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valadil
2010-01-13, 11:27 AM
So I'm trying to start up a new game. As rewarding as it is, GMing is a truly exhausting process for me. It is made worse by players who don't respond to email, making scheduling games impossible. I wouldn't say I'm at wit's end yet, but I've certainly considered canning the whole game and not dealing with the stress of having to manage people.

I can understand why the GM is by default the one who manages things. But I don't like it. GMing already requires more work than playing does. To be blunt, I think it sucks that the person who is dealing with this also has to deal with the overhead of managing players.

I've read suggestions about division of labor. Designate one player to handle rides, another to bring munchies, etc. Has anyone tried this? Does it work? Does it fail horribly? Would you, as a PC, balk at a GM who asked you to schedule the next game?

tldr; I'm too lazy to both write game and arrange for players to show up to game at the same time. Is it reasonable to ask a player to manage scheduling, transportation etc for me?

Artanis
2010-01-13, 11:30 AM
If the players won't respond to people attempting to contact them, I don't think it'll matter that much who does the contacting.

DabblerWizard
2010-01-13, 11:44 AM
So I'm trying to start up a new game. As rewarding as it is, GMing is a truly exhausting process for me. It is made worse by players who don't respond to email, making scheduling games impossible. I wouldn't say I'm at wit's end yet, but I've certainly considered canning the whole game and not dealing with the stress of having to manage people.

I can understand why the GM is by default the one who manages things. But I don't like it. GMing already requires more work than playing does. To be blunt, I think it sucks that the person who is dealing with this also has to deal with the overhead of managing players.

I've read suggestions about division of labor. Designate one player to handle rides, another to bring munchies, etc. Has anyone tried this? Does it work? Does it fail horribly? Would you, as a PC, balk at a GM who asked you to schedule the next game?

tldr; I'm too lazy to both write game and arrange for players to show up to game at the same time. Is it reasonable to ask a player to manage scheduling, transportation etc for me?




If the players won't respond to people attempting to contact them, I don't think it'll matter that much who does the contacting.

^^ Artanis makes a good point.

On the other hand, valadil, even if your players weren't bad about responding to emails, it wouldn't be a bad idea to delegate these kinds of tasks out to your players: e.g. munchies, rides...

You don't want to end up so swamped that you're not longer able or willing to DM.

Another consideration. Are you also hosting the gaming session? I found it incredibly helpful when a player was able to host at their house instead of mine. That was one less thing I had to prepare for. If you are hosting, maybe you could ask a player to help you set up / clean up.

I personally think players should help out. They're not really doing anything difficult or time consuming, and in another sense, they're pitching in to make the gaming experience more enjoyable for everyone.

Unless your players are obnoxious, selfish, and lazy, you should hopefully find that at least a few of them are willing to help you out. And as I said, it's worth asking, and doing, because it sounds like you need the help, and frankly, you deserve the help, for your sake, and theirs.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-13, 12:01 PM
Division of labor can work. Likewise, round robin DMing can work.

But if nobody other than you is willing to put in any effort, you have a people problem. No system will fix the problem of players who don't really care about playing a game.

valadil
2010-01-13, 12:02 PM
Another consideration. Are you also hosting the gaming session? I found it incredibly helpful when a player was able to host at their house instead of mine. That was one less thing I had to prepare for. If you are hosting, maybe you could ask a player to help you set up / clean up.

I personally think players should help out. They're not really doing anything difficult or time consuming, and in another sense, they're pitching in to make the gaming experience more enjoyable for everyone.

Unless your players are obnoxious, selfish, and lazy, you should hopefully find that at least a few of them are willing to help you out. And as I said, it's worth asking, and doing, because it sounds like you need the help, and frankly, you deserve the help, for your sake, and theirs.

I do host the session. It's easier for me to have all my resources in one place than to have to move them. I like your suggestion of asking other players to help clean up though. I can deal with putting minis away, but having a stack of plates and cups to wash always sucks.

The players aren't selfish or obnoxious. Lazy maybe. But so am I, hence this problem. I *think* it'll be better once game is started and we have some momentum.

valadil
2010-01-13, 12:26 PM
Division of labor can work. Likewise, round robin DMing can work.

