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Anonomuss
2010-01-17, 12:06 PM
A new player (New both to the group and new to DnD generally) is joining my DnD 4e game, and he wants very much to play what is essentially a Warder from the Wheel of Time series. Having never read the series myself, I'm not quite sure what class would best befit a warder.

From what he's told me, they are:
-Expert Swordsmen,
-Lightly Armoured,
-Protectors of Mages,
-Descended from a line of Kings, and trained by a secret order.

So the two classes which I think would best suit are;

Swordmage
Lightly armoured swordsmen, who would easily distract attention from anyone who would attempt to attack their friends/ward. However, on the downside, the player didn't seem to like the idea of being a magical swordsman, but I suppose that could easily be reflavoured.


Avenger
Lightly armoured great weapon wielders. However, very little protection provided for a 'ward', so it doesn't really fit the way he wants to play. However, the rest of the fluff seems to be in order.


But neither fits exactly upon what he wants to play. If anyone could recommend one over the other to me, or suggest an alternate class, I would really appreciate it.

Zeta Kai
2010-01-17, 12:16 PM
Go with a re-fluffed Swordmage. Fluff is way easier to adjust in 4E than mechanics.

Artanis
2010-01-17, 12:23 PM
A new player (New both to the group and new to DnD generally) is joining my DnD 4e game, and he wants very much to play what is essentially a Warder from the Wheel of Time series. Having never read the series myself, I'm not quite sure what class would best befit a warder.

From what he's told me, they are:
-Expert Swordsmen,
-Lightly Armoured,
-Protectors of Mages,
-Descended from a line of Kings, and trained by a secret order.

So the two classes which I think would best suit are;

Swordmage
Lightly armoured swordsmen, who would easily distract attention from anyone who would attempt to attack their friends/ward. However, on the downside, the player didn't seem to like the idea of being a magical swordsman, but I suppose that could easily be reflavoured.


Avenger
Lightly armoured great weapon wielders. However, very little protection provided for a 'ward', so it doesn't really fit the way he wants to play. However, the rest of the fluff seems to be in order.


But neither fits exactly upon what he wants to play. If anyone could recommend one over the other to me, or suggest an alternate class, I would really appreciate it.

Define "lightly armored".

I ask because, like Zeta Kai said, the fluff can easily be changed. All we really need to look at is the mechanics of it. Would "lightly armored" mean actual Light Armor, like cloth or leather or something? Or would the lighter-than-plate chainmail - and thus a Battlerager or Tempest Fighter - work? Is it an actual Defender (as in the mechanical role), or is it made to hurt things?

Those sorts of questions will help figure out exactly which class's mechanics to take. The fluff can be sorted out later.

Tiki Snakes
2010-01-17, 12:30 PM
Swordmage, or Fighter.

Just because the Fighter is good with heavy armour doesn't mean you have to use it.

Anonomuss
2010-01-17, 12:31 PM
@ Artanis: Well, we'd been all set on him being a paladin before I mentioned that he'd be wearing plate. His exact words were that he didn't want 'very much armour at all'. I'm taking this to mean no heavy armour. as neither leather nor hide is sufficiently cumbersome to obstruct movement.

@Tiki: Good point. I admit I didn't think about a dex-heavy fighter.

Draz74
2010-01-17, 12:31 PM
Ranger actually works fine, if the players don't mind fighting with two weapons. (A two-bladed sword, perhaps?)

Artanis
2010-01-17, 12:41 PM
@ Artanis: Well, we'd been all set on him being a paladin before I mentioned that he'd be wearing plate. His exact words were that he didn't want 'very much armour at all'. I'm taking this to mean no heavy armour. as neither leather nor hide is sufficiently cumbersome to obstruct movement.

@Tiki: Good point. I admit I didn't think about a dex-heavy fighter.

Alrighty, so off the top of my head...

--Swordmage: Defender, secondary controller. Very good at defending buddies, and pretty good at locking down enemies. Uses one sword (always a sword, hence the name). Sucks at actually hurting things.

--Avenger: Striker, secondary God only knows what. Uses one big weapon. Very accurate and tends to crit a lot, but still doesn't have that great DPR, and thus is generally considered the worst Striker. Starts with only Cloth armor.

