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Serpentine
2010-01-15, 04:58 AM
So*, D&D and roleplaying games are, at their cores, ways for people to actually "act out" the fantasy (and sci-fi, and horror, etc) stories that they love. But, of course, some staples must be sacrificed for practicality.

I just thought of one that's kind of sad, if understandable: the death scene. More specifically, the Heartfelt Last Words/Dying Conversation. As seen here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSlkO41Y9I4). Also here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcHhlcxUkP4), if you must.
The reasons for its sacrifice are pretty straightforward: the combination of easy availability of Cure spells and resources, and the fact that a character is going strong and able to stay strong indefinitely until reaching negatives (or -10, in the case of Die Hard), at which point they fall unconcious; no concious slipping away, they're either dead or saved. One possible exception might be a Barbarian after coming out of his Rage, in the absence of cure spells, being able to say a few words before his Rage wears off and the temporary hit points are taken away. Generally, though, there's just no opportunity for a conversation between dying and death...

Are there any other fantasy staples that have regretfully being sacrificed on the altar of practicality?




*In your face, person who started that anti-so thread! :smalltongue:

Ernir
2010-01-15, 05:15 AM
It's mechanically unsupported... but I have a character have his last words. He regained consciousness a moment before dying, everyone aware that his wounds are beyond mortal magic to cure.


Are there any other fantasy staples that have regretfully being sacrificed on the altar of practicality?
In D&D 3.5, archery being an efficient way to kill people. :smalltongue:

Totally Guy
2010-01-15, 05:19 AM
Are there any other fantasy staples that have regretfully being sacrificed on the altar of practicality?

And magic having a dark, consuming cost.

Serpentine
2010-01-15, 05:19 AM
In D&D 3.5, archery being an efficient way to kill people. :smalltongue:Could you please explain? :smallconfused: Archery as a weapon of war goes back millenia - Egypt, Persia, Medival Europe, native Americans... Nothing I've ever seen or read suggests that it's not quite effacious in dispatching one's enemies. The closest is maybe the Romans considering it "unmanly" to rely on archery and/or horses.

Ernir
2010-01-15, 05:20 AM
Could you please explain? :smallconfused: Archery as a weapon of war goes back millenia - Egypt, Persia, Medival Europe, native Americans... Nothing I've ever seen or read suggests that it's not quite effacious in dispatching one's enemies. The closest is maybe the Romans considering it "unmanly" to rely on archery and/or horses.

Ah, I meant that it is not very effective in D&D.

Serpentine
2010-01-15, 05:21 AM
Ahhhh. Other way round. Gotcha :smallwink:

Longcat
2010-01-15, 05:29 AM
Well, you can always rule that a player is allowed to utter some last words or a dying monologue. Some systems, e.g. Shadowrun, allow a character to remain alive for a short time after they "died" (in SR, you have to spend Edge though).

IMO, it can add greatly to the atmosphere of a game, if both the players and the DM are up to it. I could give you an example from our game, but that would derail the thread too much.:smallwink:

@Ernir: Actually, Archery can be rather effective in D&D, if properly optimized. Take, for example, a Scout/Ranger Swift Hunter with Improved Manyshot.

2xMachina
2010-01-15, 05:41 AM
Sword & Board is pretty bad in D&D.

I also think TWF is also very cool, but it's not that great in D&D (need to spend lots of feats to get started). Cool fighting forms are also usually Dex based, but Dex fighting again, isn't that good (need another feat. And doesn't boost damage).

Archery... Wind wall, protection from arrows and those really kill their effectiveness.

JaronK
2010-01-15, 05:55 AM
Ah, I meant that it is not very effective in D&D.

Eh, Archery in D&D can absolutely get the job done. A decent bow (Splitting is the most important part), a bunch of feats (Fighters can get you there, or you can rely on Cleric buffs), and you're there. Just full attack and go nuts. Sure Wind Wall and the like can screw it up, but are you really always fighting casters? Any non magic type will suffer against those anyhow, and archers are hardly an exception.

Sword and Board is indeed missing though. I can make good shield builds, but since they rely primarily on hitting with the shield the sword becomes an extra side piece (the shield Crusader in our group, who is one of our primary damage dealers, keeps two swords on her back for fun. She's never drawn them). Really, a good shield build never needs to draw the sword unless maybe it's a Skillfull Spinning Sword used to extend reach to trip with or extend Iron Guard's Glare range... and that's just not the same.

Dying words are definitely missing in D&D. You can get them in Shadowrun... a character can remain conscious at deadly damage but if a heal spell failed to stabilize them and a medic couldn't do it either (both can be hard to land on a heavily cybered character) you can get to the point where a character is barely conscious and about to die but still able to croak something out.

