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Burley
2010-01-19, 10:40 AM
I have an idea of casting Chained Launch Bolt to fire multiple crossbow bolts which just happen to also be Spell-Storing bolts, with Scorching Ray.
I imagine setting up my campsite with conveniently placed hordes of bolts to turn enemies into smoldering pin-cushions.
So, question one: Is it possible put metamagics on 0-level spells? I think so, but gotta ask first.
Question two: How would, if at all, Chain Spell react to Launch Bolt? The feat only references spells that target creatures and such things. But, Launch Bolt is, indeed, a targeted spell, the target being a bolt within medium-range.
Question three: If I were multiclassing Sorceror-or-Wizard and Rogue, is there anyway I could slap Sneak Attack Damage onto all these beautiful attacks? I believe if I launched them all from my square and the opponent was unaware of my presence, I could, but... if the opponent was unaware the bolts' presence in the bushes, would they be flat-footed to the non-existant archer firing upon them?

arguskos
2010-01-19, 10:41 AM
1. Yes, you can meta cantrips.
2. I believe it would chain to a lot of nearby valid targets.
3. Uh... ask your DM this one.

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-19, 10:44 AM
3: If it requires an attack roll, you can Sneak Attack with Launch Bolt.



Want a little tip? You can fire Crossbow Bolts larger than your own body. grab a Gargantuan Bolt or three, and watch the DM cringe as you fling tress with a Cantrip.

Protecar
2010-01-19, 10:46 AM
This actually sounds like a fun idea. How does this "chaining" thing work though? I tried looking up the proper metamagic but no luck. :smallconfused:

Burley
2010-01-19, 10:49 AM
Want a little tip? You can fire Crossbow Bolts larger than your own body. grab a Gargantuan Bolt or three, and watch the DM cringe as you fling tress with a Cantrip.

I remember a lot of threads suggesting this, but, in my mind's heart, I know that there comes a size when a "bolt" ceases to be a "bolt".

Besides, increasing the size of a single die is not worth the cost of constructing tree-size masterwork +1 Spell-Storing bolts, and hiring the caravans to lug them around. :smallwink:


This actually sounds like a fun idea. How does this "chaining" thing work though? I tried looking up the proper metamagic but no luck. :smallconfused:
Chaining is in Complete Arcane. It lets you have your targeted spells effect secondary and tertiary targets, but you cast it from a spell slot three levels higher.

I'm considering taking Arcane Thesis on Launch Bolt. I know... silly idea, but I think I'd be able to chain more for less spell slots.

Deth Muncher
2010-01-19, 10:50 AM
3: If it requires an attack roll, you can Sneak Attack with Launch Bolt.



Want a little tip? You can fire Crossbow Bolts larger than your own body. grab a Gargantuan Bolt or three, and watch the DM cringe as you fling tress with a Cantrip.

On this note, as it was just recently mentioned, if you have a Spell Component Pouch, you can grab up to...Huge, I think? Just randomly from it. Since they're the biggest ones that cost less than 1GP.


I remember a lot of threads suggesting this, but, in my mind's heart, I know that there comes a size when a "bolt" ceases to be a "bolt".

Besides, increasing the size of a single die is not worth the cost of constructing tree-size masterwork +1 Spell-Storing bolts, and hiring the caravans to lug them around. :smallwink:

Bag of Holding Mk. IV, anyone?

Cyclocone
2010-01-19, 10:55 AM
I remember a lot of threads suggesting this, but, in my mind's heart, I know that there comes a size when a "bolt" ceases to be a "bolt".

Colossal creatures beg to differ.:smallwink:


Besides, increasing the size of a single die is not worth the cost of constructing tree-size masterwork +1 Spell-Storing bolts, and hiring the caravans to lug them around.

Shrink Item.


This actually sounds like a fun idea. How does this "chaining" thing work though? I tried looking up the proper metamagic but no luck.

Chain Spell. (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Chain_Spell)

Tanaric
2010-01-19, 10:57 AM
Want a little tip? You can fire Crossbow Bolts larger than your own body...


Nnnnope. The spell calls for a 1sp crossbow bolt, actually. Colossal+++ bolts aren't 1sp.

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-19, 11:15 AM
Nnnnope. The spell calls for a 1sp crossbow bolt, actually. Colossal+++ bolts aren't 1sp.

Does it specifically say "worth 1sp" in the spell? If not, then there's no problem.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-01-19, 11:27 AM
I don't think this works

The reason is chain spell says the spell arcs



Any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch can be chained so as to affect that primary target normally, then arc to a number of secondary targets equal to your caster level (maximum 20).

