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Psystar
2010-01-18, 11:53 PM
Does anyone know a good tabletop RPG for people (e.g my friends) who aren't willing to spend a long time (e.g longer than 30 minutes) reading rulebooks? At least one of my friends has familiarity with DND 3.5 but that's pretty much everything my friends know about tabletop RPGs.

Touchy
2010-01-18, 11:55 PM
Does anyone know a good tabletop RPG for people (e.g my friends) who aren't willing to spend a long time (e.g longer than 30 minutes) reading rulebooks? At least one of my friends has familiarity with DND 3.5 but that's pretty much everything my friends know about tabletop RPGs.
4e was pretty easy to pick up (for me) without reading.
I recommend this (http://microlite20.net/) though. Unless no d20s are allowed. This is nearly as simple as you can get for a tabletop.

Asbestos
2010-01-18, 11:58 PM
My gf took to SW: Saga a lot quicker than she did 4e, but that may be because she is just more familiar with Star Wars than with D&D. You need to consider the general interests of these beginners. If they are all about say, Zombie movies instead of Sci-Fi or High Fantasy, then maybe AFMBE is a good place to start instead of D&D or Shadowrun.

Glimbur
2010-01-18, 11:59 PM
RISUS (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm) and Wuthering Heights (http://www.unseelie.org/rpg/wh/index.html) are both rules light and free. They're not a bad way to introduce people to the idea of roleplaying without so many rules and modifiers to keep track of.

Grumman
2010-01-19, 12:01 AM
You could always use one of those old Fighting Fantasy books, if they're absolute beginners. The one I've got has a simple D6-based system and two dungeon-crawls in one book.

Ozreth
2010-01-19, 12:04 AM
get the 15 dollar 4e starter box set. GREAT for noobs.

LibraryOgre
2010-01-19, 12:09 AM
Castles and Crusades. Pick a race, pick a class. Roll a d20, and try to get over 18. Boom.

TheOOB
2010-01-19, 01:46 AM
7th Sea is a fun RPG if you can get a hold of it. Gameplay is simple and fun, focusing on drama more than mechanics. Character creation is fairly easy(for a point based system), and it's not hard to a GM to generate characters ahead of time.

Paranoia is a great system if your players don't want to learn rules, because they aren't allowed to know the rules! That said, it takes a special group that can stab each other mercilessly in the back, and not have it damage their friendship at all.

Really though, if your players don't want to learn rules, there are several RPG-like board games out there, including the Order of the Stick board game. These tend to be more accessible.

Emmerask
2010-01-19, 03:28 AM
well for really really light rules (light rpg too though but that would depend on your definiation of rpg) I would recommend the dragon strike(d&d superlight) or heroes quest board games :smallwink:

Satyr
2010-01-19, 03:30 AM
That depends on what kind of genre you want to play in; ask your friends what they like to play, and pick and according game. Let them decide what they want to play.
Then take the Gurps rules and build a corresponding setting/story around their ideas.
I usually recommend strongly against using rules light games for new players, because I think it is condescending to treat people as stupid only because they don't have the same grade of experience. Most rules-light games are pretty bad, too, because simplicity is usually achieved through a lack of details or depth.
Gurps is the best game for new players for a very simple reason: It is streamlined, elegant and intutive. You don't have to read most of the rule book, because the basic principles are so very self-explanatory.
The other merits of the system are, that players can very exactly create the characters they want to play and will not face some arbitrarily restrictions or limitations, so the player has the chance to play a cool character he or she can identify with from the very beginning. And, through rule gimmicks like the quirks and the usual way how characters are created, the characters are also very well-rounded from the get-go, and you don't have to deal with often very one dimensional, if not outright stereotypical characters.

Lawless III
2010-01-19, 03:53 AM
Dragonstrike all the way. Nothing gets you in the right mood for a fantasy adventure like a VHS filmed in HYPER REALITY. I am lucky enough to own a copy and I always use it to break in new players. It only takes about 20-30 minutes and has most of the basic things they'll need to know... Did I mention the VHS is filmed in HYPER REALITY?:smallbiggrin:

Corlindale
2010-01-19, 06:12 AM
That Microlite-system seems pretty cool and straightforward.

If you want really simple, you could use the old Fighting Fantasy system. It's D6-based, has only 3 stats and is incredibly simple - probably way too simple for many purposes, there's not much room for class-distinctions (even if a simple magic system can technically be added).

hamlet
2010-01-19, 08:01 AM
Swords and Wizardry. Even the full rule book takes about 20 minutes of reading to figure out and get into the game.

Plus its's, you know, free for a pdf copy. And has a starter set of rules to dip your toes in.

bosssmiley
2010-01-19, 08:21 AM
Labyrinth Lord - it's a free version of Basic D&D. Characters take 10 minutes to make and equip, and your character sheet looks like this:

http://rpgcharacters.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/dyson-logos-bx-character-sheet-small.jpg

Diminutive d20 and Microlite d20 are both super-quick versions of the d20 system. They're both fun and easy to learn and play.

