CR for a ghost forest

[Benejeseret]

Idea I just saw tweaked this query.

Awakened trees (cut down) that have returned as ghosts.

Awakened gives the charisma needed and stats like an animated object of given size.

Thus a normal large tree might be CR5 (3+2 ghost LA) and perhaps a bit above 5 if will saves and such greatly improved via awakened.

BUT, how would one stat such an encounter if I don't actually want the trees to move (at all)? The ballpark I was guessing was 1 CR lower so about CR4 and have the ghost trees only use telekenesis and fear moans etc. Maybe even only CR3 based on play style depicted below.

Creepy dark forest, and the PC keep getting assaulted by poltergiest-like telekenetic attacks. The only real threat is getting telekenetic bull rushed into the space of another ghost tree - which then tries to possess. Again, possessed does not turn on party, just basically paralysis (for 12 hours) acting like a tree. They never use touch attacks or move in any way.

Only way through is to a) destroy all polter-trees or b) just run past enduring raining rocks and telekenetic affects. But if they run past they might run into the ghost Treant mini-boss while polter-trees are still around to harrass.

CR per polter-tree?

[deuxhero]

I HATE those woods.


Like all CR, it depends on the party.

[Zaq]

I HATE those woods.

My thoughts exactly.

Anyway, yeah, when you're homebrewing (or semi-homebrewing, as you are here), it's better to assign CR after the fact, after you can see how much it actually challenged (or COULD have actually challenged) the party. Unless there's a Truenamer around, but there shouldn't be. Really, there shouldn't be.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'd call it a minimum of CR 6 per ghost-tree. But like zaq said, unless there's a truenamer in the party it really shouldn't come up at all. Also bear in mind that removing movement from a telekinetic creature doesn't really slow it down much, especially when it's surrounded by a hundred of its friends. This sounds extremely deadly TBH.

[Crow]

If you've ever been in dense forest, you will know what I mean;

There is no reason the ghost trees have to rely only on telekinetic attacks. In dense forest, the branches of clumped smaller trees are hard enough to avoid as it is, and larger trees often have offshoots which can make passage difficult.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I actually used to live in a dense forest. I know exactly what you mean. What I was trying to say though, is that even if it was a sparse forest and only every third tree was a ghost, telekinesis can still make movement much less important. When you can reach out and touch somebody at 880 ft, your ability to close the distance is largely irrelevant.

[Ernir]

Hehe. No idea on CR (I second the chorus, though, you can hand out XP posthumously post-battle), but you may consider the idea stolen. :smalltongue:

[Everyman]

Like everyone else, I'd plan that on a CR of around 4-5 when building your encounter, but adjust it to whatever feels right after you finish a session with them.

Question though: How does a person possessed by a tree act?
Besides acting wooden, of course.

[Reaper_Monkey]

No idea what the CR is, but Yoink! all the same. This would work perfectly in one area of my world as an additional defensive barrier.

I'd consider this an environmental challenge all the same (like sheer cliffs and lakes of lava), it's very easy to work around or avoid, but very deadly if addressed incorrectly. I'd say rate the entire forest as a CR 6 or 7 depending on size and reward the players regardless of how they deal with it (short of simply avoiding it altogether), even if they choose to attack each ghost tree to cut a safe passage through the forest, after a while you just don't learn anything from that so should be rewarded XP for each tree. Hope that helps a little, and thanks for the idea. :smallsmile:

[Vizzerdrix]

Oooh! What sorts of animals would live in a ghost tree forest? Zombie dryads and Skiurids I'd imagine.

[Optimystik]

Question though: How does a person possessed by a tree act?
Besides acting wooden, of course.

I would imagine his bark would be worse than his bite; unless everyone leaves him alone, that is.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

"Tha' trees be attackin'! RUN FER YER LIVES!!!"

[Calmar]

This idea sounds very interesting to me, but it could easily get boring on the game table, if the entire forest consits of ghost-trees. You'd either start hacking/burning dopwn the entire area, or simply avoid it. Let them guard a small area where they only attack when the PCs are already deep between their ranks. :smallsmile:

[Benejeseret]

As to how they get in (why in) the forest I was thinking this:

They stop to setup camp in a logged field. There are a few stumps still around but otherwise just a large field. But it is clear and they can see for a ways in every direction so it seems pretty safe. Once midnight hits they suddenly find they are in the center of a ghost forest where the mere field once was.

