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Acero
2010-01-18, 12:46 AM
how can i do this?

ideas i have so far:

replaced cannons w/ enslaved wizards (homebrewed fireballs)
ocean= random encounters galore

i also need an incentive not to make everyone take Swahbuckler

Temotei
2010-01-18, 12:49 AM
how can i do this?

ideas i have so far:

replaced cannons w/ enslaved wizards (homebrewed fireballs)
ocean= random encounters galore

i also need an incentive not to make everyone take Swahbuckler

Just because their title is swashbuckler doesn't mean they are of the swashbuckler class. Jack Sparrow could be justified as a rogue/bard/fighter, probably, using only core.

Why enslaved wizards? Why not just hirelings or crewmen/women?

Aquatic races would be kind of defeating the purpose half the time, if the players are crazy. They might just decide to swim where they need to. Then again, it would be sweet to swim under a ship, climb up the side, and board without anybody knowing.

Flight should probably be limited. Especially overland flight.

Races that can glide are money for pirate campaigns.

Climb speeds are nice too.

Acero
2010-01-18, 12:53 AM
Why enslaved wizards? Why not just hirelings or crewmen/women?

Aquatic races would be kind of defeating the purpose half the time, if the players are crazy. They might just decide to swim where they need to. Then again, it would be sweet to swim under a ship, climb up the side, and board without anybody knowing.

Flight should probably be limited. Especially overland flight.

going w/ evolution giving most people naturaly insane SR.
plus, pirate ship shooting fireballs.

might try to affirm a human/elf decision (have Dwarfs work under the ship, maybe less spell resistance on aquatic races)

pingcode20
2010-01-18, 12:56 AM
Or, you know, you could just go with ship's mages not being especially uncommon and ~5th level wizards being about the journeyman level. They'd be kind of valuable, but not impossible by a long shot for pirate crews to pick up one or two less scrupulous mages to live the life.

AtwasAwamps
2010-01-18, 01:13 AM
You probably want to look at Stormwrack. It's got a ton of stuff that will help you out.

golentan
2010-01-18, 01:21 AM
Agreed. Stormwrack has (among other things) a wide assortment of ships, prestige classes, spells, cannon (called "bombards" but the effect is much the same) class features, races, and weather conditions.

imp_fireball
2010-01-18, 01:24 AM
replaced cannons w/ enslaved wizards (homebrewed fireballs)
ocean= random encounters galore


You don't enslave wizards. Wizards enslave you.

Acero
2010-01-18, 01:34 AM
Or, you know, you could just go with ship's mages not being especially uncommon and ~5th level wizards being about the journeyman level. They'd be kind of valuable, but not impossible by a long shot for pirate crews to pick up one or two less scrupulous mages to live the life.

magic is still common, but alot of people have high SR (they need it against all the monsters in the area)

there'd be on average 10 low level wizards per ship belonging to a wealthy captain

trying to make a campaign where magic doesn't pwn everything

Satyr
2010-01-18, 03:48 AM
You want the Avalanche press book about Pirates (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_reviews_info.php?&reviews_id=16681&products_id=2323&it=1). Seriously, it is one of the best researched and explained D20 source books I have ever seen, almost equal to the gurps standard.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-01-18, 03:59 AM
what's wrong with cannons? I'm sure there's rules for them somewhere that's not too obscure. Or for that matter old school siege engines, DMG pg 100 has the rules for catapults and ballistae.

Coidzor
2010-01-18, 05:00 AM
Yeah, cannon definitely sounds more in line with what you want than having mages going pew pew for little to no effect.

Temotei
2010-01-18, 05:02 AM
Yeah, cannon definitely sounds more in line with what you want than having mages going pew pew for little to no effect.

R.A. Salvatore's stories with Drizzt had the drow and Wulfgar on a ship. They were attacked by some pirates, and some ships turned out to have wizards/sorcerers casting fireballs and lightning bolts to fair effect. Mast-breaking fun! :smallbiggrin:

Cannons are cooler though.

Ecalsneerg
2010-01-18, 05:12 AM
trying to make a campaign where magic doesn't pwn everything

A wizard defeated by Spell Resistance isn't earning his Int 18+

Also, if everything has SR, bear in mind you need to lower it to receive buffs and cures.

Temotei
2010-01-18, 05:16 AM
A wizard defeated by Spell Resistance isn't earning his Int 18+

Also, if everything has SR, bear in mind you need to lower it to receive buffs and cures.

