OOTS #699 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Ha! I knew it! I knew we'd go back to them!

Oh man, comic 700....:smallbiggrin:

Poor MitD. I hope he learns that O-Chul is safe soon...

[Hardcore]

"Oh yeah, he gave me a direct order" LOL!

PS. This clearly is a filler strip (For the coming 700). Good thing with OotS they can be very nice filler strips:)

[Water-Smurf]

I was waiting for a scene like this!

...And that little black line on the bit of Redcloak's head we saw gave me a sinking feeling in my stomach. I mean, I know his eye's gone, but it didn't really sink in...

[Zanaril]

D'aww.

The MITD is really thinking about this, isn't he?


...And that little black line on the bit of Redcloak's head we saw gave me a sinking feeling in my stomach. I mean, I know his eye's gone, but it didn't really sink in...

*looks at the comic again*

Oh gosh darn it. :smallfrown:

[Fearabbit]

Nice. I just read myself into that whole "What monster is the MitD" discussion, and only then realized that it seems to use some sort of magic by accident (after which it seems to get sleepy).

And now a whole strip dedicated to that issue. :)

[Eloel]

Back to Team Evil, yay!

[Ashen Lilies]

Nobody checked his shoes!?! :smalleek:
OH NOOOOOO!!! :shockhorror:

[Hardcore]

So, looks like Rich actually is planning something for #700, as this one is a filler strip IMO.

[DwarvenExodus]

I hope we stick with MitD for at least a few more strips, he's one of my favourite characters.

[Altaria87]

"How can he be safe if nobody checked his shoes!?"
One of the better MiTD Quotes.
Also, yay, an update while I was online for once :smallsmile:

[Kastanok]

He's trying, bless him :) Our little MitD is all growned up ;)

[lord_khaine]

whats the purpose of throwing someone into a pit of angry tortoises?

[Yendor]

Maybe they were taken by a wight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html)?

(So how come this strip has a 2009 copyright and the last two had 2010?)

EDIT: "Teleporking?" Oh dear. Nothing good can come of that.

[Deme]

Awwww.... Monster-san's concern is precious. And funny. I'm sure he'll find out one of these days what happened to O-Chul.

Also, hints of eye-patch are awesome.

[Raging Gene Ray]

"Teleporking?" Oh dear. Nothing good can come of that.

Monster-san teleporked O-Chul. This sounds like a plot point in one of the more hurried Crack-Pairings.

[fishboy]

You're all too late, www.teleporking.com is MINE! :smalltongue:

Well, not really :smallwink:
MitD, the demonic roaches and Belkar get all the best comments in this cartoon, I would marry them all if I could

[Darth Hunterix]

Excuse me, but has the hobo been teleyouknowed from there or not? Because there were no special effects, but I have a strange feeling that it worked in last panel.

[Trixie]

I wonder if the 'shoes' part is a clue about MitD.

And it finally should put to grave that nonsense "pokemon" brainbug growing in some parts of the forum :smallamused:

Oh, and 'Exit' is also a spell in FF.

By the way, what is a carry-on? :smallconfused:

[nli10]

Good strip - and my book is on it's way to the store :D

[Conuly]

Excuse me, but has the hobo been teleyouknowed from there or not? Because there were no special effects, but I have a strange feeling that it worked in last panel.

No, he just walked off.

[Ancalagon]

Stupid question, but what are the demon roaches referencing in the last panel?

They seem to take the "Escape" from the Monster as some sort of order. Apparently, they wanted to leave but could only do that once they got told (ordered?) by the monster to do so.

If that was true, it would hint at some hellish-origin of the monster.

If I am just too stupid to get the real reference and meaning of that joke... please explain. ;)

[Lord Loss]

Poor MITD! I think that Strip 700 will feature Tiamat or the Linear Guild... Hope it's the Guild (Seriously, what have they been doing this whole while?)

[Mauve Shirt]

Hooray, scene change!
Will Xykon find his phylactery in 700?

[Ancalagon]

Poor MITD! I think that Strip 700 will feature Tiamat or the Linear Guild... Hope it's the Guild (Seriously, what have they been doing this whole while?)

Hopefully dieing? ;)

[SteveDJ]

Interesting strip this time around - but feels kinda short... like maybe this should have been a doulbe-sized or something? :(

[fishboy]

I wonder if the 'shoes' part is a clue about MitD.
<snip>
By the way, what is a carry-on? :smallconfused:

The "shoes" part is referring to the security check in airports, where they check your shoes after the failed shoebombing attempt (Richard Reid).
Same goes for carry-on: it's the luggage you bring with you on the plane, which is also checked for dangerous nailclippers, fishhooks and waterbottles :smallyuk:

[Ron Miel]

I wonder if the 'shoes' part is a clue about MitD.

And it finally should put to grave that nonsense "pokemon" brainbug growing in some parts of the forum :smallamused:

Oh, and 'Exit' is also a spell in FF.

By the way, what is a carry-on? :smallconfused:



A carry-on is a bag that you take with you on board an airplane. (Because O-Chul might have been transported to another plane. Get it?.)


The shoes comment isn't a clue about the monster, it's a joke about airport security.


Edit - ninja'd

[Faltenin]

Hmmm.... not sure what to think about this one. Definitely sub-par compared to some of the brilliance we've been used to. I can only hope it's a build-up to something really impressive!

[DabblerWizard]

"Escape Clause". Oh linguistic references :smallsmile:

General Linguistic Rationale

In its simplest form, a clause is just a subject and its associated verb. In English, this often leads to an incomplete sentence, or an incomplete thought. E.G: Jack threw... [some object]

Here's a clause that represents a complete, if simple, thought: Jack read.

There's another kind of clause that Rich might be hinting to. You can have more complex clauses that are subordinate, or internally dependent upon, another clause or sentence.

Examples:
Jack picked up the spoon, and [he ate all of his soup].

Jack started [cramming for an exam].
I think this second example counts as a subordinate clause, even though its in passive voice, i.e. the exam itself isn't doing the cramming.

- The words in parentheses would be the subordinate clause.


In game Rationale - Bringing together "clause" and OOTS world logic

(A) If we trust that the MITD had a direct effect on O-Chul's escape from Xykon's lair, then we can assume that he has only an incomplete understanding of his own teleportation powers. This point is more obvious than the second.

(B) Using the basic outline I provided above, maybe the MITD only knows the "subordinate clause" part of his teleportation powers, and as soon as he understands the complete sentence (i.e. comes to understand how to use his powers), then... something cool will happen.

[Samuraiko]

*laughing* And as usual, I love the demon roaches' commentary. I swear, I think they're smarter than Xykon, sometimes.

The Giant really needs to register TELEPORKING.COM and make that the Demon Roaches' official home page.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko

[Trixie]

The "shoes" part is referring to the security check in airports, where they check your shoes after the failed shoebombing attempt (Richard Reid).
Same goes for carry-on: it's the luggage you bring with you on the plane, which is also checked for dangerous nailclippers, fishhooks and waterbottles :smallyuk:

Oh. Thanks.

Well, I live in country where these things have completely different names :smallsigh:

Sue me :P

[J.Gellert]

Aw, the poor thing thinks it can telepork people away... Maybe it will try to telepork itself out of the darkness!

[Kareasint]

Fifth Panel, one of the roaches says "Egress." That is a spell used in EQ to port to a safe spot in the zone.

Check the year on the copyright.

I get the impression that the MITD is no longer fully committed to Team Evil. Given this, a fight may end up occurring between the MITD and Xykon

[ScottishDragon]

Lol this is one of my fravorite strips now.Poor mitd trying to know if a friend is safe,no one understands him.

[i6uuaq]

I dunno what Faltenin is on about, I thought this was hilarious!

1) MitD has picked up the scientific method from RedCloak, attempting to test his theory

2) MitD has also picked up certain deviousness from Team Evil, "Oh yeah, he gave me a direct order."

Also, MitD explicitly referred to O-chul as his best friend in the entire world, which lends further credence to the growing split within Team Evil and the idea that MitD will eventually turn against them. Good humour, character development... I don't know what else you're looking for.


P.S.: Another important fact about the MitD is that it fears tortoises! Perhaps now we will finally discover it's true identity!!

[dish]

whats the purpose of throwing someone into a pit of angry tortoises?

I guess if you wanted them to be chomped very, very slowly a pit of angry tortoises might be useful?

[gorknmork]

Another MitD strip? LET THE RUMOR MILL BEGIN!

[Ancalagon]

Another MitD strip? LET THE RUMOR MILL BEGIN!

You are too late, I already asked a question/made a speculation on page 1 of this thread. ;)

[silversaraph]

I'm not sure why, but the MiTD looking downward is just SO CUTE!

[Elan's Modron]

Aw man- a great new comic is up, and it just happens to be my birthday today! Truly, I'm gonna have a great year...

I love the MitD, esp. now that the Wizard has given him a heart, a brain, and some courage, as it were.

This comic also brings the funny several time over ('teleporking,' and "How can he be safe if no one checked his shoes?", etc.) while also being truly touching - MitD's concern over his bestest friend ever, O-Chul. Aw.

What a great b-day present!:smallcool::smallsmile:

[DoctorIllithid]

Finally, back to Team Evil. Thought this day would never come.:smallbiggrin:

[Elan's Modron]

Monster-san teleporked O-Chul. This sounds like a plot point in one of the more hurried Crack-Pairings.

HA!!!!! Good one!

[Helanna]

Aw man- a great new comic is up, and it just happens to be my birthday today! Truly, I'm gonna have a great year...

I love the MitD, esp. now that the Wizard has given him a heart, a brain, and some courage, as it were.

This comic also brings the funny several time over ('teleporking,' and "How can he be safe if no one checked his shoes?", etc.) while also being truly touching - MitD's concern over his bestest friend ever, O-Chul. Aw.

What a great b-day present!:smallcool::smallsmile:

Heeey, same here! I was extremely happy when I logged on and got a comic for a present!

I love the MitD, I hope we start seeing more of him. He's so cute being worried about O-Chul!

[Blas_de_Lezo]

Thank you Giant! :smallsmile:

[Rotipher]

I guess if you wanted them to be chomped very, very slowly a pit of angry tortoises might be useful?

Or maybe the MitD doesn't know what a tortoise is, and was actually thinking of something more dangerous.

