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AtwasAwamps
2010-01-15, 03:59 PM
I'm having some trouble with one of my DMs and I'd like to ask a quick question of the group. I'd also need a bit of a citation to confirm that this is how it works.

It was my assumption that if you have sneak attack and your opponent fulfill one of the following conditions:

A) Flat-footed/Dex to AC lost
B) Flanked

Then EVERY attack you make on that target gets the bonus die.

EG: You are a rogue with TWF and you are in melee with an opponent. Before your turn, an ally moves into flanking position. On your turn, you make a full attack, using both weapons. If you hit with both weapons, both deal your extra sneak attack damage.

I am also assuming that Sudden Strike works the same way. As an additional note, when a ninja uses ghost step and attacks out of ghost step, do they get their Sudden Strike damage for a full iterative attack, or do they become visible after the first attack and thus only get it on one attack?

Additionally, I am assuming skirmish applies to all attacks made after the required movement.

I know its a pain, but if I am correct, could you confirm this and also tell me where I might find confirmation of this in official WotC material? I'd like to be able to support myself when I next meet my crew and I am having trouble digging this up.

Grumman
2010-01-15, 04:04 PM
You simply check before each attack is made. So for a flanking rogue, for the first attack you check: Is he flanking? (yes) For the second attack you check: Is he still flanking? (yes) And so on. If you were relying on invisibility and stop being invisible, you can't sneak attack any more. Otherwise, go for it.

The Deej
2010-01-15, 04:13 PM
If you are flanking or your opponent is flat footed, then every attack you make against them is eligible for sneak attack, even full attacks (TWF'ing is full attacking). If you are getting sneak attack from invisibility/etherealness and your attack breaks it, then only the first one gets sneak attack (which is why greater invisibility is better than regular invisibility).

Sudden strike works like sneak attack, except that you don't get it for flanking. Sneak attack rules are in the PHB in the Rogue section-Pg. 50.

Sudden strike is in Complete Adventurer-Pg 8

Draz74
2010-01-15, 05:49 PM
Note that Ghost Step invisibility is not broken by making an attack. The rules about invisibility breaking when you make an attack comes from the description of the actual Invisibility spell. The rules of Ghost Step do not refer to being similar to the Invisibility spell.

Therefore, a Ninja using Ghost Step can generally get Sudden Strike damage on all attacks of a full attack action.

AtwasAwamps
2010-01-16, 12:56 PM
Note that Ghost Step invisibility is not broken by making an attack. The rules about invisibility breaking when you make an attack comes from the description of the actual Invisibility spell. The rules of Ghost Step do not refer to being similar to the Invisibility spell.

Therefore, a Ninja using Ghost Step can generally get Sudden Strike damage on all attacks of a full attack action.

Was this specified anywhere or is it just an assumed reading of the rules? I'm trying to figure this out just because a DM of my game recently said that ninjas do become visible when they attack, which isn't what the rules say. Is there any FAQ reference that assures this?

EDIT: Just a note, I believe that this is correct...a ninja remains invisible even after attacking, but I just wanted to see if I can have an additional note about it.

Flickerdart
2010-01-16, 01:03 PM
Skirmish, also, works as long as you move 10 feet. That's what makes Greater Manyshot so powerful on Scouts.

Boci
2010-01-16, 01:07 PM
Skirmish, also, works as long as you move 10 feet. That's what makes Greater Manyshot so powerful on Scouts.

I always prefered a level dip into cloister cleric and then travel devotion, but each methods works, and greater many shot is more pure scout.

Curmudgeon
2010-01-16, 01:59 PM
Was this specified anywhere or is it just an assumed reading of the rules? I'm trying to figure this out just because a DM of my game recently said that ninjas do become visible when they attack, which isn't what the rules say. Is there any FAQ reference that assures this?

EDIT: Just a note, I believe that this is correct...a ninja remains invisible even after attacking, but I just wanted to see if I can have an additional note about it.
This doesn't needed to be specified explicitly. Grumman's got the easy synopsis: check for the enabling condition before each attack. The only explicit statement here is that the Invisibility spell stops working after you attack. Your DM is wrong, because the Ninja Ghost Step ability specifies that it lasts for 1 round, and references the invisibile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#invisible) condition, not the Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm) spell.

sonofzeal
2010-01-16, 02:09 PM
Note that "Flatfooted" and "Denied Dex to AC" are two separate conditions that, by default, overlap. Someone with Uncanny Dodge retains Dex to AC but is still Flatfooted. Conversely, someone paralized is Denied Dex to AC, but isn't Flatfooted. Rogues can SA one, but not the other.

Just one more thing to remember.

DragoonWraith
2010-01-16, 02:12 PM
Also, if necessary, break out the math and show him that stealthy characters need to get the extra damage on every attack to remain meaningful.