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AtwasAwamps
2010-01-12, 02:45 PM
I’m thinking of making up a Master of Many Forms and I’m trying to figure a few things out. I’m wondering if perhaps the Playgrounders can help me.

I plan on entering via wild-shape ranger. Are there any extreme disadvantages to this I should be aware of? I’m avoiding druid because there is (theoretically) already a druid in the party and my conceptual fluff works better with a ranger.

If ranger is an alright option, I was planning on taking an eagle or hawk for my animal companion…useless in combat, really, but it’s main purpose will be to scout ahead for the party. Is there an ACF I should pick up instead of this?

I’m torn on races…changeling or human? How exactly does minor shapechange work? According to the MOMF handbook I read, you could disguise yourself as a human while wild-shaped as a Kython…that seems a bit much to me. Any advice here? I really have no idea how it works.

Serenity
2010-01-12, 03:14 PM
My instinct is that it might actually be better; a druid loses out on casting by taking a MoMF, but the ranger has never been a particularly focused caster.

Everyman
2010-01-12, 03:35 PM
Ranger would be superior to druid, since they don't loose out as much as a druid due to the spellcasting. However, I seem to remember that a ranger's wildshape variant is actually much weaker than a druid's. Something about being restricted to animals of a certain size, I think.

You might want to review the concept with your DM, if there are such restrictions. Especially if the ranger text says anything about rangers never gaining larger forms. However, if it all checks out (or gets houseruled in), the extra BAB and skill points should make you a much better MoMF.

Danin
2010-01-12, 03:36 PM
Ranger entry for MoMF is far better than druid for a few reasons. First of all, full BAB to start helps you to hit in melee. It means that you have a slightly higher chance to hit than the animal you transform into as they have 3/4 BAB. Secondly, the skills you get at levels 1 - 5 will be nice. You really loose nothing of value by going the Ranger rout and gain everything.

The hawk / eagle / any kind of raptor animal companion is always a good choice for scouting, but really aren't the best for it. I think I had decided on a rat or a squirrel for mine, as it can more easily hide in plain sight*. While the eagle might have a good bonus to spot, by flying a few hundred feet up it takes more than a few penalties. Still, it's whatever floats your boat. I strongly recommend taking natural bond (+4 effective druid level for your animal companion, up to your HD) for the needed boost, and maybe a 1 level dip in beastmaster for a further +3.

As to the race debate, humans are always good. I'm not sure on the rules for Changelings but you're right, that does sound silly. Try looking at Raptorans as a race. Nothing says cool like dive bombing your enemy and turning into a sperm whale just before impact. Or a sword fish, just for the sake of being able to say you impaled someone with a frigging swordfish.

*I don't mean the class feature but rather the ability to be observed and not cared about.

AtwasAwamps
2010-01-12, 03:45 PM
Ranger would be superior to druid, since they don't loose out as much as a druid due to the spellcasting. However, I seem to remember that a ranger's wildshape variant is actually much weaker than a druid's. Something about being restricted to animals of a certain size, I think.

You might want to review the concept with your DM, if there are such restrictions. Especially if the ranger text says anything about rangers never gaining larger forms. However, if it all checks out (or gets houseruled in), the extra BAB and skill points should make you a much better MoMF.


Ranger wild-shape is "Gain Wild-shape as a druid, small/medium animals only" Levels in MOMF give you access to every other thing you could want, essentially. So that's irrelevant, since Ranger entry allows you to take MOMF levels starting with your sixth level!

Interesting thought on rat/squirrel. Might go with that. Thanks.

Akal Saris
2010-01-12, 04:02 PM
Nah, ranger should be good for this. I'd go with human, you'll be a bit feat-starved with wildshape ranger anyhow.

For ACFs, I like trading spell-casting away for a bonus feat (Complete CHampion), esp. if you won't get many ranger wands in the game. Likewise the pet can be traded for some stuff from Dungeonscape, though I like having an animal companion anyhow, even a very weak one.

After MoMF, the nature's warrior PrC or the warshaper are both solid follow-ups by the way.

deuxhero
2010-01-12, 04:24 PM
I prefer mystic ranger (Dragon) myself (though it's well... dragon).

Draz74
2010-01-12, 04:59 PM
After MoMF, the nature's warrior PrC or the warshaper are both solid follow-ups by the way.

Quoted for emphasis.

Also, depending on party composition (i.e. whether you have a Rogue in the party), the Distracting Attack ACF in the PHB2 may be superior to having an Animal Companion. In fact, I'm sure it will be, since MoMF won't advance your Companion anyway. Note that if you trade the Animal Companion away for whatever, you can always get another one -- slightly tougher -- by taking the Wild Cohort feat.

Soranar
2010-01-12, 05:52 PM
actually the moon warded ranger (you gain your wisdom to AC but lose combat style) is much better EDIT scratch that I was just ninja'd

you get endurance as a bonus feat to qualify for master of many forms

throw in a level of battledancer (CHA to AC) and a chaotic monk and you get every mental stat to AC while wildshaped except INT

AtwasAwamps
2010-01-12, 10:46 PM
actually the moon warded ranger (you gain your wisdom to AC but lose combat style) is much better

How do you qualify with MOMF with this? You have to have combat style to give up to take Ranger Wildshape.

Dr Bwaa
2010-01-12, 10:52 PM
Just going to chime in with the others saying the best entry is through wild-shape ranger. You gain a ton and lose almost nothing.

Also, if you're not aware of the MoMF Bible (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19528526/updated_Master_of_Many_Forms_Bible__official_wild_ shape_rules), you should be.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-13, 03:25 AM
Warshaper is a good PrC for a few levels. Three-level dip nets you extra reach and damage, plus nifty imunities. Nature's Warrior is good for a one or three level dip as well. Fast Healing or +1 Enhancement bonus to all natural attacks and counts as magic (always on, unlike Magic Fang), or DR 3/- may be situationally useful to you.

So: Wildshape Ranger 5/MoMF10/Warshaper 4/Nature's Warrior 1?

Pharaoh's Fist
2010-01-13, 03:33 AM
If you're a dwarf, consider levels in Deepwarden and Fist of the Forest for Con to AC twice.