[Elan's Modron]

All the best people have January 17th birthdays. :smallwink:
I'm guessing all the coolest people in the OotS-verse do too...

[Darth Hunterix]

Well, Dukon perfectly knows what trees are and that is why he is so afraid of them. Maybe MitD knows about tortoises much more than we...

[Allan Surgite]

Fifth Panel, one of the roaches says "Egress." That is a spell used in EQ to port to a safe spot in the zone.
It's also a spell in Shining Force II which allows you to teleport into the last church you visited :O

Anyhow, this strip provides much humour (and cuts around a somewhat boring segment of the story for the OotS), as well as MitD attempting to be "scientific," as well having no idea how magic works. Also; he can leave the box himself?:smallconfused:

Nice to see that the demon roaches still hate O-Chul for killing one of their own~

[Rotipher]

They seem to take the "Escape" from the Monster as some sort of order. Apparently, they wanted to leave but could only do that once they got told (ordered?) by the monster to do so.

Or they were only hanging around in the first place because they found MitD's interaction with the hobgoblin hilarious. Once the hobo left, they had no reason to stay; the MitD's remark simply gave them an opportunity to make wisecracks while leaving.

[Gift Jeraff]

Poor MITD! I think that Strip 700 will feature Tiamat or the Linear Guild... Hope it's the Guild (Seriously, what have they been doing this whole while?)

Whenever we get back to the Linear Guild, I hope we see them in action. They've been absent for too long for us to just see them scheming or whatever.

[Athaniar]

Meh, don't really care much for the MitD, and this was obvious filler. Hope something really awesome happens in #700 (hope it's Tiamat).

[Draxonicar]

Hehe, Roaches rock, as always

[Leliel]

YAY!

FILLER!

And you know what?

I'M NOT BEING SARCASTIC!

Seriously, I like the OOTS filler. It's funny.

[Zevox]

Hm, now this is interesting. Cut-away to other characters as anticipated, but to MitD instead of the guys scrying on the Order or one of the usual major non-Order characters (Xykon/Redcloak/Nale/etc).

Wait. Assume for a moment that this strip was not filler, but set-up for the next strip and a new story arc. Anyone else see an obvious story it would be setting up? And an obvious, long-anticipated, extremely major event Rich could planning to start it with in strip #700?

Could easily be wrong, but... well, I think at this point it could actually be right, too.

Zevox

[Belkster11]

Hm, now this is interesting. Cut-away to other characters as anticipated, but to MitD instead of the guys scrying on the Order or one of the usual major non-Order characters (Xykon/Redcloak/Nale/etc).

Wait. Assume for a moment that this strip was not filler, but set-up for the next strip and a new story arc. Anyone else see an obvious story it would be setting up? And an obvious, long-anticipated, extremely major event Rich could planning to start it with in strip #700?

Could easily be wrong, but... well, I think at this point it could actually be right, too.

Zevox

I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. We've come to a good spot to pause in the Gate Searching arc with the OotS. Now it's MitD's turn. :D

[Klose_the_Sith]

Totally worth being up at 3 AM if OOTS is gonna update :smallbiggrin:

[Mant]

Filler strip. A prelude?

Another *insert something* which will slower the pace of the main quest?

[silvadel]

Yeah but the orange goblin doesnt want to escape....

[Soterion]

Okay, now I'm working on homebrewing Epic Spell: Telepork.

[Zxo]

Aw. I didn't expect MitD to remember O-Chul, miss him and worry about him. Nice character development here. (Do you think MitD mentioning the Planes is a hint?)

[Geno9999]

Same goes for carry-on: it's the luggage you bring with you on the plane, which is also checked for dangerous nailclippers, fishhooks and waterbottles :smallyuk:
Pssh, what's so dangerous about nailclip-ahhhhh!!!

Yeah, GitP makes the best Filler strips ever.

[derfenrirwolv]

Stupid question, but what are the demon roaches referencing in the last panel?

In the last panel?

MOnster: Escape!

THe demon roach takes it as a command, and uses it as an excuse to get away from the idiocy of MOnstersan.

The other one leaves with him and says wait up.

[Ron Miel]

YAY!

FILLER!

And you know what?

I'M NOT BEING SARCASTIC!

Seriously, I like the OOTS filler. It's funny.

Why do people keep thinking it's filler? I'm thinking it's the start of several strips detailing the search for the phylactery.

[factotum]

It's interesting that the MitD apparently now realises he had something to do with O-Chul's escape...back in the strip where it actually happened he didn't seem to realise that; he asked the demon roaches "Why is everyone looking at me?" after Xykon screamed out "Who stole my kills?".

[Morty]

It's interesting that the MitD apparently now realises he had something to do with O-Chul's escape...back in the strip where it actually happened he didn't seem to realise that; he asked the demon roaches "Why is everyone looking at me?" after Xykon screamed out "Who stole my kills?".

Perhaps he listened to O-Chul's advice and started thinking. After that, it wasn't hard to figure it out.

[Darth Hunterix]

It's interesting that the MitD apparently now realises he had something to do with O-Chul's escape...back in the strip where it actually happened he didn't seem to realise that; he asked the demon roaches "Why is everyone looking at me?" after Xykon screamed out "Who stole my kills?".

Don't you think he was just pretending that it wasn't him? A few panels later he "convinced" Xykon that he was asleep during the entire combat. He is aware that Xykon would be mad at him for helping O-Chul and V escape.

[DSCrankshaw]

"Escape Clause". Oh linguistic references :smallsmile:

General Linguistic Rationale

In its simplest form, a clause is just a subject and its associated verb. In English, this often leads to an incomplete sentence, or an incomplete thought. E.G: Jack threw... [some object]

Here's a clause that represents a complete, if simple, thought: Jack read.

There's another kind of clause that Rich might be hinting to. You can have more complex clauses that are subordinate, or internally dependent upon, another clause or sentence.

Examples:
Jack picked up the spoon, and [he ate all of his soup].

Jack started [cramming for an exam].
I think this second example counts as a subordinate clause, even though its in passive voice, i.e. the exam itself isn't doing the cramming.

- The words in parentheses would be the subordinate clause.



I think you're looking in the wrong place. It's not a linguistic term, it's a legal one.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_clause):

An escape clause is any clause, term or condition in a contract that allows a party to that contract to avoid having to perform the contract.
Which I could see having some story relevance, if you consider MitD's service to Xykon a contract (although it doesn't seem to me that he ever actually agreed to do so, as much as going along with it).

[Roderick_BR]

Ironically, the MitD is a bit smarter than everyone thinks, as he suspects it was him that did the teleport, and is trying to see if it works again. Trying and error.

[Kieran Cage]

So how long will it be before someone's sig starts including "Chief Teleporker of the MitD fan club" or something to that effect?

I know, I came up with it, but I'm not doing it. Teleporking just gives me an uneasy feeling.

Plus my sig is already crowded enough as it is.

[Ron Miel]

One interesting thing, Redcloak's face isn't shown. Maybe this is to hide some detail until a surprise reveal. Perhaps he's secretly grown his eye back, but is concealing it.

[Tao the Ninja]

So how long will it be before someone's sig starts including "Chief Teleporker of the MitD fan club" or something to that effect?

I know, I came up with it, but I'm not doing it. Teleporking just gives me an uneasy feeling.

Plus my sig is already crowded enough as it is.

Ooh! Dibs! Dibs!DIBS!

[Omergideon]

First off I have to say yay for the presence of a new strip. I think that with it up I will have a reminisce about the desert mini arc thus far. But before that I want to review the strip. Now at first glance, and second and third, it seems to resemble not much more than simple filler/stage setting. However there is a significance to the strip that I will address below.

The Good:
1) The opening panel. It and the whole first line is a great introduction to the strip and a strong opening moment to this upcoming storyline. It is always preferrable to have a good beginning to hook us in and this really does that well. In media res I think is the term when we enter a scene halfway through. Wether this applies or not the fact that we have such sparse dialogue works in the jokes favour.
2) The continuity call backs. These are very lovely small moments that I love to see in any strip. In this one in particular the small moments such as seeing Redcloak's eye patch string, and the references of the demon roaches to O'Chul are quite nice indeed.
3) The jokes themselves are very funny. Now I am not someone who enjoys laughing at the stupidity of others. That is, I don't find it funny when someone experiences bad luck or their foolish nature is used as the punchline. I often find the "Elan is stupid" jokes somewhat tedious for this reason. With the MitD however the giant is managing to tread the fine line of drawing humour from his naive and dim nature without using it as the punchline. The skill to do that impresses me. Along with the this the jokes themselves, like the plane joke, are quite funny as well. Not roar out loud laughter funny but highly enjoyable.
4) The tone of the comic as a whole is very good. now personally I love the MitD as a character greatly and so his presence is always a boost. But for me he brings a lightness of tone to the comic that helps it relax without falling into sillyness. So having MitD present is good in and of itself. He is just such a sweet character that I cannot help but enjoy his appearances. And having him refer to O'Chul as his best friend is just lovely and so sweet, like Elan at his best. The childlike nature of this person just makes me smile.
5) Finally, this strip is not filler. Much as the greater portion of the OoTS mini-arc was in my mind about setting up and exploring the reunited party dynamics this strip begins to explore the impact of the Darth V episode on the characters in team evil. Beginning with the MitD. It is a sign of immense character development for him that he is actively investigating his abilities now. He clearly has realised that he is responsible for saving his friend and wants to know how. Plus his acknowledgement of O'Chul as "my best friend ever" is a sign of his attitudes to team evil changing. He is actively keeping his involvement in V and O'Chul's escape from them and working in a real way against Xykon (minor as it may be). Truly an important future plot hook if nothing else.

The Bad:
1) After so long with the fantastic and colourful desert scenes being so beautifully rendered the Azure City dungeon looks drab and uninteresting by comparison. The work is still effective enough but it lacks the verve that helped make the previous arc so good to look at. Limits what they are I get why this is so but it is still a relative weakness.
2) Introductory strips are often tricky as they have less to build on and no clear momentum. And this strip, whilst interesting and insightful, has no clear momentum. It happens and it is hard to see how it builds on to anything more. The final panel too is no climax which I am certain is intentional but when viewing the strip in isolation it acts as a weakness. Of course for this strip it is NOT supposed to be seen this way, at least less so than other strips but I still say the end could be more directed or stronger.

