Late or Early?

[Tavar]

So, I was talking to my sister recently, and she revealed a rather interesting thought. She feels that it's rude to be early, and okay to be late. While this certainly explains her punctuality, I thought it might be interesting to get the playgrounds opinion on this.

[Innis Cabal]

Its better to be early then late. Its just how the working world works. Most jobs ask that your early rather than just on time. And frown on you being late. If someone is late to a dinner date, I'm rather annoyed. We're not talking 5 minutes for the latter example, but still. If your going to be late, call.

[reorith]

i make it a point to never make people wait for me based on the fact that i hate it when i have to wait for others. fifteen minutes early is already too late in my book.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Kind of depends. Work environment: Get there early.

Personal environment (someones house): Try not to get there too early. They might still be preparing things.

Really, I just make it a point to be on time. If you have the chance to be early, then you also have an equal chance of just getting there when you are supposed to.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Work or professional settings, be early, always.
Social situations...its better to be just a little bit late. Showing up early is considered incredibly rude.

Edit: NINJA'D

[Dr.Epic]

So, I was talking to my sister recently, and she revealed a rather interesting thought. She feels that it's rude to be early, and okay to be late. While this certainly explains her punctuality, I thought it might be interesting to get the playgrounds opinion on this.

Not really. You show up late you do all the following:

-lie about when it was agreed upon you'd be somewhere (this isn't true for all situations)
-keep someone waiting for a period of time
-throw another persons or persons schedules off

It also makes you look like you don't have your life together.

[Zeb The Troll]

I vastly dislike it when people are late. If I'm hosting a social engagement, I expect people to be there on time or even a little early. I hate being late to anything. If you show up early to my party/meetup/date I'll just ask that you not be upset that I may not be ready yet if it's not quite the appointed time (though I endeavor to be ready 30 minutes before the time I told people to be there). No one has ever gotten mad at me for being early. In fact, I once dated a girly who was habitually an hour late to all social occasions with our friends. To the point where they started giving us the wrong time so that we'd be there on time (clearly my friends don't appreciate people being late either). Imagine my embarrassment when I showed up an hour early the first time I showed up without her and learned the truth of things.

I've never heard anyone tell me it's rude to be early (certainly not incredibly rude), but most people I know find it rude to be late, even to social functions.

Short answer - Early is better than late, but don't go crazy about it.

[RabbitHoleLost]

:: shrugs:: I was always taught being early to a social situation was rude, because its sort of like taking advantage of someone's hospitality, much like staying late.
I myself prefer never to be late, but always on time, but, if given a choice in such a situation, I prefer to be a few minutes late.
Unless its a movie or something like that.

[starwoof]

I hate being early or late. I try to always be exactly on time when I am traveling somewhere under my own power. If I show up early I wait out of sight until it's time.

And when I'm relying on someone to drive me somewhere I pester them incessantly that we should be going faster to ensure we aren't late.:smallannoyed:

[Dr.Epic]

:: shrugs:: I was always taught being early to a social situation was rude, because its sort of like taking advantage of someone's hospitality, much like staying late.
I myself prefer never to be late, but always on time, but, if given a choice in such a situation, I prefer to be a few minutes late.
Unless its a movie or something like that.

That's true. For Parties and such being late is okay because those things last for hours and no one going to notice if you're ten or twenty minutes late.

I bet Gandalf never has to worry about this stuff. He arrives exactly when he means to.

[Dispozition]

I'm always one of the first people there unless I mess up, then I'm on time. I feel that it's always best to have spare time to kill just in case something goes wrong (such as missing public transport). I generally don't find people offended if I'm early, especially in social outings, since I just wait for other people.

The thing I'm always confused about is the whole fashionably late to parties thing. I once arrived to a part at 8:10 when the scheduled start time was 8. I was told I was early, and was hencely confused greatly. Anyone mind explaining that one to me?

[thubby]

early to a party is worse than being late
late to work/school is worse than early
late to a meeting or appointment is a hanging offense.



The thing I'm always confused about is the whole fashionably late to parties thing. I once arrived to a part at 8:10 when the scheduled start time was 8. I was told I was early, and was hencely confused greatly. Anyone mind explaining that one to me?

i think it came from trying to avoid being early and showing up when things were still being put together, or avoid being the first one there (which is generally boring)

[The Extinguisher]

Because

a) I live in a weird area
b) public transit sucks
and c) no one ever schedules events for then past the hour

I'm usually ridiculously early, or ridiculously late. I prefer the former. Plus, it got me in the good books at my old job, because I'd often be there an thirty minutes to an hour before I started.

