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CTLC
2010-01-18, 09:16 PM
well, do humanoid dogs exist in dnd 3.5?
as a monster or as a player race?

Thurbane
2010-01-18, 09:18 PM
There is a wolf-like humanoid race in Dragon Magazine Compendium.

Also, the web enhancement for Savage Species had the bare bones for a dog-like race called the Laika.

...and before anyone suggests Gnolls, Hyenas are NOT canines. They are most closely related to the mongoose family (Mustelidae?).

Grumman
2010-01-18, 09:18 PM
Do Gnolls count? They're the most obvious ones.

Xyk
2010-01-18, 09:19 PM
Do Gnolls count? They're the most obvious ones.

+1. Gnolls are great, and one of my favorite races.

Drakevarg
2010-01-18, 09:19 PM
I just use Gnolls and just say it looks like a wolf.

Plus, decent Strength and Constitution bonuses. Any time I'm not restricted to the PHB races I use a Gnoll.

EDIT: Double-ninja'd.

Touchy
2010-01-18, 09:19 PM
I'll go search for a template to see if it is possible. Any reason you want a humanoid dog?

Claudius Maximus
2010-01-18, 09:20 PM
Do Hound Archons count? It's a kind of celestial with a humaniod body and a canine head.

CTLC
2010-01-18, 09:21 PM
I'll go search for a template to see if it is possible. Any reason you want a humanoid dog?

because komamura is my favorite bleach character :smalleek:

kidding of course [or am i?], i just thought it would be a nice option at some point in time

hound archons kind of count, but less of a level adjustment would be nice.

i love the order of the 2nd-4th posts!

Thurbane
2010-01-18, 09:22 PM
Savage Species Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20030207a)

The Dragon Mag Compendium race are called the Lupin (Monstrous Humanoids). :smallwink:

Drakevarg
2010-01-18, 09:22 PM
Well, Gnolls are really tall to boot (7.5 feet on average), and generally brown/orange/tan-furred (though the one I use is grey-furred), so they make a good Komamura proxy.

CTLC
2010-01-18, 09:30 PM
as cool as these all are, they lack the oomph a pixie has.
im looking for a race to use as a dread necromancer who has to hide his nature and abilities to some extent. the character is indeed evil. i thought the dog like race would be a good way to add some stockiness to a class with so much close combat potential.

Drakevarg
2010-01-18, 09:32 PM
If you wanted a mage-dog, you should've specified as much. I was thinking "bite your goddamn arm off"-dog.

*grabs Monster Manual to look up a mage-dog.*

CTLC
2010-01-18, 09:32 PM
*grabs Monster Manual to look up a mage-dog.*

this kind of sentence makes me very happy

edit: charismatic helpful ability type dogs are good too

Xzeno
2010-01-18, 09:33 PM
Gnolls are hyena guys, not dogs, but they are still awesome. I recommend gnolls for anything, ever.

Drakevarg
2010-01-18, 09:34 PM
Hence why I said "just say it's a wolf."

I don't care if they're hyena guys. Wolves are cooler, and so Gnolls are wolves.

Thurbane
2010-01-18, 09:39 PM
There's a jackal-headed race of (monstrous) humanoids in Sandstorm - their name escapes me at the moment. They look like anubites.

CTLC
2010-01-18, 09:41 PM
errr i lied
i found it

hound archons are +11, and lupins are +0
somewhere in between?
that works for dread necroes?

Drakevarg
2010-01-18, 09:43 PM
Sourcebook concerning desert survival. I want a copy, but none of the bookstores nearby carry 3.5 anymore.

Anywho, Gnolls and Hound Archons are pretty much the only canine humanoids in Core. Sorry.

CTLC
2010-01-18, 09:45 PM
thats ok, ill see if i can make one or find a homebrew that my dm would accept

Kelb_Panthera
2010-01-18, 10:17 PM
How's this sound: +2 str, +4 dex, +2 con, scent, a bite attack, and a +4 on survival checks to track by scent, on a medium monstrous humanoid, for LA +1?

