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SethFahad
2010-01-19, 05:57 AM
A warlock in our campaign says he can use the following feats with his EB.

EMPOWER SPELL-LIKE ABILITY
QUICKEN SPELL-LIKE ABILITY
MAXIMIZE SPELL-LIKE ABILITY

I said that he can't.

So who is right?

Zeta Kai
2010-01-19, 06:01 AM
Well, that all depends. Are you the DM?

kamikasei
2010-01-19, 06:02 AM
Well, it is a spell-like ability. On what basis do you say he can't use them?

Eldan
2010-01-19, 06:04 AM
By the rules, he can use them, as they are spell-like abilities. He has to fulfill the requirements to take them, of course.

Now, if you are the DM, you are of course allowed to prohibit their use, but you should be aware that, generally, they don't really overpower a warlock.

Runestar
2010-01-19, 06:08 AM
Do take note that complete arcane has errata stating that eldritch blast now has a base lv of 1, which can in turn be modified by applying invocations to it. This would allow it to be modified by meta-SLA feats.

Eloel
2010-01-19, 06:10 AM
A warlock in our campaign says he can use the following feats with his EB.

EMPOWER SPELL-LIKE ABILITY
QUICKEN SPELL-LIKE ABILITY
MAXIMIZE SPELL-LIKE ABILITY

I said that he can't.

So who is right?

By RAW? He is. If you are the DM, you are right.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-01-19, 06:13 AM
The warlock is right, all of those feats can be used with Eldritch Blast as long as he meets the prerequisite caster level for each.

Maximize Spell-Like Ability in Complete Arcane specifically lists a Warlock maximizing his Eldritch Blast as an example of its use. The designers intended for these feats to work with Eldritch Blast, so it would be a bit unfair to disallow their use.

Note that the Complete Arcane errata (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) changes Eldritch Blast so that it is always considered a 1st level spell-like ability, rather than having a spell level equal to half your Warlock level. Therefore, Maximize and Empower Spell-Like Ability can be taken for Eldritch Blast as early as caster level 6, and Quicken Spell-Like Ability is available at caster level 10. As long as he meets the caster level requirements, he can take these feats for Eldritch Blast.

Cyclocone
2010-01-19, 06:16 AM
A: It's our intent that you should be able to take the feat Quicken Spell-like Ability (eldritch blast) and use it on any variation of your eldritch blast you care to use.

From here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19520666/Warlock_Faq_by_Rich_Baker).

kamikasei
2010-01-19, 06:17 AM
By RAW? He is. If you are the DM, you are right.

I don't like this response. The DM is automatically right about how the rules work at his table. That doesn't mean he's magically always correct about what the rules actually say. Blurring the distinction creates problems.

SethFahad
2010-01-19, 06:17 AM
Yes I'm the DM.
By RAW he can't.

EB description:


Eldritch blast (sp)
...
An eldritch blast is the equivalent of a spell whose level is equal to one-half the warlock's class level (round down), with a minimum spell level of 1st and a maximum of 9th when a warlock reaches 18th level or higher.

The following feat description aplies to all three of feats:


EMPOWER SPELL-LIKE ABILITY
...
The creature can only select a spell-like ability duplicating a spell with a level less than or equal to half its caster level (round down) minus 2.
...
For example, a creature that uses its spell-like abilities as a
13th-level caster can only empower spell-like abilities
duplicating spells of 4th level or lower.

So if he's f.e. a 8th level warlock, his EB is equal to 4th level spell.
And for the same level warlock the meta feats aply only to 4 - 2 = 2nd level spells.

Eloel
2010-01-19, 06:20 AM
By RAW he can't.

By RAW, he can.


“An eldritch blast is the equivalent
of a 1st-level spell. If you apply a blast shape or eldritch
essence invocation to your eldritch blast (see page 130),
your eldritch blast uses the level equivalent of the shape
or essence.”

Errata is found here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/CompArcaneErrata03162005.zip)

SethFahad
2010-01-19, 06:32 AM
By RAW, he can.


Errata is found here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/CompArcaneErrata03162005.zip)

Hmm.. I wasn't aware of errata. I guess he's right then.

Ok, I'll tell him (lucky bastard) he's "errata saved"...

Ty guys.