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DabblerWizard
2010-01-17, 10:54 PM
Hello forum goers.

The short explanation: I am not good at planning out combat encounters. Help!

The longer explanation: Though I find myself having a lot to say about the roleplay aspects of d&d, combat encounters are one of those things that I don't think I'm very good at. Though I try to use the rules laid down in the DMG 1, my players often battle creatures that are either too easy, or too difficult. As a general insight, this seems to say something about my overall problem with combat mechanics.

My basic question: How might I make an easy, average, and hard battle for a group of four level 5 players, and a group of four level 10 players?

I would definitely appreciate input in two separate areas:
(1) a mechanics guide (maybe in a step by step fashion) that would give me insight into how to plan monsters for a given scenario (as in the question above)

(2) interesting combat tactics for monsters to make them do more than just stand there and hit

Doug Lampert
2010-01-17, 11:16 PM
Hello forum goers.

The short explanation: I am not good at planning out combat encounters. Help!

The longer explanation: Though I find myself having a lot to say about the roleplay aspects of d&d, combat encounters are one of those things that I don't think I'm very good at. Though I try to use the rules laid down in the DMG 1, my players often battle creatures that are either too easy, or too difficult. As a general insight, this seems to say something about my overall problem with combat mechanics.

My basic question: How might I make an easy, average, and hard battle for a group of four level 5 players, and a group of four level 10 players?

I would definitely appreciate input in two separate areas:
(1) a mechanics guide (maybe in a step by step fashion) that would give me insight into how to plan monsters for a given scenario (as in the question above)

(2) interesting combat tactics for monsters to make them do more than just stand there and hit

Difficult depends on how good your players are at tactics and working together. You can almost certainly do a better job by thinking it through than anything we can tell you based on the given information.

That said: start with an equal number of standard monsters of the same level with a mix of roles including at least two soldiers or skirmishers. I find lurkers are more trouble than they're worth, and if you're having trouble you probably want to stick to two monster types and avoid those with powers that go on someone else's turn.

If this sort of fight seems to be too hard for your players they suck. (Seriously, this is the default and baring something wonky about the monsters it should be fairly easy. They should have no real trouble dealing with up to 4 of these in a day and well over four is possible.)

If this seems too easy then up the levels by 1-4 above the party and/or upgrade one or two monsters to elites. Swaping out one or two standard monsters for minions with a good ranged attack can also work well if the terrain allows them to get shots off from a safe distance while the standards or elites stay between them and the PCs.

For planning the actual encounter and for what the monsters do. Look at the monster's powers and use them for a guide. Make sure there's something in the terrain for most fights. Few battles are fought on giant billiard tables or parking lots. Include some cover, some high ground, some pits or drops, lots of difficult terrain (off road it's fairly easy for MOST of the terrain to be difficult), ext...

Don't always use the same terrain, vary it. Remember that monsters will deliberately TRY to lair in areas that give them an edge, the monsters with lots of slide powers WILL be near the cliffs, this isn't cheating, this is putting the monsters where they should be. Monsters that can climb well will pick locations where climbing is useful. Monsters that can fly will normally fight outdoors. Ranged monsters love open areas. But conversely don't stop your players from using the terrain, if someone has lots of push or slide or teleport powers that doesn't mean their foes will all know in advance to avoid cliffs. They SHOULD get to use those powers as a "win" button now and then.

valadil
2010-01-18, 01:02 AM
I would definitely appreciate input in two separate areas:
(1) a mechanics guide (maybe in a step by step fashion) that would give me insight into how to plan monsters for a given scenario (as in the question above)

(2) interesting combat tactics for monsters to make them do more than just stand there and hit

1. This is laid out in the DMG. It lists how much experience to allocate for encounters. I think monsters 1-2 levels higher than your players are reasonable. 3-4 levels higher will be challenging.

2. What is "interesting?" Terrain plays as big a role in this as the monsters you choose. Try to always have something going on instead of just a wide open world. Ambush the players at a turn in the corridor so that the archers in the back can't shoot the monsters. Drop a portcullis on the middle of the party, cutting off the people in back until they can make athletics checks to lift the gate. Put archers on a ledge and use minions to guard the only ladder. Basically you want to make terrain that gives one side an advantage. Then put your guys there and make them take that advantage.