--TWF Ranger: Uses two weapons, starts with light armor. Quite literally the single best build in the entire game when it comes to making things die. Killing things is about all it does though.


Fighters are really designed for heavy armor. Sure, they can use light armor (especially with DEX-based builds), but I would stick with something purpose-built for using the lighter stuff.

DSCrankshaw
2010-01-17, 12:43 PM
I'd just go with a Dex heavy blade fighter. Not necessarily tempest, unless he wants two weapons. It sounds like he wants to be a defender, so a defender class is preferred.

oxybe
2010-01-17, 12:45 PM
@ Artanis: Well, we'd been all set on him being a paladin before I mentioned that he'd be wearing plate. His exact words were that he didn't want 'very much armour at all'. I'm taking this to mean no heavy armour. as neither leather nor hide is sufficiently cumbersome to obstruct movement.

@Tiki: Good point. I admit I didn't think about a dex-heavy fighter.

the sword-based fighter in 4th ed will most likely have a good dex and excellent str since a lot of sword feats key off dex, just expect to get hit more often then you would normally would expect to be if you're going light armor fighter.

depending on how you feel about it, you may want to grab the barbarian multiclass feat. barbs powers tend to be large, single-target damage and work off your good Strength & big weapons.

Optimystik
2010-01-17, 01:05 PM
Two-Weapon Ranger is my suggestion - there are warders that dual wield, not to mention one of the best swordsmen in the world (i.e. Gaidal Cain.)

Hal
2010-01-17, 01:06 PM
Go with a re-fluffed Swordmage. Fluff is way easier to adjust in 4E than mechanics.

Or refluff a Barbarian. Light armor, good with weapons.

Mando Knight
2010-01-17, 01:16 PM
If he's got some magic of his own, then Swordmage. If not, then a high-Dex Fighter in Hide won't lose too much AC, and in fact will gain a speed boost due to not being in heavy armor.

Evard
2010-01-17, 01:17 PM
I vote for Two weapon or One weapon barbarian

He could save his rages for when he needs to protect someone...

Example

Barbarian is busy with a couple minions and a bigger monster has descended upon the Wizard *dun dun duuuun* Barbarian goes into a rage charges the monster uses power attack....as long as he rolls decently the monster won't be focused on the wizard anymore :P

sombrastewart
2010-01-17, 01:24 PM
A new player (New both to the group and new to DnD generally) is joining my DnD 4e game, and he wants very much to play what is essentially a Warder from the Wheel of Time series. Having never read the series myself, I'm not quite sure what class would best befit a warder.

From what he's told me, they are:
-Expert Swordsmen,
-Lightly Armoured,
-Protectors of Mages,
-Descended from a line of Kings, and trained by a secret order.


He's got some stuff right, some wrong. Only one of the warders is descended from a line of kings, and the order ain't secret.

Regardless, as a big, big fan of the series, I'm going to tell you that a dex fighter with a two handed weapon is the closest to what he's looking for. Swordsage would work as well, but the Warders are more about physical skill, and the abilities granted to them by being bonded to one of the world's mages are prolonged endurance, strength and that sort of thing.

They're also, pretty much as a whole, a group that fights with a two handed blade. I'd definitely go with a great weapon fighter.

Anonomuss
2010-01-17, 04:51 PM
Thanks for the help guys. I'm going to start writing up his character now.

kieza
2010-01-17, 04:55 PM
I'd agree with the High-Dex Fighter. A Tempest (Dual-wielding) Fighter with 16 DEX at 1st level (For a human fighter, I recommend 16 12 14+2 11 12 8)will have as much AC as a standard Fighter (without a shield). Use swords or some other weapon that benefits from DEX, and you're good to go. You'll have better Reflex than a standard Fighter, but probably worse Will (since you'll be boosting DEX instead of WIS). You might also run into trouble with armor, since Hide armor enchantments are mostly aimed at strikers.

Now, if he doesn't want to dual-wield, he'll be a little low on AC (since some of the AC in the above build is from Two-Weapon Defense), but still benefit from higher Reflex. I'm pretty sure there are magic items he can pick up to boost his AC back up, though.