[Ichneumon]

I'd say it is rude when you are more than 10 minutes too late or too early. It's best to be in that zone.

[Eldan]

Oh, great. Even more I can angst about in social situations. Now I even have to worry about not being too early. :smallannoyed:

[Temotei]

When you're late by an hour, that's pushing it too much, and that's when I'll start getting a little upset with no contact.

Early by over ten minutes and I'm usually kind of happy, but not over-excited, because I tend to do the dishes while waiting for people to come up.

[Alleine]

I arrive late unless the thing is time sensitive. Then I endeavor to arrive on time. Lateness is just my thing, granted its never more than half an hour, and if its half an hour then there were extenuating circumstances keeping me from arriving earlier.

Usually though, I'm all over the place. I try to leave at a certain time and end up misjudging entirely how long it will take me to get there.

Earliness I don't like. If I'm early I'm the first person there and then have to wait for everyone else either by myself or with one person and that just isn't as fun as arriving when all my friends are around.

[The Extinguisher]

I'd say it is rude when you are more than 10 minutes too late or too early. It's best to be in that zone.

That's the thing. It's so hard for me to be in that zone of time. I'm usually thirty minutes early to most things.

But at the same time, I'm also the kind of person that helps people set up and do things if I'm early, so that's not terrible, I guess.

[Thajocoth]

It depends.

You don't want to be late for work. You don't want to be early to a party.

[Icewalker]

A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.

[Pyrian]

Heh. Our collective pedantism wants to make sense of these discrepancies, but they're not really about making sense - they're about cultural expectations. Those expectations vary from context to context, and of course from culture to culture.

[Solaris]

Heh. Our collective pedantism wants to make sense of these discrepancies, but they're not really about making sense - they're about cultural expectations. Those expectations vary from context to context, and of course from culture to culture.

I had a post detailing the various nuances, but my browser ate it and I don't wanna re-do it. Basically, it boils down to familiarity with the host and formality of the setting.

[skywalker]

To the point where they started giving us the wrong time so that we'd be there on time (clearly my friends don't appreciate people being late either). Imagine my embarrassment when I showed up an hour early the first time I showed up without her and learned the truth of things.

My friend group does this to a particular friend. Occasionally he will show up at the appointed time, but 95% of the time he arrives 30 minutes after the time we told him, meaning right when we wanted him.

Anyway, I used to be late a lot, but then realized it was really crappy to do that to people. So I started arriving at the appointed time.

My personal pet peeve, however, is those who arrive early. If I wanted you there at 7:15, I would've told you 7:15, not 7:30. I understand you want to make sure you get there on time, but really, I'm not going to get there until 7:30, so I will feel like crap when I show up to learn you have been waiting for 15 minutes. I have one particular friend who always does this. I schedule a weekly meeting for 7:30 (it is always at 7:30) and he is always there at 7:15. It drives me crazy, because when I show up he looks at me like "where've you been?"

[Icewalker]

So, to actually answer the question...

I think that it really depends on the situation. Getting to work or the like? Arrive early. Whereas going to a big party for example (a general party, not a specific honor or some such) better to show up a little late when things are generally going, rather than early when the host may still be trying to set up and not be ready for people.

[arguskos]

Depends. I am early to school concerns, meetings, and a job. I am precisely on-time to interviews and parties. I am late to only very informal events where I am not actually expected to be on time (so, almost never).

Personally, I can't stand people who are habitually late. It's aggravating beyond reason. If you're going to be habitually late, warn me so I am not late because of it, thanks. :smallannoyed:

[Athaniar]

It's good to be early, but I'm almost always late...

[KuReshtin]

If it was for a social event, I almost never hear that someone gives a set time to be there. Usually, it's more of a guideline, like "Be there by around 7" or "Get there for some time between 7 and 7:30."
That usually gives people a bit of leeway when it comes to arrival time, and I've never heard that it would be considered rude to be there early.

