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View Full Version : How to avoid making a GMPC [system largely irrelevant]



Dvil
2010-01-18, 12:34 PM
Okay, so I'm running a PbP Rogue Trader campaign for a small group on another forum, and I'm hoping to increase the size of the group slightly. There's a nice opportunity to introduce another character here, and I'm thinking that if I add a character cool enough, that might draw in another player to play him. Or, if no-one takes control, he can travel with the party for a while before he turns out to be an enemy/dies, messing with their heads. The only problem here is that if I make a PC-worthy NPC who travels with the party, this is walking a very fine line between GM-controlled PC and (the dreaded) GMPC.

One idea that I've had is to make him cool, but not too powerful (like, make his best combat skills hand-to-hand based), but there aren't many ways to achieve this while still introducing him via combat.

Flickerdart
2010-01-18, 12:52 PM
Make him a buff-bot. Your players won't be complaining about the NPC if he doesn't railroad the party or hog the spotlight, but they definitely won't complain when the guy is handing out Greater Magic Weapons like candy.

Dvil
2010-01-18, 01:15 PM
Ah, that could work. Yeah, I might custom-make him so that he's fairly specialised at unarmed combat/buffing the party.

Sliver
2010-01-18, 01:18 PM
DMPC isn't really dreaded... People just hate them because they automatically assume that it will be poorly run.. You don't have to avoid it if you think you can pull him off.. As long as you let the players play and don't make him stronger then the players (and not overshadow any of them in a role they care about), everything will be fine.. Just don't talk to yourself too much..

Otodetu
2010-01-18, 01:38 PM
Better to introduce npc's that the players pick up themselves. (characters they save, characters they try to redeem, mercenaries)

Never just dump a npc in the party and have it stay there, and don't have npc's turn on the party or die for plot reasons, players learn to never bring npc's along with them that way.

Npc's the party pick up on their own is fair game.

Just my personal opinion.

Dvil
2010-01-18, 02:02 PM
Okay, so I've just statted him up. He's best at weapon skill, agility, willpower and Fellowship. He's a basic zealot missionary, except I've removed his skills/talents based on weaponry usage, and removed his actual weapons, and what I've given him in return is a couple of talents based on making unarmed combat feasible, and allowing faith-based buffs to nearby allies. Sound good?

EDIT: Also, the way I'll introduce him is that as they infiltrate the main HQ of the current bad guy, they'll find him being forced to fight other prisoners while the mooks watch. Not only does this (hopefully) highlight that they don't want to be taken alive, but it allows the guy to kill his opponent in a cool way, causing a sudden fight, so I can see how my PCs react to that.

Solaris
2010-01-18, 02:06 PM
Sounds good, but didn't we just have this discussion?

Dvil
2010-01-18, 02:09 PM
Sounds good, but didn't we just have this discussion?

I don't think so... The only thing I can think of is either the 'is this a DMPC' thread (posted after mine) or the 'how the DM's PC works' thread, and for the latter the title and first few posts didn't suggest that it tackled the same issue as this, and I didn't want to trawl through 20 or so pages to find out for sure.

Of course, if I'm mistaken, I'd appreciate being informed.

Sliver
2010-01-18, 02:12 PM
I don't know the system (because when I looked at your stretched faded avatar and saw the thread title, I believed that it was irrelevant) but buffs are always a solid choice for not outshining the PCs..

Kylarra
2010-01-18, 02:16 PM
Better to introduce npc's that the players pick up themselves. (characters they save, characters they try to redeem, mercenaries)

Never just dump a npc in the party and have it stay there, and don't have npc's turn on the party or die for plot reasons, players learn to never bring npc's along with them that way.

Npc's the party pick up on their own is fair game.

Just my personal opinion.Yeah this is one of the key parts imo. If the players choose to have the NPC along, then you're probably golden. If you're forcing the NPC on them, then that's a good sign they'll be less than well received for the most part.

Solaris
2010-01-18, 02:24 PM
I don't think so... The only thing I can think of is either the 'is this a DMPC' thread (posted after mine) or the 'how the DM's PC works' thread, and for the latter the title and first few posts didn't suggest that it tackled the same issue as this, and I didn't want to trawl through 20 or so pages to find out for sure.

Of course, if I'm mistaken, I'd appreciate being informed.

