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taltamir
2010-01-12, 08:08 PM
So, I thought to myself, what are the best spells from each school? there are tons of sub par spells or redundant spells nobody cares about, but what do you really lose, what spells are the top of the top that some loses out on.

For example, if you ban conjuration, you miss out on teleportation. And if you ban evocation, you miss out on contingency (unless emulatable via shadow evocation). And if you ban enchantment, you miss out on mindrape.

So what are the best unique spells that truely stand out in each school of magic? Bonus points if you name one that is not from core; the more obscure the better.

FishAreWet
2010-01-12, 08:10 PM
Enchantment
Necromancy
Evocation

In almost every case, ban in that order.

NEVER BAN CONJURATION or Transmutation.

The Dark Fiddler
2010-01-12, 08:12 PM
Enchantment
Necromancy
Evocation

In almost every case, ban in that order.

NEVER BAN CONJURATION or Transmutation.

That wasn't the question at all. :smalltongue:

SurlySeraph
2010-01-12, 08:35 PM
Enchantment: Lots of "Will-save-or-be-screwed" spells, and a few buffs.
Evocation: Yo dawg, I heard you like direct damage, so we put direct damage on your direct damage so you can do damage while you do damage. And, maddeningly, it's less direct damage than you can do with Conjuration. You also lose some useful battlefield control from Force effects, but not a lot. Also Contingency, but you can take the Craft Contingency feat.
Necromancy: Strong debuffing abilities, a bit of summoning and direct damage.
Transmutation: Lots of buffs and battlefield control, some debuffs and a bit of direct damage.
Illusion: Lots of Will save-based effects, some battlefield control, and everything Evocation can do (via Shadow Evocation).
Conjuration: Conjuration has spells for everything, but what you'll most miss are the great single-target direct damage (the Orb of X spells), teleportation, and summoning.

Eldariel
2010-01-12, 08:36 PM
Alright, I'll try for a quick list:

Abjuration: DISPEL MAGIC, Disjunction, Mind Blank, Anticipate Teleport, Anti-Magic Field, Protection from Alignment, Magic Circle against Alignment (take note with regards to Planar Binding), Dimensional Anchor (again, Binding), Alarm, Dimensional Lock, Prismatic Sphere

Conjuration: Teleportation, Planar Binding-line, Glitterdust, Web, Grease, Stinking Cloud (and higher-ups), Solid Fog, Orbs, Summon Monster-line, Gate, Maze, Wall of Stone, Wall of Iron, Phantom Steed, X Creation, Caltrops...please just don't ban it. I'm only half-way through...

Divination: True Strike, Assay Resistance, True Casting, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Contact Other Plane, Foresight, Moment of Prescience, Greater Scrying, See Invisibility, True Seeing, Greater Prying Eyes, Unluck & Rogue-stuff (Sniper's Shot, Golem Strike, etc.)

Enchantment: Daze, Charm Person, Charm Monster, Dominate Monster, Mind Rape, Programmed Amnesia, Hold Monster, Feeblemind Mindrape, Ray of Stupidity, Dominate Person, Sleep, Ray of Dizziness, Heroism-line

Evocation: Contingency, Wall of Force, Instant Refuge, Forcecage, Resilient Sphere, Wind Wall, Combust, Scorching Ray, Seeking Ray, Magic Missile

Illusion: Color Spray, Simulacrum, Project Image, Silent Image, Mirror Image, Displacement, Invisibility-line, Shadow Evocation, Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Walk, Mirage Arcana, Legion of Sentinels, etc.

Necromancy: False Life, Enervation, Astral Projection, Clone, Waves of Fatigue, Ray of Exhaustion, Ray of Enfeeblement, Spectral Hand, Avasculate, Fort SoDs

Transmutation: Enlarge Person, Rope Trick, Reduce Person, Alter Self, Fly, Overland Flight, Plane Shift, Polymorph-line, Slow, Haste, Baleful Polymorph, Ghostform, Bite of the Werex, Greater Blink, Blink, Ironguard, Bull's Strength-line, Greater Magic Weapon, Launch Bolt, Mage Hand, Heroics, Wraithstrike, etc. And yeah, only half-way through here too.