Like Extinguisher said, if I get there early, I'm more likely to ask if there's anything I can do to help.
If I'm sorting something out and someone shows up before I'm ready, they can either help out, or just sit around, engaging in casual small talk while I get things ready and while we're waiting for the other guests to arrive. I wouldn't ever consider anyone to be rude for showing up early.

For business meetings, ALWAYS be there early. Being at a meeting five minutes early is five minutes too late. If I've been invited to a meeting, I would expect the person organising it to be there 10-15 minutes before the scheduled meeting time to get everything set up and be ready to kick things off at the specified time.

Same when it comes to work. If your working hours are 8am-4pm, that means you should strive to get to work 5-10 minutes early and make sure you're ready to face the first customer/take the first call/start crunching numbers at 8am. If you show up at exactly 8am, that means that you'll not be ready to start working until 5-10 minutes past the hour, which isn't what your employer pays you to do.

I'm annoyed at myself, and the public transport sstem around here, that I've been late for work the past few days, since I've had to take the bus to work since my car's in the shop. The bus that leaves at the same time I usually leave the house gets me in to work at just around 8am, which means that I really should aim for the previous bus, that leaves 20 miutes eralier, but I've been having trouble sleeping these past few weeks, so I usually don't wake up in the morning until about 5 minutes before that bus leaves, which means I don't have time to get ready to catch it. And it annoys me that I can't get up in time to catch the earlier bus.

Edit:
Wanted to add: Punctuality is the art of being late enough to still be there before anyone else shows up.

[Lioness]

Early

And my family is primary a late family, which aggravates me immensely.

To elaborate...

Work and school I generally like to arrive 15-20 minutes early.

Meetings with friends: 10 minutes each way. If I'm gonna be late, I let them know. When catching public transport, I'll allow an extra 15 minutes, but probably just find a park to read the extra time away if I didn't need it.

Dances: I want to get there on time. If I miss my favourite dance because we got there 15 minutes late, I'm gonna be annoyed.

Dinner parties and the like: Right on time. It's sort of rude to be early, because they might not be ready yet. It's rude to be late, because people might be waiting.

Other parties: My father and I had an argument about this. I told him a friend's birthday party started at 6. He went fine, and at quarter to 5 he went off somewhere, saying 'I should be home at around quarter past 6. I'll take you to the party then'
'Dad, it starts at 6. That means I want to get there at 6, not 6.30'
'Well, you should've told me that. Why should I assume that you want to get there on time?'

WTF?

Even to parties, I would rather be no more than 10 minutes late.

[Mauve Shirt]

Early. Which sadly none of my chauffeurs friends with cars seem to understand.

[Jack Squat]

I always end up being early. This isn't so much planned so much as it just happens. I've actually left for school 15 minutes late and arrived 5 minutes earlier than usual. The odd thing was, no, I wasn't speeding (well, no more than usual).

Plus I drive a black chevy suburban. I can just wait outside of wherever and occasionally talk into my watch. Tends to liven things up :smalltongue:

For events that take more time for the host preparing, or me meeting up with someone who takes awhile to get ready, I go out of my way to show up on time - as I don't want to be in the way. Of course, if I'm preparing for something, I'm ready about 2 hours ahead of time (save for cooked food), so I don't mind at all if people show up early. Don't really mind if people are late either, but it's nice to have them call and let me know they're going to be more than 10-15 minutes late - especially if they're meeting up with me to head somewhere. If I don't get a call, I assume someone's not showing, and continue without them.


skywalker: Where is that meeting this week, btw? I'll bring a book this time for beforehand, so no need to worry 'bout me :smallwink:

[Syka]

I'm a fan of being early. For class and work I get there between 10-15 minutes early. No exceptions. I get nervous if it's less than 10 minutes and I'm still on my way. This bothers Oz heh.

For social engagements I show up on time or 5 minutes early. I do my damndest to never be late. Lateness in those situations bothers me a great deal. Like we were supposed to meet some friends for a local Halloween street party thing and do dinner first for one of their birthdays. Oz and I were on time.

Half an hour later WE call them and they are at the Halloween store getting shoes or something for one of the girls. Be there soon. Call half an hour after that (so an hour late) and they are STILL there. Be there soon. We hopped in line for a table (their request). 45 minute to an hour wait.

They showed up 5 minutes before we got the table. One hour and 40 minutes late. I'm sorry but that is just wrong. And we were there for one of their birthdays. They didn't even bother to call us to let us know.