Theodoric
2010-01-17, 05:05 PM
I'd agree with the High-Dex Fighter. A Tempest (Dual-wielding) Fighter with 16 DEX at 1st level (For a human fighter, I recommend 16 12 14+2 11 12 8)will have as much AC as a standard Fighter (without a shield). Use swords or some other weapon that benefits from DEX, and you're good to go. You'll have better Reflex than a standard Fighter, but probably worse Will (since you'll be boosting DEX instead of WIS). You might also run into trouble with armor, since Hide armor enchantments are mostly aimed at strikers.

Now, if he doesn't want to dual-wield, he'll be a little low on AC (since some of the AC in the above build is from Two-Weapon Defense), but still benefit from higher Reflex. I'm pretty sure there are magic items he can pick up to boost his AC back up, though.
How about a parrying dagger, since he'll be wielding an off-hand weapon anyway?

kieza
2010-01-17, 08:46 PM
How about a parrying dagger, since he'll be wielding an off-hand weapon anyway?

Mmm...could be useful for the Tempest, to get AC a little higher, but it would also drop his damage with dual-wield powers a bit. And since DEX is an important stat for a lot of those powers, he might as well be using them. Of course, he could just not use them, but then you'd essentially have a sword and board fighter with 1 less AC.

If he wants a 2H weapon, high DEX and hide will still work. He'll be down 1 AC and won't have access to some nice enchantments, but he'll gain +1 speed, +1-2 REF, and have some really good secondary effects with the right powers.

Delcan
2010-01-17, 11:33 PM
Just going off of the Wheel of Time fluff, I have a few suggestions as far as building goes:

-Fighter, I think, is a better way to identify Warders than anything else. Although I could see some of the WoT mages taking on rogues or rangers. Martial class all the way, in any case.
-Elven Cloak. Warders have pseudo-magical cloaks that help them blend in. Minor thing, but it helps with the flavor.
-Possible multiclass feats to rogue or ranger. Warders actually do train Stealth, I think, and either would be wise, depending on what the Warder plans to do in his career.
-Emphasize both mobility and getting enemies the heck away from the caster. A Warder's job in the series, basically, is to keep the mage safe while the mage does her thing.
-I don't know about emphasizing Dex as your secondary, if you go Fighter; Wisdom seems to be much more of a defining trait for the Warders. It'll also put a good boost into your Will defense, which is fitting both in fluff and in mechanics - you don't want your fighter to suddenly become part of the problem.

absolmorph
2010-01-18, 12:45 AM
Just going off of the Wheel of Time fluff, I have a few suggestions as far as building goes:

-Fighter, I think, is a better way to identify Warders than anything else. Although I could see some of the WoT mages taking on rogues or rangers. Martial class all the way, in any case.
-Elven Cloak. Warders have pseudo-magical cloaks that help them blend in. Minor thing, but it helps with the flavor.
-Possible multiclass feats to rogue or ranger. Warders actually do train Stealth, I think, and either would be wise, depending on what the Warder plans to do in his career.
-Emphasize both mobility and getting enemies the heck away from the caster. A Warder's job in the series, basically, is to keep the mage safe while the mage does her thing.
-I don't know about emphasizing Dex as your secondary, if you go Fighter; Wisdom seems to be much more of a defining trait for the Warders. It'll also put a good boost into your Will defense, which is fitting both in fluff and in mechanics - you don't want your fighter to suddenly become part of the problem.
Warders almost definitely train in stealth. Lan can sneak up on Perrin in the third book. And consider how high Perrin's Perception would be.

I'd say a Fighter wielding a two-handed sword would be most accurate. Almost all of the people in the WoT series use two-handed swords (heron-marked blades are major status symbols, and the people who use them are trained with two-handed swords).

Lupy
2010-01-18, 12:49 AM
Bonus tidbit: When lewt time comes and this guy gets his first paragon magic sword, have it be katana shaped, with a heron on the blade.

AgentPaper
2010-01-18, 12:57 AM
Multi-Class Feat:

Warder Training
Prerequisites: Fighter, Dex 15
As long as you are wearing light or no armor, you gain a +1 per tier bonus to AC. Grants training in the Stealth skill.

Thomo
2010-01-18, 01:26 AM
Ideally A Warder would best be represented by a Two-Hander Ranger. Because there aren't any of those, nor the mechanics to make one effectively, the barbarian would be my next choice. But, to help a bit more, here's some things about Warders.