So here we have it. We have switched back to team evil in Azure city. Potentially anything could happen. We could see life for the goblins soon, we could look at the resistance or team peregrine. We could look at Xykon's search. All that is possible. But this strip is not mere placeholding or filler. It is an introduction to a changed team evil. The MitD here is quite different to the one we met before O'Chul and that is going to be vitally important to the future of the comic IMO. A clear 4 star strip for great characterisation including the return of the sweetest and nicest person to ever work for the bad guys. in short I enjoyed it.

[Teddy]

One interesting thing, Redcloak's face isn't shown. Maybe this is to hide some detail until a surprise reveal. Perhaps he's secretly grown his eye back, but is concealing it.

We se a band behind his ear. Could it perhaps be an... hmm... eyepatch? :smallwink:


Ooh! Dibs! Dibs!DIBS!

Don't forget the TM! It's trademarked now!

[rewinn]

Well, Dukon perfectly knows what trees are and that is why he is so afraid of them. Maybe MitD knows about tortoises much more than we...

Maybe the Teevo showed The killer tortoise Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul0gfCyeiyM)?



... the Azure City dungeon looks drab and uninteresting...
Interior decoration is a barred school for jailers.

[Hyoumu Yau]

Aw. I didn't expect MitD to remember O-Chul, miss him and worry about him.

Well I wasn't thinking much about it, but now that I think back I am very sure that I did. Right after the moment the MitD called him by his real name:smallwink:


Don't you think he was just pretending that it wasn't him? A few panels later he "convinced" Xykon that he was asleep during the entire combat. He is aware that Xykon would be mad at him for helping O-Chul and V escape.

Second that. Although I prefer factotums theory that he didn't realize it at the beginning.


Perhaps he listened to O-Chul's advice and started thinking. After that, it wasn't hard to figure it out.

Let's hope that this is true:smallsmile: Maybe the MitD will join the good side later in the story:smallbiggrin:


So how long will it be before someone's sig starts including "Chief Teleporker of the MitD fan club" or something to that effect?

:smallbiggrin: Good one. Have a hug from my half-orc, who is now in my signature. (Man, that really worked better when he was my avatar:smallannoyed: And I doubt that someone would like to hug a fireball-like-thing-creating, elf-who-looks-halflingish-guy.)

[SaintRidley]

One interesting thing, Redcloak's face isn't shown. Maybe this is to hide some detail until a surprise reveal. Perhaps he's secretly grown his eye back, but is concealing it.

That would just negate the entire meaning of his losing his eye. I take it you haven't read Start of Darkness?

[Kieran Cage]

Ooh! Dibs! Dibs!DIBS!

LOL! Good on you, Tao. Wear it with pride :)

[Strawberries]

A switch to team evil! I've been looking forward to that for some time :smallbiggrin:.

The monster in the darkness is very sweet....he just wants to know if his friend is all right. That made me smile.
And the "teleporking" joke made me chuckle. Good job, but I want to know what happened to Xykon's phylactery!

[Evaine]

Yay! New OOTS for my birthday! Tyvm! :smallbiggrin:

[RickDaily12]

hee hee... this is why I LOVE the MitD....:smallbiggrin:

Although now I'm even MORE confused on what he is... Didn't Rich say in his commentaries that it defintely WAS a DnD Creature...? Who does THAT?

Direct order... *snickers*:smalltongue:

[Teddy]

hee hee... this is why I LOVE the MitD....:smallbiggrin:

Although now I'm even MORE confused on what he is... Didn't Rich say in his commentaries that it defintely WAS a DnD Creature...? Who does THAT?

Direct order... *snickers*:smalltongue:

No, he said that he wasn't a creature he made up.

[Lerky]

who wants to bet that omic 700 is mitds...ESCAPE!!!

[Blaznak]

Oooooh! Forboding-y~!

Oh, yeah. Go Vikings!

[Lupy]

Who cares, Redcloak is back! :biggrin:

Cowboys > Vikings.

[BatRobin]

Someone said it on page 1...

2009 copyright???

[Strawberries]

2) MitD has also picked up certain deviousness from Team Evil, "Oh yeah, he gave me a direct order."

But Readcloak gave him a direct order to "bother someone else"...which is exactly what MitD is doing! No deviousness needed! :smalltongue:

[npc revolution]

IMO team evil would be a great team to follow for the next few strips. It would show us some more of the MITD's development and Xykon getting his groove phylactery back, and the oots can get on with the relatively repetitive task of searching all the towns.
there's my two cents worth anyhow.

NPC

[The MunchKING]

I think you're looking in the wrong place. It's not a linguistic term, it's a legal one.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_clause):

Which I could see having some story relevance, if you consider MitD's service to Xykon a contract (although it doesn't seem to me that he ever actually agreed to do so, as much as going along with it).

Dang it!! I was going to say that!! :smalltongue:

[The Blackbird]

"Quick someone trademark teleporking!"
Loved this line.
Though appearently we went back in time because the trademark at the bottom says 2009...

[Xorbon]

Good comic! It made me laugh a few times. :smallbiggrin:

I don't understand why some people are complaining about this "filler" comic. It's good character development for the monster. Does every comic have to advance the plot? I swear if it was up to some people, there would be no side quests or sub-plots, and the story would be done already.

And that would be bad, because then we would get no more Order of the Stick comics to read. :smallannoyed:

[brionl]

Fifth Panel, one of the roaches says "Egress." That is a spell used in EQ to port to a safe spot in the zone.


Maybe you should get a dictionary and look up the word "Egress".

[Boogastreehouse]

Or maybe the MitD doesn't know what a tortoise is, and was actually thinking of something more dangerous.

"Tortoise? What's that?"

"You know what a turtle is?"

"Of course."

"Same thing."

[ShippoWildheart]

Poor MITD. No one wants to listen to him. Clearly he needs another friend to play with.






Teleporking.

I LIKE IT!

[Mr. Pin]

I'm so confuzzled... Not even the demonroaches can make me laugh anymore. What kind of Universe is it when even the MitD, the roaches, and a random hobgoblin soldier can't make you laugh?

DAMN YOU, RICH BURLEW, YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO BE SIDE- SPLITTINGLY FUNNY EVERY TIME YOU WRITE A COMIC STRIP! STRIPS THAT ADVANCE THE PLOT IN SUBTLE WAYS, CONTRIBUTE TO OUR KNOWLEDGE OF CHARACTERS, OR SET UP A GREAT STRIP IN THE FUTURE ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!!1

[werik]

Great strip! I love the Monster in the Darkness. I don't know if it's been mentioned, but the copyright date is for last year.

[JonestheSpy]

You know, I was under the impression that the MitD didn't realize that he was the one who teleported O-Chul and V away. There was that "What are you all looking at ME like that?" line at the end of #661, but he's obviously figured it out since then...

[HeseMCMXCI]

I think you're looking in the wrong place. It's not a linguistic term, it's a legal one.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_clause):

Which I could see having some story relevance, if you consider MitD's service to Xykon a contract (although it doesn't seem to me that he ever actually agreed to do so, as much as going along with it).

Well, who says it can't be both? It wouldn't be the first time we get double-entedres in OotS :smallsmile:

[Tyrmatt]

I do always enjoy a brief trip to Team Evil.


e·gress (grs)
n.
1. The act of coming or going out; emergence.
2. The right to leave or go out: denied the refugees egress.
3. A path or opening for going out; an exit.
4. Astronomy The emergence of a celestial body from eclipse or occultation.


I like the last one in particular :p

[Poi Sorg]

That thing about side-splittingly funny, that... WAS a joke, pin... right? :confused:

Anyway, when I look at this new one, I'm seeing a set-up comic. Thing is, tho, it doesn't look resolvable in one comic, which is when 700 is. And I just can't even consider the notion that we're gunna have another "hey its a round number and nothing's happening strip". Altho... Maybe #700 will be like 5x size with a splash page of the "big reveal"!:wink:

Well... it'd better NOT be another "round nothing"...
:annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:

EDIT: Lol, did I actually take so long with my post that like 5 people already posted? :smalltongue:

[gosh]

I found :mitd:'s concern for O-chul very sweet. Whether or not he knew he had caused it from the beginning, he now knows (or is pretty sure) that he made O-chul 'escape'. He just doesn't know how.

While this strip may be filler, I hope there will be something dramatic involving Team Evil in the next strip.. perhaps they find the phylactery.. or perhaps they confirm that it has floated into the OCEAN.. o:

[megabyter5]

The phylactery is not in the ocean. It is in the Obligatory Sewer-Themed Labyrinth...

What if Team Peregrine find it? They have to do something sooner or later, right? Or else their introduction would be pointless, since it wasn't even a joke. I bet they'll use the OSTL to try and sneak into the palace for some reason, and they get the phylactery, and then the giant space cats start controlling them as well, and the MitD will be Haley's dad polymorphed into a tarrasque, and Mr. Scruffy will kill the Snarl just by staring at it, because he is also O-Chul, and the last panel of the last comic will be a dancing velociraptor, and everyone on the forum will forget their medication.

[ref]

okaaaaaay.

[factotum]

Don't you think he was just pretending that it wasn't him? A few panels later he "convinced" Xykon that he was asleep during the entire combat. He is aware that Xykon would be mad at him for helping O-Chul and V escape.

No, I don't think that at all. The MitD has never, not in the entire strip, shown that level of guile and cunning. What he HAS shown is a childlike innocence and an inability to grasp complicated concepts (such as the trick Redcloak pulled at Azure City--even after the explanation, MitD remained convinced that the other two skeletons were Xykon's brothers). Given that, I think it far more likely that he inadvertently used a power he didn't know he possessed; he fell asleep as a consequence of USING that power (remember, he said he was really sleepy after causing the earthquake outside Azure City); and that he's gradually come to realise what happened in the days since.

[Darth Hunterix]

Maybe he is just pretending. When you are in such deep darkness you can easily hide your face which is a great bonus for Bluff checks.
Also, ability to understand other's trick have nothing to do with doing something nasty and looking innocent after that. Even children lie when they want to escape from punishment, don't they?