Unless they're self-cast.

Coidzor
2010-01-18, 05:32 AM
R.A. Salvatore's stories with Drizzt had the drow and Wulfgar on a ship. They were attacked by some pirates, and some ships turned out to have wizards/sorcerers casting fireballs and lightning bolts to fair effect. Mast-breaking fun! :smallbiggrin:

Cannons are cooler though.

Yes, but he wants a horde of wussy wizards who are even further nerfed by some kind of ungodly high SR common to everyone and their grandma.

Hence why I'm like, why not just use the cannons and low-magic?

bosssmiley
2010-01-18, 05:49 AM
Wasn't the whole idea of the Freeport and Seventh Sea settings to be pirate country? You might want to give those a once over before reinventing the wheel wholesale...

Oh, and creatures w. breath weapons would likely work better than wizards (who are smarter than to stand in harm's way) as battery weapons. Just pop open a grate on the cage, point them out over the rail, and jab with a stick. :smallbiggrin:

Failing that you could always use a wand of [evocation spell of choice] bolted into a range/AofE amplifier magic item.

Eldan
2010-01-18, 06:21 AM
The problem is, of course, that all the best spells aren't affected by SR.

Still, bombards, catapults, ballistae (burning or otherwise), or even flame arrows should be very effective against ships, and probably easier to build and train crews for than wizards.

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-01-18, 07:35 AM
In the piratical campaign that I ran, I had the navies of the world use casters for support to their seige weapons, and private ship generally hired an adventurer team to serve as special marines.

Kris Strife
2010-01-18, 08:10 AM
Wouldn't Orb of X actually work better for cannons than fireballs? Or at least seem a lot closer to the origional?

Jayngfet
2010-01-18, 11:37 AM
Giving everyone natural SR is a terrible idea no offense. It means a good deal of the classes just about anyone would take are completely worthless.

My suggestion: Go over the spell lists and pick a definite list of spells. These are the only ones currently in circulation, either by scroll or you can grab via bloodline, and by prayer. Now magic doesn't rule and casters aren't so nerf'd they're unplayable.

Besides, why does anyone bother learning offensive magic if everything in the area can resist already. Wizards need to learn.

For cannons, I'd go with magic items more than casters, if you want magic power. Remember disease is a very real problem, and casters get sick as much as everyone else if not more in many cases. They're not exactly suited to a life frought with cholera and scurvy.

However wands are very applicable to piracy. Give the captain a fireball wand and have him personally tear holes in chasing navy ships. Learning to use magic devices takes more than most pirates have the mindset for but one or two per ship can alter the course of a fight if they can afford proper magic devices.

However if they can't afford these people or their gear ballistas are a cheaper alternative. At 500gp each they won't exactly break the bank and can cut down most individuals with ease.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-01-18, 11:45 AM
Cut teleportation unless you want sea travel to become pretty much obsolete after 9th level

Drakevarg
2010-01-18, 11:46 AM
Replace the cannons with ballistas with vials of alchemist fire incorporated into their bolts. Don't need to worry about such annoying things as your magical slaves revolting and turning your ship into tinder.

BraveSirKevin
2010-01-18, 06:16 PM
Raymond E.Feist's Riftwar Cycle takes place in a gunpowder free world, but he did take a lot of anachronistic liberties with the ships and naval matters in general. His ships, sailors and pirates are all straight out of the 18th century "Pirates of the Carribean" era.

He doesn't use gun powder weapons but instead has replaced cannons with ballistas (which would have a similar but weaker effect, and take up slightly more space) and muskets and pistols with bows and crossbows. It works well enough cos it has the right piratey feel, and sticks to the no gunpowder rule. The King's Buccaneer in particular focuses a lot on this, but Magician and Shadow of a Dark Queen touch on the subject too.

Of course, I've always used gunpowder in my campaigns, just cos I have a couple hundred GW empire figures armed with pistols and handguns, and a bucketload of Forgeworld pirates armed as you'd expect. I think there's a lot more interesting potential in keeping the cannons and other piratey things and adding orcs and dwarves and elves to the mix!

I think the real key to a good pirate campaign is to set it in a group of moderately populated islands with a few big cities and a couple ancient ruins to explore in the more traditional way for a little variety. Ships could be a side theme with the players using them to get around or the players could spend a lot of time on them by working as guards on merchant ships or even working their way up the ranks as part of a pirate crew.