- Warders are Bonded to their Aes Sedai (think mage)
-The Bond gives them almost superhuman endurance, and some other, not quite explained benefits. Suffice to say, they are hard
- They are highly disciplined, highly trained killing machines
- They go beserk when their Aes Sedai is killed, often throwing themselves into overwhelming odds.
- They are some of the best swordsmen in the land, and deadly with just about every other weapon
- Each Warder has their own preferred style, but by and large the mostly use swords
- They are sneaky bastards
- In the WoT, there is very little 'heavy' armour, anything heavier than chainmail is rarely mentioned (there are a couple of groups who wear heavy armour)
- Warders are there to protect their Aes Sedai, willingly sacrificing themselves, and they will do practically anything to ensure their safety. And they don't back down. Unless told to by their Aes Sedai.
- Fighting in WoT is a very fluid and fast thing, and most swordsmen use several stylised 'Forms' in combat. This isn't reflected too well in the combat system for D&D, but you can fluff up several abilities/powers to suit.

Kurald Galain
2010-01-18, 08:14 AM
From what he's told me, they are:
-Expert Swordsmen,
-Lightly Armoured,

That adds up to barbarian, hands down. If you don't want armor, you need either a class feature that adds to your AC, or a way to get lots and lots of temp HP. Barbarian gets both.

hamishspence
2010-01-18, 08:22 AM
what about PHB2 Warden? Or are they too overtly magical?

Anonomuss
2010-01-18, 09:40 AM
Ok, so what I've currently gone with is the Fighter with a two-handed sword and high-ish dex. Warden is slightly too magical for the character (from what people have said and from what I've read on wikipedia), and the Barbarian doesn't have the ability to lock down a large group of enemies at once.

He works out as follows:

Human Fighter, Level Three
Str: 16
Con: 13
Dex: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 8

Hit Points: 40, Bloodied: 20, Healing Surge: 10, Surges per day 10

AC: 18, Fort: 16, Ref: 15, Will: 14 (Includes +1 Sylvan Hide Armour)

Wields a magical Greatsword (Thinking a Master's Blade +1 from AV 2)
Has a Longbow also, (As an aside, if he wants to make use of his dex for other things)

Feats
-Weapon Focus (Heavy Blades) [PHB]
-Warrior of the Wild [PHB]
-Reaping Blade [MP]

Trained Skills
-Athletics, Endurance, Heal, Intimidate and Stealth

Powers
At Wills: Footwork Lure, Cleave, and Sure Strike.
Encounter 1: Covering Attack.
Daily 1: Villain's Menace.
Utility 2: Defensive stance.
Encounter 3:Parry and Riposte.

I tried to focus on powers that would show his finesse with a blade as opposed to its brute power, especially as the group has a Fullblade wielding, plate wearing, Dragonborn Battlerager. They work quite differently in practice.
How I justify cleave in this sense is that he is so quick with the blade that after a lasting blow on one enemy he can cause a light wound on another. Defensive stance, is more for situations when he's already got a group of enemies attention, and is holding them away from his ward.

A note on magic items; I'm not giving him the standard Lvl-1, Lvl, and Lvl+1 magic items, as he's joining a game in progree where none of the characters have more than 2, and 2 of which only have one. I may give him and his ward free Tattos of shared consequence that only go one way. (This will effectively be given to them to begin with, but count as their share of the magic items from the first group of treasure parcels.

EDIT: @Lupy, I'll have to try and remember that... :smalltongue:

The J Pizzel
2010-01-18, 10:01 AM
I would take Weapon Expertise (+1 to attack) over Weapon Focus. In 4E, not hitting is a big deal. Gotta land that hit to get all the cool effects that a power gives.

Kurald Galain
2010-01-18, 10:17 AM
Powers
At Wills: Sure Strike.
It's A Trap!

Seriously, this is one of the two worst at-wills in the game (the other being the near-identical Careful Attack). I would recommend anything else over this one.

Yakk
2010-01-18, 10:32 AM
Homebrew:


[b]Light Armor Fighter[b]:
This option may be taken in place of a Fighter's Weapon Talent feature. While wearing light armor, you gain a +1 bonus to all Weapon and Martial attack powers, and gain a +1 bonus to AC.