[KuReshtin]

One hour and 40 minutes late.

That's usually what we expect from a couple of friends who are ALWAYS late for everything.
We usually start up a pool of when people think they'll show up.
So if we're supposed to meet at 1PM, they usually call at 1:30 telling us that they're on their way (or will be soon). At that point, we bring up a piece of paper and a pen and start taking bets from people at what time they'll actually show up. I think the worst of their late arrivals were about 6 hours late.
Luckily, that's one of the times where we just spent the entire day at the pub, having fun and catching up, but still. :smallcool:

[Aedilred]

It depends on the context. In a professional situation I would endeavour never to be late without giving warning, which when you factor in the vagaries of travel means that I usually arrive early. In particular, for an interview you should always be at least ten minutes early at an absolute minimum and unless your job operates flexitime or is notably uncaring about exact punctuality (as mine currently is) I would always be on time. Apart from its being unprofessional to be routinely late, it's not unknown for ruthless companies to sack employees for being late, even only slightly, only once.

Social situations are a bit more nebulous. When I'm meeting someone to go out somewhere, it's best to be slightly early, but only by about five minutes or so. That way you don't embarrass them if they realise you've been waiting a long time for them, but you haven't made them wait around.

For a party involving numerous invited guests, I would aim to arrive later than the indicated start time unless I was intending to help out with preparation (which should be pre-arranged with the host, really). Depending on the scale and nature of the event, I'd aim to arrive between two and thirty minutes late. Obviously you don't want to keep people waiting, but arriving slightly late is often welcome, as it means there isn't a huge influx of guests all at once and the host has a chance to greet people individually and isn't overwhelmed.

If going round alone (or in a couple etc.) to someone's house I would try never to be early unless I'd warned them I would be, as there's a good chance they won't be ready. Five minutes early is ok, but I would try not to get there earlier than that (in fact, I'd wait round the corner if I accidentally got there earlier than that). On the other hand I'd try not to be more than five, at most ten, minutes late, depending on who the host was (some of my friends are more organised than others). Again, arriving exactly on time is ideal.

The general rule I try to abide by with social engagements is to inconvenience yourself rather than anyone else, while simultaneously not making it obvious that that's what you've done.

[valadil]

I usually go with early. But, I don't want to burden someone else by presenting myself before they're ready. So if I'm excessively early (meaning more than 10 minutes) I'll sit in the car, play with my iPhone, read a book, grab a coffee, etc rather than barging in before I'm wanted.

[Bouregard]

I usually go with early. But, I don't want to burden someone else by presenting myself before they're ready. So if I'm excessively early (meaning more than 10 minutes) I'll sit in the car, play with my iPhone, read a book, grab a coffee, etc rather than barging in before I'm wanted.

That's my way too.

To a social visit: usually I will arive in walking distance 5-10 minutes early and read something or take a quick walk around the area till it's time.

Work/ official: Punctual/early. "Be there 10 a.m." means be there ready for work 10 a.m. so I should probably arrive 15 minutes early.

Again NEVER BE LATE WITHOUT A EXCUSE

[Force]

For school/work/etc: always better to be early. My family has coined a term: 'the disappearing 15 minutes', that being the time you have between when you're getting ready to go and when you have to go to get there exactly on time. Before you know it, the 15 minutes is up, you're not ready, and you end up being late. Way too many things that can screw up for you to try to be somewhere exactly on time.

For personal things... eh. I'd rather show up 5-10 minutes early than the same late, if only because my few friends are easy about that and it means we get to hang out a bit longer. IF they're not ready, I'll pitch in and help them get ready.

[Gaelbert]

This site says to arrive five minutes before the hour set for a dinner. (http://www.oldandsold.com/articles05/business-6.shtml)
While this says never to be more than 10 minutes late. (http://www.gourmet-food-revolution.com/dinner-table-etiquette.html)
However, those are just for dinner parties. For other social events that aren't as time critical, I imagine being up to half an hour late should be acceptable.

[Partof1]

I prefer to be around 5 minutes early, but for parties, I usually hit around 5-10 minutes late.

[Kallisti]

Just a little bit early.