But if nobody other than you is willing to put in any effort, you have a people problem. No system will fix the problem of players who don't really care about playing a game.

True, true. That's what demotivates me. If they can't be bothered to reply to an email, why should I put effort into writing the damn game?

Kol Korran
2010-01-13, 12:39 PM
my play group has it quite backwards from you- the DM just needs to deal with the actual game material, and show up. as players we take care of rides, munchies, session summaries, help clean up, and one of us usually hosts at his place (but truth be said, that is because he has to help care of his twin babies, so that doesn't count)

the other forumists have allready talked about people not contributing, and then you're having a problem. that is true, but... i wouldn't gauge their willingness to help by their e-mail receptiveness. one of our players answers no email, and doesn't go on the group's site or does anything computer related, but he's quite ok other than that. as to scheduling with him- we just do it by phone. some people, for their odd reasons, don't work well with computers or have a thing about emails. i don't know why, it just is.

try to talk with your team mates about this, explains to them that you'd rather try to focus your time an enrgy on DMing. most people will be receptive. if not- ditch the bastards.

Kol.

dsmiles
2010-01-13, 12:43 PM
I can't help you, I've never used division of labor except to determine who brought which munchies.

Players 1&2: Drinks
Player 3: Chips and Dips
Player 4: Meat-like Substances
Player 5: Sweets
DM: Space to play and mind candy

Since I have always been in constant contact with my players (via work, school, whatever) contacting them has neve rbeen a problem.

arguskos
2010-01-13, 12:47 PM
...man, I feel like I'm doing the Ironman method of DMing. I organize everything, motivate everyone to do anything, and spend quite a bit of time getting the game ready. The only thing I don't do is host, which a friend does, since that's what his house is known for, though we're looking for somewhere else to play actually.

dsmiles
2010-01-13, 01:10 PM
...man, I feel like I'm doing the Ironman method of DMing. I organize everything, motivate everyone to do anything, and spend quite a bit of time getting the game ready. The only thing I don't do is host, which a friend does, since that's what his house is known for, though we're looking for somewhere else to play actually.

You are not alone, my friend. Also, I host...:smallsigh:
I just don't supply DM bribes snacks.

RandomNPC
2010-01-13, 05:59 PM
I host and usually DM, one gamer brings drinks, everyone else rotates bringing food. Even though my wife and I count as one person on the rotation, it's hectic, so we all have to deal with the stress.

Game is every other monday, as long as people only miss for good things (family, work, and school) they don't get punished with XP penalties or anything. But when someone kept skipping game to do some drugs then asked to come back I told him he owed us the two he skipped out on in the rotation, first he stopped coming on his turn, then when he came back he gamed twice and his bringing food came up again, he ditched that game too.

Seatbelt
2010-01-13, 06:03 PM
I have a sufficiently large enough group that my solution is this: Can't be bothered to respond to sheduling requests or show up regularly? You don't get to participate in the scheduling. This means you might not get to play. This is your problem. Not mine. :)

Dr Bwaa
2010-01-13, 06:16 PM
I have some friends with your group's problems (apparently morally opposed to checking email, based on the frequency with which they do so). We (my other friends and I) have enacted several solutions, at different times, to this problem, all of which now exist concurrently.

We have one (sandbox-ish) campaign with 4 people involved. The DM rotates between any of these at a time, depending on who is feeling like it/etc, so there are always 3 PCs (and clever ways of leaving people's characters behind for a session, etc)
We have a mailing list that goes only to the people who check their emails. Two, actually.
We created a separate game (two, actually) that include only the people who check their emails.
I and another of my friends go to school 1500 miles from the rest of my friendgroup. Some of them are okay with Skype-D&D, some are not. So, there is now an Interwebz campaign.
If we want to play a session with the people who are out-of-contact most of the time, advance preparation is needed at least a week prior, leaving time to get in touch with the out-of-touch (by phone/hate mail/carrier pigeon) and then organize something. This is a responsibility delegated to everyone, because if everyone wants to play that campaign, then it is in everyone's best interest to try to get in touch with the missing people.
Labor, in general, is divided between all present. Whoever is ostensibly "organizing" the event rallies up one person. Then, each of them rally another person, etc. When you come to the final (occasionally unralliable) person, if all else has failed, you have whoever is geographically closest to him/her at that moment go abduct her/him, and then you're good to go :smallbiggrin:

So my answer, anyway, is to do what works for your group. You know your gamers better than we do (probably...). Especially if it's just a few of them being difficult, try to coerceconvince some of the others to help you deal with whatever needs to be dealt with.

