:59 AM
I agree that some adventurers fit that mold, namely, chaotic, non-good leaning ones. Not all adventurers are necessarily trigger happy or so greedy that they willingly justify random killing like that. I don't mean to start a tangential discussion about the meaning of "good" and "chaos", I'm just stating my opinion.

In any case, even if a (player) character has sound in-game justification to kill another character, it's not often a wise idea to do that. I know all of my players would take that kind of behavior rather personally. They're attached to their characters and they wouldn't tolerate another player randomly killing their character. I can't say I blame them.

And what, exactly, is wrong with being chaotic and/or non-good? And you specifically say "randomly killing." Having an IC reason is not random.

DabblerWizard
2010-01-13, 11:31 AM
And what, exactly, is wrong with being chaotic and/or non-good? And you specifically say "randomly killing." Having an IC reason is not random.

I agree that having an IC reason isn't random.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with chaotic and non-good characters. I'm just pointing out the obvious that not all adventurers fit that mindset.

I mentioned random killing because chaotic behavior, in my opinion, is un-ordered, or random. Lawful behavior, on the other hand, is presumably ordered or non random. - I could have mentioned pre-meditated killing, but that wouldn't have fit the chaotic mold very well.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-13, 12:25 PM
I agree that having an IC reason isn't random.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with chaotic and non-good characters. I'm just pointing out the obvious that not all adventurers fit that mindset.

I mentioned random killing because chaotic behavior, in my opinion, is un-ordered, or random. Lawful behavior, on the other hand, is presumably ordered or non random. - I could have mentioned pre-meditated killing, but that wouldn't have fit the chaotic mold very well.Keep in mind that the job description of a Paladin is killing things he disagrees with and taking their stuff.

Also, I'm just pointing out that his character is a very violent individual(this is D&D, after all) with access to some of the most powerful forces in the universe, and the Rogue is insulting him on a regular basis while bragging about himself. There should be an in-character response, and in some cases, a violent one. Depends on the Wizard.

Evard
2010-01-13, 01:11 PM
When i was DM'ing a 3e game a player was being a jerk in game for the hole campy, the other players found ways of hurting his character or killing him without him knowing. Never anything like killing him in his sleep (one divine caster put a weird curse on him that made him miss 50% of the time). Well since he was being a jerk in character i allowed their characters to respond however they wanted (some fuuunny outcomes happened). A couple months later i started another campy and took him aside and said he was a good player and i wanted him to join but he was a jerk to the other players, he was really surprised that he was acting that way and after telling him he stopped being so rude. Just talking to the person fixed everything and the campy worked out pretty well (was a short one though)

Xuincherguixe
2010-01-13, 02:51 PM
Yeah. Try communicating with the guy first. Don't be a jerk just because they're a jerk. That never works.

DragonBaneDM
2010-01-13, 04:07 PM
Well what's the rest of your party like? I'm sure the wizard that can craft magical items for the rest of the party has more friends than a rogue that acts like that.

DabblerWizard
2010-01-13, 06:16 PM
... There should be an in-character response, and in some cases, a violent one. Depends on the Wizard.

I agree that there should be an in-character response, even a violent one. I'm all for tense moments between characters.

If it came down to one character wanting to kill another, the ultimate extreme in violent acts, I would expect the players to work it out. I would simply remind them that there might be a big OOC rift between the players if one slaughters another.

A negative reaction to being killed by a fellow player, is probably inevitable in my gaming group.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-13, 11:50 PM
I agree that there should be an in-character response, even a violent one. I'm all for tense moments between characters.

If it came down to one character wanting to kill another, the ultimate extreme in violent acts, I would expect the players to work it out. I would simply remind them that there might be a big OOC rift between the players if one slaughters another.

A negative reaction to being killed by a fellow player, is probably inevitable in my gaming group.Wheras in some of mine, it was expected. Heck, I had one character painfully executed(painful enough that I won't go into it on this forum) because he was a serial killer(literally insane worshipper of the goddess of evil) and I was a paladin. We adventured together for months, worked together at various goals, but when I found out what he was(and he kept it hidden for all those months really well), I brought in all of the local members of my priesthood I could find to arrest and spike his character. He said it was basically exactly how he expected to die, and enjoyed every minute of it(OoC, IC not so much:smallwink:).

Moff Chumley
2010-01-17, 01:50 PM
It sounds purely IC to me but clear any OOC issues up first if it involves those too.

Then arrange with your DM the following plan:
1) Buy some Ground Thassil Root
2) Put Root in booze.
3) Challenge him to a drinking contest.
4) Hope he gets an 11 or less on the saving throw.
5) He passes out, DM withholds information since his character is knocked out.
6) Character wakes up in bed with a naked male dwarf you hired for just such an occasion.

I like this plan. :smallbiggrin:

onthetown
2010-01-17, 03:35 PM
I don't know much about 4e, but...

If it's character, use illusions and make him scream like a little girl.

If it's the player, try talking to him.

Deme
2010-01-17, 03:46 PM
My suggestion involves components on both parts:

The first is to talk to him and figure out exactly what's going on in his head. If he's being a jerk, ask him sincerely to stop. If he won't, you're out of really effective options besides consulting your group, including your DM, and see if it's just you.

If he's saying it's just his character, then ask what he would prefer, whether he a) would mind stopping, lessening, or re-directing his jerkatude, or b) whether he wants the interparty conflict in the form of a V-and-Belkar-esque prank war. If B is your option, you see you have a lot of ideas.