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Rainbownaga
2010-01-19, 05:40 AM
Not all are born with the capacity or the persistence to use magic, and this very exclusivity brings hate. There are those whose hatred for magic makes them eschew its use and curse those who practice in it. Others hate it with such vindication they twist the few threads of which they can grasp and turn it against itself. These, most vindictive of individuals call themselves Witchhunters, and the product of these perversions are their dolls

New Feat: Craft Witchhunters' Doll.
Prerequisite: Non-good alignment. Mageslayer. At least one other feat with Mageslayer as a prerequisite.
Effect: You learn a ritual to create a Witchhunter's doll and bind it to yourself (see ritual below). You share a telepathic bond with the doll, allowing you to communicate and issue commands at distances up to 500 feet. The doll is perfectly loyal, and while you cannot see out of its eyes, you can The doll uses its own ability scores, but its hitpoints are raised to half that of the Witchhunter it is bound to. Should the doll be destroyed or dismissed you are shaken for five minutes (no save) and cannot create another for seven full days.

Special: When this feat is chosen, the creator gains a penalty of 4 to caster level and a -10 penalty to Use Magic Device checks. Creating such an abomination is an evil act, but there is no penalty for a neutral aligned character possessing such a doll. Characters cannot become good aligned as long as they retain an active Witchhunters' doll.

Witchhunter's Doll
Small Aberration
HD 1d8+1 (5HP)
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares)
Init: +0
AC X; touch X; flat-footed X
(AC DETAILS)
BAB +0; Grp -4
Attack Knife -2 melee (d3-3;19-20)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Magic Draining Field
Special Qualities Antimagic Field; True Seeing
Saves Fort +1 Ref +0 Will +3
Abilities Str 4, Dex 11, Con 12, Int -, Wis 12, Cha 12
Skills
Feats
Environment
Organization
Challenge Rating 1/4
Alignment Neutral
Advancement special
Level Adjustment -

Resembling a small human child with red glowing eyes, these are actually soulless abominations, creations of those hypocrites who would sink to any level to remove magic from the world.

The Witchhunters' doll needs to eat, sleep and breathe like a normal child. The dolls are only proficient with knives, and are completely mute.

Antimagic Field A Witchhunters' doll is always surrounded by an antimagic field which extends for 10' from the doll. This ability functions as the spell cast by a level 30 caster.

Magic Draining Field Anyone with 500' of a Witchhunter's doll that wishes to use a spell or spell like ability including those from items must use twice the usual number of charges, uses, or spell slots. Should the item or caster be unable to supply the spell or item twice (such as casting from a scroll, drinking a potion, or a wizard that has only prepared a spell once) the use is wasted to no effect. This ability can be deactivated as a standard action.

The Ritual
The process for creating a Witchhunters' doll varies from individual to individual, no two 'rituals' are identical, though they typically fit into two main types.

The simplest form involves crude chanting, meditation and the carving of runes. At the culmination, the practitioner forces their hate and their very life essences to disrupt the natural flow of magic. The resulting tangle of magical energy is a child that forms before them, typically angelic in appearance and revealing something of their true nature. This form of ritual takes 24 hours and the Witchhunter loses 100xp per level.

Alternatively, a human form can be pre-prepared, and corrupted magical energies can be forced into them. This destroys the child's soul forever, preventing resurrection. This ritual can only be performed on a child that has been rendered helpless (typically through binding or drugging) and cannot be performed non-humans nor anyone who has reached puberty. This additional material component replaces the xp cost and reduces the time to 4 hours. The doll resembles the child but with glowing eyes.

Note that while the second process is far more evil, both processes involve the channeling of corrupt energies

Recent Changes:
added spoilers
added rituals
removed xp cost for losing doll (replaced with increased cost of creation)
added shaken effect for doll lost and time delay for re-summoning

Debihuman
2010-01-19, 08:56 AM
Interesting, obviously it is still a work in progress.