So that would sound to me like the bolt it self would arc to other targets which would be impossible seeing as bolts are destroyed on impact.

How ever you could,
Quicken Twin spell
twin spell, repeat spell it.

to get off 4 arrows this round then do it again next round for an aditional 8 arrows..

Could be a fun strategy... Especialy with metamagic reducers. mabye even smite spell.

Deth Muncher
2010-01-19, 11:37 AM
Does it specifically say "worth 1sp" in the spell? If not, then there's no problem.

Unfortunately. (http://www.primordia.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Launch_bolt)

DementedFellow
2010-01-19, 11:43 AM
I still don't see a problem. Just buy a colossal bolt for 1 sp. Use whatever method works best for you.

Burley
2010-01-19, 11:43 AM
So that would sound to me like the bolt it self would arc to other targets which would be impossible seeing as bolts are destroyed on impact.


The target of the spell is the actual bolt, not the target of the bolt. The spell arcs from bolt to bolt, firing them off.
In the vein of thought you're using, a Chained Orb of Acid would hit the orc, and then send that orc bouncing into his buddies, instead of sending the Orb bouncing into his buddies.
The spell affects new targets. It does not make the target affect multiple targets.


Unfortunately. (http://www.primordia.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Launch_bolt)

Well, then why would the spell description say that the magical properties of the bolt still apply, when it would be im-freakin-possible to have a magical bolt cost 1sp.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-01-19, 11:50 AM
The target of the spell is the actual bolt, not the target of the bolt. The spell arcs from bolt to bolt, firing them off.
In the vein of thought you're using, a Chained Orb of Acid would hit the orc, and then send that orc bouncing into his buddies, instead of sending the Orb bouncing into his buddies.
The spell affects new targets. It does not make the target affect multiple targets.

After re reading it i get what your saying... which adds to the awsome sauce any way.

quickened Twinned chained
and twinded chained repeating....

DementedFellow
2010-01-19, 11:50 AM
The target of the spell is the actual bolt, not the target of the bolt. The spell arcs from bolt to bolt, firing them off.
In the vein of thought you're using, a Chained Orb of Acid would hit the orc, and then send that orc bouncing into his buddies, instead of sending the Orb bouncing into his buddies.

That's a better interpretation of the rules actually. I like the idea of the orc pinballing into his buddies.

Draz74
2010-01-19, 11:52 AM
Spell Storing is listed only on the table of Melee weapon properties, not on the Ranged weapon properties. Therefore, many DMs rule that it's a melee-only thing. (And I support this, because I've seen some nasty-overpowered exploits with Spell Storing Arrows before. Forget Launch Bolt, just a simple Cleric archer ... yikes.)

What's more, Scorching Ray isn't technically a valid spell to put in Spell Storing weapons, as it's not a Targeted spell (it requires an attack roll of its own).

Burley
2010-01-19, 11:53 AM
That's a better interpretation of the rules actually. I like the idea of the orc pinballing into his buddies.

It isn't necessarily a better interpretation, as it is a more humorous interpretation.

So, as I stand now, everything about this idea checks out, except that it it impossible to cast Launch Bolt on a magical bolt.

Edit: ...And, the fact that Scorching Ray isn't techinically a targeted spell. Well, isn't that bloody convenient.

DementedFellow
2010-01-19, 11:58 AM
You guys are missing it. Even though I can't find my Spell Compendium right now I don't think that 1sp limitation is there. But there are ways around that.

Hire a lumberjack for a day and then offer him a tip if he'll fashion 10 trees into colossal bolts. 10 sp for 10 bolts. He'll already be working for you for the day, however many gp that is. Viola! You have colossal bolts that are 1 sp.

Or you can Intimidate a vendor into lowering his price to 1 sp.

Or you can Fascinate a vendor into lowering his price to 1 sp.

Or you can Suggest a vendor lower his price.

Or you can Mindrape a vendor into lowering his price.

Or you can just simply knock out the vendor, walk out of the door with X number of colossal bolts and leave the same number of sp behind.

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-19, 12:01 PM
It isn't necessarily a better interpretation, as it is a more humorous interpretation.

So, as I stand now, everything about this idea checks out, except that it it impossible to cast Launch Bolt on a magical bolt.

Which makes no sense because the spell says otherwise. I think that (1sp) is just a reminder, compare it to True Rez' wording (or any other spell). It doesn't say "worth 1sp" it says "a Crossbow Bolt (1sp)". It may do so because the PHB lists Crossbow Bolts as costing 1gp for 10.