Brendan
2010-01-12, 08:38 PM
Evocation loses contingency and a few other gems, but the rest is just direct damage that can be replicated.
Enchantment loses compulsion and the symbol ofs
necromancy loses a lot of killing spells, and undead creating
conjuration loses everything
As does transmutation
illusion loses the evocation replication and some tricks
abjuration loses your only direct protection

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-12, 09:09 PM
abjuration loses your only direct protectionOutside of Illusion and Transmutation. They actually have better defensive spells in the form of Greater Mirror Image and Fly.

Eldariel
2010-01-12, 09:13 PM
Outside of Illusion and Transmutation. They actually have better defensive spells in the form of Greater Mirror Image and Fly.

Abjuration does contain some very keys in Anticipate Teleport and Mind Blank though; along with Disjunction, Dispels and the tools you need for Planar Binding (Magic Circle against Evil, Dimensional Anchor) and Dimensional Lock. Oh, and Maw of Chaos, of course.

Gralamin
2010-01-12, 09:16 PM
Outside of Illusion and Transmutation. They actually have better defensive spells in the form of Greater Mirror Image and Fly.

You and your Greater Mirror Image. Ironguard / Ray Deflection - wait, I remember this argument. It ended with heavy agreeing that Maw of Chaos is awesome, if I remember correctly.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-12, 09:28 PM
You and your Greater Mirror Image. Ironguard / Ray Deflection - wait, I remember this argument. It ended with heavy agreeing that Maw of Chaos is awesome, if I remember correctly.Immediate action for 89% miss chance. I have had a lot of DMs that like hitting the party with an ambush for very little buff time, so immediate=good.

And yes, Maw of Chaos is awesome.

Brendan
2010-01-12, 09:30 PM
that was mostly from memory, so forgive the exceptions. However, I'll just say: You lose the least from evocation.

Sharkman1231
2010-01-12, 11:26 PM
All schools have really awesome spells worth keeping. The only ration decision is thus:
BAN THE UNIVERSAL SCHOOL!!!

Oh wait, nevermind...
Yeah, my wizards don't specialize.

Killer Angel
2010-01-13, 03:01 AM
And if you ban evocation, you miss out on contingency (unless emulatable via shadow evocation)

A fact that I always like to point out, is that shadow evocation is ok, but you duplicate the spell later. So, for contingency, if you develope the character while playing and if you've banned evocation, you had to wait 3 levels to duplicate the spell. Which isn't exactly good.
(I know, the answer is craft contingent spell, but is frequently banned)

Eldariel
2010-01-13, 03:10 AM
A fact that I always like to point out, is that shadow evocation is ok, but you duplicate the spell later. So, for contingency, if you develope the character while playing and if you've banned evocation, you had to wait 3 levels to duplicate the spell. Which isn't exactly good.
(I know, the answer is craft contingent spell, but is frequently banned)

Two levels. But yeah.

Longcat
2010-01-13, 05:03 AM
BAN THE UNIVERSAL SCHOOL!!!


And lose Predistigitation and Wish? No way, sir!

@Topic: The only school you can savely ban without loosing anything is Evocation, thanks to Shadow Evocation.

Doc Roc
2010-01-13, 05:24 AM
Streamers is Evocation.
Freaking Astral Projection is necromancy.

JaronK
2010-01-13, 05:50 AM
Evocation: lose the ability to cast evocations without having Shadow Evocation, which you do have. Easy drop!

Enchantment: lose a bunch of charms and other mind screwy spells. Good drop if it's kick in the door hacky slashy, but might be a bad plan if intrigue is the order of the day for this campaign. Then again, you can always kill them and reanimate them.