[Zanaril]

Maybe the Teevo showed The killer tortoise Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul0gfCyeiyM)?

Interesting fact: tortoises aren't herbivores.

[SaintRidley]

Way I figure it 700 will be a typical comic with nobody noting its round-numberedness in-comic.

[Faramir]

*laughing* And as usual, I love the demon roaches' commentary. I swear, I think they're smarter than Xykon, sometimes.


sometimes? ;)

[One Skunk Todd]

So what's the casting time for Teleporking? 3 minutes? :) And what happens if somebody interrupts you while you're casting it? Could be messy. :P

ETA: maybe and interrupted teleporking could be called a Lorena.

[Nate the Snake]

First off, great comic. :mitd: = :biggrin:

Second, since people have been commenting on the out-of-order copyright dates: This comic must have been written last year, before the 2010 comics. The Giant probably keeps filler comics handy for when he needs/wants them and doesn't necessarily write all the non-filler comics in the same order he posts them.

[Tricksy Hobbits]

The 2009 thing could be because it was filler written in 2009 and Rich did not know if or when he would use it.

Arrg, Damn ninja's!

[Crystalline]

I want to shine a flashlight on the MITD and just give him a hug. nice to see the new perspective change, back to team evil to see what they've been up to. :smallsmile:

[Sijo]

If this is a fill-in strip, it's actually more interesting than EVERYTHING else in the current arc so far. We got to see the MitD again, find out he misses O-Chul and is trying to get him back. My only problem is, how does MitD know about planes and security checks? yeah I know, comic strip logic, that annoys me. But at least it was funny. A little.

Quite honestly, I wouldn't mind it if the next few strips focused on people other than the Order. I just find the desert trek boring. On the other hand, I hope it's not Team Evil, MitD is the only one of them I can stand.

Oh and I'm not expecting anything special for #700, I don't think that's Rich's style.

[rewinn]

The 2009 thing could be because it was filler written in 2009 and Rich did not know if or when he would use it.
I wouldn't call it filler but rather a lead-in to another part of the story. A lead-in which BTW tells us quite a lot about MiTD's character development.

Alternatively, the "2009" could be just another part of Girard's epic illusion defenses. Look how it's distracted the forum; imagine its impact on the characters actually IN the comic!!!

Interesting fact: tortoises aren't herbivores.

So MitD would have no reason to fear giant tortoises if MitD were a plant. This pretty much kills the MitD-is-an-Epic-Level-Huorn theory.

[DrivinAllNight]

I googled Telepork and this thread came up 7th in the list of results, behind US Government pork and other big Telecom pork and some body whos screen name is telepork on some beer rating website, so to all the techy geeks who know how the internet works, how do you make the Giant's Telepork come up first?
oh, and good comic, maybe soon enough MitD will gain his confidence.

And for the 2009 thingy, who cares, haven't you ever made up something you didn't use right away or didn't need just yet, cause if this had come out at the time it wouldn't have been any where near as funny as it is today, i tried putting it somewhere else but it didn't seem to fit into the flow of things like it does here. that's my 2cp anyhow.

[dogmac]

Awwww.. MITD really is caring isn't he?

It's ok, your friends are OK!

[Tobimaro]

I for one am feeling sorry for :mitd:. But once he is able to duplicate the feat that got O-Chul out, look out world! :smallwink:

[Kumo]

a pit of angry tortoises made my day XD


So, looks like Rich actually is planning something for #700, as this one is a filler strip IMO.

Maybe he'll do the gag he does where everybody expects something awesome and it turns out to be a filler.

Only without mentioning it.

[ThePhantasm]

Hmmm.... not sure what to think about this one. Definitely sub-par compared to some of the brilliance we've been used to. I can only hope it's a build-up to something really impressive!

Sub-par? This was hilarious! Why does everything have to be build up or climax?

[ThreadKiller]

MitD, YAY! Looking forward to strip 700!!!

[Forbiddenwar]

:mitd: How can he be safe if no one checks his shoes!

I love it!:smallbiggrin: I haven't laughed that hard at a OotS comic in a while.
I do have to wonder if the jpoke translated well outside of america, but, still. D*******, that was funny!

Also, Hugely important plot point in this comic.
:mitd: called Ochul is very best friend. not Redcloak, not Xykon. O-Chul. Mitd is no longer part of the Team Evil, IMO. When next :mitd: and O-Chul meet, it will be very interesting.
Also, we can see that, despite Roy's fears, Team Evil is still in Azure city.

[Wind d8/d12]

Interesting fact: tortoises aren't herbivores.
Am I missing a joke? Too much protein totally causes kidney failure and shell development problems in tortoises. Any "meat eating" land tortoise is lying to itself and living a self-destructive lifestyle. MitD could totally be a Huorn, but my money is on something nobody has ever guessed.
Edit: And maybe Giant is trying to tell us that this strip took place in the past, before the post-new years strips chronologically happened?

[Kelvin360]

I just realized 2 things:

1. MiTD is HIRO NAKAMURA! (okay that was stupid)

2. #700 will have Xykon, Redcloak, Jirix, and others searching for the phylactery and itll look almost exactly the same as the Orders search montage but with deliberate mess-ups.

Boom. Btw you have to put MitD's face on either side of it, so i claim

:mitd: Chief Teleporker of the MitD fan club :mitd:

As mine. HA!

[the_tick_rules]

Monster needs some confidence huh?

[Larkspur]

Yay, Team Evil's back! And MitD is adorable as ever.

And apparently Redcloak made himself an eye-patch. I'm kind of surprised he bothered to, actually, but it's probably easier to draw than his gruesome empty eye socket.

[Snails]

I like this comic. It actually shows character growth.

I agree that MitD would not fool anyone on purpose. He was not trying to bluff Xykon about O-Chul's escape; he really had no idea at the time.

The fact that MitD is now demonstrating an iota of mental acumen regarding O-Chul's escape demonstrates that the MitD has been so worrying over his friend that he successfully did some actual THINKING. While what we see here would not rate as much of an accomplishment even for the likes of Elan, it is a giant leap forward for MitD.

O-Chul would be pleased.

[Snails]

And apparently Redcloak made himself an eye-patch. I'm kind of surprised he bothered to, actually, but it's probably easier to draw than his gruesome empty eye socket.

Prediction...

I look forward to the day Redcloak reveals he has a perfectly healthy eye under that eyepatch...

[SaintRidley]

Prediction...

I look forward to the day Redcloak reveals he has a perfectly healthy eye under that eyepatch...


Not going to happen.

[samwich 1]

two concerns;
1: oots will become a bad webcomic with "love is the true power" as it's basis
2: Rich will be added to the no fly list for those jokes.

[Zxo]

Originally Posted by Zxo
Aw. I didn't expect MitD to remember O-Chul, miss him and worry about him.


Well I wasn't thinking much about it, but now that I think back I am very sure that I did. Right after the moment the MitD called him by his real name:smallwink:

No, I really didn't see that coming. I thought MitD would remember everything when he sees O-Chul next time, but forget about him till then. He hasn't been able to remember about the gates... and wasn't paying much attention to anything except for the present moment most of the time.

[ChowGuy]

Telepork eh? Lessee, "tele" means "at a distance" and pork - well we all know what that is. Add in the Airport references and prediction for strip #700:

Pigs will fly!

Hey, I have about as much chance of being right as anyone else. More, since it's likely that I'll out-guess Rich when... well, you know.

[factotum]

Maybe he is just pretending. When you are in such deep darkness you can easily hide your face which is a great bonus for Bluff checks.


I prefer to go with Occam's Razor on this, which implies you go for the simplest answer--which in this case is that the MitD is just as innocent and childlike as he has always appeared. If he's capable of pulling of trickery to the extent you're describing that would also imply he'd fooled O-Chul when the latter described him as "a good man". I think it would be terrible writing to have the MitD turn out to be smart and cunning after all this time.

[cyan-shine]

Ahahahahahahaha hilarious comic !!!!! :D

[Onyavar]

Ooh! Dibs! Dibs!DIBS!

[...]
Btw you have to put MitD's face on either side of it, so i claim

:mitd: Chief Teleporker of the MitD fan club :mitd:

As mine. HA!

He. Well, I'm not so ambitious. The following will do for me, maybe I get promoted later.


:mitd: Apprentice Teleporker of the MitD fan club :mitd:

Btw, I don't see this comic as filler. It IS advancing the plot, unlike all those webcomics that wished me a "merry christmas" or a "happy new year" in the last weeks fillers.

Edit: Is it normal that the signature takes some time to update?

[Mant]

Sub-par? This was hilarious! Why does everything have to be build up or climax?


Being sub-par has nothing to do with climaxes or buildups.

Move along please.

[SatyreIkon]

Experimental science, the MitD way :smallbiggrin:

[Darkhands]

since people have been commenting on the out-of-order copyright dates: This comic must have been written last year, before the 2010 comics. The Giant probably keeps filler comics handy for when he needs/wants them and doesn't necessarily write all the non-filler comics in the same order he posts them.



The 2009 thing could be because it was filler written in 2009 and Rich did not know if or when he would use it.

Or he just keeps empty strip templates with all the copyright info ready to go, and just used an old one?

[HandofShadows]

Ah, checking in with the MitD. (I never considered him part of the Team Evil, mainly because he clearly is lacking the evil part in his nature). He is really shows some interesting growth on a couple of levels. Both in trying to think and make deliberate use of his abilities. I get the feeling that his growth will play a very important part in the end of the story. The Giant seems to like Chekhov's Armoury (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle67cpn4dlu8j9) nearly as much as the Foglio's do. (And I mean this as a compliment).

[Ikialev]

I do have to wonder if the jpoke translated well outside of america, but, still.
It didn't. Also, this comic is the second time I've ever seen anyone using word 'egress'.

[silversaraph]

For those interested, TelePorking.com is still available for like eight bucks. I was going to buy it before I realized it would probably get me sued for some obscure reason.

[Z-dan]

I noticed someone mention 'Exit' being a FF spell- and therefore, I'd like to point out that Egress was a spell in Shining Force, and I believe I'm right in thinking Abscond was a spell in Everquest. So there you go *smug mode* :smallamused:

EDIT: ok, it appears Egress is a spell in Everquest too... oh well, would be nice to think Rich was a Shining Force fan...