This can be emulated in the character builder pretty easily. Take the Fighter Weapon Talent option, and only pick Weapon or Martial attack powers. Wear light armor. Spawn the character sheet. Edit the AC field and increase it by 1.

What this does is make a Fighter build in light armor that doesn't have a serious AC disadvantage to the Fighter in heavy armor.


At Wills: Footwork Lure, Cleave, and Sure Strike.
Encounter 1: Covering Attack.
Daily 1: Villain's Menace.
Utility 2: Defensive stance.
Encounter 3:Parry and Riposte.
Sure Strike is a bad power. Take the one that deals damage on a miss instead. Or knockdown assault. Or most anything, really!

Seriously, this is one of the two worst at-wills in the game (the other being the near-identical Careful Attack). I would recommend anything else over this one.
Careful Attack was upgraded to grant full [W]+Stat damage.

Anonomuss
2010-01-18, 10:35 AM
I would take Weapon Expertise (+1 to attack) over Weapon Focus. In 4E, not hitting is a big deal. Gotta land that hit to get all the cool effects that a power gives.


It's A Trap!

Seriously, this is one of the two worst at-wills in the game (the other being the near-identical Careful Attack). I would recommend anything else over this one.

I find it interesting that these two statements would be right after one another.

Weapon expertise is given as a bonus feat to all characters in my game at 5th level, to allow players to focus on other things.

I will look into other at-wills for him, although I do like sure strike fluff-wise. I suppose Reaping Strike would be an alternative.

The J Pizzel
2010-01-18, 10:42 AM
Well, I'd go with Kurald's advice over mine any day of the week. But of importance here is that you're comparing a power with a feat. Two very different things. Powers are sacred, holy objects which should be chosen with upmost care. Feats, likewise should be chosen with care, but provide a little more leniency. Never waste a power slot on something a mere feat can provide. Power slots are precious, precious things. Does this make sense, or am I embarassing myself?

Kurald Galain
2010-01-18, 11:29 AM
I find it interesting that these two statements would be right after one another.
It's about opportunity cost again: Sure Strike gives you a bonus to-hit, at the price of not doing anything useful with that hit. Powers that only do damage, like this one, are easy to compare:

Basic attack = 50% to hit, 9.5 average damage => 4,75 damage per round
Sure strike = 60% to hit, 5.5 average damage => 3,3 damage per round

This is assuming an 1d10 weapon and a +4 strength mod. Of course, unless you're a striker (and sometimes even then), the best powers tend to be those that do additional effects than just damage, such as moving (tide of iron, footwork lure) or multi-target (cleave, twin strike).

And yeah, feats aren't powers. You get lots of feats over your career, and many feats aren't that strong; but you get only two at-wills (three if human), several of which are strong. Furthermore, feats are always in effect, whereas powers cost a standard action to activate (which means you can't use a different standard action instead). It's a matter of opportunity cost. Like I said on the wizard thread - a combat modifier that costs a feat and is always in effect is much much better than an identical modifier that costs a power slot, and requires a standard action to activate for one turn.

Kylarra
2010-01-18, 11:35 AM
Late to the party, but I'll second barbarian for your light armored fighty-type.

imperialparadox
2010-01-18, 11:48 AM
Hey guys, long time-lurker deciding to make his inaugural newbie post. :smallsmile:
_____

I've never read the Wheel of Time novels, but based on a perusal of the play setting and what the player is trying to accomplish, I'd just go with a greatweapon-warrior and refluff the heavy armor as 'defensive warden training.' I believe the DMG2 has a section talking about alternatives to magic item rewards as well, when normally you would give the character magic armor, just give him 'improved warden training' instead. As long as you choose appropriate armor types to mimic, this should mechanically be the same, while accomplishing what the player is looking for fluff wise.

The only stickler may be the speed penalty and armor check that heavy armor wearers normally get - which would seem odd for someone who is a 'light armor user.' Perhaps have them burn a feat to get the speed or armor penalty back?

In the end you know what the player wants RP-wise, so it's just a matter of hand-waving game mechanics to taste.