Abjuration: Lose Shrink Item, Dispell Magic, and Explosive Runes. Go cry in a corner when you hit 5th level and realize this. Also, lose Maw of Chaos, which is the best Wizard blast spell (take that Evocation!).

Illusion: Lose all those evocation spells! Also Mirror Image, and Colorspray. Ouch.

Conjuration: Lose the ability to build a castle when you're bored, summon the hordes of heaven or hell to do your bidding, and cast Glitterdust. That's bad.

Transmutation: Lose the ability to shape that castle you build with conjuration, and the ability to turn into the hordes of heaven or hell. Also, everything else you could turn into. Lame.

Necromancy: Lose the ability to animate everything you ever defeat. Could get that back with spell stitching though. Also, Shivering Touch.

JaronK

Cyclocone
2010-01-13, 06:30 AM
And lose Predistigitation and Wish? No way, sir!

And Rary's Arcane Conversion, and Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability.

Anyways, the ones I can remember:

Abjuration: (Greater) Dispel Magic, Mind Blank, Disjunction, Duelward, Energy Immunity, Superior Resistance, Ironguard, Maw of Chaos (can this be mentioned enough?), Antimagic Field/Ray, Planar Bubble, Prismatic Wall, Ray Deflection, Reaving Dispel, Shrinshe's Spell Shift, Spell Turning, Anticipate Teleportation

Divination: Contact Other Plane, Scrying, , Foresight, Moment of Prescience, Assay Spell Resistance, Unluck, (Greater) Arcane Sight, True Casting/Seeing/Strike, Battlemagic Perception, Detect Thoughts

Enchantment: Mindrape, the Dominates, Ray of Stupidity, Irresistible Dance, Power Word Pain, Final Rebuke, Sleep

Evocation: (Chain) Contingency, Resilient Sphere, Forcecage, Howling Chain, Sonorous Hum, Invoke Magic, Streamers, the old Moonbow, Iceberg, Defenestrating Sphere, Shatter, Wind Wall, Scorching Ray, Radiant Assault, Explosive Cascade, Channeled Pyroburst, D-B Fireball (only with timestop),

Illusion: Solipsism, Simulacrum, Ice Assassin, (Greater) Mirror Image, (Greater/Superior) Invisibility, Major/Persistent/Project Image, Mislead, the Shadow Evocation/Conjurations, Color Spray

Necromancy: Veil of Undeath, Astral Projection, Shivering Touch, Fleshshiver, Desiccating Bubble, Enervation, Fear, Animate Dead, Magic Jar, Hide Life, Clone, Avasculate/Avascular Mass, Necrotic Skull Bomb, Ray of Enfeeblement, Waves/Ray of Exhaustion, Finger of Death, Wail of the Banshee, 3.0 Horrid Wilting, Vampiric Touch, False Life


Since I don't have all day, I'll just skip Conjuration and Transmutation.

Anonymouswizard
2010-01-13, 06:41 AM
I'll go with conjuration and transmutation:

Conjuration: (greater) teleport, dimension door, the orbs (unless you are not using any blasty spells), about half the rest of the school.

Transmutation: fly, many buff spells, polymorph, PAO, timestop, at least a quarter of the school, in core.

And no wizard would ban anything. Except for evocation. Wizards invented the internet.

Killer Angel
2010-01-13, 07:43 AM
And no wizard would ban anything. Except for evocation.

Unless you are a diviner, you cannot be a specialist and limit the banning to evocation... (at least, in Core. In the end, you lose something valuable, while the tradeoff can be still positive)

Starbuck_II
2010-01-13, 08:08 AM
Ban them all: use Disjunction on an artifact!

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-13, 08:42 AM
And no wizard would ban anything. Except for evocation. Wizards invented the internet.