I think that seems pretty wolfy. :smallbiggrin:

Drakevarg
2010-01-18, 10:20 PM
Gnolls get +4 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT, -2 CHA, +1 NAB, darkvision and scent. For LA +1.

Yours seems poorly balanced by comparison. Mainly due to complete lack of penalties.

CTLC
2010-01-18, 10:27 PM
what would make the best dread necro, that actually has atleast a weeny bit o flavor?

HCL
2010-01-18, 10:29 PM
Gnolls get +4 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT, -2 CHA, +1 NAB, darkvision and scent. For LA +1.

Yours seems poorly balanced by comparison. Mainly due to complete lack of penalties.

And a bunch of crappy hit dice

Drakevarg
2010-01-18, 10:34 PM
2 =/= "a bunch," for one, and they have the +1 on top of their HD, for two.

sonofzeal
2010-01-18, 10:35 PM
The Santhil Campaign Setting (http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgmwvmds_53kvq4kcv&hl=en#Races_5527365573099128_4837708) I helped make has a whole slew of anthropomorphic races (click on "Wildlings" under "Races"). Wolfkin may suit your needs, though a slightly reflavoured Foxkin may also work for "small dogs".

CTLC
2010-01-18, 10:44 PM
none of those look great for dread necro, but i love that setting and i think my group should try it sometime

sonofzeal
2010-01-18, 11:09 PM
none of those look great for dread necro, but i love that setting and i think my group should try it sometime
Thanks! We find it suits slightly more "realistic" games, low on dragons and mindflayers (though such things do exist) and high on inter-humanoid conflict. We find the Wildling races are generally slightly on the weaker side of the PHB, but good enough to be popular; the majority of players chose Wildlings, but there were a couple humans and a changeling for a while, so they should be safe for play in most games.



Hmmm, and Dread Necro, huh? You want high Cha for that. High Con matters short of lvl20, unless you have a specific plan in mind. Catfolk (Races of the Wild) are one of the best LA+1 races with a Cha boost, IMO, and I'd be recommending them even if they weren't stolen for Santhil. =P I know Catfolk aren't technically related to Rakshasa, but seriously, how badass is that (http://luzesombras.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/rakshasa.jpg)? And the stats work decently, too, especially if you get LA buyoff.

CTLC
2010-01-18, 11:14 PM
still, when compared to a pixie, i like my 24 cha, my invisibility, my flying, my dex etc.

i should see if some of my friends want to startup a campaign though, and then ill be a cat!

Darrin
2010-01-18, 11:22 PM
Lupins appeared in Dragon #325 and were reprinted in the Dragon Compendium. Monstrous Humanoids with a keen sense of smell, but instead of giving them the scent ability, they got some convoluted rules for detecting things with Wisdom checks that no one is ever going to remember. Unless you're looking for some Alter Self shenanigans, they are extremely boring and uninspiring.

Try Hengeyokai from Oriental Adventures. Errata changed this race to humanoid with the shapechanger subtype, and removed the +1 LA. They can shapechange into one particular animal or a hybrid half-human/half-animal. There are two canine hybrid possibilities: regular dog (+2 Con, -2 Wis, +4 Survival when tracking by scent) or raccoon dog (+2 Str, -2 Wis, +4 Survival when tracking by scent). The regular dog form has better speed and better ability scores.

Serpentine
2010-01-18, 11:37 PM
Jackal Lord, p. 105 of the Fiend Folio.
No basic "As Characters" stats, so will probably have to be homebrewed there. In any case: bite, claw and weapon attacks; turn into a jackal; turn others into jackals; dominate animal (canines only); spell-like ability; spells; summon jackals; favoured class Cleric (could maybe houserule Necromancer?); LA +4.

CTLC
2010-01-18, 11:38 PM
jackal zombies? :smallamused:

its an idea

Ravens_cry
2010-01-18, 11:39 PM
well, do humanoid dogs exist in dnd 3.5?
as a monster or as a player race?
Don't be surprised if Warforged and other constructs don't greet you with, 'DOGGY! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FreeFall)'.