[Fruchtkracher]

ooh come on, Mitd's concern for ochul is just sooo sweet...
i hope the two will meet again :smallsmile:

[Mr. Pin]

That thing about side-splittingly funny, that... WAS a joke, pin... right? :confused:



yes. yes it was.

[Adeptus]

Poor MitD :sigh:

[Kieran Cage]

So what does it say when a "filler" comic in OotS manages to be more entertaining than many main-plot-arc entries in other webcomics (no names will be mentioned)?

Rarely has filler material been as chuckle-inducing.

[Connor Darkdart]

Am I the only one that thought that Abscond was a reference to MSPA.com? Maybe its just me and my nerdy ways but...

[Boogastreehouse]

To all of you that are suggesting that Rich got the word "egress" from one video game or another, I just want to make sure you're aware that "egress" is another word for "exit." (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/egress)

Not a commonly-used one, granted. In fact P.T. Barnum took advantage of the fact that many people were unfamiliar with the word, as can be seen in this amusing little story (http://www.ptbarnum.org/egress.html).

[Zanaril]

Am I the only one that thought that Abscond was a reference to MSPA.com? Maybe its just me and my nerdy ways but...

Nope, I thought of that too. :smalltongue:

[Z-dan]

To all of you that are suggesting that Rich got the word "egress" from one video game or another, I just want to make sure you're aware that "egress" is another word for "exit." (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/egress)

Not a commonly-used one, granted. In fact P.T. Barnum took advantage of the fact that many people were unfamiliar with the word, as can be seen in this amusing little story (http://www.ptbarnum.org/egress.html).

I'm fully aware of what the word 'egress' means- I have an A-level in English :smalltongue: but the fact the demon roaches are the ones who say both egress and abscond, and that abscond is a slightly unusual word to use in this context, I'd say it's pretty much confirmed that it's a reference to Everquest. Still, this argument could go on for a while without Word of God to confirm.

[Connor Darkdart]

I'm fully aware of what the word 'egress' means- I have an A-level in English :smalltongue: but the fact the demon roaches are the ones who say both egress and abscond, and that abscond is a slightly unusual word to use in this context, I'd say it's pretty much confirmed that it's a reference to Everquest. Still, this argument could go on for a while without Word of God to confirm.

I'm sorry, but I continue to think of abscond as a MS Paint Adventures reference. Truly Word Of God will be the only answer here.

[Zevox]

I'm fully aware of what the word 'egress' means- I have an A-level in English :smalltongue: but the fact the demon roaches are the ones who say both egress and abscond, and that abscond is a slightly unusual word to use in this context, I'd say it's pretty much confirmed that it's a reference to Everquest. Still, this argument could go on for a while without Word of God to confirm.
The fact that a word is unusual or obscure doesn't mean it's a reference to something. Rich has a pretty good size vocabulary - he even mentioned in commentary to Dungeon Crawlin' Fools that part of the reason he created Vaarsuvius is because he likes writing things in unnecessarily complex ways. To quote him: "There's a certain humor to be found in phrasing a simple concept in the most byzantine way imaginable, and V fills that role perfectly."

Zevox

[Zexion]

Best comic so far! (other than the mistaken king)

[Ertier]

Bravo. Touching, yet funny.

[EyethatBinds]

Strange that people keep using the terms "interesting", "insightful", and "funny" to describe this strip.

Honestly, if Mr. Burlew wanted to he could change the book into a novel or script with all the lack of action that has pervaded the last thirty strips or so and basically lose nothing. He's not even trying to hide his wall of text syndrome in most comics and when he attempts to use humor now it feels overly forced and needlessly redundant.

Using synonyms for teleporting is a pretty weak joke to go from and once again the comic continues after the closest thing to a punchline for another two panels.

Not everything this guy writes is gold folks and honestly it is a little sad to see his comic turn from pure comedy, to a halfway interesting story with comedy, to a complete cluster**** of meandering plots with the characters spouting trivial and pointless dialog that goes exactly nowhere.

[Forbiddenwar]

Honestly, if Mr. Burlew wanted to he could change the book into a novel or script with all the lack of action that has pervaded the last thirty strips or so and basically lose nothing. e.

Rich IS writing a novel. What's sad is that few playgrounders realize it. If you don't want to read his novel, one page at a time, then there is only one solution for you. Stop reading. Because nothing you say or do will stop Rich from writing his novel.

Edit: Sure, Rich could have done the timing of the last two panels better. You're right there. If this was a comic strip, it would be pretty important to end on a joke, but since it is just a page in a novel, it is less important.

[k_bukie]

Strange that people keep using the terms "interesting", "insightful", and "funny" to describe this strip.

Honestly, if Mr. Burlew wanted to he could change the book into a novel or script with all the lack of action that has pervaded the last thirty strips or so and basically lose nothing. He's not even trying to hide his wall of text syndrome in most comics and when he attempts to use humor now it feels overly forced and needlessly redundant.

Using synonyms for teleporting is a pretty weak joke to go from and once again the comic continues after the closest thing to a punchline for another two panels.

Not everything this guy writes is gold folks and honestly it is a little sad to see his comic turn from pure comedy, to a halfway interesting story with comedy, to a complete cluster**** of meandering plots with the characters spouting trivial and pointless dialog that goes exactly nowhere.

It's strange that everyone with a different opinion from you is wrong.

[gosh]

Using synonyms for teleporting is a pretty weak joke to go from and once again the comic continues after the closest thing to a punchline for another two panels.

I dunno, I found the 'airplane' jokes pretty funny, and the MitD's concern for O-chul is sweet, as is his trying to figure out how his 'teleporking' works.

[Scorpions__]

@EyeThatBinds

Seriously man, give the guy some credit, he's writing the best, longest, and most encompassing D&D comic ever, with stick people. Simultaneously Rich is blending great comedy with character development, and an intricate plot. And most impressively he's using clichès with such class that it's hard to believe they're clichès at all.

I think the boys from Erfworld put it best when they stated how long it takes for a webcomic to unfold and how each individual strip gets analyzed for days in between. And us playgrounders like it that way. I would've thought any reader would have the patience to wait for action -- when it's the moment for it. -- and comedy -- when it's time for it -- after 700 strips of plot-weaving.

We like the stories to meander a bit you know? We've got Team Evil, Team Peregrine, The Order of the Stick, The IFCC, Belkar's prophecy, Xykon's phylactery, The Linear Guild, Roy's Archon, and many more tales that we're watching unfold. If it takes Rich a couple hundred strips to explain, that's okay, the extra character development and plot exposition is there to enjoy, especially when they come out in books (by the way, are we to expect a deluxe shiny, box-set with extra goodies when it's all... all over?). You know, if you don't have the patience to endure a little filler once in a while, go watch a movie.

I for one enjoyed the exposition and clues on the MitD, and the hints of an eyepatch, as well as seeing our favourite little roaches. And I whole-heartedly anticipate the next set of laughs and action in Mr. Burlew's "ongoing masterpiece."




DM[F]R

[Scorpions__]

¡ With Stick People !

[k_bukie]

Seriously, has there ever been a point in this comic where there wasn't some incensed person complaining that things were "moving too slow"? The side quest after Dorukan's tower, the trek to Azure City, the trial (oh man, the trial), Cliffport, the war (I mean, the war really dragged on...), Roy in the afterlife, checking on Elan and Durkon, checking on Haley and Belkar, waiting for the group to get back together, and now impatience with the group in the desert.

If it's not a part of the story, it's people bickering over an ongoing plot point that hasn't been solved quickly enough for their liking.

The thing about this comic, though? If you jump in late, it's going to seem slow once you catch up to the story. That's just part of the random updates. Sure, the first 50 or so strips were simpler, one-shot comic strips for the most part, but the Giant decided to make an epic story about it. Any good story teller is going to take time to develop characters, settings, and plot points in full rather than just blow through them like an automatic clip.

Even in this "filler" strip, there's character development on the part of the Monster and a teaser for Redcloak. I thought the timing on the "Oh yeah, he gave me a direct order" bit was great, personally, and the repeated attempts to fix a problem are right in character with a childlike monster that has a lot of time on his hands and really wants to figure out what's going on, but has nobody to help him figure things out.

[BillyJimBoBob]

Rich IS writing a novel. What's sad is that few playgrounders realize it. If you don't want to read his novel, one page at a time, then there is only one solution for you. Stop reading. Because nothing you say or do will stop Rich from writing his novel.

Edit: Sure, Rich could have done the timing of the last two panels better. You're right there. If this was a comic strip, it would be pretty important to end on a joke, but since it is just a page in a novel, it is less important.

No. Rich is writing a web comic. At best it could be called a graphic novel. Rich himself doesn't call it a novel, as is made clear by the large font "Comics" link along the left hand side of the site. What's sad is that some playgrounders can't call a thing by the same name as its creator. Your poor classification aside, if Rich isn't censuring critical posts, and has established an open forum where those opinions can be made public on his own turf, why do you feel the need to censure them? How about this: If you don't care to read posts critical of one or another aspect of any given strip or the entire thing, then there is only one solution for you. Stop reading the forums. Does that seem to share a lot with your own advice? And doesn't it make your own advice seem just a little ridiculous?

[Scorpions__]

No, this is a Discussion Thread, not a forum to insult Rich and his fans. We're simply defending Rich from any sort of uncalled-for disparaging of his work.




DM[F]R

[SaintRidley]

Way I see it, this is pretty much a definitive case of a graphic novel. This story is a novel in its scope and makes full use of the comic medium. This is a long-form plot in development. We get to see it as it is put together. Not after the fact.

We don't get this luxury with novels. We don't get novels released to us one page at a time. Imagine if Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings or any major print novel came out one page at a time. Those individual pages aren't much by themselves. They only work with the following pages to continue on.

While individual strips here might not work as well on their own, and while we might be complaining that nothing's happening, we need to keep in mind that these strips are like individual pages of a novel. Furthermore, at the beginning of the current book, we had such a surefire setup going in. They knew where the gate was. They knew what they were likely to run into. That it took them a while to make it to their location and that it has turned out to be a bust is good drama and good storytelling. You don't make an interesting story by having things go perfectly for the protagonists. If you think it does, then I suggest you stay away from storytelling in all its forms because it will all do this. It won't feel as bad because it won't take you several months to read that first chapter or two, but the elements are there.

