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Deth Muncher
2010-01-17, 02:26 PM
Partly inspired by this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138742) thread, I've been wondering: Just what are mundane swords made of? I mean sure, you've got your mithril, adamantine, obdurium, unobtanium, and Wonderflonium swords, but what about...y'know, swords for the layfolk? How do you know if it's iron or steel? Or bronze, for that matter? Would it being masterwork denote that it's one kind of mundane metal over another? Or what?

Draz74
2010-01-17, 02:29 PM
While it's somewhat setting-specific (some settings are still in the Bronze Age), I'm fairly sure the DMG says somewhere to assume steel in general (for the default setting).

Masterwork would just be higher-quality steel (Damascus steel for example).

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-17, 02:56 PM
I've tended to play as mundane being iron, masterwork being steel, and bronze/etc. being worse-than-mundane.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-17, 03:01 PM
While it's somewhat setting-specific (some settings are still in the Bronze Age), I'm fairly sure the DMG says somewhere to assume steel in general (for the default setting).

Masterwork would just be higher-quality steel (Damascus steel for example).

No, masterwork means is is better crafted, not better steel.

Weezer
2010-01-17, 03:54 PM
I would say primarily made from steel, mostly because longer swords (longswords and bigger) cant be made from iron. Iron isn't strong enough to avoid bending/breaking when you use blades longer than ~24" (IIRC i might be off the mark, not an expert just remembering some things I've read). Masterwork would just be better craftsmanship/forging technique or perhaps a better quality steel as someone suggested earlier.

Coidzor
2010-01-17, 04:41 PM
Given the stats for bronze given, one is to assume that swords are not bronze unless stated otherwise, which leaves iron-to-steel being sort of an indistinguishable medley.

Harperfan7
2010-01-17, 04:50 PM
Standard PHB metal weapons and armor are steel. MW versions are just better crafted.

Yuki Akuma
2010-01-17, 04:57 PM
Yeah the books are fairly explicit that metal weapons default to steel.

Zaydos
2010-01-17, 04:58 PM
Masterwork cost extra to make because you are specifically using the best quality materials as well. That said it also implies that even if you're picking with materials without the skill to make use of these better materials it doesn't matter. So I'd say steel and more thoroughly refined steel (if you have a Mw Hand-and-a-half sword it's obviously folded steel).

Wind d8/d12
2010-01-17, 04:58 PM
Not all steel is made equal and once you spend 15 minutes reading a metallurgy book it's pretty easy to understand how forging steel into objects can be done more complex for more flexible or harder steel. I think a good rule of thumb is that bladed weapons=steel. The forging techniques are what make it masterwork, not materials. I recall it stating something to that effect...somewhere :smallredface:
I actually owned a bronze (maybe....copper?) sword that came out of a BudK catalog. It might have been able to break bones but the metal was so soft that my friends saber (slightly more expensive and higher quality) actually cut into the blade and got stuck there.

Deth Muncher
2010-01-17, 05:01 PM
Steel.

Well then. That about sums that up. Are there stats given for non-steel mundane metals? I saw someone mention bronze, how about iron? Or...I dunno, copper? :P I mean hey, if you've got a bunch of copper pieces, you may as well smelt them into a sword. Not like you're doing much else with them.

herrhauptmann
2010-01-17, 05:52 PM
Well then. That about sums that up. Are there stats given for non-steel mundane metals? I saw someone mention bronze, how about iron? Or...I dunno, copper? :P I mean hey, if you've got a bunch of copper pieces, you may as well smelt them into a sword. Not like you're doing much else with them.

Bronze weapons have a penalty to damage. And possibly to attack as well. They break easier than steel (lower break DC, hardness, and hitpoints).
Copper would be even worse. If you're going to make a copper weapon, I'd suggest putting a few handfuls of pennies into a sock (or empty belt pouch) and swinging it around.

Use your pennies intelligently. Annoy small animals with them for amusement. Or, when I played 2nd ed, I generally had several pouches of money. The most obvious and accessible ones were also the largest, and filled to the brim with copper coins. This way when the DM decided I was going to get my pocket picked, it was always going to be the smallest value pouch.