FishAreWet
2010-01-19, 12:04 PM
You would have to Reach it then Chain it.


Any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch can be chained so as to affect that primary target normally, then arc to a number of secondary targets equal to your caster level (maximum 20).

So in the end, you use a 5th level spell slot to shoot 20 bolts. Without shenanigans, this is 20d6.

Redrat2k6
2010-01-19, 12:11 PM
I love the idea, I actually got really excited about all the cool things my npc rogues were gunna do with scrolls of launch bolt and huge sized crossbow bolts.

As for facts.

Unfortunately, it does not work. :smallfrown: Chain metamagic only works on spells with a range greater than touch and Launch Bolt has a range of touch.

But I could see a familiar that is hiding in the bushes cast this one off for you if diplomacy goes awry. Maybe some level 1 rogue followers with scrolls behind a silent image spell could make this really nice.

As for opinion.

As for the crossbow bolt size I'm pretty sure the (1sp) is there to indicate the cost for a normal size crossbow bolt for easy reference. If the spell were to say "a crossbow bolt worth 1sp" or "no more than 1 sp" like some spells do, then I would agree.

Being a DM though I would house rule this to the size of the wielder. And I think my current players would understand. It's not like DnD doesn't have worse mistakes it has made. Like Druids. :smallwink:

Twilight Jack
2010-01-19, 12:14 PM
You would have to Reach it then Chain it.



So in the end, you use a 5th level spell slot to shoot 20 bolts. Without shenanigans, this is 20d6.

20d8 if you're medium sized, sir.

Burley
2010-01-19, 01:30 PM
You would have to Reach it then Chain it.



So in the end, you use a 5th level spell slot to shoot 20 bolts. Without shenanigans, this is 20d6.

Launch Bolt is not a touch spell. It has a range of Medium.

Edit: The spell originally appears in Magic of Faerun, where it has a range of Medium. I have no idea if that changes when if was moved to the Spell Compendium.

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-19, 01:34 PM
Launch Bolt is not a touch spell. It has a range of Medium.

Edit: The spell originally appears in Magic of Faerun, where it has a range of Medium. I have no idea if that changes when if was moved to the Spell Compendium.
A remote-controlled ambush! Just apply Silent/Still.

Another_Poet
2010-01-19, 01:41 PM
This is awesome.

cZak
2010-01-19, 01:45 PM
Hire a lumberjack for a day and then offer him a tip if he'll fashion 10 trees into colossal bolts. 10 sp for 10 bolts. He'll already be working for you for the day, however many gp that is. Viola! You have colossal bolts that are 1 sp... etc

Obvious breakage of rules of any sort...

Wiz needs a 100gp pearl to cast identify...

Fighter has a pearl but it appraises at only 80gp

"I'll pay you 100gp for that pearl..."

These methods are joked about 'round the table, but I've never met a DM who would allow their interpretation

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-19, 01:50 PM
Launch Bolt is not a touch spell. It has a range of Medium.

Edit: The spell originally appears in Magic of Faerun, where it has a range of Medium. I have no idea if that changes when if was moved to the Spell Compendium.

Spell Comp gives it a range of touch. So reach+Chain is needed, but this is a cool Idea. Anyone have a quick and dirty list of MM reducers?

Tis found on page 130.

arguskos
2010-01-19, 03:21 PM
Let's see... Incantrix 10 reduces metas, but that's Incantrix, so :smallsigh:. Easy Metamagic (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Easy_Metamagic) drops the cost of one, as does Practical Metamagic (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Practical_Metamagic), though only for sorcs. So, perhaps a Dragonblooded Human Sorcerer 6? That gets you Chain, Repeat, and Easy/Practical for one feat. Still, that's a +4 adjustment, which you can't do until level 8. :smallfrown:

If you hit up a Metamagic Storm to nick either Chain or Repeat, you could squeeze in another Easy Metamagic, and so get that down to a +3 total adjustment, but that's being kinda nice with the location.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-19, 04:00 PM
Metaphysical Spellshaper -3 can take another 1 off the metamagic cost too, but then it can never go below a +1 MM cost (but then again you can take stat damage to pay for adding the metamagic, so...)

Evard
2010-01-19, 04:19 PM
Off a movie called gamers (no major motion picture or anything) a rogue sneak attacks with a ballista which uses bolts sooo... :D

RagnaroksChosen
2010-01-19, 04:22 PM
Off a movie called gamers (no major motion picture or anything) a rogue sneak attacks with a ballista which uses bolts sooo... :D

One of the greatest movies ever...


