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leon666
2010-01-14, 07:54 PM
Good evening OotS'ers :smallconfused:

Tonight my PC died, i was playing a 4th level gnome wizard and after my plan failed (we won't go into that if not necessary) i was grappled by a kobold and dragged into the cave. after the rest of the party catches up, the kobold declares that they surrender or i'm killed... You can guess their decision.

So next week i'll need a new char, i was the only arcane spellcaster so another seems to be the best plan. preferably wizard and some advice on playing a wizard, seeing as i don't seem to be doing too well on my own. Nobody except the DM is much of an optimiser, although he tends not to go too far in the interests of fun.

I'll be level 4 again, 4d6 drop lowest, only books that we have i can give a list at a later date. We definitely have complete mage though.

EDIT: 3.5 if that wasn't obvious

Assassin89
2010-01-14, 08:16 PM
Good evening OotS'ers :smallconfused:

Tonight my PC died, i was playing a 4th level gnome wizard and after my plan failed (we won't go into that if not necessary) i was grappled by a kobold and dragged into the cave. after the rest of the party catches up, the kobold declares that they surrender or i'm killed... You can guess their decision.

So next week i'll need a new char, i was the only arcane spellcaster so another seems to be the best plan. preferably wizard and some advice on playing a wizard, seeing as i don't seem to be doing too well on my own. Nobody except the DM is much of an optimiser, although he tends not to go too far in the interests of fun.

I'll be level 4 again, 4d6 drop lowest, only books that we have i can give a list at a later date. We definitely have complete mage though.

EDIT: 3.5 if that wasn't obvious

Basic advice for a wizard, stay out of physical combat until you can cast polymorph.

The more complicated advice depends on what school you want your wizard to specialize in. The most often barred schools are evocation, necromancy and enchantment.

leon666
2010-01-14, 08:29 PM
Well i was focused in illusion, but with my lack of imagination it didn't go too well, however i'd like to stick with it.

Avoid melee combat you say? I suppose if i'd follwed that advice i'd still be alive and wouldn't need this post... Oh well I'll learn from that mistake :smalltongue:

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-14, 08:35 PM
Well, if you are just starting out playing with Arcane casters, you may want to consider Sorcerer as an easier alternative. No bookkeeping involved. Pick your spells (with advice from us here), and run with it.

Another alternative is Warlock, which is fun because they have unlimited uses of their magical abilities, but not as flexible as either Wiz or Sorc.

leon666
2010-01-14, 08:54 PM
I'd like to keep to wizard, even if the bookkeeping is a chore. Sorceror's are always fun to play though I've played them before though and enjoy trying new things... Not to say i haven't ruled out the switch after tonights events.

I Guess 5 greases a day can't be a bad thing though.

DementedFellow
2010-01-14, 08:58 PM
With 4d6 and drop the lowest, you're going to have some good scores. Hope that you roll well and make a Truenamer.

Hear me out. At that level, they will still have the ability to drop utterances on their victims. You will have some WBL available for you to at least buy a masterwork item of Truespeak. And the utterances you could choose would help you make somewhat helpful member of the group. You could even help the dying characters with a Word of Nurturing.

Also you will not have to worry near as much about Arcane Spell Failure or being silenced. Done right and you will have a valuable member of the group. Truenamers can also absorb a little more damage and can wear some good armor.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-14, 09:03 PM
I'd like to keep to wizard, even if the bookkeeping is a chore. Sorceror's are always fun to play though I've played them before though and enjoy trying new things... Not to say i haven't ruled out the switch after tonights events.

I Guess 5 greases a day can't be a bad thing though.

Mmmkay, here's some options for a Wizard:

Conjurer. Specially awesome, since it's such a flexable school. Orb of X spells will be your bread and butter damage dealers, and has some very nice shut-down spells. Ban evocation and Enchantment.

Diviner. Sure, it has limited spell selection worth bothering with, but hey... you only have to give up Evocation to do it

Transmuter. Again with Evocation and Enchantment as banned. Also has some very tasty choices in here.

Master Specialist. Do this soonest, because it helps you get places faster, and you loose almost nothing for doing it.

Evard
2010-01-14, 09:21 PM
4 levels of Divination Wizard (go with dwarf! or human :P)
Stats: Int, Str, Con
1 level of fighter
Everything else Eldritch Knight (+1 BAB each level and +1 spell casting level)

One of your feats take Bastard sword or some other heavy hitting weapon
Prepare (most) of your spells to be stuff like True Strike (+20 next d20 roll) Black Tentacles, Rage, and some str buffs. You could go heavy armor and pick up some spells that don't have arcane spell failures or just go with alot of true strike. Yes you will be 2 levels lower of a wizard and yes a barbarian may do more damage but the chances that you will miss will be slim (average roll is somewhere around 10 so you will be getting around 30 against AC ) with the ability to pull off some spells you will be useful all over. This will keep pesky kobolds from being able to push you around as much :p

Of course there is also warmage which i like but i don't think they get true strike.

leon666
2010-01-14, 09:31 PM
Ok, I've checked out Master specialist (Can't believe i didn't spot this already) thinking of going the conjuration route with some illusions thrown in for good measure.