Bibliomancer
2010-01-17, 06:05 PM
Bronze is mentioned in the DMG chapter on alternative settings (space-age, steam power, bronze age, stone age). Weapons made of bronze IIRC, have a -1 penalty on attack and damage rolls and a hardness of [Steel's hardness -2]. Bronze breastplate is only a +4 bonus to AC but its maximum Dexterity modifier is increased by 1.

Oslecamo
2010-01-17, 06:10 PM
Well then. That about sums that up. Are there stats given for non-steel mundane metals? I saw someone mention bronze, how about iron? Or...I dunno, copper? :P I mean hey, if you've got a bunch of copper pieces, you may as well smelt them into a sword. Not like you're doing much else with them.

There's a good reason we just assume the weapons are made out of steel: the remaining metals are worst in all ways to make weapons. It's like you asking for the stats of weapons made of candy.

What you could is give special abilities to copper and bronze like silver and cold iron have special properties.

Deth Muncher
2010-01-17, 06:19 PM
There's a good reason we just assume the weapons are made out of steel: the remaining metals are worst in all ways to make weapons. It's like you asking for the stats of weapons made of candy.

What you could is give special abilities to copper and bronze like silver and cold iron have special properties.

Also a good point. But you have to admit, candy longswords would be awesome. It'd make sense in the Elemental Plane of Candy.

Noble Savant
2010-01-17, 06:19 PM
People use bone and wood for their weapons in Darksun. Maybe Obsidian if they're lucky. Metal of any sort is reserved for the incredibly wealthy, and penetrates the DR of quite a few monsters.

My point? It all depends what setting you're in. But, as other people have said, the default is steel.

Oslecamo
2010-01-17, 06:33 PM
People use bone and wood for their weapons in Darksun. Maybe Obsidian if they're lucky. Metal of any sort is reserved for the incredibly wealthy, and penetrates the DR of quite a few monsters.

My point? It all depends what setting you're in. But, as other people have said, the default is steel.

Eeerr, most default settings assume that PCs are damn wealthy people, with dozens of GP at 1st level, and from them upwards thousands of GP.

awa
2010-01-17, 08:56 PM
copper is really very soft historical you almost never see it used as a weapon. Normally people use stone before they bother with copper particularly if they have acsses to flint or obsidian.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-01-18, 12:02 AM
Unless you're using a setting that says otherwise iron and steel are your defaults for metal. If you're using one of the handful of non-metal weapons hardwoods for short hafts and semi-hard woods for longer hafts. Different types of bamboo for wooden weapons if you want something oriental.

DragoonWraith
2010-01-18, 12:36 AM
higher-quality steel (Damascus steel for example).
Damascus steel is primarily the product of the technique, rather than the materials. Moreover, while the technique has its places (it's rather similar to the one use by the Japanese for katanas), it's not really better than what medieval smiths would have done. It acquired legendary status because it looks pretty, and, well, everyone forgot how to do it in medieval times.

The Japanese have to use the technique because they have poor iron and it makes poor steel, but that technique can help. Damascus, as I understand it, faced similar issues and came up with a similar solution. Europe, on the other hand, had plenty of decent iron and the technique was unnecessary and possibly wasteful.

So yeah, if anything... Damascus steel would be worse material, usually.

Ormur
2010-01-18, 03:09 AM
If iron and the knowledge of ironwork there's really no reason for using bronze weapons. Iron is more abundant than copper so it's cheaper to work with than inferior bronze.

hamishspence
2010-01-18, 06:25 AM
Magic of Faerun has rules for magically hardened weapons of other metals- such as gold, platinum, copper, silver.

Thurbane
2010-01-18, 09:05 PM
Also remember that iron and cold iron are two different materials according to 3.5

oxybe
2010-01-18, 09:07 PM
+6 swords are made of uranium, cause they radiate power...

awa
2010-01-18, 09:16 PM
actually their was a period in human history where bronze was considered the superior weapon building material to iron becuase the very earliest iron tools were extremely brittle and thus not as good as well forged bronze. But this didn't last real long becuase decently forged iron is much better then bronze not to mention more common.

unre9istered
2010-01-18, 10:50 PM
Damascus steel is primarily the product of the technique, rather than the materials.

Actually the opposite is true. We can mimic the techniques used to produce Damascus steel in modern forges, but it's not Damascus steel. Damascus steel disappeared from history when the mine the ore the steel was made from panned out. I read a paper claiming that naturally occurring carbon nano-tubes are part of what made it so special.