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View Full Version : Will i regret this? (3.5)



ShakeHandsMan
2010-01-12, 09:46 PM
So i'm running a level 10 group through the tomb of horrors this weekend (i'll be dropping in a few random encounters to give it a good mix of combat and puzzles), and pre-making several characters as most of my group is relatively green and will be working their way through them pretty quickly. When i got to the wizard i was contemplating just giving the character a spell book with all the Level 5 and lower spells from the PHB to give the players a good feeling of the wizards options. is this a horrible, horrible mistake?
Also, below is the list of PCs im making, keeping it simple, no prestige classes.
Sorcerer, Rogue, Fighter sword and board, TWF Ranger, Druid, MHB Healer, Psychic warrior, Psion, Warlock, Bard, Barbarian, Dragon Fire Adept, Dread Necromancer, Beguiler, Neg. energy Cleric, Pos. energy Cleric, Wizard, Warmage.

deuxhero
2010-01-12, 09:49 PM
So i'm running a level 10 group through the tomb of horrors this weekend (i'll be dropping in a few random encounters to give it a good mix of combat and puzzles), and pre-making several characters as most of my group is relatively green and will be working their way through them pretty quickly. When i got to the wizard i was contemplating just giving the character a spell book with all the Level 5 and lower spells from the PHB to give the players a good feeling of the wizards options. is this a horrible, horrible mistake?
Also, below is the list of PCs im making, keeping it simple, no prestige classes.
Sorcerer, Rogue, Fighter sword and board, TWF Ranger, Druid, MHB Healer, Psychic warrior, Psion, Warlock, Bard, Barbarian, Dragon Fire Adept, Dread Necromancer, Beguiler, Neg. energy Cleric, Pos. energy Cleric, Wizard.

Everything I have heard about the ToH says the 2 bolded items in concert is a bad idea.

For some intresting builds, I'd go with Wildshape Ranger over TWF ranger and keep brown bear/fleshraker/some flyer for scouting handy.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-01-12, 09:49 PM
When i got to the wizard i was contemplating just giving the character a spell book with all the Level 5 and lower spells from the PHB to give the players a good feeling of the wizards options. is this a horrible, horrible mistake?

Well, if the players are relatively inexperienced, it may be a bit daunting -- I would suggest keeping the spellbook full of quite a few options, but not enough to confuse the heck out of the player trying to pick their spells for the day.

tyckspoon
2010-01-12, 09:51 PM
So i'm running a level 10 group through the tomb of horrors this weekend (i'll be dropping in a few random encounters to give it a good mix of combat and puzzles), and pre-making several characters as most of my group is relatively green and will be working their way through them pretty quickly. When i got to the wizard i was contemplating just giving the character a spell book with all the Level 5 and lower spells from the PHB to give the players a good feeling of the wizards options. is this a horrible, horrible mistake?


Depends on the player. You may just induce choice-paralysis and leave him incapable of doing much of anything. Or he'll already have his mind made up as to what spells he wants to use and it won't make any real difference... which I think is likely. I suspect the only way it'll be much trouble is if he comes in here making a post along the lines of "hey, I'm going to be experiencing Tomb of Horror as a Wizard. I have all PHB spells- which ones should I be taking?"

And even then the Tomb is constructed to deliberately foil most of the standard PHB tricks for bypassing things, so it's unlikely to be too much of a problem.

deuxhero
2010-01-12, 09:53 PM
I'd include a Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) (and for more fun, make him a Goliath (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040711b&page=5) (consider the LA bought off given that you are level 10) with a large Spiked Chain that does bludgeon damage, call it ball and chain too heavy for a normal guy to use effectively, because it sounds cooler than the very silly spiked chain.)

Toliudar
2010-01-12, 09:56 PM
I would also recommend AGAINST giving the wizard too many options - the fewer spells he/she has to familiarize him/herself with, the smoother gameplay will be.

I'm assuming the list of PC's is to give the players lots to choose from. Given the nature of ToH, I'd suggest that the healer, sword and board fighter and the dread necromancer might feel a bit underwhelming in that company.

