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Androgeus
2010-01-13, 04:09 PM
I bet this has come up before, but you never know.
So I was just read the epic uses for Slight of hand and saw this

{table=head]DC|Task
80|
Make an adjacent, willing creature or object of the character’s size or smaller “disappear” while in plain view. In fact, the willing creature or object is displaced up to 10 feet away—make a separate Hide check to determine how well the “disappeared” creature or object is hidden.
[/table]


Move someone 10ft, obviously my next though was what action does a sleight of hand takes

Action
Any Sleight of Hand check normally is a standard action. However, you may perform a Sleight of Hand check as a free action by taking a -20 penalty on the check.

A DC100 then to move some one 10feet as a free action... wait moving something as a free action, why does that sound familiar

Using the Commoner Railgun strategum, sleight of handing a person instead of a rod, we can now transport people from one end of the line to the other.
Of corse this runs in to the big problem of getting every person in the monorail to have a +90 modifier in sleight of hand (I'm sure some here can make a build that hits that target easily.)

Edit:Me no speel the england

noiadodh
2010-01-13, 04:50 PM
whats the objective? just moving the guy or throwing him at a high speed?

sofawall
2010-01-13, 04:55 PM
whats the objective? just moving the guy or throwing him at a high speed?

Well, seeing as how you can do one but not the other, at least with Sleight of Hand, I hope he means the former.

Androgeus
2010-01-13, 05:03 PM
whats the objective? just moving the guy or throwing him at a high speed?

Moving the guy, throwing him is pointless as that's the part of the commoner railgun that doesn't work by RAW.

Akal Saris
2010-01-13, 05:10 PM
Monoraiiiiil!

Jimp
2010-01-13, 05:15 PM
As long as it's in Ogdenville and North Haverbrook I'm in.

Another_Poet
2010-01-13, 05:22 PM
I like that you found a cool, obscure rule but when you think of the cost of making a magic item to provide a +90 competence bonus to a skill (and the rarity of epid individuals who could do it without the item), this will not be a cost-effective method of transit.

Also wouldn't you need one person ever 10 feet? Presumably you can't sleight-of-hand someone if you can't reach them with your hand.

Human Paragon 3
2010-01-13, 05:38 PM
Here's a little hack for the monorail.

You need a tiny cohort, possibly an awakened sparrow or something that can sit on your shoulder. Have the sparrow make the dc100 check, moving you 10 feet. Since the sparrow is on your shoulder, he'll move with you. You can now repeat the process until you get where you were going.

Androgeus
2010-01-13, 05:38 PM
I like that you found a cool, obscure rule but when you think of the cost of making a magic item to provide a +90 competence bonus to a skill (and the rarity of epid individuals who could do it without the item), this will not be a cost-effective method of transit.

Also wouldn't you need one person ever 10 feet? Presumably you can't sleight-of-hand someone if you can't reach them with your hand.

Yhea, it's hardly the best transport method in the RAWverse (Fast mount/demount curb stomps this).


And yhea you do need each person in the line spaced 10ft feet apart at most for it to work:

Make an adjacent, willing creature


I was going to post this as Sleight of Hand Leapfrogging orginally, but I think takeing a free action stops you from delaying your action till after your partner.

Edit:

Here's a little hack for the monorail.

You need a tiny cohort, possibly an awakened sparrow or something that can sit on your shoulder. Have the sparrow make the dc100 check, moving you 10 feet. Since the sparrow is on your shoulder, he'll move with you. You can now repeat the process until you get where you were going.
You sir, just made this work. It brings a tear to my eye.

AmberVael
2010-01-13, 05:43 PM
Assuming you use an item instead of a familiar (because I think it could be argued that said familiar isn't moved with you), I feel like pointing out that you only need one item, because you can do the sleight of hand displacement as a free action. Just do two per turn- one to move the creature, and then one to move the item that gives the sleight of hand bonus, which then passes the bonus on to the next creature. So as long as you have one, you can line up a ton of people without paying for an item for each.

Dr Bwaa
2010-01-13, 05:46 PM
Here's a little hack for the monorail.

You need a tiny cohort, possibly an awakened sparrow or something that can sit on your shoulder. Have the sparrow make the dc100 check, moving you 10 feet. Since the sparrow is on your shoulder, he'll move with you. You can now repeat the process until you get where you were going.