However now i'm unsure of feat and race selection, I think another gnome is in order though.

AshDesert
2010-01-14, 09:31 PM
One of your feats take Bastard sword or some other heavy hitting weapon

No need to waste a feat on getting a Bastard Sword, shields generally aren't very good, and two-handed weapons are better than one-handers. Also, if you're going to use True Strike, you should also be using Power Attack, and two-handers can get mighty scary with you giving up 15 points for a Power Attack.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-14, 09:35 PM
Ok, I've checked out Master specialist (Can't believe i didn't spot this already) thinking of going the conjuration route with some illusions thrown in for good measure.

However now i'm unsure of feat and race selection, I think another gnome is in order though.

Strongheart Halfling is always a good choice. Replaces the +1 to saves with a bonus feat. Small size gives a +1 on attacks and to AC. It's like a Human, only better.

Another option, by the way, if you have access to the PhB II, is to trade in your familiar for being able to teleport. It's crackin' good for a Conjurer. Unless you're going to go with Imp UMD or Imbue Famliar with SLA cheese, it's more of a detriment than a benefit anyways.


4 levels of Divination Wizard (go with dwarf! or human :P)
Stats: Int, Str, Con
1 level of fighter
Everything else Eldritch Knight (+1 BAB each level and +1 spell casting level)
<suggestions for a Gish>

Of course there is also warmage which i like but i don't think they get true strike.

That's a Gish, not a primary caster, and a poorly designed one at that. Try again, only this time without lost caster levels.

leon666
2010-01-14, 10:10 PM
Ok Strongheart halfling it is if my DM approves it as we don't have the book. Any particular reccomendations for Spending my WBL of 5400gp? :smalltongue:
seeing as we're using 4d6 drop lowest i don't think the traditional headband of intellect is really needed.

JerichoPenumbra
2010-01-14, 11:34 PM
Int boosters are always useful. Arcane Manipulation (Lost Empires of Faerun) can be a useful feat. Lets you turn 3 spells a day into spell levels that you can divide to prepare bonus spells whose total levels are equal the level of the spell changed (Ex. you could turn a lvl 2 slot into 2 lvl 1 slots).

Abrupt Jaunt can be incredibly useful. Teleport out grapple as an immediate action. Small price to pay for losing you familiar.:smallamused: Or take impromptu metamagic instead, and sculpt spell. 4 times a day turn a grease spell into fireball radius or quadruple its original area.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-15, 12:10 AM
Ok Strongheart halfling it is if my DM approves it as we don't have the book. Any particular reccomendations for Spending my WBL of 5400gp? :smalltongue:
seeing as we're using 4d6 drop lowest i don't think the traditional headband of intellect is really needed.

A Headband of Intellect is always needed. For increasing DC's if nothing else.

A Ring of Sustenance means only having to sleep 2 hours a day for 2.5k...

Anonymouswizard
2010-01-15, 12:16 PM
A Headband of Intellect is always needed. For increasing DC's if nothing else.

A Ring of Sustenance means only having to sleep 2 hours a day for 2.5k...

So you can read finding plot holes for dummies in the other 6. You still need 8 hours of rest, even if only 2 are required for adventuring.

Another_Poet
2010-01-15, 01:58 PM
Of course remember to take Spell Focus and greater Spell Focus for feats. Put your highest stat in Int no matter what. Put your 4th level stat bump in Int if Int is an odd number. Get an Int-boosting item as others have said.

And consider a race that has a +2 Int boost. :smallbiggrin:

leon666
2010-01-15, 05:19 PM
Of course remember to take Spell Focus and greater Spell Focus for feats. Put your highest stat in Int no matter what. Put your 4th level stat bump in Int if Int is an odd number. Get an Int-boosting item as others have said.

And consider a race that has a +2 Int boost. :smallbiggrin:

Any chance of a list of races that have a +2 Int boost? Or at least a coupla suggestions, though i fear i'll be stepping into LA+1 territory.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-15, 05:29 PM
Any chance of a list of races that have a +2 Int boost? Or at least a coupla suggestions, though i fear i'll be stepping into LA+1 territory.

You could try a Grey Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#grayElf)...

leon666
2010-01-15, 05:33 PM
Sadly i forgot to mention, the campaign setting means we see very few elves in our neck of the woods (sorry for that couldn't help it) and are therefore non-playable without "A Really good reason"

EDIT:I can't spell.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-15, 05:39 PM
Sadly i forgot to mention, the campaign setting means we see very few elves in our neck of the woods (sorry for that couldn't help it) and are therefore non-playable without "A Really good reason"

EDIT:I can't spell.

Teifling is LA+1 and has some nifty bonuses...

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-15, 06:04 PM
@ Schneeky

How is it possible to do that? Bar taking 8 levels of Wizard before PrCing, I can't find a class with full spellcasting progression with higher BAB than the wizard, and BAB is the main condition to fulfil for these classes.

Relatively easy to do it with only 1 lost level...Eldritch Knight is qualifiable for with feats iirc, and quite early on, but that loses a CL at L1.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-15, 06:11 PM
@ Schneeky

How is it possible to do that? Bar taking 8 levels of Wizard before PrCing, I can't find a class with full spellcasting progression with higher BAB than the wizard, and BAB is the main condition to fulfil for these classes.