Signmaker
2010-01-12, 09:56 PM
I'd include a Horizon Tripper (and for more fun, make him a Goliath with a large Spiked Chain that does bludgeon damage, call it ball and chain too heavy for a normal guy to use effectively, because it sounds cooler than the very silly spiked chain.)

In a dungeon that primarily kills you with traps? I'm not entirely certain this is wise.

If your party is as green as you say, they're going to need all the help they can get. Making the wizard similar to the cleric in being able to cherrypick spells will help if they survive the first day, provided your wizard is a fast learner/isn't dead. The two tend to be synonymous, of course.

ShakeHandsMan
2010-01-12, 09:56 PM
I'd include a Horizon Tripper (and for more fun, make him a Goliath with a large Spiked Chain that does bludgeon damage, call it ball and chain too heavy for a normal guy to use effectively, because it sounds cooler than the very silly spiked chain.)

Tying to keep things core, i'll have 2 players new to 3.5 and 3 who have varying levels of experience. I think if dying is not that big of an obstacle the new guys should pick up on things pretty quickly.

deuxhero
2010-01-12, 09:58 PM
Horizon tripper is BUILT to be used in core only and Goliath is in a preview (updated with links)

ShakeHandsMan
2010-01-12, 09:58 PM
I would also recommend AGAINST giving the wizard too many options - the fewer spells he/she has to familiarize him/herself with, the smoother gameplay will be.

I'm assuming the list of PC's is to give the players lots to choose from. Given the nature of ToH, I'd suggest that the healer, sword and board fighter and the dread necromancer might feel a bit underwhelming in that company.

Like i said, i'll be dropping in some additional encounters, as i believe there are only like 5 actual combat scenarios in the whole dungeon.

Cute_Riolu
2010-01-12, 10:40 PM
Answer hazy, try again later.

...

Okay, the topic really sounds like something you'd ask a Magic 8-Ball. :P

Anyway, I'd say yes, yes you would. No one survives the Tomb of Horrors. Ever.

Signmaker
2010-01-12, 10:48 PM
Answer hazy, try again later.

...

Okay, the topic really sounds like something you'd ask a Magic 8-Ball. :P

Anyway, I'd say yes, yes you would. No one survives the Tomb of Horrors. Ever.

Oh, you'd be surprised. In truth, a more accurate statement is "Only the truly lucky survive ToH on their first try." And by truly I mean a negligible portion of the total DnD community, which is already not that large.

ShakeHandsMan
2010-01-12, 10:54 PM
Oh, you'd be surprised. In truth, a more accurate statement is "Only the truly lucky survive ToH on their first try." And by truly I mean a negligible portion of the total DnD community, which is already not that large.

This is why im offering to buy Chili's for anyone who makes it to the end with their starting PC :smallbiggrin:

awa
2010-01-12, 11:38 PM
make sure they don't get attached to their characters and know ahead of time that the tomb is arbitrary and cruel going into the tomb with the wrong mind set
will make it very hard for them to enjoy it.

Signmaker
2010-01-13, 12:06 AM
This is why im offering to buy Chili's for anyone who makes it to the end with their starting PC :smallbiggrin:

Offer a plaque and your eternal amazement.

Ormagoden
2010-01-13, 10:02 AM
inexperienced players +
lvl 10 pregenned characters +
TOH =
Single-handedly making 4-5 people interested in DnD
No longer interested in DnD.

dsmiles
2010-01-13, 10:09 AM
ToH is great for conventions...no one expect to live through it.

ToH is great for n00b players...give them the horror of death early, get it over with.

ToH is freat for...well...it's just great!

Roderick_BR
2010-01-13, 10:24 AM
Ok, if the group is unexperienced, I advice against the Tomb of Horrors. New players will fall easily in most of the traps, and they'll be pissed off by being killed by traps instead of getting into battles.

I also advice against letting they start at so high a level, because they can get the wrong impression about power levels. It's good to start low.

No, don't give all those spells. Select a bunch that you think may be useful in your stories, plus a handful of miscelaneous stuff.
And don't forget that spells learned (except the 2 each levels) are actually treasure found, so it need to be discounted from hiw WBL.