Dimers
2010-01-14, 10:23 PM
Like Lordhenry, I've been in groups where people didn't respond to email. Some folks do a lot better by phone. Have you considered a phone tree or a designated caller?

Ormur
2010-01-15, 01:49 AM
I'm a bit obsessive over having everything planned and timed so I usually call all my player to find a suitable time and then text them a confirmation. They're pretty reliable (after I compensate for lateness) so I'm probably overdoing it. I just accept that if it's me that wants things properly timed and planned I have to do the work of scheduling it. This doesn't just apply to D&D, but most social events that "have to" be planned: practices, trips and going to the movies. I've probably even taken things to the edge of courtesy by trying to schedule games I'm a player in.

It might be annoying but maybe if other people don't seem to make such a fuss over things not happening or being well planned you'll just have bear the burden or not have things happen when and how you like. Sometimes I've had to accept that if nothing happens without me doing something about it then it may be I'm the only one that wants it to happen.

I'm not saying that delegating doesn't work, just that if you have high standards you'll have to be the one that sees them fulfilled.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-15, 09:01 AM
My main group does round robin DMing now, so prep is entirely based on who's turn it is.

I bring the pizza, other people periodically bring ice cream and soda. The same person always hosts. One guy always brings a mat, erasable markers, and supplies for the forgetful members of the group.

Basically, everyone just sort of adopted a role, and sticks to it, but nothing about it is formal.

We do go through a ridiculous amount of munchies though. An average session will involve three pizzas, a dozen donuts, roughly three 12 packs of soda, a box of ice cream cones, and whatever other random stuff showed up. Im amazed none of us are obese.

bosssmiley
2010-01-15, 09:50 AM
If the players won't respond to people attempting to contact them, I don't think it'll matter that much who does the contacting.

This.

If the players can't even be bothered to turn up, then don't expect them to go the extra mile and actually help out with game prep/catering. That said, maybe dropping some responsibility in their laps will focus their attention...

valadil
2010-01-15, 10:19 AM
That said, maybe dropping some responsibility in their laps will focus their attention...

That's what I'm hoping for. Some people respond better when responsibility is their problem.

I also think communication is part of the issue. I like email because I can broadcast it. Maybe my players respond better to phone calls or IM, but then I have to make the time to deal with them individually.

Rhiannon87
2010-01-15, 11:29 AM
We always divide things up-- the DMs are responsible for prepping their campaign, one player manages scheduling, we plan out dinner on the e-mail chain and divide up ingredients (or agree that one person will buy and get paid bacK), etc etc. But this is, of course, all dependent upon people answering e-mail. We also start planning for game about a week in advance.

There are a few people in our group who don't check their e-mail that often, but we've nagged people about it enough that now nearly everyone replies to the e-mail at least once, even if it's just a "yeah, I'll be there/nope, can't make it".

taltamir
2010-01-15, 03:47 PM
I've read suggestions about division of labor. Designate one player to handle rides, another to bring munchies, etc. Has anyone tried this? Does it work? Does it fail horribly? Would you, as a PC, balk at a GM who asked you to schedule the next game?

I have never ever ever seen a group where it was the DM's job to organize rides and munchies...
the standard is one of those two:
1. "you bring your own food, if you don't bring anything, you don't eat"
2. the group organized who brings what munchies to be shared by all, in which case the DM is always excluded from having to pay / organize it.

2 is fairly rare, and doesn't seem to last long before people get sick of it. so its usually #1

BTW, that doesn't mean players can't organize things with each other... like giving someone who forgot to bring anything some food, or one of them bringing something specific to everyone (perhaps for money) every time, etc...
But as a DM you should only be concerned with your own food and ride.

And they aren't responding to emails? that is a big problem...

the issue here isn't that GMing is tough, its that your players think you owe them something and that they have no responsibilities at all.