If the pace of the comic coming online bugs you, wait until it comes out as a book so you can get the story in a more traditional format. The serialised comic format is not right for you if you can't keep the bigger picture in mind at this early stage in the book.

[Conuly]

Not everything this guy writes is gold folks and honestly it is a little sad to see his comic turn from pure comedy, to a halfway interesting story with comedy, to a complete cluster**** of meandering plots with the characters spouting trivial and pointless dialog that goes exactly nowhere.

So don't read it. I'm not saying this as a criticism, but as a bit of self-help advice - if you don't like it, stop wasting your time reading it, and everybody else's time telling them that they're wrong for liking it when you don't. Go watch some TV, go take a nap, go write a thesis, go on a date with Mrs. Palm - or a real date for all *I* care. Go enjoy yourself. (Unless kvetching *is* how you enjoy yourself, in which case... seriously?)


Rich himself doesn't call it a novel, as is made clear by the large font "Comics" link along the left hand side of the site. What's sad is that some playgrounders can't call a thing by the same name as its creator.

No reason it can't be both. And anyway, I could call a dog a cat - I could call *my* dog a cat, or yours, or anybody else's - but that doesn't make it so. (And there's nothing wrong with writing a comic at a slower pace if that's what suits the story. The people who like it will read it, and the people who don't - unless they're trying to make themselves unhappy, which seems deliberately perverse to me - won't.)

[BillyJimBoBob]

No, this is a Discussion Thread, not a forum to insult Rich and his fans.This is indeed a forum. Rich's forum. And again, if he sees no reason to censure criticism, then you shouldn't feel the need to, either. I understand hero worship, but you're taking it to the ugliest of extremes. If Rich hasn't asked you to defend him, why do you assume that you need to do so?


We're simply defending Rich from any sort of uncalled-for disparaging of his work.No. You are reading criticism, and then you, not we, are making the decision that it is "uncalled-for" or an "insult." And yet once again, this forum is not yours, and if Rich (or his designated moderators) doesn't roll in with hellfire and fury and smite the wicked, then why should you think that it is your place to decide what is "uncalled-for disparaging" and what is simply....criticism? If criticism were not allowed here, then you could simply report the post which so offended you and leave it at that. It would be erased by the mods, and that would be it. So go for it. Or, stop reading the forums if you can't stand to read criticism. Because I'm pretty sure that I've seen some in every "New strip is up" thread, since day 1.

[Scorpions__]

Awe, but you've missed my point entirely. I was stating that this is a forum for discussion of the strips, by title. Eyethatbinds was intentionally disparaging Rich's work.





DM[F]R

[grinner666]

May I just take a pause from the rancor of the moment to say that I love the MitD and his naive innocence, and will never, ever object to any page that includes him?

And that I hope he, too, ends up with a happy ending?

:smallsmile:

[Scorpions__]

I gotta agree. Whatever conflict might arise.

I love the MitD. Rooting for his reunion with Mr. Stiffly.






DM[F]R

[lee7pwnage]

I'll start by saying that everyone is entitled to their opinions, and nobody is necessarily right or wrong. We all like different things - some like the action strips, some like the slow, conversational events - and neither is right or wrong.

But...

The one thing I will take exception to is the "it's stick figures" argument. Having made some OOTS style figures in InDesign for the D&D players I play with, I can tell you that it is harder than it looks.

Download Adobe Illustrator (what the Giant uses). It's free for 30 days from Adobe's Web site, go try it! Make a single figure. Make him in several poses. Confused by vector-line illustration yet? Read up on it, run some Google searches.

Well, it seems we have our man, but he's got nothing to say on a white backdrop. Make a backdrop with the level of detail the Giant uses. Make it a hallway at first - I still can't get to the point where I can make an entire town.

Better give the dude some dialog. Hmm, guess you have to make the text bubble too. OH wow, the dialog is having a hard time fitting the box. Better adjust everything so it fits neatly. Run a spell check too, and make sure the dialog is at least snappy and concise.

Now make your character do something for an entire page, like the OOTS does. Might want some other characters to converse with. Or a monster for your guy to fight. Make sure they're all still fairly unique, the resist to simply copy and paste is kinda overwhelming.

How far did your plot move forward? Are your characters dynamic and interesting?

Now do this a thousand or so times (699 comics, but some are multi-pagers), and see if your plot is still generally interesting and funny. And do it in public, so the readers can comment, speculate, and even criticize you at every turn.

Let me know how that works out for you.

ON TOPIC: The MITD never ceases to amuse me, and I'm REALLY excited for seeing how this plays out. It may not seem important now, but I bet it will be important later. Imagine if the MITD ever learns to harness his strength and abilities!

[Scorpions__]

Nuff said!

[Alpha01]

Awesome! Finally back to the MitD.

[Captainocaptain]

Just commenting on the surprising number of people who find it necessary to comment on the style or presentation of the comic. I thought this thread was to discuss the events unfolding in the most recent comic. Not to argue over the idiosyncrasies of the writing style or who knows what else.
Sorry, just had to get that out of my system.
*Ahem*
OMGTHEMITDISSOADORABLE!!!!!!!
Ok... I loved it. Its a nice break from the main story, and it tells us a bit about what our friends over at team evil have been doing. Hopefully this will continue, as the walking through the sand is getting kinda old. I feel this was an excellent place to deviate from the main plot and show us some of the other characters.
I dont believe any of Rich's comics are really filler (at least none after the first 100 comics) because they all contribute to the story. Filler is just nonsense to keep us entertained, this comic had purpose behind it though.
So Summary: It was an awesome comic, MiTD is adorable, please don't criticize the comic, unless it is constructive. Complaints just cheese people off. Its better this way.

[factotum]

This is indeed a forum. Rich's forum. And again, if he sees no reason to censure criticism, then you shouldn't feel the need to, either.

I personally don't have a problem with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism--stuff that says why someone thinks the comic is wrong and how it might be fixed. Of course, it's still just their opinion, but it's a lot better than a "Waaah waaaah this strip sucks", which is pretty much all that EyethatBinds had to say.

[EyethatBinds]

The one thing I will take exception to is the "it's stick figures" argument. Having made some OOTS style figures in InDesign for the D&D players I play with, I can tell you that it is harder than it looks.

Download Adobe Illustrator (what the Giant uses). It's free for 30 days from Adobe's Web site, go try it! Make a single figure. Make him in several poses. Confused by vector-line illustration yet? Read up on it, run some Google searches.

Well, it seems we have our man, but he's got nothing to say on a white backdrop. Make a backdrop with the level of detail the Giant uses. Make it a hallway at first - I still can't get to the point where I can make an entire town.

Better give the dude some dialog. Hmm, guess you have to make the text bubble too. OH wow, the dialog is having a hard time fitting the box. Better adjust everything so it fits neatly. Run a spell check too, and make sure the dialog is at least snappy and concise.

Now make your character do something for an entire page, like the OOTS does. Might want some other characters to converse with. Or a monster for your guy to fight. Make sure they're all still fairly unique, the resist to simply copy and paste is kinda overwhelming.

How far did your plot move forward? Are your characters dynamic and interesting?

Now do this a thousand or so times (699 comics, but some are multi-pagers), and see if your plot is still generally interesting and funny. And do it in public, so the readers can comment, speculate, and even criticize you at every turn.

Let me know how that works out for you.

Actually, I am well familiar with Adobe Illustrator and I do know that it takes time to make characters. However, the templates that a smart user of the program can make for their characters are easy to cut and paste and most of Rich's latest comics are 90% recycled material.

I certainly don't begrudge him for using his art but his writing has become more akin to a novel, or rather suffers from endless use of wall of text.

The latest comic, knowing that Rich already has the backgrounds, characters, and no action taking place apart from one creature walking away would probably only take about two hours of work. Considering the quality of the writing of this comic, I would be a little surprised that more than a half hour was put into writing it.

The reason I am being critical is because I've been reading the comic since the early 200s. I enjoy webcomics. I even enjoy ones that move at a much slower pace when they are fully laid out in the fullness of time. Hell I read ****ing Dresden Codak and consider it good overall. The temporal slowness does irk me a little, but I know that instant work isn't rational for anyone to expect.

Just lately, I've honestly felt that Rich's writing has gone downhill and the story is just meandering to fill up more books. The desert jokes have been weak at best and he's always overstepping the punchlines or dragging them out needlessly.

It isn't to make the plot fit together either folks. What purpose does the slaver section have? Anyone saying that we just don't know is simply leaning on a crutch because, to me, it seemed entirely pointless.

I know a comic isn't easy to make, but that doesn't mean that the quality of it should steadily decline.

[Connor Darkdart]

Actually, I am well familiar with Adobe Illustrator and I do know that it takes time to make characters. However, the templates that a smart user of the program can make for their characters are easy to cut and paste and most of Rich's latest comics are 90% recycled material.

I certainly don't begrudge him for using his art but his writing has become more akin to a novel, or rather suffers from endless use of wall of text.

The latest comic, knowing that Rich already has the backgrounds, characters, and no action taking place apart from one creature walking away would probably only take about two hours of work. Considering the quality of the writing of this comic, I would be a little surprised that more than a half hour was put into writing it.

The reason I am being critical is because I've been reading the comic since the early 200s. I enjoy webcomics. I even enjoy ones that move at a much slower pace when they are fully laid out in the fullness of time. Hell I read ****ing Dresden Codak and consider it good overall. The temporal slowness does irk me a little, but I know that instant work isn't rational for anyone to expect.

Just lately, I've honestly felt that Rich's writing has gone downhill and the story is just meandering to fill up more books. The desert jokes have been weak at best and he's always overstepping the punchlines or dragging them out needlessly.

It isn't to make the plot fit together either folks. What purpose does the slaver section have? Anyone saying that we just don't know is simply leaning on a crutch because, to me, it seemed entirely pointless.

I know a comic isn't easy to make, but that doesn't mean that the quality of it should steadily decline.