Evocation and Enchantment, actually. Too many things are immune to Enchantment spells (because, RAW, they all have the Mind-Affecting tag even if they don't say it), and Evocation is inefficient.

taltamir
2010-01-16, 02:38 PM
Alright, I'll try for a quick list:

Abjuration: DISPEL MAGIC, Disjunction, Mind Blank, Anticipate Teleport, Anti-Magic Field, Protection from Alignment, Magic Circle against Alignment (take note with regards to Planar Binding), Dimensional Anchor (again, Binding), Alarm, Dimensional Lock, Prismatic Sphere

Conjuration: Teleportation, Planar Binding-line, Glitterdust, Web, Grease, Stinking Cloud (and higher-ups), Solid Fog, Orbs, Summon Monster-line, Gate, Maze, Wall of Stone, Wall of Iron, Phantom Steed, X Creation, Caltrops...please just don't ban it. I'm only half-way through...

Divination: True Strike, Assay Resistance, True Casting, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Contact Other Plane, Foresight, Moment of Prescience, Greater Scrying, See Invisibility, True Seeing, Greater Prying Eyes, Unluck & Rogue-stuff (Sniper's Shot, Golem Strike, etc.)

Enchantment: Daze, Charm Person, Charm Monster, Dominate Monster, Mind Rape, Programmed Amnesia, Hold Monster, Feeblemind Mindrape, Ray of Stupidity, Dominate Person, Sleep, Ray of Dizziness, Heroism-line

Evocation: Contingency, Wall of Force, Instant Refuge, Forcecage, Resilient Sphere, Wind Wall, Combust, Scorching Ray, Seeking Ray, Magic Missile

Illusion: Color Spray, Simulacrum, Project Image, Silent Image, Mirror Image, Displacement, Invisibility-line, Shadow Evocation, Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Walk, Mirage Arcana, Legion of Sentinels, etc.

Necromancy: False Life, Enervation, Astral Projection, Clone, Waves of Fatigue, Ray of Exhaustion, Ray of Enfeeblement, Spectral Hand, Avasculate, Fort SoDs

Transmutation: Enlarge Person, Rope Trick, Reduce Person, Alter Self, Fly, Overland Flight, Plane Shift, Polymorph-line, Slow, Haste, Baleful Polymorph, Ghostform, Bite of the Werex, Greater Blink, Blink, Ironguard, Bull's Strength-line, Greater Magic Weapon, Launch Bolt, Mage Hand, Heroics, Wraithstrike, etc. And yeah, only half-way through here too.

this is what I was looking for... very nice list

mostlyharmful
2010-01-16, 03:34 PM
Mind-affecting is the kiss of death to an entire school, luckily it's also the smallest crappiest school in the game (evocation has Contingency, Shatter, Wall of Force, Miracle (if you get the luck domain) and the fun times of defenestrating sphere).

Be a Div specialist, if you really want to up your mindganking abilities beyound Illusion and bound minions then get the three feats from lost empires of faerun that gives you a school back.

taltamir
2010-01-16, 04:08 PM
well... enchantment being "mind effecting" is a pretty big deal... but it has mindrape which is a really useful spell.

Feeblemind is just cruel... and dominate, while not effective when you want it to due to being mind effecting, is unbelievable if done right.

EX:
You bring a taskforce of bugbears/orcs/whatever to kill the kings guards, capture the king, remove magical protections, dominate him... then kill the remaining bugbears/orcs/whatever... Have the king explain to the reinforcements that you saved him if any arrive, if not then the two of you can come back to the court and have him tell everyone how you saved him from assassins and give you position and power (just an excuse for you to remain close to him)...
start acting quickly, get rid of any other casters in the area, get wedded to the king's daughter... some time later they have an unfortunate accident... you are now the king. Or just have them become reclusive, and when someone HAS to see them, well they do. A dominated king puppet.

mostlyharmful
2010-01-16, 04:27 PM
well... enchantment being "mind effecting" is a pretty big deal... but it has mindrape which is a really useful spell.

a really useful NINTH LEVEL spell. sure.:smallfrown:

Lysander
2010-01-16, 05:58 PM
My run down:

Abjuration: A must have. Dispel Magic. Endure Elements. Protection from Arrows. Lots of things that keep you alive or stop magic. Not having abjuration is like not wearing pants.