I'd hate to have to waste a feat that can only be used once to create a doll though. To complicate things, crafting things is a Skill not a Feat. The more appropriate name would be Create Witchhunter's Doll. However, I fail to see why you couldn't use Create Wondrous Item to make one of these. I see, you were trying to get around having a wizard make one of these so only a martial character would have one. It still righteously sucks having a feat that you can effectively use only once.

Since the doll is animated by the creator's essence, it is a living creature so perhaps instead of it being an aberration (usually reserved for weird things that have tentacles or really alien mindsets) this probably should be a Construct with the Living Subtype.

CR is definitely less than 1 The challenge rating system is set against the party of 4. Obviously, a single first-level fighter with no magic at all would be able to kill one of these. I'd guess the CR is closer to 1/4. Of course, the owner is another story but the owner would have his or her own CR.

Debby

DracoDei
2010-01-19, 12:09 PM
This is powerful enough against casters to be worth the feat. The first power is nasty enough, but the second will usually shut down a Batman's spell slots.

Mulletmanalive
2010-01-19, 01:00 PM
Is there a particular campaign reason why only evil characters would want to be able to thoroughly suppress magic and then disable the wielder?

I mean, creating a golem isn't even a non-good act and causes insanity and enslaved, numb torture for the animal plus intellect elemental bound inside. This thing's fluff makes it sound like the creator decants his hate into the creature, making it thoroughly unpleasant and him actually NICER. Sure, the thing's a monster, but it's easily enough dealt with should it turn on the master.

On side notes, this would probably be a Construct. Why? Because a Homonculous with similar fluff is, as is a Bogun. Both are sufficiently tied to the life force of their creater to die when he's killed, though.

Does the thing need to eat, sleep or breathe? Could i keep it locked in lead box? Would that have any affect on it's field? As it is, i wouldn't feel comfortable about leaving this thing tied to a tree while i went away to get healed by my ally...or even just to allow by Fast Healing to kick in...

sigurd
2010-01-19, 03:02 PM
I don't really like the 30th level anti magic field. It seems monolithic.

Why not make it the creators level +X?

Leeham
2010-01-19, 04:20 PM
I think if it's Evil only, then it should be any non-good. Which makes sense because they're made out of hate (not literal hate obviously, it's kinda hard to sculpt with things as abstract as emotions y'know).

Rainbownaga
2010-01-19, 09:57 PM
Interesting, obviously it is still a work in progress.

Indeed, and I am thankful for any help or advice I can get


I'd hate to have to waste a feat that can only be used once to create a doll though.

Technically you can use it again if your doll is destroyed and you repeat the ritual. The fluff text suggests otherwise, but I agree that losing a feat because a monster attacks your pet is a bad idea.


To complicate things, crafting things is a Skill not a Feat. The more appropriate name would be Create Witchhunter's Doll.However, I fail to see why you couldn't use Create Wondrous Item to make one of these. I see, you were trying to get around having a wizard make one of these so only a martial character would have one.

That is exactly my reason. I wanted to create a feat to create a scissor-paper-rock game between casters and fighters, and give 'muggles' a chance. Allowing a caster to bypass the requirements by using craft wonderous item or craft construct would defeat the purpose, even if said casters wouldn't benefit as much from the abilities as a non-caster.

Calling it crafting rather that creating: Although you may be right, I feel it helps


Since the doll is animated by the creator's essence, it is a living creature so perhaps instead of it being an aberration (usually reserved for weird things that have tentacles or really alien mindsets) this probably should be a Construct with the Living Subtype.

This is something I agonized over. Initially they were supposed to be undead, but the immunity to critical hits put me off, as did the blatent need to actually kill to gather the spirit. I might have picked constructs, but for the simple reason they were even more complicated. Fey and elemental were other contenders when it was going to be a 'summon doll' feat.

I finally chose aberration because it is an unnatural being with unusual abilities; despite looking predominantly like a child, it is a creature born of the corruption of natural magic ("the weave" for forgotten realm settings).


CR is definitely less than 1 The challenge rating system is set against the party of 4. Obviously, a single first-level fighter with no magic at all would be able to kill one of these. I'd guess the CR is closer to 1/4. Of course, the owner is another story but the owner would have his or her own CR.