Nice. An Item Familiar might be the optimal check-maker for this, though I'm not sure if you can move the adjacent creature and also yourself (though I guess if the Item Familiar is granting each of you the +100 bonus, and since familiars share your initiative (at least they do in my groups; that may just be a widespread houserule though and I'm too lazy to look it up), you could both slight-of-hand each other 10 feet away at the same time to get around that little problem)

--Color-coded for your convenience!

Tyndmyr
2010-01-13, 06:15 PM
Here's a little hack for the monorail.

You need a tiny cohort, possibly an awakened sparrow or something that can sit on your shoulder. Have the sparrow make the dc100 check, moving you 10 feet. Since the sparrow is on your shoulder, he'll move with you. You can now repeat the process until you get where you were going.

Of the character's size or smaller. So no, a tiny cohort will not work unless you are also tiny.

You could, however, play leapfrog with another fellow slight of hander, alternating who makes the check. Have fun with that.

Dr Bwaa
2010-01-13, 06:20 PM
Of the character's size or smaller. So no, a tiny cohort will not work unless you are also tiny.

You could, however, play leapfrog with another fellow slight of hander, alternating who makes the check. Have fun with that.

Hmm, I forgot about that part. So you need a Greataxe of +100 to Slight of Hand Item Familiar...

Or, yes, indeed. You and a friend, each with sufficient SoH (or one item to share between you) can take turns SoHing each other across yourselves (since you have to stay adjacent), and move as far as you want. Unless I'm mistaken, you could do this with one +100 SoH item and your whole party, actually (might have to move kind of awkward-diagonal-blob-ly, but hey, you can do so at arbitrarily high speeds, so who cares? :smalltongue:)

EDIT: Actually, moving a 4-person (or whatever) party this way is very easy. Stand in a square. Someone in front is holding the item, and moves the guy behind him to in front of him, the SoHs the item to the guy next to him, who does the same thing, then passes the item up to the front. Bam.

Thespianus
2010-01-13, 06:46 PM
This is fun.

It might also help with an earlier idea I had, of having 50 characters each fire one charge from the same wand in the same round. Basically ready an action to grab the wand and use it. It failed in my giantitp-forum thread since the rules were a bit unclear about if you could ready an action to grab the wand from your neighbor AND fire the wand as a readied action.

However, with this trick, you could reasonably(hah) grab the wand that your predecessor has moved with the SoH-trick as a free action, launch the Lesser Orb of Sound that was in the wand when you hold the wand, and SoH-move the wand to a spot where your next neighbor can grab it. Repeat.

I'm tired, so I might be missing something, though.

ericgrau
2010-01-13, 07:04 PM
rogue 10 / wizard 26
dex 20 + 12 (item) + 9 (levels) + 5 (tomes) = 46 = +18 modifier

dex 18
ranks 39
feats 15
items 2 (much more if custom items allowed)
skill mastery 10
persistant greater heroism 4 (is the wizard high enough level for this?)
= 92 88
Darn, 8 12 short. We may need a custom item or higher level character, unless I'm forgetting something. Also, your familiar has the same number of skill ranks as you. So you just need to get him some items and polymorph him into something with a good dex or into an ethereal filcher for +8 to sleight of hand and an 18 dex.

ocdscale
2010-01-13, 07:04 PM
Here's a little hack for the monorail.

You need a tiny cohort, possibly an awakened sparrow or something that can sit on your shoulder. Have the sparrow make the dc100 check, moving you 10 feet. Since the sparrow is on your shoulder, he'll move with you. You can now repeat the process until you get where you were going.

Are you 'adjacent' to the sparrow if it is sitting on your shoulder? How is adjacent defined (if it is at all..) in game?

Androgeus
2010-01-13, 07:49 PM
rogue 10 / wizard 26
dex 20 + 12 (item) + 9 (levels) + 5 (tomes) = 46 = +18 modifier

dex 18
ranks 39
feats 15
items 2 (much more if custom items allowed)
skill mastery 10
persistant greater heroism 4 (is the wizard high enough level for this?)
= 92
Darn, 8 short. We may need a custom item or higher level character, unless I'm forgetting something. Also, your familiar has the same number of skill ranks as you. So you just need to get him some items and polymorph him into something with a good dex or into an ethereal filcher for +8 to sleight of hand and an 18 dex.

unless goggle calculator is playing up don't your numbers come to 88?