"Ill back stab him... no wait ill back stab him with a crossbow... no wait ill backstab him with a heavy crossbow... no wait ill backstab him with a balista"

Douglas
2010-01-19, 04:29 PM
Try The Gamers: Dorkness Rising. Made by the same group after they actually got a budget, and it's even better.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-01-19, 04:32 PM
Try The Gamers: Dorkness Rising. Made by the same group after they actually got a budget, and it's even better.

it is awsome...

Especialy the goblin totem scene.... laughed like ****... wish that had focused it more on the d20 system rather then throwing in gurps stuff.

arguskos
2010-01-19, 04:34 PM
Metaphysical Spellshaper -3 can take another 1 off the metamagic cost too, but then it can never go below a +1 MM cost (but then again you can take stat damage to pay for adding the metamagic, so...)
Source on Metaphysical Spellshaper? I don't know that one.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-19, 04:37 PM
Source on Metaphysical Spellshaper? I don't know that one.BoEF. Short PrC, grants several metamagic benefits.

Is it bad that I do know that?

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-19, 04:39 PM
BoEF. Short PrC, grants several metamagic benefits.

Is it bad that I do know that?

Nope, cause it is an amazing PrC and I've mentioned it every chance I get here and in other places. I think It beats the pants off Incanatrix to be honest.

Also: is that a kobold artificer?

Flickerdart
2010-01-19, 04:43 PM
Try The Gamers: Dorkness Rising. Made by the same group after they actually got a budget, and it's even better.
"...it's got a spine, hasn't it?"

BoEF is 3rd party material, so it doesn't really count.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-19, 04:44 PM
Nope, cause it is an amazing PrC and I've mentioned it every chance I get here and in other places. I think It beats the pants off Incanatrix to be honest.

Also: is that a kobold artificer?Yes. Yes it is. Provided by CrimsonAngel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=40848) and the Avatar Adoption Center (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26936).

And the Metaphysical Spellshaper gives the rest of the book's mechanics a bad name.

...Eh?
2010-01-19, 04:50 PM
So, as I stand now, everything about this idea checks out, except that it it impossible to cast Launch Bolt on a magical bolt.
That's true. However, you can cast it on poisoned bolts, and if my memory serves, one dose of poison will coat twenty pieces of ammunition. Think poisons are two weak now? Wait until the target has to make twenty different saves against it. And then do it again the next round. Everyone rolls a one eventually.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-19, 04:55 PM
I still don't see why magical bolts are not allowed. The value of a single bolt is provided in the spell and that's it. It mentions nothing about that value being a limiting factor, just that the price of single bolts is 1 sp. It also specifically mentions that an magical properties work, so enchanted bolts must be allowed.

Burley
2010-01-20, 07:02 AM
I still don't see why magical bolts are not allowed. The value of a single bolt is provided in the spell and that's it. It mentions nothing about that value being a limiting factor, just that the price of single bolts is 1 sp. It also specifically mentions that an magical properties work, so enchanted bolts must be allowed.

Right. I'm pretty sure we cleared that part up.

However, I was slapped with the fact that even though you target a creature or creatures with Scorching Ray, it isn't a "Targeted Spell" nor can I put spell-storing on ranged weapons.
Sure, this is a way to get off a bunch of attacks, but it's not as effective without the spell damage. SA makes it worth it, however...

Curmudgeon
2010-01-20, 07:12 AM
That's true. However, you can cast it on poisoned bolts, and if my memory serves, one dose of poison will coat twenty pieces of ammunition.
Better get your memory checked.
One dose of poison smeared on a weapon or some other object affects just a single target.
...
Price: The cost of one dose (one vial) of the poison. It is not possible to use or apply poison in any quantity smaller than one dose.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-22, 08:19 AM
GMW makes this a bit awesome. Buff 50 arrows, then fire 21 in one round.

Note that you can indeed use a Colossal Bolt....but you take appropriate penalties to the attack roll. Funny, though.

Oh, and amusingly, Eschew Materials means you can cast the spell without the crossbow bolt.

Raging Gene Ray
2010-01-22, 08:34 AM
I still don't see why magical bolts are not allowed. The value of a single bolt is provided in the spell and that's it. It mentions nothing about that value being a limiting factor, just that the price of single bolts is 1 sp. It also specifically mentions that an magical properties work, so enchanted bolts must be allowed.