Thank you, I'll change this. I agree, even a level 1 wizard should have little difficulty killing an unbound one of these things. The point of the being is their function as a familiar and I only included this in the rare case they were encountered alone.


This is powerful enough against casters to be worth the feat. The first power is nasty enough, but the second will usually shut down a Batman's spell slots.

Thank you. It's good to hear that the creature is effective as written. I wanted to have a creature that could ruin a spellcaster's day in a way roughly corresponding to their power level, and make something that the PC's will deliberately target to enable their casters to function properly.

Incidentally the anti-magic field was designed to be as much a nerf to the doll as its victims; its very existance prevents the doll from being loaded up with all the party's left over items.


Is there a particular campaign reason why only evil characters would want to be able to thoroughly suppress magic and then disable the wielder?

Creation of these abominations involves the corruption of the magic that underlies the natural order of the world. Additionally they are freaky child slaves; it seems a unwritten rule of fantasy that anyone who owns a freaky child-slave isn't on the shortlist for new paladins. Additionally, it is left open whether the crafting requires an actual child as an ingredient.


Does the thing need to eat, sleep or breathe? Could i keep it locked in lead box? Would that have any affect on it's field? As it is, i wouldn't feel comfortable about leaving this thing tied to a tree while i went away to get healed by my ally...or even just to allow by Fast Healing to kick in...

The doll needs to eat, sleep and breathe like a normal human child, but doesn't ever age; I'll have to add that to my description.

The field effects everything within 500', but can be suppressed as a standard action (I forgot to include that it can also be resumed as a standard action). I don't know why you would need to it to a tree when it can be commanded to go a short distance away to avoid interference with its anti-magic field.


I don't really like the 30th level anti magic field. It seems monolithic.

Why not make it the creators level +X?

The only time this is relevant (that I am aware of) is when someone is attempting to disjoin the anti magic field. By the time the wizard can do that (either from over 500' away or by casting the spell twice) they really don't need any more help. By the time a 30th level AMF is trivial to overcome, the game is probably broken beyond recognition. Does an AMF's caster level ever make any difference?

Note that this field cannot be suppressed and thus prevents the doll from using items that would make its life much easier.

Debihuman
2010-01-20, 05:02 AM
This has too many drawbacks to implement in game. Not only do you lose a feat slot, but in taking the feat you take a additional penalty of 4 to caster level (since you already take that penalty from the Mageslayer Feat) AND you take a -10 penalty to UMD.

The cost of the feat is just too high to ever want to use it. I recommend dropping the Special requirements altogether. They just make the feat far less appealing. I understand that you want a creation feat that isn't magical, but I think you are going the wrong way with it. You rely too heavily on the familiar model and that is tied to spellcasters. This should be the antithesis of that. Don't forget Familiars are summoned. This is created, more like a homunculus.

Here is my suggestion for the creation process:



New Feat: Create Witchhunter's Doll
Prerequisite: Non-good alignment. Mageslayer feat [From Complete Arcane] At least one other feat with Mageslayer as a prerequisite.
Effect: By creating the spark of life in a process requiring 24 hours and 100 gp worth of components, you can create a witchhunter's doll and bind it to yourself.
Special: The witchhunter's doll serves as a companion and servant. Should the doll be slain, the owner must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per level; success reduces the loss to one-half that amount. However, the owner's experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of the doll's destruction. A character can only have one Witchhunter's doll at any one time and only if they have this feat.

Creating such an abomination is an evil act, but there is no penalty for a neutral aligned character possessing such a doll. Characters cannot become good aligned as long as they retain an active witchhunter's doll.

Construction
A witchhunter's doll is sewn from fresh human flesh and stuffed with a mixture of straw, salt and one pint of the creator’s own blood. A miniature silver lightning bolt is placed inside the doll where the heart would be. The materials cost 100 gp. The creature’s master may assemble the body or hire someone else to do the job. Creating the body requires a DC 12 Craft (sewing) check or a DC 12 Profession (Tailor) check.