Conjuration: teleport. It has teleport. Yeah it can make webs and clouds and monsters but teleport. That's all there is to it. The rest is a bonus.

Divination: You can't ban it!

Enchantment: This is one of those things you need or one of those things you don't. It depends on the game. Maybe your wizard can get through life just by killing or threatening to kill anyone in their way. But if they're part of society instead of loners in a tower or adventurers in the middle of a dungeon, having mind control powers is pretty damn useful. I know that I in real life would rather be able to cast Suggestion than Meteor Swarm.

Evocation: In defense of evocation. Shadow Evocation only replicates up to 4th level spells. So you'll never get contingency if you ban evocation. Or other useful spells that don't deal direct damage like Sending, Forcecage, Telekinetic Sphere, etc. And stuff that you do get, like Resilient Sphere, now allows a will save to ignore it. Also, evocation has some great damaging spells at lower levels. Sure Shadow Evocation lets you cast Magic Missile, but not with a 1st level spell slot. I think evocation is a little too heavily discounted - it actually is really good at what it does. The only problem is that any party member can deal damage, so a wizard is better off providing utility spells and battlefield control than saving the barbarian from doing some work. But it has a plethora of spells that don't allow saving throws and deal a lot of damage to a lot of people. Don't dismiss it as "just damage." Just damage means a lot of dead enemies.

Illusion: This is also one of those things you need or don't just like enchantment. Except instead of controlling their mind outright you outwit it. What I like about it is that's it's only limited by your creativity as a player.

Necromancy: Zombies slaves! Negative buffs. And a slow wizard version of resurrection, and some ways of stopping other people from resurrecting. And don't forget astral projection. But mostly zombies. I'm not a huge fan of this school. Not too much to do unless you're evil, in which case it's pretty much mandatory.

Transmutation: Everything.

--------------------

So that's my opinion at least. Personally I'd ban Enchantment or Evocation and Necromancy. Undead servants are useful but who wants to do that much rolling in battle? Plus, ya know, evil. If you're going to blast people ban enchantment, if you're going to rule people ban evocation.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-16, 06:05 PM
By banning Conjuration, you lose D&D.

taltamir
2010-01-16, 06:41 PM
By banning Conjuration, you lose D&D.

V in OOTS banned conjuration...

Tyndmyr
2010-01-16, 07:27 PM
And we saw how troublesome that was, didn't we? :smallbiggrin:

Lysander
2010-01-16, 09:55 PM
V in OOTS banned conjuration...

Conjuration is also a natural adventurer killer though. No travel. No wondrous vistas to explore and venture through. Poof. You're there. How exciting. It makes your character more powerful, but the best games are ones with limitations.

Optimystik
2010-01-16, 10:13 PM
Conjuration is also a natural adventurer killer though. No travel. No wondrous vistas to explore and venture through. Poof. You're there. How exciting. It makes your character more powerful, but the best games are ones with limitations.

This is the kind of argument I can never understand. If you want to limit yourself by not teleporting, keep conjuration and just don't teleport.

It's like a painter voluntarily gouging his eyes out just to prove to everyone he can paint without looking at the canvas - when he could have just painted with his eyes closed instead.

Besides conjurers can do (MANY) things besides teleporting.

taltamir
2010-01-16, 10:32 PM
Conjuration is also a natural adventurer killer though. No travel. No wondrous vistas to explore and venture through. Poof. You're there. How exciting. It makes your character more powerful, but the best games are ones with limitations.

this is only sensible if the DM bans teleport, for everyone... rather then YOU banning it for your character, and everyone else having it.

Superglucose
2010-01-16, 10:43 PM
I love Necro... Ennervation is probably my favorite spell ever. Plus a lot of them either have no save or have effects on failed saves, even lower levels. Ray of Enfeeblement has uses at all levels, Ray of Exhaustion has uses at all levels, etc. etc.