Touchy
2010-01-18, 11:44 PM
I found nothing that could be of help, thankfully other people did instead.

Xzeno
2010-01-19, 12:16 AM
Hence why I said "just say it's a wolf."

I don't care if they're hyena guys. Wolves are cooler, and so Gnolls are wolves.

Hyenas are totally awesome. Wolves are alright. Hyenas are vastly underrated, often labeled as thieves and scavengers by those who do no more research than watching The Lion King. In contrast, wolves are overused in almost everything, making them cliched and lame.

What I'm trying to say is that we're both entailed to our own opinion, and arguing the features of a fantasy creature is a tad silly. If you like wolves better, I hope that that's what you'll use. Similarly, I'm not offended by re-imaginings of any fantasy creature, even vampires in Twilight.

Edit: I hope no one misses the inherit silliness in my calling wolves, real animals, cliched.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-19, 12:51 AM
Hence why I said "just say it's a wolf."

I don't care if they're hyena guys. Wolves are cooler, and so Gnolls are wolves.no. no, they're really not. Wolves are intelligent, loyal pack hunters that work together and mate for life. Hyenas are more of a perverted extended family that falls just this side of morally bankrupt. Guess which creates a more interesting society?

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 12:56 AM
I didn't say wolves made for a better sitcom. I said they were more badass.

Leon
2010-01-19, 01:05 AM
There's a jackal-headed race of (monstrous) humanoids in Sandstorm - their name escapes me at the moment. They look like anubites.

Marruspawn

Marrulurk - Sneaky little one
Marrusault - Large Brute force one
Marrutact - Medium Spellcaster one

Kelb_Panthera
2010-01-19, 01:17 AM
Gnolls get +4 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT, -2 CHA, +1 NAB, darkvision and scent. For LA +1.

Yours seems poorly balanced by comparison. Mainly due to complete lack of penalties.

Meh, it was off the top of my head. Let's see. How about +2 str, +4 dex, +2 con, -4 cha, -2 wis, bite, and scent at +2?

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 01:19 AM
Meh, it was off the top of my head. Let's see. How about +2 str, +4 dex, +2 con, -4 cha, -2 wis, bite, and scent at +2?

I'd say that version would be appropriate for a +1 LA. However, it is also not terribly useful for the OP, who's looking for a mage-dog.

Thurbane
2010-01-19, 01:51 AM
Marruspawn:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2hyhzpy.jpg

Lupin:

http://i50.tinypic.com/24lvg4w.jpg

Serpentine
2010-01-19, 02:03 AM
Jackal Lord:

http://www.iwozhere.com/SRD/images/50085.jpg

As an aside, I made a much toned-down version of these to act as one of many humanoid "mammal" races for an area of my world. Don't know whether I statted them out, as they were mostly just decoration, really...

edit: Here it is, as used in a specific encounter (and therefore in need of heavy adaptation to make it characterable, if you want it).
{table]Name:|Canid
Size/Type:|Medium Monstrous Humanoid
Hit Dice:|8hd, 1hp (disposable grunt in the encounter)
Initiative:|+3 (on leader’s initiative) = 13 (leader’s)
Speed:|30ft
Armor Class:|21 (+3 Dex, +4 masterwork chain shirt, +4 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple:|+11/+12
Attack:|Bite +12 melee (1d10+4) or scimitar +12 melee (1d6+6)
Full Attack:|Bite +12 melee (1d10+4), and 2 claws +7 melee (1d4+4) or scimitar +12/+7 melee (1d6+6)
Space/Reach:|5ft/5ft
Special Qualities:|Low-light vision 60ft.
Saves:|Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +9
Abilities:|Str 18 +4, Dex 17 +3, Con 14 +2, Int 12 +1, Wis 14 +2, Cha 13 +1
Skills:|Bluff +7, Diplomacy +5, Disguise +3, Intimidate +7, Listen +8, Move Silently +8, Sense Motive +8, Spot +9, Survival +8
Feats:|Dodge (+2?)
Organization:|x40 (8 groups of 5)
Challenge Rating:|6? EL 13?
Treasure:|4sp, 25gp, 150cp; 1000sp-worth of tobacco (Nahississ couple of sacks); 10 silver bars (=500sp); 50 gold bars (=2500gp=250sp); 4 rolls cloth of gold (400 yards, 400sp), 1 roll cloth of silver (50yards, 500sp) (Nahississ); hornbill ivory circlet with water engraving (Nahississ); oak ring with golden yellow topaz (450gp) (Orenda); wool tapestry depicting a fort; marble bust of a warrior; mahogany brooch with abstract mosaic; tunic covered in swan feathers; 3 spellstone of true seeing (Orenda 1, Ellywick 2); case dragonsbreath arrows (x100, RoW) (Scout); +2 Holy light hammer (Kariana); case of potions of cat’s grace (x20) (Scout 5, Kariana 5)
Alignment:|NE
Advancement:|Modified Jackal Lord[/table]