[Alarra]

I have the greatest intentions of being early to things, but usually end up late. I don't like being too early though, because I hate waiting around. And really, if you're habitually really early that can be annoying too. I have a client, for example, that always shows up at 4:30 for his 5:00 appt. I'm never ready to see him, as I have another client at 4 (who's usually late) and then I feel terribly guilty that he's been sitting in the waiting room.

Parties though, I tend to aim for later, because I hate being one of the first people there. It's always awkward.

School and work though? I like to be early, or at least on time. I carpooled with a friend sometimes to grad school and she would always show up at my place at the time we were supposed to be getting to class. She would also call me and say she was leaving, I would go downstairs to wait, and it'd be like 10-15 mins before she pulled up. (she lived maaaybe 3 blocks away) It was incredibly annoying.

[Hailphage]

As always, depends on the situation:

* Work - usually 5-10 mins early; however I try to avoid getting there even earlier (I'm a nurse BTW) as I find the previous shift just seems to dump work on me earlier. :smallannoyed:

* Social - depends on who it is; 1 friend I have who is an absolute stickler for time I would always turn up either right on time or a bit early; for most friends however I usually work on either arriving on time or just a couple of minutes late (up to 5 mins). Some friends who I know are pretty disorganised I might arrive even later, and of course if it's a big party with lots of people coming I wouldn't be bothered about turning up 10-15 mins late. I do try to avoid turning up early if I can help it as most people seem to be still running around getting themselves organised and being early often means having to sit around and wait which can get boring.

I've never heard of arriving early to a social gathering being construed as 'rude' unless someone was really REALLY early (like say 30 mins or something) which might catch the hosts off-guard if they're still organising things. Turning up really late (usually any later than 30-40 mins, without good reason) however I consider an insult - it's a waste of the hosts and other people's time.

When I organise things I always privately factor in 15 mins leeway for people to arrive a bit late but any later I find annoying.

[THAC0]

Entirely culturally dependent. Personally, I always arrive early, but don't enter until "time." Arriving late makes me physically uncomfortable.

[Pyrian]

I had a friend who showed up a half-hour late to his own birthday party. Everybody was shocked - we hadn't expected him for at least another 45 minutes! :smalltongue:

[Lioness]

My boyfriend's mum is always really. Like, really early. If she's taking me home, and I need to be home at 5, we'll leave her house at 4. And it only takes half an hour (or less) to get there.

Once she said she'd pick me up from my house at 5.30. I finished work at 3 and needed to get ready afterwards. She showed up at work at 2.30, ready to take me home. Then they took me to my place, and hung around while I got ready. Welcomed the lift and all that, but it was a bit 'well, I was going to take half an hour or so to get ready, and paint my nails, but now that you're here I have no more than 10 minutes...and I don't even know what I'm wearing.'

So it gets a bit irritating, but I have no right to complain because she's going out of her way to help me without me even asking.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I have the greatest intentions of being early to things, but usually end up late. I don't like being too early though, because I hate waiting around. And really, if you're habitually really early that can be annoying too. I have a client, for example, that always shows up at 4:30 for his 5:00 appt. I'm never ready to see him, as I have another client at 4 (who's usually late) and then I feel terribly guilty that he's been sitting in the waiting room.
This. Although recently I've learned to arrive exactly on the hour. I am, however, early if I find the event personally important (e.g. first date, job interview for a job I actually want, something where I want to make a great first impression... you get the point).

As for parties, it depends quite a bit on what kind of parties you usually go to. Seriously, if you frequent my kind of parties and arrive when people tell you to arrive, you're going to be smashed even before all the guests have shown up, since some people can often be 2-3 hours late (prior engagements and the like).

Meeting up friends and the like? My advice is to learn how punctual your friends are. For example I have this one friend... Suppose I have plans to meet him someplace (which is 1 hour away from where he lives). If I arrive there, wait for 10 minutes and call him, I will find that he's just getting ready to leave the house but he will be there really soon (his soon means another 1.5 hours). On the other hand, another friend I have is always 5-10 minutes early. To the point where it's sometimes funny - if I make plans to meet him outside his work after his shift is over, I'll arrive a few minutes early and find out he's been waiting for me for 10 minutes already.

Anyway, my point? If you're going to be more than a few minutes late, don't say "I'll be there in 5 minutes" when you know it'll be 15. Seriously, tell the other person and be honest. That way they can at least find something to do instead of stand at a street corner and look like an idiot.