This is it. The writers just wanted to make it clear that you need a standard crossbow bolt and not some twig you see on the ground. Then they decided to be a little helpful and remind you of the standard price of a bolt...then some rules lawyers misinterpreted that as it HAS to be a bolt that cost 1sp.



Oh, and amusingly, Eschew Materials means you can cast the spell without the crossbow bolt.

No, because the bolt isn't just a material component, it's also the target.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-22, 09:11 AM
I'm building an H-Orc Wizard for some PvP action that's gonna use this tactic as he main attack! PEWPEWPEW! ^_^

Also, how could we turn this into an enchantment for crossbows? :smallconfused:

Also ALSO: what if you use this to launch bolts with the splitting property? :smallconfused:

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-22, 09:31 AM
Also, how could we turn this into an enchantment for crossbows? :smallconfused:

.....Launch Bolt? I'll make you one for 2000gp. Bargain.

Burley
2010-01-22, 09:34 AM
I'm building an H-Orc Wizard for some PvP action that's gonna use this tactic as he main attack! PEWPEWPEW! ^_^

Also, how could we turn this into an enchantment for crossbows? :smallconfused:

Also ALSO: what if you use this to launch bolts with the splitting property? :smallconfused:

First, there would be little to no point of enchanting a crossbow with this. It'd be a homebrew item for a semi-broken meta-spell.

If you launch bolts with the splitting property, they would split. The spell says that it is shot as though fired from a light crossbow. Further, you can cast such things as Sonic weapon on them snag some extra damage dice.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-22, 09:52 AM
O_o....

Rogue 20 casting this from a scroll while greater invis'd/Blinking.

210d6. Add Craven for more damage.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-22, 05:29 PM
wait. can launch bolt be the target of chain spell?

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-22, 07:38 PM
It can if Reached.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-22, 09:14 PM
It can if Reached.

So we'd need to do something like Arcane Thesis it first then. +5 is too much. Now will arcane Thesis take off a net 1, or 1 per MM applied?

FishAreWet
2010-01-22, 09:28 PM
So we'd need to do something like Arcane Thesis it first then. +5 is too much. Now will arcane Thesis take off a net 1, or 1 per MM applied?

Why? Just use the 5th level spellslot.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-22, 09:39 PM
Why? Just use the 5th level spellslot.

Bwah?! But then it's almost like a 5th level spell. I.E. no longer a cantrip.

And you gotta wait a long time to get to use a storm of crossbow bolts.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-22, 10:31 PM
If you could use enough reducers, could you make it a SLA?

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-23, 12:07 AM
the key is arcane thesis and +0 metamagics. I've only found 2 that can apply to the spell. Invisable Spell and Sanctum Spell.

2xMachina
2010-01-23, 02:18 AM
^ That makes it a lvl 1 spell. Pretty OK actually.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-23, 02:20 AM
^ That makes it a lvl 1 spell. Pretty OK actually.

Indeed. A level 1 spell with some decent damage and good mook control

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-23, 12:08 PM
I'd still like to find a way to make a wand out of it...you can only use one grip, but can you use a metamagiced spell as the base wand?

2xMachina
2010-01-23, 12:19 PM
I think you can have Wands with Metamagic Spells. Not sure the specifices on Grips though.

But that leads to crazy things like a wand made by an Incantatrix with Arcane Thesis+Easy+Prac + Fell Drain Twin Split Ocular Spell Chain Repeat Invisible Sanctum Sonic Snap. Store 2 in your eyes, and Negative Lvl death to anyone (does 12*2 in 1 round, and again in the next. So, 48 negative lvl)

*2 because ocular spell lets you fire 2 spells as a full round action IIRC (2 eyes, 2 spells)

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-23, 12:31 PM
I would doubt reducers work on wands.

A grip lets you use a metamagic you know on a wand spell at the cost of charges equal to the increase in spell level +1.

Get a HIGH CL wand of reached launch bolt and apply chained to it, as a high LV rogue, who happened to take 1 level of wizard and chain spell.

2xMachina
2010-01-23, 12:38 PM
Hmm, I thought Magic Item creation was putting a spell into the item. So, if I can cast a reduced metamagic spell, I can make 1 too.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-23, 01:16 PM
In part....but the MMagic reducers allow you to cast the spell using a lower spell slot than you would otherwise...so I'd guess that the spell still counts as that higher slot for items. If I'm wrong, I'll be buying some broken wands for the ToS and Neverending dungeon.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-25, 02:16 PM
Hmm... Other that launch Bolt, what other cantrips can we get silly with? I've got a PvP game coming up and I'd like to win one of my bouts with just cantrips! ^_^

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-25, 02:22 PM
Metamagic+Acid Splash?