Optimystik
2010-01-16, 10:53 PM
Necromancy is great, but suffers from the same weaknesses as Enchantment:

1) one spell blocks half the school,
2) many high-CR monsters are immune.

Where it wins out - it targets two saves instead of just one, and it does have 'summons' for when its tricks are blocked. Also, plenty of no-save-just-suck effects, as you mentioned.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-16, 11:10 PM
this is only sensible if the DM bans teleport, for everyone... rather then YOU banning it for your character, and everyone else having it.

A world without teleport...or with only limited versions, like Dimension Door, seems reasonable. But yeah, if the DMs worried about teleport, he should do that. Banning conjuration instead is a pretty rough solution.

Twilight Jack
2010-01-17, 02:29 AM
I always ban Enchantment when playing a specialist wizard. Too many things are immune to the entire school, and a single 1st level spell nerfs all its best applications. If you're playing a wizard, you're wasting your time, and if you're really into controlling the minds of others, play a psion or a beguiler. If you really need to mess with minds as a wizard, Illusion has a few spells that will do the trick just fine.

My other choice of easily banned school is dependent on my character's alignment. If I tend towards good I ban Necromancy; if I tend towards evil I ban Evocation. To me, those three are the holy trinity of easily banned schools.

Most of Abjuration's better defenses can be made up for between Transmutation and Illusion, but dispel magic is just too necessary in my opinion.

Mewtarthio
2010-01-17, 02:48 AM
well... enchantment being "mind effecting" is a pretty big deal... but it has mindrape which is a really useful spell.

Feeblemind is just cruel... and dominate, while not effective when you want it to due to being mind effecting, is unbelievable if done right.

EX:
You bring a taskforce of bugbears/orcs/whatever to kill the kings guards, capture the king, remove magical protections, dominate him... then kill the remaining bugbears/orcs/whatever... Have the king explain to the reinforcements that you saved him if any arrive, if not then the two of you can come back to the court and have him tell everyone how you saved him from assassins and give you position and power (just an excuse for you to remain close to him)...
start acting quickly, get rid of any other casters in the area, get wedded to the king's daughter... some time later they have an unfortunate accident... you are now the king. Or just have them become reclusive, and when someone HAS to see them, well they do. A dominated king puppet.

It's a flat DC 15 Sense Motive check for anyone to tell if someone has been dominated. Fully one quarter of all untrained commoners will notice something's up, and the nobility will almost certainly see there's a problem. You'd be better off attempting to perform a convincing ventriloquism act with his zombified corpse. Seriously, even with magic, replacing a king won't be easy.

Optimystik
2010-01-17, 03:32 AM
Most of Abjuration's better defenses can be made up for between Transmutation and Illusion, but dispel magic is just too necessary in my opinion.

It's extremely useful; but it's also on the cleric's and bard's lists.

mostlyharmful
2010-01-17, 03:36 AM
Yeah but mindblank, disjunction, maw of chaos, scintillating scales, anticipate teleport, ray deflection, superior resistance, the ironguard line and energy immunity aren't. which would be a shame to lose.

2xMachina
2010-01-17, 03:38 AM
^ Mindrape, don't dominate. (High lvled though).

Just add that they trust you above all else. Done. Mind you don't go overboard though, and you'll be fine. (You'd get rumors that the royal son-in-law in a magician, but nothing much, since you don't actually do much)

Though as far as I care, wizard with 9th lvl spells live well enough to be a king without needing to BE a king. (MMM for housing, Invisible Servants, Prestidigitation for taste. Though your MMM cooks well enough in any case. You've ways to make infinite money... Adventuring pays very well (go plane of earth and take diamonds.)

You can also charm the princess and king, without needing to dominate. King thinks you're a decent guy, princess loves you. You're now in the royal family. Wait for succession. And charm/diplomance him when you need to convince the king to make certain policy changes.