Relatively easy to do it with only 1 lost level...Eldritch Knight is qualifiable for with feats iirc, and quite early on, but that loses a CL at L1.

Why bother in the first place with BAB? He's wanting a primary spellcaster, not a Gish. He doesn't need BAB any more than a Fighter needs metamagic feats. Two levels that do not promote spellcasting hurt him *far* more than any 'toughness' the Gish build might bring to the table.

With Alter Self, he can turn into a Troglodyte and get an insane Natural Armor bonus to AC. Or turn into something with wings and fly. Or any number of options. With Mirror Image, he can effectively prevent from being tied up in melee combat until his opponent is tied down by the other party members.

Quite bluntly: He asks for a Primary Spellcaster, and you offer him a gish. that's like asking for a Pickup Truck and being offered a Geo Metro. It's great gas milage, sure, but it doesn't have the cargo capacity needed for the situation.

And as for a more effective Gish build?

Fighter/Wiz/Spellsword1/AbChamp5/full spellcasting PrC

Only looses *ONE* level, can auto-quicken any Abjuration spell of 3rd level or under (Dispel Magic and Shield both come to mind), have a +5 AC bonus on that Shield spell, which can be auto-quickened, and can cast in Mithral Chain Shirt without ACF.

In fact, with Bloodline/Legacy cheese, you can actually end up with a +20 AC from your Shield spell, and auto-quicken Greater Dispel Magic

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-15, 06:36 PM
Oh I wasn't arguing with that, I was just intrigued, as I've been looking for a way to get full casting and still get to a good amount of BAB, since AFAIK it's nigh-impossible.

EDIT: Wiz4 (Versatile Spellcaster)/Ruathar3/Spellsword1/AbjChamp5. :smallbiggrin:

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-15, 07:35 PM
Oh I wasn't arguing with that, I was just intrigued, as I've been looking for a way to get full casting and still get to a good amount of BAB, since AFAIK it's nigh-impossible.

EDIT: Wiz4 (Versatile Spellcaster)/Ruathar3/Spellsword1/AbjChamp5. :smallbiggrin:

I tend to avoid Ruathar, but that works too. much better than Eldritch Knight, anyways.

Starbuck_II
2010-01-15, 07:40 PM
Good evening OotS'ers :smallconfused:

Tonight my PC died, i was playing a 4th level gnome wizard and after my plan failed (we won't go into that if not necessary) i was grappled by a kobold and dragged into the cave. after the rest of the party catches up, the kobold declares that they surrender or i'm killed... You can guess their decision.

So next week i'll need a new char, i was the only arcane spellcaster so another seems to be the best plan. preferably wizard and some advice on playing a wizard, seeing as i don't seem to be doing too well on my own. Nobody except the DM is much of an optimiser, although he tends not to go too far in the interests of fun.

I'll be level 4 again, 4d6 drop lowest, only books that we have i can give a list at a later date. We definitely have complete mage though.

EDIT: 3.5 if that wasn't obvious

Say learn from your mistake: Be a Grapple Wizard!
Octopus Familiar grants +3 Grapple. There are tons of grapple spells.

You can make a wizard who is safe in grapple.

DementedFellow
2010-01-15, 08:10 PM
Say learn from your mistake: Be a Grapple Wizard!
Octopus Familiar grants +3 Grapple. There are tons of grapple spells.

You can make a wizard who is safe in grapple.

LOL. I can only think of a couple grapple spells. Can you name some? This might be fun to make.

Eldariel
2010-01-16, 02:15 AM
I can link you:
http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=13119

FrankTrollman decided to prove that Monk Grapplers suck by making a Wizard grapple better.

Mongoose87
2010-01-16, 02:35 AM
Here's a different approach:

1. Convince your DM that Rainbow Servant is a 10/10 CL PRC.
2. Play a Warmage/Rainbow Servant
3. Enjoy access to Cleric spells

leon666
2010-01-16, 02:49 PM
seeing as we're using 4d6 drop lowest i don't think the traditional headband of intellect is really needed.

15, 15, 12, 12, 10, 10...
Why do i tempt the dice gods by saying these things? Strongheart halfling has been approved by my DM, also i now know we also have complete arcane.

i'm thinking Wizard3/Master specialist1
Str, 14
Dex, 10
Con, 17
Int, 18 (4th level att + headband of intellect)
Wis, 8
Cha, 10
(Racial modifiers taken into account)

Feats:Spell focus (conjuration), Greater spell focus (duh!), Skill focus (spellcraft) and ???

And i have no idea on my spellbook yet.

Thoughts and criticisms welcome.

Another_Poet
2010-01-19, 12:51 PM
Why a higher Str than Dex? Dex is good for ray spells as well as AC, very important fior a wizard. Whereas Str is only good for encumbrance (if strictly enforced) and melee (you shouldn't be doing melee).

I'd put a 12 in Dex and a 10 in Str. better yet, put a 12 in Con (plus your con boost should put you in decent hp territory) and move the other 15 to Dex.