So sorry, in one section you complain that the only action "is a dude walking away", and the next your complaining for a slight side story where there is oodles of action and combat, and jokes to boot? It seems to me you might be looking for a webcomic that doesn't exist, e.g. a perfect one. I know OotS isn't perfect, among other things the long time between updates grinds my gears, but I still think the Giant makes up for that. Personally at this point I would have to reccomend you sit down away from the computer, and just think for a bit, think what it is you like and dislike about OotS, because although I am all one for facilitated debate and criticism, especially in a open environ where it can be appreciated and discussed by other, at this point in time you seem to have meandering points of criticism, including that we censure the arguments.

We don't censure arguments or criticism, EyeThatBinds criticism is still there, as is your own and other forumers. However, responding to your criticism is neither censureship nor forbidden. If we see a flaw or disagree with your criticism, then we are allowed to respond to it, to deny us that right would be close minded. IF you want to complain about something and not have people contradicting you, I suggest you hire a straw man or refrain from posting on forums of any kind.

Conclusion: Arguing is not censureship, OotS has flaws but they don't remove it from one of my favourite comics, I reccomend that everyone
who has been having the debate on here goes and cools of for a while, and thinks about what they like and dislike about the comic, criticism, etc. before continuing this. Varied debate is always good.

[Mystic Muse]

It isn't to make the plot fit together either folks. What purpose does the slaver section have? Anyone saying that we just don't know is simply leaning on a crutch because, to me, it seemed entirely pointless.


The belt of giant's strength will eventually come into play.

Really though, if there haven't been at least a few other comics you consider pointless I'll be surprised.

[Senex]

I am reminded of a line from Making Money:

“One of my predecessors used to have people torn apart by wild tortoises. It was not a quick death.”
- Lord Vetinari.

[Feefers]

Hey Monster in the Darkness, You gotta believe!

[Lissou]

It always surprises me that, no matter what the strip, it seems there will always be people calling it "filler".

A "filler" is a page that's there because the author doesn't have an update. Like a drawing saying "sorry, maybe next time". Or a "Merry Christmas" update.

This update is part of the story, and if you just removed it in the books it would be missing. It tells us the MitD understood that he caused O-Chul to teleport. It's not small, I mean we're talking about the MitD. And what's more, he's trying to make sure he's okay. I think it's clear that the friendship between O-Chul and MitD has a role to play yet.

So, is it not "gaggy" enough for some people? I don't doubt that. And if it was more gag-oriented I'm sure people would be complaining that it's not advancing the plot enough.

Anyway, not telling you you're not allowed to think that, just that, from my point of view, it's just... It's like everything everyone does here is complain about stuff. It seems incredible that the Giant is still going strong rather than sighing and deciding we're not worth his story or something.

On the novel-comics thing, the way I see it, it's a series of graphic novels that are pre-published online as comics. Just like you could say a non-graphic novel is made out of pages or something.
So of course it's linking to the comics, since there is only one update per page, and not a whole graphic novel per page.
Plus, the website isn't divided by book.

We know the Giant does take both into account: that it's a graphic novel, and that it's first published online. In the commentary of DStP he states that some things wouldn't have worked posted online, which is why they're posted as added scenes in the book instead.
So he definitely keeps both in mind, which I can't imagine is easy since they wok so differently.

[Kish]

It isn't to make the plot fit together either folks. What purpose does the slaver section have? Anyone saying that we just don't know is simply leaning on a crutch because, to me, it seemed entirely pointless.

Aside from the long-ago-established "always one random encounter on the way to a new area" rule, it illustrates that Belkar thinks he's fooling everyone and he actually isn't fooling anyone, and that he genuinely seems to care about Mr. Scruffy.


I know a comic isn't easy to make, but that doesn't mean that the quality of it should steadily decline.
You're not getting it. Someone always says the quality of the comic is declining. I realize that from your perspective you're very different from all the people who have previously said things like that, but Rich should only start to worry if the number of people saying things like that is higher than it's been previously, which it isn't.

[Kumo]

It always surprises me that, no matter what the strip, it seems there will always be people calling it "filler".

A "filler" is a page that's there because the author doesn't have an update. Like a drawing saying "sorry, maybe next time". Or a "Merry Christmas" update.Filler can also mean an episode/strip that does nothing to impact the overall plot but is arranged so that it LOOKS like it does.

And tbh, i'd be worried if there wasn't somebody whining their head off about a webcomic/webseries, however good it is.

@Eye: Wow, you're right. The slaver section is so useless. It's just them randomly encountering a bunch of bug people that like to eat cats. Who would've thought something like that could happen in a DnD campaign-style comic.[/sarcasm]

[Mant]

If it's not a part of the story, it's people bickering over an ongoing plot point that hasn't been solved quickly enough for their liking.

This applies to only a fraction of the critics.
There's another and more meaningful fraction who thinks that yes, some parts were awesome, but yes, some parts were dreadfully dull. I'd add this latest desert trip to the second. So many expectations, so.... nothing thus far.


On a more general note, i laugh at people who are unable to accept that criticism may exist and feel so compelled on "defending from insults". Grow up guys.

[Aaron]

:mitd: "Escape"

Nice comic. The Mitd returns again. :smallsmile:

[Lissou]

Filler can also mean an episode/strip that does nothing to impact the overall plot but is arranged so that it LOOKS like it does.

Now, see, my point is that it seems every strip is called filler by someone.

Putting aside the fact that with your definition, most strips are filler (all the info from all these pages could be crammed into these other pages. These lines could be just dropped. Etc), it's not even a definition everyone who says "it's filler" agrees on.

To some people, something that advances the plot but has no gag is "filler".
To some people, a gag with no plot advancement is "filler".
To some people, an explanation of previous events is "filler".

So in the end, every single page seems to be filler to someone. Or, you know, almost all of them.
And it's just... weird. People don't go reading the bonus strips in compilaton saying "okay, I'm going to read the filler strips", even though technically, these are closer to being "fillers", since, you know, they're not essential at all (since non-buying readers won't get to read them) and they were put as extra pages to give people a reason to buy the books, to make the books more "full".

The Giant isn't keeping a regular schedule, therefore he doesn't need to use "fillers" because he's not quite done with the next strip but his deadline is comic up, or whatever. Anything he puts online is there because he wants it to be. It doesn't get him more money since we're not on any "pay-per-page" website, it doesn't buy him time since he's not bound to a schedule, it doesn't do any of that. He doesn't have a reason to "fill" anything.

And I know people have been complaining about it being too slow. That's how the books work, though. First half is slower, with more character development, plot development and less things being resolved, and second half is more eventful and action-full. I'm used to people complaining about that, I just don't get the word "filler" here.
I mean, by these standards, 99% of every single book is just "filler". (And by books I don't mean "oots books" I mean, you know, any books that have ever been written).

Same with movies, really. Just look at the rabbit-summaries, and all the rest was just "filler".

[Mystic Muse]

On a more general note, i laugh at people who are unable to accept that criticism may exist and feel so compelled on "defending from insults". Grow up guys.

Constructive criticism is fine. complaining it simply isn't the way you want it to be is an insult to us and the author of this comic.

to be honest the sand stripss haven't made me bored at all.

great job Giant.:smallsmile:

[Mant]

Not the "constructive criticism" escapade, please. That's used as nothing but an excuse.
It's easier to label critics as "not constructive" (upon which basis is NEVER told) thus making it look fine to demolish, rather than accepting them.
The negative feedbacks and opinions that i've read so far are understandable and well expressed.
It's just that some people feel overly defensive when not all the posts follow the "happy happy joy joy" line, and do their best to downsize either the one writing or the critics themselves.

[Cbh66]

What purpose does the slaver section have? Anyone saying that we just don't know is simply leaning on a crutch because, to me, it seemed entirely pointless.

1)Random encounter was necessary.
2)Showed progress on the part of Vaarsuvius, choosing no longer to just use the most powerful magic available to her (mostly).
3)Beatles puns were hilarious.
4)Belkar showing affection to Mr. Scruffy, and being very protective of him.
5)Belt of giant strength will likely be important.
6)Belkar's gift attracted the giant worm, facilitating their travel to the coordinates.

[Mystic Muse]

okay. here's some of the criticism and the responses you're so eager for mant


This is indeed a forum. Rich's forum. And again, if he sees no reason to censure criticism, then you shouldn't feel the need to, either. I understand hero worship, but you're taking it to the ugliest of extremes. If Rich hasn't asked you to defend him, why do you assume that you need to do so?

So, we aren't allowed to defend one of our favorite things just because the author hasn't asked us to?



No. You are reading criticism, and then you, not we, are making the decision that it is "uncalled-for" or an "insult." And yet once again, this forum is not yours, and if Rich (or his designated moderators) doesn't roll in with hellfire and fury and smite the wicked, then why should you think that it is your place to decide what is "uncalled-for disparaging" and what is simply....criticism? If criticism were not allowed here, then you could simply report the post which so offended you and leave it at that. It would be erased by the mods, and that would be it. So go for it. Or, stop reading the forums if you can't stand to read criticism. Because I'm pretty sure that I've seen some in every "New strip is up" thread, since day 1.

Criticism is nothing more than an opinion. Just as ours is that it's uncalled for.





Honestly, if Mr. Burlew wanted to he could change the book into a novel or script with all the lack of action that has pervaded the last thirty strips or so and basically lose nothing. He's not even trying to hide his wall of text syndrome in most comics and when he attempts to use humor now it feels overly forced and needlessly redundant.

First of all This pretty much IS a novel. Get over it.

The humor thing is an opinion. It doesn't make me laugh as much as some of his earlier stuff but you can't expect the author to be hilarious every single time.(earlier meaning about 300 strips ago in this case)



Using synonyms for teleporting is a pretty weak joke to go from and once again the comic continues after the closest thing to a punchline for another two panels.

You simply have a different sense of humor than most here because you're the only one arguing this.



Not everything this guy writes is gold folks and honestly it is a little sad to see his comic turn from pure comedy, to a halfway interesting story with comedy, to a complete cluster**** of meandering plots with the characters spouting trivial and pointless dialog that goes exactly nowhere.

This comic turned into a story about 580 comics ago. I'd also hardly call this story halfway interesting because he has me coming back every single day to szee if there's an update. I haven't put this much interest into a story in probably.......ever.

as for the characters spouting trivial and pointless dialogue that goes exactly nowhere. maybe you can point a page out because I can't seem to find anything.

So, any other criticism?