Eldariel
2010-01-17, 06:29 AM
Conjuration is also a natural adventurer killer though. No travel. No wondrous vistas to explore and venture through. Poof. You're there. How exciting. It makes your character more powerful, but the best games are ones with limitations.

Eh, given you need to know something about your target to efficiently teleport, well...anywhere, and that important dungeons of any kind are probably warded against Teleportation and that you need to search for locations, I don't really see the problem.

It changes the nature of the game, of course, but that's kinda expected for high-level D&D. I think Bastion of the Broken Souls does it right; it's built for high-level characters so teleportation, scrying, planeshifting and similar abilities are right up assumed. In fact, they're written into the adventure and for a plane-spanning adventure, it isn't really even possible to play without them. High-level D&D adventure should be like that IMHO; utilize those abilities instead of avoiding them, making them features, not bugs.


I mean, sure, you don't run into bandits while teleporting, but given normal bandits wouldn't really be a challenge for PCs around level 9+ anyways (other than in LARGE numbers; hundreds) without making them implausibly high-leveled, I think that's actually desirable.

It allows you to mostly throw level-appropriate and overpowering encounters at the PCs without breaking the immersion. I could that as a benefit, not a drawback. Especially since level-appropriate encounters tend to also have similar traveling powers and thus the PCs' location doesn't really matter when seeing what they face, provided they're antagonistic with some group of similar power.


Also, Conjuration without Teleport is still among the Top 3 schools; all the Cloud-effects, Binding-effects, some of the best level 1-3 spells, Orbs and so on are Conjurations. It just changes the order a bit; without Teleport, I'd consider Transmutation to be the #1 school with Conjuration coming in second.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-17, 09:32 AM
It's easier to manipulate the king indirectly. High bluff checks...charming key people. Sure, it may not grant the overt power that replacing a king might, but it's pretty useful, and if done cleverly, much more failproof than a dominate or a mindrape, either of which is quite noticable to those around....leading to increasing numbers of dominates/mindrapes.

CTLC
2010-01-18, 12:47 AM
well, im making a character, a pixie wizard 1.
im banning enchant and illus, but i dont know what to do about my specialization school. i know i want the extra spells, and wizards are not rare in my groups. and i am staying a pixie.
any ideas?

Sophismata
2010-01-18, 01:08 AM
Focused Specialist Conjurer. Drop Enchant, Illusion (?) and Evocation, take the Abrupt Jaunt ACF from PH2 (it replaces your familiar).

CTLC
2010-01-18, 01:10 AM
abrupt jaunt is very nice, conjuration isnt really.

Eldariel
2010-01-18, 03:41 AM
abrupt jaunt is very nice, conjuration isnt really.

What can't you do with Conjuration? Name one thing. I'll show you how Conjuration accomplishes that. It also has the best enduring low-level magic (Grease, Glitterdust, Web, etc.) which makes it pretty damn important for a Wizard with Level Adjustment 4.

Banning Illusion...well, you have the racial Greater Invisibility, but I hope you know what you're doing. Maybe there's a method here. Still, Color Spray is a very decent spell even on 5-6 and lots of the important defensive buffs are Illusion, as are free Forcecages and Trap the Souls. As are Simulacrums and tools through which you can cast spells while lacking Line of Effect and so on.

Kantolin
2010-01-18, 03:44 AM
Generally, the main problem with teleport requires scrying as well. You can't really teleport somewhere you've never been.

Personally, I like /being/ at the exotic locales, and exploring said locales searching for what I'm looking for, than... uh, walking through the forest and being attacked by something that appears after some rolls on a random encounter table.

Then once you /are/ at an exotic locale, having teleport cuts out a lot of the DM saying, "You arrive back home with no problems, deliver the message/information/item/whatzit, and manage to make it back where nothing happens." Or perhaps it does cut out random encounters.

I'm not very fond of random encounters. Give me plot, please.