After the body is put together, it is animated through a process which uses lightning to create a spark of life in a specially prepared laboratory or workroom, similar to an alchemist’s laboratory and costing 500 gp to establish. If the creator is personally constructing the creature’s body, the building and life-giving process can be performed together.

Designer Note: the salt is a preservative and the silver lightning bolt just pays homage to the life giving properties of lightning as seen in the Frankenstein movies.


Edit: changed construction from cloth to human flesh just to make it more disgusting. Edited again so that the flesh is fresh so that it looks human and doesn't look like a rotting corpse.

Debby

Mulletmanalive
2010-01-20, 05:04 AM
See, the lack of a description for the creation process in the actual entry makes it sound like this was basically a version of Weird Science with some blood-letting on the part of the maker.

There is no hint anywhere that there is a child involved or that this thing is sentient by any normal listing.

One key thing is that you'll want to include weight and bulk measurements for it; by far the most effective way of hauling it around is in a parpous/backpack where it's less vulnerable to direct attack because your armoured butt is in the way. Similar thing to the Slaymate.

Demented
2010-01-20, 05:58 AM
Instead of a flat 500', what about something that scales, such as 30' per character level? (600' at 20th level)
It seems strange that the feat itself imposes penalties, even if the creation of a doll hasn't been undertaken.


Creation of these abominations involves the corruption of the magic that underlies the natural order of the world. Additionally they are freaky child slaves; it seems a unwritten rule of fantasy that anyone who owns a freaky child-slave isn't on the shortlist for new paladins. Additionally, it is left open whether the crafting requires an actual child as an ingredient.
Evil generally involves the destruction or damaging of life. Unless the campaign setting associates life with magic, it wouldn't be evil to mess with magic. On the other hand, it might be evil to do something harmful with your own life force, or if the doll itself were evil-aligned. ("Are they supposed to froth at the mouth like that?")

Debihuman
2010-01-20, 06:39 AM
See, the lack of a description for the creation process in the actual entry makes it sound like this was basically a version of Weird Science with some blood-letting on the part of the maker.

I think that was the intention.


There is no hint anywhere that there is a child involved or that this thing is sentient by any normal listing.

Again, I think that was intentional.


One key thing is that you'll want to include weight and bulk measurements for it; by far the most effective way of hauling it around is in a parpous/backpack where it's less vulnerable to direct attack because your armoured butt is in the way. Similar thing to the Slaymate.

Agreed. If you see my previous entry (now complete), you'll see where I updated the information and statblock. I tried to make it as close as I could to the original while adding a lot of detail.

Debby

Mulletmanalive
2010-01-20, 07:32 AM
Deb, I was going on Rainbownaga's responses to me in the above post. I was commenting that she had stated that the thing was an abomination but being soul-less doesn't indicate evil in D&D because there are feats that allow for such things that have no such strictures [see Psychic HoleEPH]

Your version is infinitely less pleasant a prospect, but i'm still not entirely clear why anti-magic = evil in the first place, your critter being an inverted Slaymate non-withstanding.

Classically, magic has been sourced from at least dubious sources and the source of catacylsmic ruin so i'm just wondering why the whole "magic is a fundamental of nature and working against it is wrong" bit came from. That's not even the portrayed attitude to magic in core...

Debihuman
2010-01-20, 10:08 AM
Deb, I was going on Rainbownaga's responses to me in the above post. I was commenting that she had stated that the thing was an abomination but being soul-less doesn't indicate evil in D&D because there are feats that allow for such things that have no such strictures [see Psychic HoleEPH]

The stricture is in place simply because (and I'm making a wild guess here) Rainbownaga wanted it that way. There's really nothing wrong with saying that the creation of a witchfinder doll is considered an evil act. However, I agree that she failed to back that statement up.


Your version is infinitely less pleasant a prospect, but i'm still not entirely clear why anti-magic = evil in the first place, your critter being an inverted Slaymate non-withstanding.

