Chinese Zodiac

[the_archduke]

So I've had this idea kicking around in the back of my head for a while. I want to homebrew an oriental-feel campaign setting. Part of the setting will be the 12 members of the chinese zodiac as ancestral heroes/demigods. This will be core only, and I noticed an interesting coincidence.

There are 12 members of the zodiac: rat, ox, tiger, rabbit, snake, horse, goat, monkey, rooster, dog, boar, and dragon. Of these, clearly dragon doesn't need any assistance to be superpowered. That leaves 11... and there are 11 base classes in core. So I thought that I could have the other 11 be awakened versions of the base animal and have 20 levels in one of the base classes each. For reasons subject tot he setting, only Dragon will be True Neutral. Each corner alignment will have two members of the zodiac, and the alignments with neutral components will have one.

Dragon: N Gold Dragon. What age category should he be? I definitely want him to be gold though.

Rat: NE Wizard. I admit I got this idea from the awakened rat lich thread from a while ago... to cool not to use. Maybe with a human as a familiar...

Ox: CE Barbarian?

Tiger: LE Ranger? Dual-wielding claws?

Rabbit: NG Cleric? Maybe with the luck domain? I want the smaller animals to be the casters.

Snake: CE Rogue. Sneak-attack with a poisonous bite

Horse: LG Paladin. Smite evil with a kick and gains a rider at 5th level...

Goat: CN Sorceror?

Monkey: LE Monk. Beside it being very punny, the monkey has the hands to use unarmed strike.

Rooster: CG Bard. Cockadoodledoo! Its now a magic song!

Dog: LG Fighter?

Boar: LN Druid. Wildshapes into a human?


Does anyone have any suggestions/critiques?


edited: Dragon and Rabbit's alignments

[DracoDei]

I have no idea if those match the Chinese Zodiac personalities, but a horse paladin gaining a rider at 5th level is awesome. I am a big proponent of the idea that intellegent mounts are motivated enough that they don't get any bonuses from having the Ride skill used on them or whatever (see the largest link in my signature... you will know it when you see it).

They won't be all the same power level of course, since they will have different HD, and the classes aren'[t all equally powerful. I would find the CR(if they are going to only show up once in a while and will have minimal equipment) or ECL(if they are major players in world politics) of each of the 11 animals, and then find the age catagory (and HD within that age catagory) that most closely matches that target.

[the_archduke]

This is going to be a low power world as far as the PCs are concerned. A level 20 fighter might be small potatoes compared to a level 20 wizard, but they are a force of nature compared to a level 5 anything.

[DracoDei]

I wasn't thinking about their ability to eat PCs and call it a light appetizer. I was thinking about the balance of power between them.

[Debihuman]

I was recently kicking around a similar idea (thinking of Mulan). You could apply the Anthropomorphic Template from Savage Species (with a little creative tweaking to keep it in line with 3.5) and then adjust for making them Quasi-deities (Rank 0 deities).

Or do you want them to just be Awakened animals? Dragons don't qualify so you'll have to adjust for the dragon.

Debby

[Temotei]

I wasn't thinking about their ability to eat PCs and call it a light appetizer. I was thinking about the balance of power between them.

Good point. Otherwise, the evil spellcasters would just kill the good melee guys if they wanted to...and they usually do if it involves extra power and dominion over more people.

[Zexion]

Great idea! The dragon should be a Wyrm (or at least that's what I think)

[the_archduke]

That is a good point Dracodei... hmm... maybe I could move Dragon to N and have him be the one who created the system. Shift Rabbit to NG, and the 4 part-neural alignments are the primary casters. Thus the balance is preserved with everyone allied with a caster that at least partially shares their alignment and Dragon watches over to keep the balance.

I also like the idea of them being DR 0 demigods... I have more work to do.

[Zexion]

!!!
If these are GODS then they need to be at least Divine Rank 5 or 6, right?

[the_archduke]

Definitely not gods, but demigods fits excellently

DR 0... and maybe DR 1 for Dragon

[Zexion]

Oookay then. But you had better give them the salient divine ability Divine (Class).

[Silverscale]

Though this is an interesting take on the Chinese Zodiac and I'm interested in seeing where you go with it.....I am forced to point out that there are actually 60 different Zodiac signs in the Chinese Zodiac when combined with the other half of the zodiac (Earth, Metal, Wood, Water, Fire) for further research look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Zodiac

[Zexion]

For the elemental thing, perhaps Dragon is DR 2, all others are DR 1, and there are 5 "elemental servants" (DR 0) that obey their animal god. Maybe.

[Silverscale]

For the elemental thing, perhaps Dragon is DR 2, all others are DR 1, and there are 5 "elemental servants" (DR 0) that obey their animal god. Maybe.

Depending on how closely you want to follow the Chinese Zodiac, I can give you a few suggestions.....I've done a fair amount of research into the Chinese Zodiac for a character i created for Mutants & Masterminds

[Latronis]

Though this is an interesting take on the Chinese Zodiac and I'm interested in seeing where you go with it.....I am forced to point out that there are actually 60 different Zodiac signs in the Chinese Zodiac when combined with the other half of the zodiac (Earth, Metal, Wood, Water, Fire) for further research look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Zodiac

Actually theres more like 10,000 combinations

[Zexion]

OVERLOAD...OF... UNNECESSARY INFORMATION...
But seriously, who's going to make THAT many animals...