RebelRogue
2010-01-19, 08:23 AM
That Microlite-system seems pretty cool and straightforward.

If you want really simple, you could use the old Fighting Fantasy system. It's D6-based, has only 3 stats and is incredibly simple - probably way too simple for many purposes, there's not much room for class-distinctions (even if a simple magic system can technically be added).
Isn't there a (slightly more) advanced version available somewhere?

storybookknight
2010-01-19, 08:41 AM
Castles & Crusades is rules-simple, but fairly Old Skool, and might be frustrating for novice players who enjoy being awesome at things right off the bat.

My vote for new players is, and always will be, Savage Worlds. Even a fresh-fledged novice character is simply much better than any mook, and there are a hojillion settings you can use depending on your players' interests. There's even very little math involved for players who don't like juggling dice and character sheets in their heads.

Also, if you think that getting players into tabletop gaming by virtue of humor is a good idea (which it totally is) try Kobolds Ate My Baby! which runs off the BEER and NUTS system. :smallbiggrin:

Glass Mouse
2010-01-19, 08:52 AM
I asked kinda the same question not too long ago, with a lot of great systems suggested.

You can find the thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137496).

Psystar
2010-01-19, 11:42 PM
Does anyone know a good tabletop RPG for people (e.g my friends) who aren't willing to spend a long time (e.g longer than 30 minutes) reading rulebooks? At least one of my friends has familiarity with DND 3.5 but that's pretty much everything my friends know about tabletop RPGs.

Kylarra
2010-01-19, 11:47 PM
There were some pretty good answers in your thread from yesterday (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138953), but I'll throw out gurps lite (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/).

Starscream
2010-01-20, 01:43 AM
I second Gurps. Creating a character can be a little complex, but actually playing one is simple.

Talkkno
2010-01-20, 02:38 AM
If your group is willing to try something different....Maid RPG is very simple.

Ozreth
2010-01-20, 02:44 AM
4e d&d is very easy to get into. Pick up the 4e starter set at barnes and noble for 15 bucks. Great place to start.

Ozreth
2010-01-20, 02:45 AM
There were some pretty good answers in your thread from yesterday (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138953), but I'll throw out gurps lite (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/).

Oooh ya....I thought this felt familiar!

Ichneumon
2010-01-20, 02:49 AM
There were some pretty good answers in your thread from yesterday (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138953), but I'll throw out gurps lite (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/).

Or what about gurps ultra lite (http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-0032)? It might be a bit too limitied, but it has the essentials.

Satyr
2010-01-20, 03:16 AM
You don't need Gurps lite; the full version is pretty optimal for new players (as I explained yesterday... I have a slight case of deja vu here).
Remember: Only because someone has not yet played an RPG, he or she is not an idiot, and assuming so is very condescending. Do you want to treat your friends like idiots? Usually not.
So go for a comfortable real RPG that is easy to learn and to use - and Gurps is very good in this regard, because it is a system that enables people to do what they want and doesn't shoehorn them into a certain stereotype - and use it.
Unfortunately, most simple games seem to be made for simple people and will treat you as if you need a roadmap to find your own feet. They are usually also just bad. I haven't seen yet a game targeted at casual gamers which was anything better than mediocre.

IonDragon
2010-01-20, 09:14 AM
This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137846) is a similar thread from a week or so ago, may be helpful as well.

Kylarra
2010-01-20, 11:03 AM
You don't need Gurps lite; the full version is pretty optimal for new players (as I explained yesterday... I have a slight case of deja vu here).
Remember: Only because someone has not yet played an RPG, he or she is not an idiot, and assuming so is very condescending. Do you want to treat your friends like idiots? Usually not.
So go for a comfortable real RPG that is easy to learn and to use - and Gurps is very good in this regard, because it is a system that enables people to do what they want and doesn't shoehorn them into a certain stereotype - and use it.
Unfortunately, most simple games seem to be made for simple people and will treat you as if you need a roadmap to find your own feet. They are usually also just bad. I haven't seen yet a game targeted at casual gamers which was anything better than mediocre.The reason I suggest GURPS-lite over GURPS is not out of condescension, but rather a more practical reason. GURPS-lite is free. GURPS in its entirety is not. So for the purposes of just trying out they system, free > expanded rules.

Psystar
2010-01-20, 12:46 PM
Thanks for the massive amounts of feedback guys, I now have the whole event mostly organized. You were a big help, I probably couldn't have done it without you.

Satyr
2010-01-20, 01:02 PM
So... what system are you going to use?