Stompy
2010-01-18, 09:47 PM
EDIT:

replaced cannons w/ enslaved wizards (homebrewed fireballs)
Do you need to have the wizards enslaved? I mean they could just be loyal to the crew and captain.

ocean= random encounters galore
You could have the PCs somehow piss off another pirate crew. That can give you plot ammo (or at the very least more boat-to-boat encounters).

i also need an incentive not to make everyone take Swahbuckler
I don't see this being a problem unless you group is into the pirate culture. Try to encourage a "balanced" party if this comes up.

My other general thoughts:

1. If I was going to fling spells boatwise, I'd want the long range spells (unless visibility is shortened), and the absolute first thing I would do is either blindness or fireball the navigator to obscurity.

2. You can have gunpowder, but either muskets are not invented yet or they are an exotic weapon. (I believe the early muskets were inaccurate anyway.)

3. Destroying the sails of the other boat is a good strategy too.

Mando Knight
2010-01-18, 11:28 PM
Cut teleportation unless you want sea travel to become pretty much obsolete after 9th level

Not really. Teleport Object requires 70 gp for each 50 lbs of cargo teleported (using Teleport instead has a varying rate depending on the carrying capacity of the caster and other touched creatures). Assuming the passenger fare on a ship is the same as the shipping rate for cargo twice that passenger's weight (since a living being takes up more room and requires provisions), shipping normally is cheaper for distances of around 350 miles... likely more, as my assumption for a passenger/cargo conversion rate is rather generous towards the passenger.

Lamech
2010-01-19, 01:02 AM
Not really. Teleport Object requires 70 gp for each 50 lbs of cargo teleported (using Teleport instead has a varying rate depending on the carrying capacity of the caster and other touched creatures). Assuming the passenger fare on a ship is the same as the shipping rate for cargo twice that passenger's weight (since a living being takes up more room and requires provisions), shipping normally is cheaper for distances of around 350 miles... likely more, as my assumption for a passenger/cargo conversion rate is rather generous towards the passenger.

Teleport costs 1100gp* for 3 people, and for a mule they can move 690lb worth of goods. So thats... little over half a gp per pound. If anyone gets to close to the land thats based on Africa they can grab an elephant trio. Those suckers can move 6400lb each and you start measuring the cost to teleport in cp per pound.

I also note those are the average animals. Ones that rolled good for strength will do even better. Also if more than one trip is being made in a short period of time one should shell out for potions, or bull's strength spells.

*Both ways with a CL of 11, any other CL makes the people/cost ratio better. Both ways because the wizard wants to get home. This is the upper bound for cost.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-19, 09:22 AM
Wasn't the whole idea of the Freeport and Seventh Sea settings to be pirate country? You might want to give those a once over before reinventing the wheel wholesale...

This. I've not seen a better setting out there than 7th Sea, and if you're in a creative mood, the old d10 system is delightful.

Failing that, Stormwrack is good too. No point reinventing the wheel.

Jayabalard
2010-01-19, 09:52 AM
replaced cannons w/ enslaved wizards (homebrewed fireballs)Why would you need to shoot fireballs at ships if everyone has people who can enslave wizards that can shoot said fireballs? THat just doesn't make any sense.

Eldariel
2010-01-19, 11:29 AM
Use Wands instead of Enslaved Wizards ('cause, y'know, the latter is not believable in the least). Wand of Fireball is perfectly doable and somewhat usable by a level 1 Rogue (And let's face it, Pirates are Rogues. As are Ninjas.).

Though actual Cannons of sorts exist in Stormwrack as said. But yeah, overall, I'd use Wands along with a Ship Mage or two (Mages are still rare due to the mental stat requirements, after all); Mage can take care of winds, battlemagic, protection, repairing and so on so one would be completely indispensible. Of course, they probably have outrageous salaries so you can't afford too many per boat (unless the Mage is the captain).


Of course, all this raises a question as to why does a world with Mages even have ships; one you may want to solve before going further (it is an eminently solvable question but should be solved nevertheless; it really helps build the world around the answer).

Thurbane
2010-01-19, 09:12 PM
If you can still get it, the hardcover "Dead Man's Chest" from Necomancer Games is an awesome 3.5 adventure setting/adventure path that has a nautical/pirate theme...

http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/d20/deadman.htm

oxinabox
2010-01-19, 09:36 PM
I've ran this, a pirate game.
I banned all "Aquatic X" races eg aquatic elf, aquatic halfling etc, because as a general rule alot of these aquitic races are identical to the orignal race but get hte free benifit of being able ot breath underwater/ a listed swim speed.