Telekenesis ability of ghost is only every 1d4 rounds, so if I take away all movement (ie. touch attacks) then that means each polter-tree is only taking ANY ACTION every 2.5 rounds average. And if I assume minimum Cha to become a ghost then the to-hit from telekenesis is pretty low (although they can throw 12 rocks each for 1d6)

Hence the dropping of CR to suite. But you're right, I should just play it and assign afterward based on how they did.

And I'm thinking that a possessed-by-a-tree person just growths ethereal roots and sprouts out their nose and ears and stand there swaying in the breeze. So it ends up being more of a paralysis then a possession, bad, but not as bad as a party member turning on the party.

[Calmar]

How can the trees be put to rest?

[Jack_Simth]

How can the trees be put to rest?
Oh....

Replant, bring the loggers to "justice", burn down whatever was made out of the wood, some combination of the above.

[Eldariel]

Oh....

Replant, bring the loggers to "justice", burn down whatever was made out of the wood, some combination of the above.

I think there would be some very Old Forestish repercussions for any such attempts here...

[Jack_Simth]

I think there would be some very Old Forestish repercussions for any such attempts here...

I didn't say it'd be easy, now did I?

But to put a ghost - any ghost - to rest, you need to get one of:

1) Kill it (repeatedly) until it fails it's Rejuvenation check.
2) Deal with the reason for it's unrest.
3) Have a a Hunter of the Dead (that's hit the capstone) kill the thing.
4) Kill the thing in an AMF (Rejuvination is Su)
5) Do something that takes it out of circulation forever without killing it (Trap the Soul, Imprisonment, or similar)

2 requires that the forest have enough of a history in the DM's mind that there's a reason that can be dealt with. Which leads back to "why is the forest restless" - and the three basic resolutions I listed could potentially cover that (restore the natural cycle, revenge, remove the indignity of the corpses being in "circulation" so to speak)

[Kelb_Panthera]

even with each tree only acting via telekinesis every 2.5 rounds if you have 10 trees present the odds that none would be able to act on any given round gets small enough to be negligible. Applying the mob template from DMG2 Might get some interesting results, and avoid the party's cleric simply turn-dusting them.

[Benejeseret]

Not a huge fan of the mob template for my particular scenario.

Party does not have a full cleric so I am less worried about Turning. What I want is for this encounter to a place where their decisions have consequences.

1) Throw in some confusion and suspense when they are getting pelted by stones and disarmed, pushed around but NOTHING is moving or looking like a threat at all. They might not even consider attacking the trees for a few rounds of searching for the invisible monster. Maybe they try to dispel illusions (cause maybe the trees are illusions) all under mild duress.

2) Assuming they are not specifically prepared for ghosts (they are not), temporarily destroying them should be relatively easy. But, it will take a lot of time and resources.

3) The longer they take, the more they are drained when the ghost Treant or Druid senses them and drifts into play. Or, if they choose to simply run past/away they risk running into Treant/Druid while trees are still harassing.

Hmmm, maybe the treant should be a zombie instead.

4) As for permanently putting them to rest. I am aiming for them to have to locate and overcome the ghost druid, starting a scene where after they beat the rage out of it the spirit gains some control and will tell them of how it came to this disturbed fate.

The forest has cut down to build wooden golems to protect the nearby city. Wizard used the forest spirits to power the golems, thus binding part of them to the mortal plane. Spirits beg for release.

Choice: So long as the town has the golems they will be plagued by the ghosts and their forest will wither. Isolationists in town think it's great and the ghosts an extra layer of defense, but merchants want ghosts gone so trade and crops do not suffer.

Either they need to convince/force/fight city into destroying the golems or they need to find an alternative energy source for the magic of the golems, or simply quiet the merchants and let the situation stand.


EDIT: general concept blatantly stolen from Dragon Age, where who they support ends up permanently changing the feel of the region and ultimately who will support them later. (ie. Golems, or otherwise the ranger/hunters of the forests.)

[Kelb_Panthera]

well if your ghost trees will be pulling their punches, then by all means go for it. Just remember that if they're not really hurting the PC's you'll want to adjust the CR down a little, after all HP's are resources too :smalltongue:

[Drogorn]

4) Kill the thing in an AMF (Rejuvination is Su)
It isn't possible to destroy ghosts in an antimagic field: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm

Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away.