Psystar
2010-01-20, 10:11 PM
Mutants & Masterminds. My friends are comic book fans, I guess.

taltamir
2010-01-20, 10:36 PM
gurps lite is not only simple, its free:
http://www.sjgames.com/GURPS/lite/
32 pages only.

4e dnd is relatively simple too

Matthew
2010-01-21, 08:36 PM
Hero Quest and Advanced Hero Quest

These were my introduction to tabletop role-playing games. The idea that you could play a game where you controlled an imaginary character battling orcs and keep him from scenario to scenario was mind-blowing for my eleven year old self back in the early nineties. I was immediately convinced that it was the greatest game ever. If you can get hold of a copy of either of these games, but especially the basic version, they would make excellent introductions for younger beginning players, and the production values are ridiculously good. The same could pretty much be said of War Hammer Quest, but I do not have much experience with that. With computer games having taken the role-playing adventure concept and run with it, this is less likely to have as big an impact as it did twenty years ago, but still a reasonable choice for an introduction to tabletop gaming, as it has plenty of visual furniture.

War Hammer Fantasy Role-Play

Now available in three editions, I would say the third edition is pretty pricey for an introductory game, but on the other hand it has plenty of visceral stuff with it, so might be a good choice if you already have it. The first and second editions of the game are very similar, the main difference being the magic systems. If you can get a copy of the Enemy Within Campaign, that would be a pretty great introduction to tabletop role-playing games.

Original Dungeons & Dragons (1974-1977) [Swords & Wizardry]

The original game is a nightmare to get hold of in print, but the Swords & Wizardry simulacrum is generally available. Very simple and open ended rules that convey the basic ideas of Dungeons & Dragons. You cannot really go very far wrong with this, and Tomb of the Iron God is by all accounts a solid introductory adventure. The pdf version of the S&W rules is free to download so no problem with regards to rules distribution. The only downside is that you really need an experienced game master to run this, and he needs to be comfortable making a lot of stuff up.

Dungeons & Dragons B/X (1981-1983) [Labyrinth Lord]

A good bit easier to get hold of than the original, and comprised of a basic and expert booklet that makes for an excellent introduction to the game. Well explained, comprehensive, and very straightforward, you cannot really go wrong with a copy of B/X and B2 Keep on the Borderland. As an in print alternative, Labyrinth Lord is a great simulacrum of B/X all in one softback or hardback book that pretty much restates its predecessor with only very minor changes required for legal purposes. Get a copy of Idol of the Orcs and you are ready to rock.

Dragon Strike

A very corny "hyper-reality" video makes this one of the more entertainingly bad introductions to adventure games, but the actual system and components are perfectly serviceable. Nowhere near as high production values as Hero Quest, but somewhat more versatility in terms of adventure environments. The rules are not exactly the same as in Dungeons & Dragons, which makes its value as an introduction to the game questionable, but that is no less the case with Hero Quest and its relationship to War Hammer. A good introduction if you own it or it is all you can find, probably would not go out my way to find it.

Dragon Quest

A streamlined version of Dungeons & Dragons very much on the model of Hero Quest, which is to say plenty of dungeon crawling. Unfortunately the components are scant, though the board is durable. A reasonable introductory game, but again I would not go out of my way to acquire it for those purposes.

First Quest

The audio CD for this is hilarious, going from passable to terrible very frequently. Pretty much the same plastic hero figures from Dragon Strike, some character cards, and paper maps of the four adventure locations. For all that, this is actually a great introduction to AD&D, even explaining things that AD&D fails to do. The light focus on components is also quite good as it makes the transition easier from what might be imagined to be a board game to a tabletop adventure game that chiefly takes place in the imagination of the participants. If you plan on introducing a group to AD&D you could definitely do a lot worse than this.

Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy Adventure Board Game

This game has even less to do with the rules of D20/3e than Dragon Strike has to do with D&D. The components are sturdy enough, but again not as good as those in Hero Quest, possibly slightly better than those in Dragon Strike, but not really compatible with regular miniatures because they are made out of a kind of rubbery plastic that makes them more "toy-like", and probably less prone to breakage. I thought this game was way too easy, which I would probably say about Dragon Quest as well, come to think of it. A bit boring too. Best for introducing children to D20/3e, I think.

Castles & Crusades

Sometimes, rather unfairly and inaccurately, referred to as "D20 Lite", this is a rather good bridging game between D&D (1974-2000) and D20 D&D. It uses a simplified target number system that relies on a choice of "primary" and "secondary" attributes, as well as a good deal of game master fiat. The rules are available for free: Castles & Crusades Quick Start Rules (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=28543&it=1), and really do contain everything you need to play the game. If you donate $20 to the Haiti earthquake fund via RPGNow you will get pdfs of a low level C&C adventure and their Arms & Armour guide, which might be worth looking into. A pretty great introduction to any version D&D really, except I suppose D20/4e... hmmn, never really considered that before. Anyway, worth a look.