[Silverscale]

Actually theres more like 10,000 combinations
Yes if you count all the various different Month/Hour combinations (which actually comes up to 525,600, but who's counting)..... but lets not get that technical


OVERLOAD...OF... UNNECESSARY INFORMATION...
But seriously, who's going to make THAT many animals...
True but if you stick with 60 different combinations , 5 variations on 12 different animanls that wouldn't be to hard.

[Latronis]

Yes if you count all the various different Month/Hour combinations (which actually comes up to 525,600, but who's counting)..... but lets not get that technical


True but if you stick with 60 different combinations , 5 variations on 12 different animanls that wouldn't be to hard.

Sure it's easy. Slap some kind of elemental template on the base creature for water, fire, and earth. And find something else for wood for metal.

Some kind of living construct and plant templates resulting in similiar overall power

[Zexion]

Maybe for metal, they could be made of adamantium.

[Altaria87]

The only thing I disagree with so far is Dog as LG, LN is much better, sure they're loyal, but having been on the recieving end of what one of them can do completely unprovoked, I can say dogs are definately not good. Boar could be LE (seems more fitting), and Monkey LG (because everything's better with Monkeys)

[Temotei]

The only thing I disagree with so far is Dog as LG, LN is much better, sure they're loyal, but having been on the recieving end of what one of them can do completely unprovoked, I can say dogs are definately not good. Boar could be LE (seems more fitting), and Monkey LG (because everything's better with Monkeys)

Dogs are true neutral. This is a deity though. Not just a dog.

Same with the rest.

[Latronis]

Dog is probably the most paladin-like

[Agi Hammerthief]

The one animal with absolutely no manipulatory appendage as Rogue seems a bit silly.


I'd swap the goat with the snake:

charging sneak attack with the horns,
plus goats are thieving anything they can eat


snake with silent spell metamagic has no need for arms

[Serpentine]

Dragon: N Gold Dragon. What age category should he be? I definitely want him to be gold though.I'm not sure what exactly you're intending to use them for, but either one of the oldest categories, or maybe variable, sounds right to me.

Rat: NE Wizard. I admit I got this idea from the awakened rat lich thread from a while ago... to cool not to use. Maybe with a human as a familiar...Kinda neat. Though a cat familiar could be fun, too.

Ox: CE Barbarian?]Interesting. Works fine. Though Chaos and Ox clashes a bit, to me.

Tiger: LE Ranger? Dual-wielding claws?Works well enough.

Rabbit: NG Cleric? Maybe with the luck domain? I want the smaller animals to be the casters.I disagree with your "small animals = casters" idea. I mean, a Rabbit Monk or Fighter would be awesome.

Snake: CE Rogue. Sneak-attack with a poisonous biteA bit trite - both the Evil and the Rogue - but eh.

Horse: LG Paladin. Smite evil with a kick and gains a rider at 5th level...I lolled. Then I told my boyfriend, and he lolled too. Perfect. I can see a horse being all high-and-mighty, holier-than-thou, too.

Goat: CN Sorceror?Goats seem more Lawful and/or Evil, to me. Otherwise neato.

Monkey: LE Monk. Beside it being very punny, the monkey has the hands to use unarmed strike.Eh, Monkeys could fit anywhere, really. And they are evil! Also they hate toes. Or is that just pygmy marmosets?

Rooster: CG Bard. Cockadoodledoo! Its now a magic song!Great idea! Not sure about the CG, but I don't know what alignment would fit it.

Dog: LG Fighter?Not sure about Lawful (they're too happy :smalltongue:), but fine.

Boar: LN Druid. Wildshapes into a human?Excellent, fits perfectly.

So... what, exactly, are you doing with these guys?

[Altaria87]

Eh, Monkeys could fit anywhere, really. And they are evil! Also they hate toes. Or is that just pygmy marmosets?
Dogs are more evil than Monkeys. Monkeys savage your car because your car enters their territory. Dogs attempt to bite your hand off because you're on the other side of the car park.

[Calmar]

I have no idea if those match the Chinese Zodiac personalities, but a horse paladin gaining a rider at 5th level is awesome.
Like acquiring a celestial human fighter?

[Serpentine]

Dogs are more evil than Monkeys. Monkeys savage your car because your car enters their territory. Dogs attempt to bite your hand off because you're on the other side of the car park.Monkeys will piss at you because you happened to wear sandals that day.
Bad (pet) dogs are the result of bad owners.

[Silverscale]

Like acquiring a celestial human fighter?

Yes that would be awesome

[Altaria87]

Monkeys will piss at you because you happened to wear sandals that day.
Bad (pet) dogs are the result of bad owners.
And good dogs are only a result of good owners, which is why LN works best.
But, whatever, as I just saw looking over the Thread again, the TC wanted the for hlaf-neutral alignments to be spellcasters, so I guess it works his way.