Runestar
2010-01-19, 05:48 AM
Why has no one brought up the anthropomorphic dog from savage species?

Serpentine
2010-01-19, 05:54 AM
You mean, like in the second post?
Also, the web enhancement for Savage Species had the bare bones for a dog-like race called the Laika.Admittedly, that's "the web enhancement". Dunno what the difference is.

Thurbane
2010-01-19, 06:01 AM
Nah, the Laika in the webhancement isn't an anthro dog, it's a new, dog-like race. Speaking for myself, I didn't bring it up because the anthro animals are either hilariously gimped or chronically overpowered, depending on the flavor.

Runestar
2010-01-19, 06:03 AM
You mean, like in the second post?Admittedly, that's "the web enhancement". Dunno what the difference is.

They are 2 different creatures.

The anthropomorphic dog has 2 monstrous humanoid HD, LA+2 and some fairly decent stats.

The laika is a LA+0 humanoid dog with much weaker stats.

It is really all in how much you are willing to pay for. :smallsmile:

Also, the anthropomorphic dog appears fairly balanced for its ECL.

Devils_Advocate
2010-01-19, 06:37 AM
So, no one's mentioned plain old werewolves yet? They are Evil, sometimes-humanoid canines, after all. Plus they've got the whole weird disease/curse thing going for 'em, which is sort of in the same vein as necromancy. Being able to disguise themselves as ordinary humans (or whatever) fits with the "hide his nature and abilities" thing, and their boosts to Dexterity, Constitution, natural armor, and damage reduction give them some sturdiness.

CTLC
2010-01-19, 06:56 AM
i shall check the anthro dog and the marruspawn, as for were wolves, as nice as a dog werewolf is, in the setting they are detected and killed really quickly.

Runestar
2010-01-19, 07:02 AM
Stats for anthropomorphic animals can be found here.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061009a

RebelRogue
2010-01-19, 07:10 AM
Lupin
Your lupins or your life! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tr_jjs2LKQ&feature=fvst)

Other than that, kobold may be an option? I know they're reptiles but they're always described as being doglike.

bosssmiley
2010-01-19, 08:36 AM
Savage Species Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20030207a)

The Dragon Mag Compendium race are called the Lupin (Monstrous Humanoids). :smallwink:

IIRC they were introduced in the Princess Ark articles in Dragon magazine (yes, on paper. How archaic!). They were a bunch of humanoid dogs with a pseudo-French culture. The Muskahounds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELbhKL0Qm2E) parallels are obvious... :smallbiggrin:

@v: d'Eggtanian (and Senor Huevo, and the custard ninja, and Fat Vegas Elvis) died in a hard drive crash. There was the antithesis of rejoicing. :smallannoyed:

arguskos
2010-01-19, 08:42 AM
IIRC they were introduced in the Princess Ark articles in Dragon magazine (yes, on paper. How archaic!). They were a bunch of humanoid dogs with a pseudo-French culture. The Muskahounds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELbhKL0Qm2E) parallels are obvious... :smallbiggrin:
Oh bosssmiley, being the only grognard left in the Playground really (other than Matthew). Lovely to hear 'bout the old days.