Let me see if i can dig up the threads i was using to berainstorm...

Dire SHark out of water (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/subscription.php?do=viewsubscription&pp=50&folderid=0&sort=lastpost&order=desc&page=6)
Making a memorable Pirate Captain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118131&page=2)
Ninja/Pirate multiclass (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117619)
Value of a ship, some general stuff, i think theres abit about making dwarves in fullplate float (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117626)
Sinking Ships (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116970)
It's been ages sine i posted those, but IIRC the last two might be worth reading as i think they went quiet offtopic.

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-19, 09:38 PM
(And let's face it, Pirates are Rogues. As are Ninjas.).

It has been logically proven that one ninja is exactly equal to one pirate.

Debihuman
2010-01-20, 07:17 PM
There are a number of good supplements for a pirate setting and even ones that aren't so good will have things you can use or tweak so that you can use them. The biggest obstacle is that many of these older supplements were made under 3.0 rules and haven't been updated.

Mongoose Publishing's Seas of Blood is good for fantasy ship rules and had really nice deck plans. They also published Ships of the Goblinoids, Ships of the Elves and Ships of War. These are 3.0 products and will need tweaking to get them up to 3.5.

Green Ronin's Skull & Bones puts D&D in a historical pirate setting (good for a "Pirates of the Caribbean" type setting.

Both Broadsides! and Pirates! from Living Imagination are also decent products.

Debby

Optimystik
2010-01-20, 07:35 PM
The problem is, of course, that all the best spells aren't affected by SR.

Also, that's it's trivial to defeat.

Thurbane
2010-01-20, 09:19 PM
There are a number of good supplements for a pirate setting and even ones that aren't so good will have things you can use or tweak so that you can use them.
I'm going to re-quote myself, in case it got lost at the bottom of the last page... :smallbiggrin:


If you can still get it, the hardcover "Dead Man's Chest" from Necomancer Games is an awesome 3.5 adventure setting/adventure path that has a nautical/pirate theme...

http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/d20/deadman.htm

dsmiles
2010-01-21, 05:21 AM
I don't know if anybody's mentioned it yet, but Mongoose put out some pretty good high seas books...you might look into them.

JaronK
2010-01-21, 05:38 AM
Honestly, I think high seas campaigns need low magic, or at least low numbers of casters around (magic items are fine, but full on casters destroy everything). Consider that shipping makes little sense with everpresent teleportation, and consider how helpless a ship is against a Druid who's flying around pretending to be a bird. Even a single casting of Force Ladder would be devastating. Shipping just makes little sense with full casting.

We had an idea for a campaign that never took off that was to be a pirate game where everyone had to play a skillmonkey of some kind, here defined as any class that had 6+Int skills. No Cloistered Clerics allowed though. It was a fun idea, at the very least.

JaronK

Leon
2010-01-21, 05:42 AM
Use Ballista with shot ammo instead of bolts to simulate cannon

Thurbane
2010-01-21, 06:32 AM
Honestly, I think high seas campaigns need low magic, or at least low numbers of casters around (magic items are fine, but full on casters destroy everything). Consider that shipping makes little sense with everpresent teleportation, and consider how helpless a ship is against a Druid who's flying around pretending to be a bird. Even a single casting of Force Ladder would be devastating. Shipping just makes little sense with full casting.
...welcome to the Tippyverse.

If teleportation is abundant enough that shipping is redundant, then obviously no one farms, no one ever dies of disease (in fact no one ever dies permanently full stop), no one breeds horses, no one mines, no one crafts tools or any other items by hand...etc etc. If high magic is like hot and cold running water in every household, then why would anyone even bother adventuring?

Touchy
2010-01-21, 07:37 AM
...welcome to the Tippyverse.

If teleportation is abundant enough that shipping is redundant, then obviously no one farms, no one ever dies of disease (in fact no one ever dies permanently full stop), no one breeds horses, no one mines, no one crafts tools or any other items by hand...etc etc. If high magic is like hot and cold running water in every household, then why would anyone even bother adventuring?

Any long-living race needs a new hobby.

oxinabox
2010-01-22, 09:09 AM
Any long-living race needs a new hobby.

. Eldar .