[Dairun Cates]

I'm just going to say this. If you're going to specifically base them on the Chinese Zodiac, you MIGHT want to research the actual personalities of the Zodiac a bit before placing the alignment and classes on them. The eastern understanding of animals is NOT the same as western understanding, and the versions you've done aren't accurate to what you're trying to emulate. If you're using an eastern zodiac for the game, you might want to mimic the eastern philosophy.

For instance, Take the Ox. (http://pages.infinit.net/garrick/chinese/ox.html)

You have it stated out as a Chaotic Evil barbarian, but the ACTUAL personality traits of the Ox put it as a calm, subdued, loyal, and practical creature. Hell, with the dogmatic and stubborn part, they're closer to most people's definitions of paladins. Of course, dogs might fit that bill a bit better with their constant worrying and obsession over equality. (http://pages.infinit.net/garrick/chinese/dog.html)

On the other hand, there's the rabbit. (http://pages.infinit.net/garrick/chinese/rabbit.html)

Which more heavily exemplifies the bard with it's carefree attitude, artistic sense, and charismatic cunning.

Ironically, the rooster is probably one of the more evil zodiac signs. (http://pages.infinit.net/garrick/chinese/rooster.html)

They're boastful, proud, self-centric, often obsessed with material things and appearance, and manipulative. While those aren't inherently evil traits, they're actually the ones most likely to be seen in a bad guy.

Also, about that horse that's a Paladin. (http://pages.infinit.net/garrick/chinese/horse.html)

"The Horse despises being pressured to act for the good of the group or made to feel guilty. No matter how integrated he seems to be, a Horse's inner self remains powerfully rebellious. Although they have boundless energy and ambition, Horses have a hard time belonging. "

Worst paladin ever.

Horses are actually known for their quick-wit and inability to stay in one place, and...

"The Horse is hot-blooded, hot-headed and impatient. He is a bit of an egoist, well, selfish sometimes, that it is rare for him to interest himself in any problems except his own. And though this egoist works only for himself and for his own success, his work nevertheless benefits everybody."

I take it back. The Horse is the one most likely to be the BBEG (that isn't the dragon, itself).

Also, I know it fits your concept, but for the record...

Dragons are kinda jerks. (http://pages.infinit.net/garrick/chinese/dragon.html)

"Dragons are tyrannical. They hate orders except when they are giving them. Unlike the Tiger, who imposes his will seriously and firmly, the Ox, whose authority is implied in his very stern demeanor, or the Rat, who thrusts his dominion over others, the Dragon knows innately how to exert authority yet be gentle with his slaves. Dragons are terrible snobs. Although money is not always the object, they are slavishly impressed by wealth, prestige, rank and splendor."

And that's just a section on them.

The monkey is actually more likely to be True Neutral. But once again, I understand that the dragon thing is to fit your concept. So, I'll let that one slide.

Edit: Also, snakes are typical shown as medicinal in Chinese myth; healing poisons rather than causing them. So, amusingly enough, you'd probably be better served with a snake cleric, instead of a rogue, if we're being accurate.

[DracoDei]

I concur with the above. I assumed you had actually done your "homework".

[the_archduke]

I'm going to go with some of the other feedback and say that a horse paladin fits because of the rule of cool :smallcool:

Ox as a barbarian was just because I had a few left to fit in. Switching ox and dog could work.

Moving rooster to CE but keeping it a bard works.

Just because someone imposes their will on everyone else doesn't make them evil. Jerks could easily be TN.

So this is what it would look like:

TN Dragon

NE Rat Wizard

NG Snake Cleric

LN Boar Druid

CN Goat Sorceror

CE Rooster Bard

CE Dog Barbarian*

LG Horse Paladin

LG Ox Fighter

CG Rabbit Rogue (for sneak attack, think Monty Python and the Holy Grail)

LE Monkey Monk

LE Tiger Ranger


I appreciate the input on personalities. I didn't even think to look at that. As for elements... maybe I can fit those in as servants with templates like was suggested... though a wood tiger makes me laugh for some reason :smallbiggrin:

* Please don't tell me that dogs can't be CE because of how cute your puppy is. I have known a few that were pretty rotten, and remember that these are awakened Gods not housepets. Though I wish cat was in the zodiac because that would fit so much better :smallwink:

[Agi Hammerthief]

CG Rabbit Rogue (for sneak attack, think Monty Python and the Holy Grail)


http://www.happyscrappy.com/blog/archives/images/bunny-cookie.jpg

and

http://llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/images/dumbluck.jpg

[Zexion]

GO MONTY PYTHON!
Seriously, though, that rabbit has medium epic (lvl 40+) sneak attack. That's what you need to kill "experienced" knights in shining armor.
Agi Hammerthief, your second image says "hotlinking disabled"

[DracoDei]

The Monty Python bunny has traditionally been modeled as Vorpal.

[Zexion]

The Monty Python bunny has traditionally been modeled as Vorpal.

That actually makes a lot of sense... and gives me a campaign idea...
MWAHAHAHAHA