I had forgotten about the slaymate (from Libris Mortis). I actually had the Zuni Fetish Doll from Trilogy of Terror in mind when I was thinking about this --minus the wicked teeth of course.


Classically, magic has been sourced from at least dubious sources and the source of catacylsmic ruin so i'm just wondering why the whole "magic is a fundamental of nature and working against it is wrong" bit came from. That's not even the portrayed attitude to magic in core...

Blame the Greeks and Romans and then The Middle Ages. When ancient civilizations had no answers scientifically, they attributed the matter to the gods and magic. Lightning came from Zeus' thnderbolt from Olympus. Orichalcum was mystical substance that was mined in Atlantis.* The stuff of legends is powerful and often dangerous. he goddess Hecate of magic and witches is probably where the association of magic and evil began, with her association of the Underworld.

Fast forward to The Middle Ages and you'll find Christianity viewing magic as a sign of the devil and anyone presumed to be a practitioner was a heretic and a danger to society. I don't think you need a history lesson of the Inquisition.

Beyond the real world examples, you have common literature. The idea that magic is not to be trusted is a common enough trope in books and movies. For example, in the TV series Merlin Prince Arthur's father King Uther Pendragon (played by Anthony Stewart Head of Buffy fame) has banned the use of magic in his kingdom. The calling of Mammon in the movie, The Craft, demonstrates the power of magic. While it can be used as a force of Good, it is more often used for personal gain and that is considered Evil even by modern standards. Even good witches struggle with this as the TV series Charmed demonstrated. One of the things that the sisters could not do was use their power for person gain--no buying winning lottery tickets or betting on races without the fabric of the universe being rent and the backlash coming back at them. The adage "power corrupts" is exactly what witchcraft embodies. Hence the Good Witch Creed, "Do As Thou Wilt And Harm None."

Debby

*No doubt this explains such things as Wonderflonium (from Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog) Unobtainium (from the recent Avatar movie), Kryptonite (from the Superman franchise), even Upsidaisium (from Rocky and Bullwinkle). Of course, I cannot omit D&D's own Adamantine. The similarity in names is no mere coincidence.

Mulletmanalive
2010-01-20, 10:57 AM
That big lot of examples all, amusingly, back up what i said; it's an unusual precident for magic to be good and fundamental at a human level. Even amongst most of the modern witches i've interviewed "do as you will and harm no other" had tended to boil down to "oh god, don't try casting anything because the results will inevitably harm someone!"

No, you don't have to give me a lesson about the Inquisition as I did a paper on them. Ironically, they didn't seem to be nearly as bad as people make out outside certain backwater areas. The whole Galileo thing is actually fascinating as they didn't burn him for his science at all. Another day, another board though.

But yeah, killing someone to make an antimagic node is evil. It's necromancy. Renaissance meaning there.

Golden-Esque
2010-01-20, 11:16 AM
Not all are born with the capacity or the persistence to use magic, and this very exclusivity brings hate. There are those whose hatred for magic makes them eschew its use and curse those who practice in it. Others hate it with such vindication they twist the few threads of which they can grasp and turn it against itself. These, most vindictive of individuals call themselves Witchhunters, and the product of these perversions are their dolls

New Feat: Craft Witchhunters' Doll.
Prerequisite: Non-good alignment. Mageslayer. At least one other feat with Mageslayer as a prerequisite.
Effect: By performing a ritual requiring 24 hours and 100g worth of components, you can create a Witchhunter's doll and bind it to yourself. Use the rules for a sorcerer/wizard's familiar with the exception that it has only one third the hit points (instead of 1/2), Character level is used instead of Class level, and spells or effects cannot be shared. A character can only have one Witchhunter's doll at any one time and only if they have this feat.
Special: When this feat is chosen, the creator gains a penalty of 4 to caster level and a -10 penalty to Use Magic Device checks. Should the doll be slain, the owner suffers the usual penalty for losing a familiar and the usual cost of creating a new one. Creating such an abomination is an evil act, but there is no penalty for a neutral aligned character possessing such a doll. Characters cannot become good aligned as long as they retain an active Witchhunters' doll.