Also, what happened to the egg dude with the sword?! You look like Giacomo now. :smallfrown:

JohnnyCancer
2010-01-19, 04:19 PM
Mystara's Savage Coast/Red Steel sub-setting had a humanoid dog race, could be worth updating.

pres_man
2010-01-19, 04:27 PM
i shall check the anthro dog and the marruspawn, as for were wolves, as nice as a dog werewolf is, in the setting they are detected and killed really quickly.

That's too bad, I was going to suggest a were-dog as an obvious choice.

CTLC
2010-01-19, 04:34 PM
i actually really like the marrutact, im going to try to make a race out of it,
preferably at most a +la race, anyone want to give it a shot before i do?
my first time for making a player race out of monstah

Fhaolan
2010-01-19, 05:06 PM
IIRC they were introduced in the Princess Ark articles in Dragon magazine (yes, on paper. How archaic!). They were a bunch of humanoid dogs with a pseudo-French culture. The Muskahounds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELbhKL0Qm2E) parallels are obvious... :smallbiggrin:

@v: d'Eggtanian (and Senor Huevo, and the custard ninja, and Fat Vegas Elvis) died in a hard drive crash. There was the antithesis of rejoicing. :smallannoyed:

I have vague memories of them being in the X2 module: Castle Amber, which was before the Princess Ark articles, but I'm not 100% sure of this.

CTLC
2010-01-19, 05:22 PM
might anyone have a guide to making a player race?

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 05:25 PM
I don't have a guide for it, but if you passed me the stats I could homebrew you one in about 20 minutes.

CTLC
2010-01-19, 05:29 PM
sandstorm page 172

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 05:55 PM
As I mentioned, I don't own that book (I WANT to, but none of the local bookstores carry it). Mind transcribing it?

pres_man
2010-01-19, 05:57 PM
As I mentioned, I don't own that book (I WANT to, but none of the local bookstores carry it). Mind transcribing it?

"Illegal! Pirates!" - Copyright Lawyer (West Trading Company)

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 06:01 PM
It's illegal to quote things now?

arguskos
2010-01-19, 06:02 PM
It's illegal to quote things now?
Yes, actually. That's non-OGL material, meaning by copyright law and the Forum Rules, it cannot be copied here.

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 06:07 PM
Ah, sorry then. Would it be allowed to simply tell me the standard attributes and special abilities, things like that? I don't really need the whole thing verbatum, just the juicy bits.

CTLC
2010-01-19, 06:31 PM
i actually do mind transcribing it as its illegal

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 06:34 PM
So I've now learned. Sorry, can't help you then. But come Friday I think I'll be going on a massive hunt for that friggen book. That and Frostburn.

CTLC
2010-01-19, 07:33 PM
you could use a hound archon as a base and make it a wee bit more cast-ey.
you could also use a were dog, or anything else in this thread

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 07:36 PM
What's the ECL you're looking for? And other than a knack for spellcasting, any particular flavor you'd like? (i.e., what's the campaign setting's environment?)

CTLC
2010-01-19, 07:40 PM
well, id prefer the LA to be as low as possible.
the flair would be that he is the one of very few of his kind, they live in a metropolis which is high middle ages esque. He is a dread necro, the rest are usually hybrid mage/warriors, they are planning with a very high level ally to kill the entire council and rule the city.
the rest of the group knows little to nothing about this plot and these people, and its a mutli-group campaign

EnnPeeCee
2010-01-19, 07:43 PM
Not that I can suggest using it, but MMII has the Lupinal Celestial, which is a wolf guy. They look sweet, but aren't listed as playable. Also a bunch of RHD.

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 07:43 PM
So, low ECL, Mage/Warrior competancy, and urban. Will do.

CTLC
2010-01-19, 07:49 PM
ill look at the lupinal celestial, and thanks so much Oka, one thing is that they pride themselves on their biting which my character is meh at. Outside the city is a few villages, and beyond the reaches of the city guard, just demons.