Zaq
2010-01-13, 09:00 PM
rogue 10 / wizard 26
dex 20 + 12 (item) + 9 (levels) + 5 (tomes) = 46 = +18 modifier

dex 18
ranks 39
feats 15
items 2 (much more if custom items allowed)
skill mastery 10
persistant greater heroism 4 (is the wizard high enough level for this?)
= 92 88
Darn, 8 12 short. We may need a custom item or higher level character, unless I'm forgetting something. Also, your familiar has the same number of skill ranks as you. So you just need to get him some items and polymorph him into something with a good dex or into an ethereal filcher for +8 to sleight of hand and an 18 dex.

Any reason we have to stick with Rogue other than Skill Mastery? The Theft Gloves provide a +2 insight, +2 per essentia. A level 18 Incarnate can put 8 essentia into something with only moderate effort (4 from level, 2 from the Expanded Soulmeld Capacity class feature, 1 from the Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat, 1 from an Essentia Focus), so that's a +10 insight right there. We could then dip a level or two of Exemplar (actually, we can stop being an Incarnate after class level 15, when we get Expanded Soulmeld Capacity +2) to get Skill Mastery and Skill Artistry (giving another +4 competence if we don't already have it). In fact, it says that you can take Skill Artistry on something in which you don't have the requisite ranks, and it just lies dormant until you get the ranks, so we then just use all our skill points from being an Exemplar and boost Sleight of Hand for a level or two until we're at max. A Rogue could get Savvy Rogue, true, but while taking 12 is nice, I like having a +10 insight bonus. Sure, an artificer could do it better and faster, but they're T1 for a reason. A level in Marshal would add our Charisma, if we care.

Also, where are you getting +15 from feats?

unre9istered
2010-01-13, 10:12 PM
You guys all missed the obvious. Two people able to make a DC100 Slight of Hand checks can travel any distance instantly. They simply leapfrog eachother.

Dr Bwaa
2010-01-14, 11:18 AM
You guys all missed the obvious. Two people able to make a DC100 Slight of Hand checks can travel any distance instantly. They simply leapfrog eachother.

No, it seems that that was you :smallwink: It works for any number of people, not just two.

Eloel
2010-01-14, 11:22 AM
No, it seems that that was you :smallwink: It works for any number of people, not just two.

It doesn't work actually, you can't alternate your turns, you each have 1/turn.

Dr Bwaa
2010-01-14, 11:25 AM
It doesn't work actually, you can't alternate your turns, you each have 1/turn.

That's right, you need to have a familiar that can do it as well (so he shares your initiative). But so long as you have a large enough familiar, there's no reason you and it can't move your whole party (besides the obvious ludacrisness of the whole thing, of course).

Zom B
2010-01-14, 11:48 AM
A character with a +19 bonus to Ride can make a DC20 check without rolling in order to mount/dismount as a free action. So if you have some sort of horses or horse-like composites (a wooden sawhorse would probably work) spaced 5' apart, you could mount one from its left side as a free action, dismount on its right side as a free action, mount the next one as a free action, dismount it, and so on and so on.

That might make an easier monorail. You could even enchant the first sawhorse so that whoever touches it receives a +20 bonus to Ride checks for one round. That would be, by my estimate, not very expensive. 2000 gp to grant +20, and then some ad hoc adjustments for it not being an item you have to have in your possession, with a deduction for the bonus only lasting one round.

OracleofWuffing
2010-01-14, 12:12 PM
But main street's still all cracked and broken... :smallfrown:

Thespianus
2010-01-14, 12:13 PM
You guys all missed the obvious. Two people able to make a DC100 Slight of Hand checks can travel any distance instantly. They simply leapfrog eachother.
No. You can only do free actions on your initiative count, right?

So once you've performed the free action SoH, your turn passes. Or am I missing something?

EDIT: Ah, I see it. A familiar of impressive size. ;)

Zom B
2010-01-14, 12:19 PM
So once you've performed the free action SoH, your turn passes. Or am I missing something?

Why would performing a free action end your turn? You can do 426 free actions, move, 36,438 more free actions, take a standard action, do 12 more free actions, then an immediate action, and end with another 9,632 free actions.

ericgrau
2010-01-14, 01:03 PM
Also, where are you getting +15 from feats?

Epic skill focus gives +10. Not epic? Then you get +5 from feats. Your dex is probably lower too.

And yeah posting a very basic build that didn't quite do it was practically an invitation to bring in other classes and items. Care to post a build and add up your modifier?

Thespianus
2010-01-14, 01:31 PM
Why would performing a free action end your turn? You can do 426 free actions, move, 36,438 more free actions, take a standard action, do 12 more free actions, then an immediate action, and end with another 9,632 free actions.
I meant that once you've done your free action and your buddy starts to perform his free action, your turn has ended. My bad.