[HeseMCMXCI]

Constructive criticism is fine. complaining it simply isn't the way you want it to be is an insult to us and the author of this comic.

to be honest the sand stripss haven't made me bored at all.:

I didn't only not get bored about them, but I actually liked them a lot. They had good gags, they had a lot of plot advancments and character growth and we saw Belkar slay an old friend of his, which is always a plus. I actually don't see why people say that Rich is losing his grip, I have liked this story-arc a lot. And MitD, roaches and redcloack (even shortly) in one strip normally means fun, and this strip isn't an exception.

So thanks Rich:smallbiggrin:

[Mant]

-cut-
So, any other criticism?

Kyuubi, handpicking and decontestualizing parts of messages means little. Even less "proves" something or not.

[rewinn]

The argument about whether OOTS is a novel or "just a webcomic" should take into account the fact that MANY novels first appeared serialized in periodicals. "Dune" first appeared in Analog. "Ivanhoe" not only started out as a serial but, due to reader reaction, one of the side characters was miraculously discovered in one of the last chapters not to have died after all.

The parallel to webcomics and their fora is left as an exercise for the reader.

[Mystic Muse]

Kyuubi, handpicking and decontestualizing parts of messages means little. Even less "proves" something or not.

of course it doesn't prove anything. It's an opinion just like yours is and we're both entitled to our opinions. However, when our opinions are needlessly provocative they're better left unsaid.

[Mant]

I saw no opinion in that post, rather an act of decontestualization to make some handpicked comments look silly and easily questionable.
Goes the same league as the other tricks to me, to downsize some user's opinion.

Not everyone is 100% happy of how things are managed and going, let's just get over it and accept it....but on equal grounds, without all those tricks to make those opinions look silly or stupid.

[T-O-E]

Constructive criticism is fine. complaining it simply isn't the way you want it to be is an insult to us and the author of this comic.

to be honest the sand stripss haven't made me bored at all.

great job Giant.:smallsmile:

What is the difference between unconstructive criticism and unconstructive praise?
Honestly, I'd rather have my work be renounced than praised condescendingly.

[Mystic Muse]

What is the difference between unconstructive criticism and unconstructive praise?
Honestly, I'd rather have my work be renounced than praised condescendingly.

Well, I already know somebody is just going to say "it all comes down to opinion" or some such but, I'd say constructive criticism is criticism that's actually going to affect something or criticism with a legitimate grievance behind it*. I highly doubt the Giant is going to care if one or two posters don't enjoy his work.

*this is unfortunately, also subjective.

[Mant]

You, uhm, like totally missed the crux of the question:

What is the difference between unconstructive criticism and unconstructive praise?

[Gandariel]

let's put an end to this debate.
YES, THIS IS A FILLER. it FILLs a page which instead would be blank.

[Mystic Muse]

You, uhm, like totally missed the crux of the question:

What is the difference between unconstructive criticism and unconstructive praise?

apologies. I meant to respond to an earlier not so clear phrasing.

Unconstructive criticism is criticism that won't affect anything, without a legitimate grievance or just a complaint for the sake of complaining.

Unconstructive praise is praise that The author gets thoroughly tired of rather than pushing him to keep going.

That's how I'd define them at least.

[Alaska Fan]

The MITD is worried about "tortoises" or a "pit of tortoises." I wonder if our not-very-bright friend isn't confused (again).


Is the MITD confusing "tortoise" with "tarrasque"?

[t3h l3g1t m4g3]

Wow, the MitD escaping would be a pretty cool story arc.

[Gagnrad]

Strange that people keep using the terms "interesting", "insightful", and "funny" to describe this strip.

Honestly, if Mr. Burlew wanted to he could change the book into a novel or script with all the lack of action that has pervaded the last thirty strips or so and basically lose nothing. He's not even trying to hide his wall of text syndrome in most comics and when he attempts to use humor now it feels overly forced and needlessly redundant.

Using synonyms for teleporting is a pretty weak joke to go from and once again the comic continues after the closest thing to a punchline for another two panels.

Not everything this guy writes is gold folks and honestly it is a little sad to see his comic turn from pure comedy, to a halfway interesting story with comedy, to a complete cluster**** of meandering plots with the characters spouting trivial and pointless dialog that goes exactly nowhere.

Yeaahh, I feel a bit like that too, sadly. I did enjoy bits of the sapphire bit thingie, but otherwise it's been pretty slow lately.

[Barak]

So if unconstructive praise doesn't push the Giant to keep going, and if he doesn't read the forums any more, then isn't all praise unconstructive?

The fact is, criticism or praise here is not designed to sway the author in any particular direction. That would be foolish. What it is, rather, is an opportunity for us to share our thoughts and opinions on the work. All of those thoughts and opinions have some validity to them, because they are our own.

Now they may be better-supported than others and I don't think that all opinions are equally valid. But everything has a shred of validity to it.

We are discussing the story and the strip, we are not attempting to influence the giant or even the readers in any way. We are merely sharing what we believe about the current storyline. This is meant to provoke debate and discussion.

This last strip was okay. I agree that it didn't really go anywhere and it wasn't terribly funny, but I didn't have a big problem with it.

The biggest trouble I have is the "wall of words" problem, which is that there has simply been too much dialogue lately.

[Menas]

You, uhm, like totally missed the crux of the question:

What is the difference between unconstructive criticism and unconstructive praise?

One is criticism and one is praise.

[Mystic Muse]

Actually the Giant does read the forums from time to time. He's stepped in on crackpot theories several times.

[Menas]

P.S. I enjoyed the 'filler' in the latest update.

[Zevox]

Actually the Giant does read the forums from time to time. He's stepped in on crackpot theories several times.
Aye. Actually, read any of his commentary from the book compilations of the strips and you'll notice that he's quite well aware of fan reactions to his work (one comment that sticks out in my mind, for instance, was when he said that posting a page from the phone book in place of a strip would have been more popular than Miko).

Zevox

[Turkish Delight]

Yeaahh, I feel a bit like that too, sadly. I did enjoy bits of the sapphire bit thingie, but otherwise it's been pretty slow lately.

At this point, I think it's becoming more and more common to have this feeling. It's a double-whammy of a slow beginning to the arc combined with increasingly rare updates. We don't get new comics very often and when we do they advance the plot at a snail's pace, if they advance it at all.

Alas, if this keeps up, I think I may just stop worrying about OotS or this board for a few months and come back to hopefully a whole bunch of cool new comics in May. I still like it and have faith in the Giant's storytelling, I fully expect it to make a turn-around, but right now...eh.

[homeosapiens]

For some time (since comic 220 maybe) i ve been reading this webcomic and i got into it a lot. I checked for updates everyday for a long time. I did also read Erfworld updates, just becouse it was on the same page, and i was here a lot anyway. Than i also got into it, and now i am checking for their updates every day. Here i dont do it everyday since we get updates so rarely, and latest ones didnt make me so exited about next ones. Yeez, you remember V vs Xykon cliffhangers? Since 670 nothing actually happened. No drama, no excitment. Well i dont know if Giand is sick, or he got enought money from DStP, and doesnt care anymore, but it's just not the same for some time. Some time ago he said he's gonna try to give us three strips a week. Maybe he just has no inspiration now.

[Mant]

{Scrubbed}

[Hurkyl]

Drama and excitement requires buildup.

It would have been very silly if comic #671 was Roy leading a charge against Xykon and company at Girard's gate, now wouldn't it? :smalltongue:

(and not the good kind of silly -- unless it immediately went into a flashback)

[Lissou]

So if unconstructive praise doesn't push the Giant to keep going, and if he doesn't read the forums any more, then isn't all praise unconstructive?

I'd say praise is never constructive.

To e "constructive criticism" can be mostly positive, mostly negative, but by definition it has to have a bit of both. That's what make it constructive. Just saying "this strip sucks" or "this strip rocks" is equally unhelpful, although I can conceive that one might feel better than the other.

It is true though that none of us is an editor or anything of the like. The Giant isn't showing his incomplete pages and asking for our input before he finalises them. For the most part, our comments are really just for our own sake, to express our opinion.

So it might make sense that they wouldn't be incredibly insightful, and only be "hahaha, that part is classic" or "man, another filler!".
In its own right, it might be "helpful" to some extent too, since whether 90% of the people got the joke/like it, or hated it could be interesting. But it is not meant to help the Giant, and he hasn't requested any help anyways.

For all purposes, he tells his story, and either we read it or we don't.

Therefore, we reach a point when the idea of "constructive criticism" must be replaced with "respectful debate". Of course, this is always hard on a forum.

I'll contribute my own opinion, if I may. It's not "constructive criticism" by any stretch of the imagination, but that is how I feel:
The past few updates have kept me on the edge of my seat. I don't find them boring at all, I find them incredibly interesting. They raise questions that I know will be answered soon, and I love it.
Some people might prefer the part of a story where all questions get answered. And I won't say I dislike it.
But I like this "in-between" state where questions are raised, some others are answered. Things are happening, and I'm not sure what they are yet.

It seems that some of your are bored. Well, I hope it changes. Maybe towards the end of this book it will. Maybe it won't. It's true that this is a complex story and not at all what it started as.
I don't hold any answers, but in my opinion, it's not going to change. It's never going to revert to the way it's started. It's a carefully planned story with a lot going on, and although I can't imagine the humour ever leaving it, it's going to be heavily focused on plot.

I understand that you might have preferred some earlier strips, but... The way I see it, back then, it was already the way it is now. What I mean is, this story was planned to happen that way from the start (well, close to the start that is). The black dragon was introduced early with a specific goal in mine, it's been confirmed in the commentary of DStP. At that time, the story was already in place. It was already going to be that way.
So, it didn't "change" or "jump the shark" or "betray" anyone. It was already planned to be like this. Whatever you put in it, whatever you thought the story was going to be, that turned out to be different, is your fault for assuming things, not the Giant's since he's sticking to his plan and not letting other people tell him what to do.

I just felt like pointing that out, because I constantly see people who say they feel "betrayed" by the way a comic "changed" when it's only ever followed the original plan.

[FuegoAzul]

"Telepork!"

And the demon roaches are classic as always. Nice!

[BillyJimBoBob]

However, when our opinions are needlessly provocative they're better left unsaid.And if I think that your opinions are needlessly provocative, you'll stop posting them? Who watches the watchmen? :)