Witchhunter's Doll
Small Aberration
HD 1d8+1 (5HP)
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares)
Init: +0
AC X; touch X; flat-footed X
(AC DETAILS)
BAB +0; Grp -4
Attack Knife -2 melee (d3-3;19-20)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Magic Draining Field
Special Qualities Antimagic Field; True Seeing
Saves Fort +1 Ref +0 Will +3
Abilities Str 4, Dex 11, Con 12, Int -, Wis 12, Cha 12
Skills
Feats
Environment
Organization Bonded Pair (1 plus martial character)
Challenge Rating 1 (Normally only as familliar)
Treasure X gold; X gems; X art; X magical items
Alignment Neutral
Advancement as famililar
Level Adjustment -

Resembling a small human child with red glowing eyes, these are actually soulless abominations, creations of those hypocrites who would sink to any level to remove magic from the world.


Antimagic Field A Witchhunters' doll is always surrounded by an antimagic field which extends for 10' from the doll. This ability functions as the spell cast by a level 30 caster.

Magic Draining Field Anyone with 500' of a Witchhunter's doll that wishes to use a spell or spell like ability including those from items must use twice the usual number of charges, uses, or spell slots. Should the item or caster be unable to supply the spell or item twice (such as casting from a scroll, drinking a potion, or a wizard that has only prepared a spell once) the use is wasted to no effect. This ability can be deactivated as a standard action.

If its crafted, wouldn't the Creature Type "Construct" be more appropriate?

Debihuman
2010-01-20, 05:10 PM
No, you don't have to give me a lesson about the Inquisition as I did a paper on them. I

Whew! Cuz, then we'd really be off-topic! :smallbiggrin:


But yeah, killing someone to make an antimagic node is evil. It's necromancy. Renaissance meaning there.

Gotcha.

Vile feats require an evil alignment, but the Create (or Craft if you go by the original post) Witchhunter's Doll feat only requires a non-good alignment. You could be lawful neutral and still be able to create a witchhunter's doll. The creative process doesn't necessarily include having to kill someone. In the original post, there's no mention of creating the doll from people at all, although you could infer that the dolls have to get their likeness of a human child from somewhere. My more graphic description has the necessity of human flesh but presumably the flesh of a person who died from natural causes could be used. Of course, some folks might view the flaying of a corpse as a desecration of the body. Points of view on this sort of behavior can vary wildly.

Debby

Rainbownaga
2010-01-20, 11:57 PM
Thanks for the help so far everyone.

As far as the creation process, I've decided to keep them as aberrations and go with more of a 'dark, cthulhueseque ritual' path rather than a 'Frankensteinian, mad scientist' approach.

As for the 'evil' you have been discussing, it's more of a 'raise dead' or 'mindrape' evil than a 'destroying the souls of children' evil (though I've added the latter for those that way inclined).

I tend to follow the idea of magic being the life force that holds the universe together (the Force in Starwars, the manastream in Final Fantasy, or the weave in forgotten realms) and that deliberately trying to destroy it is not only a bad idea, but the mark of an evil mind.

Please continue to EACH :smallsmile:

Debihuman
2010-01-21, 05:54 AM
You need to proofread your construction feat.
You don't need to have your stuff in spoilers. I used spoilers because I didn't want people looking at my changes without looking at your creation first.
Your creature is still missing AC. You should probably give it natural armor of 1 or 2 but no more than that.

Due to the limitations of the creation feat, I doubt you'll get a lot of feedback.

Debby

jiriku
2010-01-22, 02:14 PM
Yep, needs AC. For its feat, I'd recommend Lightning Reflexes or Great Fortitude. Was going to suggest Toughness but then I saw that it never uses its normal hit point total. Skills should include Balance, Climb, Listen, Spot, and Tumble.

I would tend to lean against making it mindless, as aberrations generally aren't mindless. However, if you do leave it mindless, the statblock should note that it gains immunity to mind-affecting effects.