View Full Version : Discipline Focus and Weapon Aptitude (3.5)

2010-01-13, 08:37 PM
A first level Swordsage, from Tome of Battle, gets the Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus) ability, which grants them the Weapon Focus feat when using the favored weapons of a discipline of their choice.

A Warblade, from the same book, gets Weapon Aptitude, which grants them the ability to switch weapon-specific feats (Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, etc.) from one weapon to another, provided they spend time practicing with it.

So, my question is: can someone who's dipped in both classes and gained both abilities use Weapon Aptitude to switch, say, Weapon Focus (Shadow Hand) to Weapon Focus (longsword)? And can it be switched back to Shadow Hand, or even Weapon Focus (another discipline)?

2010-01-13, 08:40 PM
Does swordsage actually grant the weapon focus feats, or simply simulate their effect? If it is the latter, then probably no.

2010-01-13, 08:45 PM
Looks like the wording is "...you gain the benefit of the Weapon Focus feats for that discipline's associated weapons..." - so it sounds sort of like an "untyped" feat.

Okay, thanks.

2010-01-13, 08:48 PM
As it says you get the benfit of weapon focus for your discipline weapons, you do not actually have the weapon focus feat, ergo you can't redesignate the weaponsfor a feat you don't actually have... Unless you count being able to use weapon appitude on weapon focus a bonus of weapon focus nahhh

2010-01-13, 08:56 PM
You don't get the feats themselves, just the benefits of the feats. Presumably this means somewhat more than just +1 to attack rolls with the associated weapons, or they would have just said that, so it's probably reasonable for it to count for things that have Weapon Focus as a pre-requisite and to allow Weapon Aptitude to work with it. However, that's not spelled out, and since Weapon Aptitude specifically says that you can change "feats", which Discipline Focus does not give, by RAW you probably cannot. Talk to your DM, though, it really does not seem unreasonable.

I actually suspect that the real reason for this was to avoid Dark Chaos Shuffle shenanigans. Which displays an incredible level of awareness for WotC.

2010-01-13, 09:00 PM
Is one of the benefits of Weapon Focus not to be able to change it with Aptitude?

2010-01-13, 09:03 PM
No, but since the Discipline Focus ability says that it gives you "the benefits of the Weapon Focus feat" (rather than giving you "the Weapon Focus feat"), and Weapon Aptitude says that you gain the ability to "change the designated weapon for any feat you have that applies to only a single weapon (like Weapon Focus)", the two don't work together. If Discipline Focus actually gave you the feats, then Weapon Aptitude would work. If Weapon Aptitude worked on class features as well as feats, then it would work. But as is written, you can't use the two in tandem.