CTLC
2010-01-18, 10:27 AM
What can't you do with Conjuration? Name one thing. I'll show you how Conjuration accomplishes that. It also has the best enduring low-level magic (Grease, Glitterdust, Web, etc.) which makes it pretty damn important for a Wizard with Level Adjustment 4.

Banning Illusion...well, you have the racial Greater Invisibility, but I hope you know what you're doing. Maybe there's a method here. Still, Color Spray is a very decent spell even on 5-6 and lots of the important defensive buffs are Illusion, as are free Forcecages and Trap the Souls. As are Simulacrums and tools through which you can cast spells while lacking Line of Effect and so on.

well, i agree that conjuration is quite versatile [as is illusion] but i dont need it to do the work of other schools if i havent banned them. As for the low level, we level quite quickly, and it takes less xp to get from 1 - 2 then 5-6, so i dont think ill be too far behind for too long. By free forcecages, are you talking about the shadow spells, because if i dont ban the things i would shadow, then its redundant. And i agree with kantolin, teleporting ruins some of it for me. Some dms ive had are less than creative.

onthetown
2010-01-18, 10:39 AM
Enchantment
Necromancy
Evocation

In almost every case, ban in that order.

NEVER BAN CONJURATION or Transmutation.

I love Enchantment and Necromancy. They work well together.

I have issues with banning schools so I can specialize because it's hard to pick what you want to lose.

I wouldn't suggest banning Enchantment unless you're playing Dragonlance and you're a White Robe Wizard. You miss holding power over people.

Ditto the lists of awesome spells that have been said.

CTLC
2010-01-18, 10:45 AM
now, one thing i find delicious about conjuration is the summon elemental reserve feat. but, if i dont specialize, id need a way to get more spells. even though my int is 24

Eldariel
2010-01-18, 10:55 AM
well, i agree that conjuration is quite versatile [as is illusion] but i dont need it to do the work of other schools if i havent banned them. As for the low level, we level quite quickly, and it takes less xp to get from 1 - 2 then 5-6, so i dont think ill be too far behind for too long. By free forcecages, are you talking about the shadow spells, because if i dont ban the things i would shadow, then its redundant. And i agree with kantolin, teleporting ruins some of it for me. Some dms ive had are less than creative.

Well, you'll never need to cast a Teleport-spell to make Conjuration among the two best schools in the game. The Cloud/Web/Dust-style spells (control-spells with SoX effects), Bindings and Summons are enough for that.

Dvandemon
2010-01-18, 10:55 AM
I'm trying to make a Kobold character that chose Divination so he only had to ban one class. This is useful for making traps with spells from every school 'cept Necromancy

dyslexicfaser
2010-01-18, 01:40 PM
It's easier to manipulate the king indirectly. High bluff checks...charming key people. Sure, it may not grant the overt power that replacing a king might, but it's pretty useful, and if done cleverly, much more failproof than a dominate or a mindrape, either of which is quite noticable to those around....leading to increasing numbers of dominates/mindrapes.

"Gorb, this is turning into one of those plans. You know, the kind where we mindrape everybody who notices that we're mindraping people?"

EDIT: Necromancy's not bad. Mass Contagion and Mass Avasculate are pretty awesome. So are the ray debuffs, and turning your enemies into puppet-corpses. I still ban it anyway.

Eldariel
2010-01-18, 01:42 PM
"Gorb, this is turning into one of those plans. You know, the kind where we mindrape everybody who notices that we're mindraping people?"

Your sentence contained excess letters I didn't really understand so I took the freedom to fix it.

Pigkappa
2010-01-18, 01:55 PM
Focused Specialist Conjurer. Drop Enchant, Illusion (?) and Evocation, take the Abrupt Jaunt ACF from PH2 (it replaces your familiar).

Don't take Abrupt Jaunt. That's totally broken, it could ruin any game IMO. If you want to take that, tell your DM what it does and that it will be nearly impossible to hit you in melee for many monsters, and have his approval...