The second one. To be fair, you really would have to trawl through the 20+ pages to get anything useful out of it beyond certain players you really don't want in a game that involves party NPCs/ non-badly-done DMPCs.
Basically, though, if he's there to show up the PCs on a regular basis (or at all, really), he needs to die in a fire. If he has no personality, he needs to die in a fire.

Dvil
2010-01-18, 02:24 PM
On the element of choice, is it okay for the player to ask to travel with the party? I'm not forcing him on them, but at the same time, I'm not sure if this is possibly a little too blatant.

Kylarra
2010-01-18, 02:27 PM
On the element of choice, is it okay for the player to ask to travel with the party? I'm not forcing him on them, but at the same time, I'm not sure if this is possibly a little too blatant.If that's something they'd do "in character", then it's fine, just don't force it on them if they refuse.

Dvil
2010-01-18, 02:30 PM
Ah, ok. So it'd go down better if I spent some time preparing how the NPC will ask it, so it comes across as a lot more in-character and less "I'm the GM; here's another character. Play nice."

Kylarra
2010-01-18, 02:33 PM
Ah, ok. So it'd go down better if I spent some time preparing how the NPC will ask it, so it comes across as a lot more in-character and less "I'm the GM; here's another character. Play nice."Yeah pretty much. If it'd be logical for the character to want to accompany them and it makes sense, then there's a chance you'll get the party to agree. If it just seems like "TAKE THIS CHARACTER NOW" from the GM, odds are you'll get people trying to Kill on Sight and such.

Dvil
2010-01-18, 02:39 PM
Well, I'm hoping that they'll let him join them with minimal fuss, as I'm hoping to entice one or two more members with offers of cool new characters. The actual kill scene that will trigger the mass fight will involve kitchenware, I think, which should hopefully increase the demand for an unarmed specialist.

truemane
2010-01-18, 02:43 PM
One other part of the equation is to be sure that your NPC doesn't know, suspect, or deduce more about the plot than the PC's. Don't use the NPC as a means to warn the players about unwise decisions or to point the toward things you planned out that they missed.

It's usually best that they don't offer any advice at all. That saves you the trouble of separating their IC knowledge from yours. And once the players realize that the character isn't just your mouthpiece in-game, they'll settle down and be more receptive to his presence.

And remember, remember, remember: he's not cool. Don't make him cool. It's not your job to have him be cool. The cooler YOU think he is, chances are the more annoying the players will find him. Thsi is why, since time immemorial, the best side-kicks have been comedic relief.

Solaris
2010-01-18, 03:08 PM
One other part of the equation is to be sure that your NPC doesn't know, suspect, or deduce more about the plot than the PC's. Don't use the NPC as a means to warn the players about unwise decisions or to point the toward things you planned out that they missed.

It's usually best that they don't offer any advice at all. That saves you the trouble of separating their IC knowledge from yours. And once the players realize that the character isn't just your mouthpiece in-game, they'll settle down and be more receptive to his presence.

And remember, remember, remember: he's not cool. Don't make him cool. It's not your job to have him be cool. The cooler YOU think he is, chances are the more annoying the players will find him. Thsi is why, since time immemorial, the best side-kicks have been comedic relief.

D'oh. Forgot that. Allow me to re-emphasize the separation of you as the player against you as the GM.

Well, to be fair, the advice against making an over-cool character applies in all situations, not just DMPCs.

Knaight
2010-01-18, 03:24 PM
I would disagree, villains should be cool. It makes taking them down more enjoyable. That said, if you have 1, constant person with the PCs, then the GMPC becomes a risk. If they are there briefly, or there are several hirelings, it probably isn't going to happen.

Grumman
2010-01-18, 04:00 PM
As a general rule, I'd simply suggest that you give him the role that the players want someone else to fulfill, and would not be willing to do themselves. In D&D that would be the healbot or buffbot, but in a 40k-based game I'd probably make him a pack-mule, the guy that carries the comlink or the mortar. If there is no such role, don't introduce the character.

And whatever you do, don't make him turn out to be an enemy. This has been done to death, undeath and then to dust, and is likely to annoy the players OOC.

What sort of characters are people playing already?

Dvil
2010-01-18, 04:08 PM
There's a fighty character who prefers melee, a character whose skill lies with persuasive skills, but has a boltgun just in case, and one who's just joined who's an all-purpose Explorator (the tech guy). None of them have any buffing skills.