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View Full Version : Do inhaled poision have to be inhaled?



Talbot
2010-01-14, 10:20 PM
Or do they also work if they're, say, ingested or put into an open wound.

Basically, I want to know if I can coat my weapons/otherwise use Greensickness, or if I'm limited to just spraying it from misters.

RebelRogue
2010-01-14, 10:27 PM
Inhaled poisons are usually contained in fragile vials or eggshells. They can be thrown as a ranged attack with a range increment of 10 feet. When it strikes a hard surface (or is struck hard), the container releases its poison. One dose spreads to fill the volume of a 10-foot cube. Each creature within the area must make a saving throw. (Holding one’s breath is ineffective against inhaled poisons; they affect the nasal membranes, tear ducts, and other parts of the body.)
The bolded part seems to imply that this could work. At least if the application is deliberately made to these body parts.

taltamir
2010-01-14, 10:29 PM
it should be noted, that while inhaled poisons affect you normally if you "hold your breath" because they enter via the eyes, nose etc (gamist solution), if you have an item that produces air (necklace of adaption) or the air domain, you are immune to such poisons...

as for making it enter via a wound, i don't think there are rules for it.

Drakevarg
2010-01-14, 10:33 PM
IMO, "inhaled" basically means "in aerosol form" so if you managed to form a liquid or paste version (assuming it'd still be potent) you could pretty easily use it as a weapon poison.

snoopy13a
2010-01-14, 10:33 PM
Or do they also work if they're, say, ingested or put into an open wound.

Basically, I want to know if I can coat my weapons/otherwise use Greensickness, or if I'm limited to just spraying it from misters.

Ingested should be DM's discretion. Drugs are not as potent ingested than inhaled as they have to go through the stomach.

Putting it into an open wound should normally make the poison as effective as possible at it is going straight into the bloodstream.

taltamir
2010-01-14, 10:38 PM
Ingested should be DM's discretion. Drugs are not as potent ingested than inhaled as they have to go through the stomach.

Putting it into an open wound should normally make the poison as effective as possible at it is going straight into the bloodstream.

that is questionable. Blood typically flows out of a wound, not into. A snake creates a tiny hole and injects venom (you should watch snake milking, venom just shoots out from their fangs; pretty cool) into you, it doesn't spray it on an open wound.

And lungs particularly have a massive surface area designed to maximize the transfer of materials into and out of the blood.

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/P/Pulmonary.html

These provide a surface area of some 160 m2 (almost equal to the singles area of a tennis court and 80 times the area of our skin!).

snoopy13a
2010-01-14, 10:43 PM
that is questionable. Blood typically flows out of a wound, not into. A snake creates a tiny hole and injects venom (you should watch snake milking, venom just shoots out from their fangs; pretty cool) into you, it doesn't spray it on an open wound.

And lungs particularly have a massive surface area designed to maximize the transfer of materials into and out of the blood.

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/P/Pulmonary.html

Well yes, if the poison cannot enter because blood is flowing out then it isn't as effective.

And yes, the lungs operate like that but it is more efficient to directly insert the poison into the blood than it is to inhale it. IVs are more potent than inhalation/smoking which are much more potent than ingestion.

taltamir
2010-01-14, 10:47 PM
Well yes, if the poison cannot enter because blood is flowing out then it isn't as effective.

And yes, the lungs operate like that but it is more efficient to directly insert the poison into the blood than it is to inhale it. IVs are more potent than inhalation/smoking which are much more potent than ingestion.

IVs require you to insert a needle into a major artery which you must first locate (it requires training). A random cut is not gonna have the same effect, a random injection is not going to have the same effect.

Lung absorption is the best unless you can hold someone down and take a needle to their vein you are not gonna compare... A sword is not an IV drip.
I would say you need an actual needle and a heal DC20 check on a helpless or willing subject as a full round action, DC15 if taking 2 rounds, DC10 if taking 3 or more full rounds

Slayn82
2010-01-15, 07:07 AM
In older editions, up to 3.0, using poisons inhaled or ingested in an improper manner (ingesting an inhaled poison or inhaling a ingested poison) made the poison deal only the secondary damage, with no 1minute after effect. Contact poisons are fully effective if ingested.

Gorbash
2010-01-15, 07:14 AM
So, Air Genasis aren't immune to inhaled poisons?

graeylin
2010-01-15, 10:10 AM
DM's call, IMO.. depending on the actual poison/toxin, the action and amount (remember, toxins are dependent on dose and time as well, and route of entry typically affects both).

Arsenic, ingested, can be fatal. INhaled, not as much, but still a problem. Rubbed onto the skin or into an open wound, not at all.

Anthrax, ingested, not that bad. INhaled, deadly. Rubbed into a wound, not so much a threat.

Mercury, ingested, eh... inhaled, worse, rubbed into open wound, eh...

Ricin, injected, fairly toxic. INgested, fairly toxic. inhaled, fairly toxic.

My ruling would be that an inhaled poison works best inhaled, and the DC lowers if you try alternate methods of attack.

Cyrion
2010-01-15, 10:21 AM
From a killing cat girls perspective, you also need to think about how the poison acts. Some things that are poisonous because they're inhaled are poisonous because they affect the lungs or respiratory system- asbestos, mustard gas, etc. Ingested or injected just won't be as effective.

If you've got a really poison heavy campaign it might be worthwhile to make the discinction, but in general I'd keep it simple: A poison listed as inhaled will only be effective when inhaled unless the character makes a poison or alchemy roll to convert it to another form (effectively making a new poison).

hamishspence
2010-01-15, 10:25 AM
asbestos should probably be counted as an extremely long term disease rather than a poison- wouldn't really work in D&D.

(As in- you're exposed, and 10+ years later, you die)

Deth Muncher
2010-01-15, 10:30 AM
While I realize it generally depends on the poison, if sprayed into an open wound, I'm betting SOMETHING would happen.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-15, 10:56 AM
In. Inhaled means just that, + what else the description mentions. If it has to enter the body by interacting with saliva glands (those found in the eye ducts, nose and mouth among other places) then most likely it is dormant until such contact.

taltamir
2010-01-15, 02:55 PM
asbestos should probably be counted as an extremely long term disease rather than a poison- wouldn't really work in D&D.

(As in- you're exposed, and 10+ years later, you die)

more like, you are exposed repeatedly for years... start rolling fort saves every year, for every year of exposure the save DC increases by 1, after 10 it increases by 2 per year. for every year without exposure DC decreases by 1, if it reaches down to 0 you need not make any more saves.

In regards to poison having different operational methods,very true... some snake venoms can and are drank by people harmlessly, others would be deadly if drank.
If you want to do it properly, you can make a list of classification (such as neurotoxin) and then specify exactly what happens with each one if administered "wrongly"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxin#Biotoxins

hamishspence
2010-01-15, 03:59 PM
the point I was making is- sometimes, one exposure does the damage, but it takes a long time to show any effect (Mesothelioma).

Other times, it may produce a long term effect (pleural plaques)

So, if you "failed your save" against the worst effects (got really really unlucky) you still might not find out about it for 10 years or more.

So, a lucky person might go for years with heavy exposure and no major problem (just plaques) an unlucky person might contract lung cancer after one exposure, but for a long time, you wouldn't know for sure.