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 07:54 PM
Bite as natural attack... are they intended as mildly evil-aligned? (Not related to the bite thing, just wondering as I work.)

CTLC
2010-01-19, 07:57 PM
complete neutral, similar to dogs in a few way, intensely loyal to those who deserve it, and not so much to those who dont.
think about the range of behavior possible in dogs

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 08:04 PM
More wizard-y, or more sorcerer-y?

CTLC
2010-01-19, 08:07 PM
charisma necroey really
hes a dread necro, but thats rare among them
they are very charismatic and almost warlocky

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 08:09 PM
Currently the thing is an ECL 3 with +2 STR, +2 INT, +4 CHA, and +3 NAB. Is this acceptable? Bigger? Smaller?

CTLC
2010-01-19, 08:11 PM
again, that seems like a big disadvantage for a long campaign with a lot of levelling that starts at 5.
can it be more of a bonus to cha, penalty to wis, type thing. but especially a LA0 or LA1 thing

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 08:13 PM
I was trying to get him decent, but without penalties with a relatively low ECL. But if you're willing to take a Wisdom Penalty I think I can justify dropping his LA. (He's currently got LA +1. The other two bits are racial Hit Dice.)

CTLC
2010-01-19, 08:18 PM
how necessary are the racial hit die?

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 08:20 PM
They're there because this character would be ill-balanced without some sort of level adjustment, and racial hit dice are more useful than empty level slots.

CTLC
2010-01-19, 08:25 PM
my main issue is with teh fact that this character will end up outnumbered and fighting many enemy pcs in the story. so needing the same xp to get to a lower level just doesn't pay off in the end.

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 08:30 PM
So really you're wanting an ECL zero race?

...hrm. I've got it down to ECL 1, with +2 STR, +2 CHA, -2 WIS, and +2 NAB with a Bite Attack. With the various bonuses that the base races get, I think either removing the STR bonus or the NAB would make it justfiable as a adjustment-free race.

Finally, do you want me to make the fluff or will you handle that?

ashmanonar
2010-01-19, 08:33 PM
no. no, they're really not. Wolves are intelligent, loyal pack hunters that work together and mate for life. Hyenas are more of a perverted extended family that falls just this side of morally bankrupt. Guess which creates a more interesting society?

That's an awfully negative impression of hyenas; sounds very Victorian.

Quoth The Wiki:


Spotted Hyena societies are more complex than those of other carnivorous mammals and have been reported to be remarkably similar to those of cercopithecine primates in respect to group size, structure, competition, and cooperation.[10] One indication of hyena intelligence is that they will move their killed prey closer together to protect them from scavengers. Another indication is their strategic hunting methods.[11]

CTLC
2010-01-19, 08:34 PM
i think just the attack bonus can be dropped, any way to lose the hit die, and are there any special abilities? something like an improved base speed
ill fluff it up...

hehehehe
like a pillow

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 08:38 PM
Well, they do now!

So, fluff's your problem. As it is we have an adjustment-free canine with Strength, Charisma, teeth, and speed (40 ft). Oh, and low-light vision, but everyone has that. -2 Wisdom penalty is your only downside.

CTLC
2010-01-19, 08:40 PM
i would not mind dropping the str bonus, no dogs are fit, but by themselves not overly tough

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 08:41 PM
Alright, no Strength then. If that's all I'll toss it in Homebrew for you to take a peek.

CTLC
2010-01-19, 08:51 PM
thankee kindly, in the homebrew forum area?
or linky?

Zaq
2010-01-19, 08:52 PM
Gnolls get +4 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT, -2 CHA, +1 NAB, darkvision and scent. For LA +1.

Yours seems poorly balanced by comparison. Mainly due to complete lack of penalties.

You say this as though Gnolls are especially well-balanced.

(Spoiler alert: They're not. In fact, they're really kind of terrible.)

Drakevarg
2010-01-19, 08:58 PM
thankee kindly, in the homebrew forum area?
or linky?