JaronK

Eldariel
2010-01-15, 05:59 AM
Archery... Wind wall, protection from arrows and those really kill their effectiveness.

It's just Wind Wall, which you can generally bypass. It does make massive range sniping against targets with caster unviable though. The thing with Protection is that it's DR/Magic. So it's completely useless against people who you'd give a damn about.

Also, it's depletable so an army can munch through it post-haste making it inefficient there too. Weather conditions though tend to be pretty damn efficient. Arguably Force-projectiles could ignore weather (by Common Sense, not RAW), but that's about it. You need Freedom of Movement for your arrows :smalltongue:

Xiander
2010-01-15, 06:43 AM
Realistic fear is often lacking. Either your character is fully composed or he is fleing in utter panick. This can of course be amended by a good player, but the system does in no way support that characters feel any sort of regret that someone is going to stab swords in them in a moment.

Pharaoh's Fist
2010-01-15, 06:48 AM
Because they have green skin.

Unfortunate implications ensue.

banthesun
2010-01-15, 07:16 AM
0 hit points. The character can say what they need to or even preform some kind of dying action. They might survive, but otherwise this is their last chance. Unfortunately this is a bizarely uncommon situation, so I'd say make some houserules to give everyone a turn of this before they pass out.

(I only really know d20 modern, and I'm hardly an expert at that, so I hope I didn't talk too much bull)

onthetown
2010-01-15, 07:17 AM
How about the fear of dying in general? In fantasy stories, the heroes are trying to get everything done before death, because that's the one thing they might be scared of... Not to mention it adds tension to the story because you're rooting for the hero to live and complete his duty. In D&D? Stop your bellyaching and get to a temple, then go back to saving the world.

bosssmiley
2010-01-15, 10:05 AM
95% of folklore and/or pulp fantasy (you know, the original source material for the game) cannot be replicated by modern "as the writers intended" D&D.


And magic having a dark, consuming cost.

Truth. Reliable magic being readily available to the protagonists short-cuts most of the classic mythological/fairy-tale/pulp fantasy tropes that were the focus of the game in the first place.

IMG (influenced by CoC, WFRP, etc.) magic corrupts.

The Deej
2010-01-15, 10:17 AM
Iillumian final utterance can definitely fit the 'death scene' description. Especially that of a BBEG screaming "NOOOOOOooooooo..." when he's destroyed.

but again, that's a limited occurance.

Optimystik
2010-01-15, 10:29 AM
Otherwise known as "Mommy, why didn't they just use a Phoenix Down on Aeris?" (http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html)

Totally Guy
2010-01-15, 10:33 AM
Truth. Reliable magic being readily available to the protagonists short-cuts most of the classic mythological/fairy-tale/pulp fantasy tropes that were the focus of the game in the first place.

It makes these "Can I overlap my spell area?" type questions just seem... spoiled.

valadil
2010-01-15, 10:42 AM
An overpowerful mentor. IE Gandalf. You'd never stick a bunch of level 1 halfling commoners in the same party as an epic wizard. This trope appears in quite a few fantasy books but rarely plays out in D&D. If you try to make the mentor an NPC (which arguably Gandalf is) some players may react badly and try to burn it with fire.

Threats of bodily harm. I guess this falls under the fear section mentioned above. In movies you always see a character with a gun in their face or a knife at their throat. In D&D it's meaningless. The player will say they can take 1d4 from the dagger, and move straight into combat. I've tried houseruling around this (damage outside of combat is always a coup de grace, or something) but even that isn't enough to really threaten the players.

JaronK
2010-01-15, 02:50 PM
An overpowerful mentor. IE Gandalf. You'd never stick a bunch of level 1 halfling commoners in the same party as an epic wizard.

DMPC! That's what Gandalf was! And Legolas was played by the DM's girlfriend.

JaronK

pffh
2010-01-15, 03:26 PM
DMPC! That's what Gandalf was! And Legolas was played by the DM's girlfriend.

JaronK

Indeed Gandalf was a dmpc

(See DM of the rings: first comic is here http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612 )

Ormagoden
2010-01-15, 03:28 PM
DMPC! That's what Gandalf was! And Legolas was played by the DM's girlfriend.

JaronK

Ok I seriously just choked and almost died laughing so hard!! >.<

Draz74
2010-01-15, 03:34 PM
An overpowerful mentor. IE Gandalf. You'd never stick a bunch of level 1 halfling commoners in the same party as an epic wizard. This trope appears in quite a few fantasy books but rarely plays out in D&D. If you try to make the mentor an NPC (which arguably Gandalf is) some players may react badly and try to burn it with fire.

One of the (many) ways that E6 portrays fantasy better ...