[Sliver]

The further the place I intend to go to, the earlier I will get there.. But I have some friends that drive me crazy.. One of them especially..

If we plan on going out as a group and I meet him before that to go to the meeting place together, then he will always get out of the house about 10 minutes after the time he should have been there, making me wait for 30 minutes in the street.. It's like to him, "Meet you at 8" means "You should be ready and out at around 8"... He doesn't even care if it annoys anyone, he just nods and asks if I'm done..

[Felixaar]

Better early than late. Both my parents are habitually late, my mother especially so, and I've put some effort into making sure I'm always early. Of course this is never COMPLETELY avoidable, but I try and am often unnecessarily frustrated when I'm not.

[toasty]

I always attempt to be 5 minutes early if I'm meeting at one location to go to another (IE waiting for someone so we can take transportation together). I also like to be 5-10 minutes early when arriving at a social event.

However, living in a country that does not value being on time and having a lot of friends dependent on public transport and/or a car someone else owns, I'm used to people being anywhere from 10 minutes to a full hour late, depending on the situation.

An interesting example of this phenomenon is me and my friends meeting at the LAN Cafe to play DotA every friday. Everyone knows we are supposed to arrive at 3:30. But I have yet to see everyone there on time. Usually, me and my bro walk in at around 3:30ish to see one guy who was there before us, then we sit around and wait till 4. By 4:10 if no one has come we call/text people until they come. Usually by 5PM the entire group of people has arrived. :smallmad:

[skywalker]

As for parties, it depends quite a bit on what kind of parties you usually go to. Seriously, if you frequent my kind of parties and arrive when people tell you to arrive, you're going to be smashed even before all the guests have shown up, since some people can often be 2-3 hours late (prior engagements and the like).

This is a problem?!

[RandomNPC]

I prefer from ten minuets ealy to five minuets late. That's if you're coming to my house.
Work? 10-15 early just in case.
Other peoples houses? I work later than everyone else so i head over as soon as i get dinner in my belly.

anything I've gotta spiffy up for (like the jury duty that got canceled) I show up ten minuets early, if i'm not coming from work the same applies.

so basicly a re-hash of almost every other post here huh?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

As a family, we're usually chronically early. For example, we were going to a family friend's annual christmas party, which we hadn't gone to for years and years. We arrived exactly on time, because there was lots of traffic on the roads out of the city. Turned out it was lucky, because we got there just after the host arrived at the cottage.

On the other hand, at parties, I manage to be fashionably late: I believe half an hour late is good at the parties I go to. I still think ME got drunk before ANY of the guests arrive, but whatev.

[jlvm4]

So, I was talking to my sister recently, and she revealed a rather interesting thought. She feels that it's rude to be early, and okay to be late. While this certainly explains her punctuality, I thought it might be interesting to get the playgrounds opinion on this.

I would say it doesn't matter if you are within 5 minutes or so of the scheduled time. This is what I shoot for, except in the cases of a show or performance where early is always better, because the show starts on time and someone is likely waiting on you before they go in. In those cases, I try to be there in plenty of time to meet up and sit, even if traffic is bad.

In general, I prefer early to late unless I know for certain there is a planned 'gathering' time built in, in which case I'm on time or a late.

I try (now I have 3 kids, so the best laid plans of mice and men and all that...) to be early mostly because I think it is rude to the host to be overly late. The host has spent a great deal of time and effort on food, entertainment, and what not and planned it all with their start time in mind. If you are really late, then you disrupt things for them and everyone else.

That being said, if I arrive too early (I would say more than ten minutes at maximum), I will sit in the car and read or otherwise occupy myself until it is closer to the start time, because the host may not be ready for guests yet. Nothing's worse than trying to take out the last bag of trash or set the table or order the pizza with people looming over you waiting to get started.

This all goes out the window mind you, if you know the host. In which case, go with what you know they expected and planned for.

[Coplantor]

To the OP: Here in Uruguay, when someone says, "Come around 8:00 PM" you can expect the first person to arrive at 8:30 and most of the guests at 9:00.
This is a mix of beign embarrased of beign the first one to arrive and the fact that, we are lazy. If you want someone to be at some place at 9:00, you gotta tell him to arrive at 8:30. Wich can lead to troubles when you really need to be punctual.