Yakk
2010-01-18, 11:56 AM
I find it interesting that these two statements would be right after one another.

Weapon expertise is given as a bonus feat to all characters in my game at 5th level, to allow players to focus on other things.

I will look into other at-wills for him, although I do like sure strike fluff-wise. I suppose Reaping Strike would be an alternative.
So, the sure strike feat gives you the ability to land a weak effect slightly more reliably.

The weapon expertise feat gives you the ability to land every attack you make slightly more reliably.

To use sure strike, you have to make weak attacks.

To use weapon expertise, you can use any attack you want.

Weapon expertise at low levels ends up granting about as much damage boost (per round) as weapon focus when used with at-wills, and more with encounter/daily powers... with the added bonus of lowering your variance. And the added bonus of helping land the riders on powers.

Sure strike ... just works with at-wills. And weakens the at-will you use it with.

---

If you want sure strike to be good, add the rider "roll twice, taking the best result".

18 strength character.
+3 proficiency weapon.
Reaping Strike vs a 17 AC monster (level 1 soldier) = hits on a 10+.
Using a two handed sword.
45% chance of 4 damage
50% chance of 1d10+4 damage
5% chance of 14 damage
7.25 damage per round.

Scaling: +1 per str bonus, +.55 per static bonus, +.05 per crit bonus.

Str bonus goes up by ~1/6 levels
Static bonus goes up by (+1/6 enhance, +1/6 other)
Crit bonus goes up by about +level.

DPR =~ 7.25+.4L.

Sure strike (with double-roll) with the same assumptions.
Hits on a 8+
~0.12% miss chance
~78% hit chance for 5.5
~10% crit chance for 10
5.29 damage per round

Scaling: +.88 per static bonus, +.1 per crit bonus.

DPR =~ 5.29 + 0.39L.

So by adding "roll twice, and take the better roll" to sure strike, I developed a power that remains marginally worse than reaping strike at dealing damage. But that was a huge upgrade -- which tells you how bad the original power is!

This new power can actually be exploited to generate some neat effects (HBO + Sure Strike 2 would upgrade the stikiness of a fighter hugely, high crit range in epic would boost it allowing you to make a crit-fishing fighter, etc), plus it has a lower damage variance than reaping strike -- so I would consider this version of sure strike to be "good enough to be viable".

So if you want to give the player sure strike, add a rider "roll twice, and take the best result". Note, however, that there are an increasing number of feats that also boost sure strike.

Checking ... if you grabbed every sure strike boost feat, you'd end up with a good power, but it still doesn't get ridiculous. So ... if you are the DM, try letting sure strike roll twice to see if it hits (and it keeps the +2 to hit as well).

Kurald Galain
2010-01-18, 12:02 PM
Checking ... if you grabbed every sure strike boost feat, you'd end up with a good power,
I'm reasonably sure that you can apply only one "power boost" feat to a power at the same time.

Thrawn183
2010-01-18, 12:03 PM
I'd also recommend the barbarian, if nothing else than for the toughness aspect.

Yakk
2010-01-18, 12:44 PM
Zombie Veteran [Heritage] (bonus str damage on a 15+ roll on undead)
Black Hood Killer (2H axe required, +2/+5 untyped vs slowed/immobilised, +[W] coup-do-grace)
Forge Rager (works with 2H axe, +2/3/4 (tier) damage if you have been hit since your last turn)
Serpent Fang Style (+2 bonus to hit with secondary poison attack)
Exotic Fighting Style [Arena Fighting] (with superior weapon, add proficiency bonus to damage)
Grudge Style [Arena Fighting] (if the target damaged you since your last turn, deal bonus damage equal to your wis modifier)
Nerathi Vanguard Style [Arena Fighting] (+1 AC if you are using a shield).

Filtering the good ones:
Exotic Fighting Style [Arena Fighting] (with superior weapon, add proficiency bonus to damage)
Grudge Style [Arena Fighting] (if the target damaged you since your last turn, deal bonus damage equal to your wis modifier)
Black Hood Killer (2H axe required, +2/+5 untyped vs slowed/immobilised, +[W] coup-do-grace)
Forge Rager (works with 2H axe, +2/3/4 (tier) damage if you have been hit since your last turn)

Dwarf Fighter, two-handed weapon talent
16+2 Str, 13+2 con, 11 dex, 8 int, 14+4 wis, 10 cha
Feats:
1: Dwarven Weapon Training
2: Exotic Fighting Style
4: Grudge Style
6: Black Hood Killer
8: Forge Rager

+2 axe.