Decoy Lockbox
2010-01-18, 01:58 AM
Sometimes the DM vs player battle interaction can be a bit lopsided -- I've got a couple gifted tacticians in the group I DM for, and its only through my background in Advance Wars/Breath of Fire/Squad Leader that I can stay ahead of them.

If the tactical skill level is too lopsided, you could always jack up the monster's attack/damage, defenses/hp, or both.

Or you could recruit a tactically skilled friend to be your "DM general" who essentially prosecutes all your battles for you (and stats them out if need be). Through my years of gaming, I've seen many cases of DM's who either were great at roleplaying but sucked at combat tactics, or were amazing at combat but crappy at roleplaying. Sometimes two of those chaps would team up and run a co-op campaign (DM storyteller and DM general). This cuts the work required to run a game in half, but does take some of the creative capital out of your hands.

Kurald Galain
2010-01-18, 08:36 AM
My basic question: How might I make an easy, average, and hard battle for a group of four level 5 players, and a group of four level 10 players?

The short answer is: assuming the party is level 5, an easy battle would be against level-4 monsters, an average battle against level-6 monsters, and a hard battle against level-9 monsters.

Adjust those numbers up by one point if the players are good at tactics, and down by one point if the DM is good at tactics.

The J Pizzel
2010-01-18, 09:51 AM
The first thing to do is DON'T PANIC. Next thing to remember is to never show fear or confusion in front of your players...they'll tear you apart.

But seriously, like the other have said, designing 4E encounters is very straight forward and in my humble opinion, has been very fun. Simply put, a straightforward fight should be an equal number of bad guys of the same level, or one level higher. So if you have 4 level 5 players, then grab 4 level 5-6 bad guys. Want it to be harder? Grab 4 level 7-8 bad guys. I've found that mixing up the roles is what 4E combat is all about. Make sure you have at least one soldier or skirmisher, then just fill in the rest. I tend to like artillery cause they can actually screw with the players from a distance and it takes a while the for players to get to them.

The last time we played I ran a one-shot. We had to wait almost a month and a half to play. So every friday at work up until we played, I re-read the MM entry for all the fights I was planning during that one-shot. I even went so far as to write out little index cards with reminders on what to do for each monster. By the time we had our game, I had most of the monsters powers memorized. I will be doing this for almost every game now.

Although this horse is beaten and dead, I'll simply reiterate the terrain thing. I used to work up the most pathetic fights. Simply providing trees for cover is not enough. You've got spice up the terrain.

Uh...that's about it. I will say that as a DM, I have no trouble fudging dice rolls if I see I've badly preparred a fight. If this encounter was supposed to a biggie and the players are just plowing through them; guess what? Monsters just recieved 50 HP and a +5 to attack and damage. Some might disagree, but that's how I roll (see what I did there?).

Eorran
2010-01-18, 11:53 AM
First, I'll echo what most of the others have said: use interesting terrain, and increase monster levels or numbers bit by bit if the encounters are too easy.

Most PC adventuring parties are a model of the combined-arms approach: you have a good range of melee and ranged based attacks, and they generally look to synergize as much as possible. Your monsters should do the same. Soldiers or Brutes to hold the line, Skirmishers or Lurkers to attack the squishies, Artillery and Controllers to harass or divide.

What's your players' party makeup? Are they weak in ranged? In melee? In Perception?

If you know where the group is weak, go ahead and hit them there.. but not every time. If you hit them where they're strong, you can toughen the monsters a bit more.

Decoy Lockbox
2010-01-18, 03:44 PM
The first thing to do is DON'T PANIC. Next thing to remember is to never show fear or confusion in front of your players...they'll tear you apart.

This! You always want to be the "stern but fair" DM and not the "buddy buddy" DM, or the illusion of danger is swept away. Try to be knowledgeable about the rules, to prevent rules arguments from happening in the middle of the game, challenging your legitimate rule. Take players aside and talk to them after games if problems come up.


I even went so far as to write out little index cards with reminders on what to do for each monster. By the time we had our game, I had most of the monsters powers memorized. I will be doing this for almost every game now.

Yeah, I make index cards for all my monsters so that I don't have to look them up on the fly. Well, I homebrew all my monsters, but if I used the MM I would still use index cards.

DabblerWizard
2010-01-18, 10:13 PM
Thank you everyone for your input. :smallbiggrin:

May your days and nights be filled with high dice rolls, but only if that's what you need.