Forum area. *Trots off to post it.*

Thurbane
2010-01-19, 09:31 PM
no. no, they're really not. Wolves are intelligent, loyal pack hunters that work together and mate for life. Hyenas are more of a perverted extended family that falls just this side of morally bankrupt. Guess which creates a more interesting society?
Wow, just...wrong. :smalleek:

Unfortunately, a LOT of wildlife documentaries, especially the older ones, were lazily researched and contain a lot of folklore and personal opinion. Some animals are portrayed as weak, cowardly, and generally unpleasant with little to no basis in actual fact (Hyenas, Jackals etc.). Conversely, some animals are protrayed as majestic, compassionate, brave and generally laudible, with the same disregard to hard scientific facts (Lions, Wolves etc.).

I strongly suggest that anyone who has the above opinion of Hyenas do some independant research, looking particularly to newer stuides and doumentaries, and form their own opinion.

...it reminds me a little of Narnia, where there seems to be rather arbitrary assignment of which animal species are Good and which are Evil...

Serpentine
2010-01-19, 09:45 PM
Female hyenas give birth through a pseudo-penis.
That is hardcore.

Xzeno
2010-01-19, 11:54 PM
No, actually hyenas were just... darn, I was beaten to it. Anyway, hyenas are just pack predators, like wolves but different. Hyenas (unlike gnolls, in the default campaign setting) are not devil worshiping raiders with a taste for human flesh.

So, do you reckon female gnolls have pseudo-penises, like hyenas? Despite having used gnolls pretty extensively in my campaign setting, I never thought about this. What do you think, Serpentine (or anyone)?

Thurbane
2010-01-20, 02:42 AM
I've actually seen that exact question debated in the adult topics section at the old WotC forums...I can't remember any specifics, though. I assume my lack of memory is some sort of innate mental defense. :smallbiggrin:

Serpentine
2010-01-20, 05:15 AM
So, do you reckon female gnolls have pseudo-penises, like hyenas? Despite having used gnolls pretty extensively in my campaign setting, I never thought about this. What do you think, Serpentine (or anyone)?Hrm. I would be inclined to go with "yes", because the whole sex-and-birth-through-a-pseudopenis-and-huge-mortality-in-first-time-mothers thing would make for an intense social system. I would be inclined to make it a matriarchal society, because
1. any females who have given birth would be hardcore tough
2. pre-birth females might be considered precious, or love-'em-while-you-can (or, alternatively, considered non-people until they've survived birth - kindest interpretation being protecting oneself from the heartbreak of their probable loss), and
3. surviving females would be extremely appreciated and respected, if only because they're extra-valuable (although, alternatively, you might end up with a Victorian-eraesque "precious fragile flower must be protected" patriarchy, but that doesn't really feel gnollish).

Ormur
2010-01-20, 06:18 AM
Female hyenas give birth through a pseudo-penis.
That is hardcore.

It certainly is. They also have complete control over when they mate. Heh, instead of viewing Hyenas as perverted loathsome scavengers as in folklore they could be viewed as models of female empowerment.

Of course that's still ascribing irrelevant human morality to animals but at least it's more positive.

Serpentine
2010-01-20, 06:38 AM
I dunno, you start thinking about hyenas in terms of feminism, then you throw in the pseudo-penis, and then you've got all sorts Freudian goings-on...

Ormur
2010-01-20, 06:54 AM
Yeah, it also has some unfortunate implications.

Still, if you go with Gnolls being basically anthropomorphic Hyenas in D&D you could translate that to them having a matriarchal society.

CTLC
2010-01-20, 04:37 PM
interesting... :smallamused:

Devils_Advocate
2010-01-21, 01:07 PM
The Monster Manual IV informs us that gnolls indeed have a matriarchal social structure, dominated by the larger females. Like spotted hyenas.

They also commonly worship the demon lord Yeenoghu and prefer intelligent prey because they scream more. They can live up to 40 years old, but most die sometime in their twenties. A typical gnoll litter is two to four pups.