Sure Strike at level 8:
+4 str +4 level +2 enc +2 prof +2 power +1 class = +15 to hit
1d12 brutal 2 + 2 enc + 4 wis +2 feat +2 Forge +2 Exotic = +12 damage
+2 if target slowed, +5 if immobilised, assuming the target attacked the dwarf in the last turn.

That is almost worthwhile. But you are burning a lot of feats for one at-will power, and the result isn't all that spectacular.

With the ability to roll twice, the above would be pretty spectacular.

Thajocoth
2010-01-18, 06:09 PM
Plenty of classes fit. Mastery with swords, however, comes in a LOT of different flavors, so that's very vague... ANY class can easily be the result of training by a secret order, as they're all exceptional people. They're heroes. So most classes will be listed... I will list what could potentially fit:

Fighter. They usually wear heavy armor, but a BRV or Tempest Fighter gets an advantage for dropping to chain or lower, and if you go with a Str/Dex build, Hide becomes a better choice than chain. There's even a feat to use Dex instead of Wis for Combat Superiority. Also... Dex is the suggested secondary score for heavy & light blades.

Two-Blade Ranger - Using 2 swords with light armor... Fairly straight-forward.

Rogue - Lightly armored... And with some fairly recent dragon feats, you can use a rapier or even upgrade to a one-handed heavy blade. The rapier feats add a lot of duelist options, like getting to add sneak dice when you and the target are the only ones adjacent to one another.

Warlord - For a Str/Int Warlord, Hide actually makes more sense than chain. They use martial weapons, which could easily be a sword.

Avenger - As lightly armored as you can get, and for a sword, you're likely to have a Fullblade. They don't rely completely on their weapon though. That is, even if you're refluffing, their powers are obviously using some source of power aside from sword mastery.

Barbarian - Barbarians also wear light armor and wield a sword for all their attacking needs.

Bard - A melee Bard in Hide. Cha/Int.

Warden - They wear light armor and rely a lot on a weapon. Can easily be a sword.

Artificer - You can easily make a weapon-focused Artificer. Here, they're using magic, but the fluff is with infusions. It could be that they learned this while protecting mages (one of your points)

Assassin - Like the rogue, but comes with a wider range of weapons without any feats. They use the shadows to their advantage

Swordmage - They're bound to specifically use a sword, and their magic draws on that. They're still very magic based though. I still have no idea the exact sort of flavor you're looking for.

Yakk
2010-01-18, 06:43 PM
A new player (New both to the group and new to DnD generally) is joining my DnD 4e game, and he wants very much to play what is essentially a Warder from the Wheel of Time series. Having never read the series myself, I'm not quite sure what class would best befit a warder.

From what he's told me, they are:
-Expert Swordsmen,
-Lightly Armoured,
-Protectors of Mages,
-Descended from a line of Kings, and trained by a secret order.
The Line of Kings bit is one particular Warder (Lan) for one particular Aes Sedai (Mage).

Warders are bound to their casters -- they share pain and emotions to a certain degree.

Warders use swords. Warders vary in what sword they use. (some warders won't use swords).

Warders come with, as "standard equipment", a colour-shifting cloak (camouflage cloak).

Warders tend to be lightly armored. They also tend to be reasonably stealthy.

And yes, they tend to defend their Aes Sedai. The Aes Sedai are bound by oath to not use magic as a weapon, except to defend themselves, their warder or against someone they know is a darkfriend (think sworn to Amadeus or Orcus) or foulspawn (which most 'monsters' are), and are physically incapable of violating that oath. So the Warders act both as a lower level of persuasion (as they don't use magic), and as a lighting rod to permit the Aes Sedai to attack (anyone who threatens the Warder is fair game).

As noted, a two-handed Ranger build is pretty close to exactly what is wanted here, but you could probably go with a Fighter MC Ranger in Hide armor with high Dex.

The problem is that it takes a lot of effort to make this character work, and if there are other defenders it could be outshone.