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-25, 02:25 PM
Metamagic+Acid Splash?

Hmm maybe. Any way we can make that boil his blood or kill his ancesters?

FishAreWet
2010-01-25, 02:26 PM
Fel Drain + Acid Splash is a great way to get Wights.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-25, 02:26 PM
Dunno, but if you use Ray of Frost, you could probably stack a few on there to deal a few dozen negative levels.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-25, 02:36 PM
Dunno, but if you use Ray of Frost, you could probably stack a few on there to deal a few dozen negative levels.

Oh? how so? can we do this in one or two rounds? 20 neg Lvs. should suffice.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-25, 02:42 PM
Repeated Twinned Split Fell Drain, and grab Ocular spell and fire it through a splitting lens for even more rays.

FishAreWet
2010-01-25, 02:51 PM
Repeated Twinned Split Fell Drain, and grab Ocular spell and fire it through a splitting lens for even more rays.

Reread Fel Drain. It's a really really common mistake. It drains a negative level from everyone who is dealt damage. Having the same spell do damage multiple times doesn't do anything.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-25, 03:09 PM
Awww...that's no fun...no clue how to break it then.

EDIT: Unless you grab levels of Ruby Knight Vindicator (get to L7), a lot of turning attempts, and quicken spell....could throw a few dozen quickened repeating fell drain ray of frosts at ppl..

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-26, 12:09 AM
Reread Fel Drain. It's a really really common mistake. It drains a negative level from everyone who is dealt damage. Having the same spell do damage multiple times doesn't do anything.Twinned and Ocular would still work, but you lose Split. Still 4 hits, though I'd recommend using Sonic Snap instead of Acid Splash because it's harder to resist and can't miss.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-26, 12:22 AM
So between twinned, ocular, repeated, and a quickened twinned repeated, we have 6 negative levels twice..not too bad.

2xMachina
2010-01-26, 06:05 AM
Fell Drain Extend Persisted Thunderhead (or whatever the spell that does 1 damage per round)?

Reflex save or take 1 negative level. Every round for 48 hours.

BTW, I think firing the ocular spell is a full round action.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-26, 11:08 AM
Fell Drain Extend Persisted Thunderhead (or whatever the spell that does 1 damage per round)?

Reflex save or take 1 negative level. Every round for 48 hours.

BTW, I think firing the ocular spell is a full round action.You still have a Swift action, it's called out that you can fire both at once, and it's just a full round, not 1 round.

So, Twinned Ocular Repeated+Twinned Ocular Repeated+Quickened Twinned for 6 levels this round, 6 next round.

2xMachina
2010-01-26, 11:27 AM
A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions (see below).
Hmm, I'm not sure...

I thought that full round prevents swift, but it very vague on whether it's possible...

On one hand, it says it consumes all your effort during a round, and thus, move is only 5 foot step, but it says nothing on the swift action...

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-26, 04:31 PM
SRD has no info on swift actions, because they didn't exist til a bit later on.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-26, 07:41 PM
Crud! I overlooked something. I'm building a 15th level wizard with the intent of using suped up launch bolt as one of the tricks in his arsenal, But what to do about hitting the dang target? Wraith strike is melee only and I think True strike is good for only one attack. What to do? Need ideas by Thursday if anyone has any.

Xenogears
2010-01-26, 07:47 PM
Make them brilliant energy bolts? A little odd...

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-26, 07:52 PM
Make them brilliant energy bolts? A little odd...

Too expensive I'm afraid. Hm... I wonder if I can pick up divine power in a potion...

Nope. 4th level spell. Gonna have to get it added to my spell list with a feat.

term1nally s1ck
2010-01-26, 07:57 PM
GMW to make them all +3 would be an easy +3....high Dex etc would be the next option..

Finding a way to make them touch attacks would be nice.

Oh, and re-fluff the spell to make it fire 'playing cards', and become Gambit.

sofawall
2010-01-26, 08:04 PM
In part....but the MMagic reducers allow you to cast the spell using a lower spell slot than you would otherwise...so I'd guess that the spell still counts as that higher slot for items. If I'm wrong, I'll be buying some broken wands for the ToS and Neverending dungeon.

Not for the ToS you won't. You see, we try to think of these types of things.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-26, 08:12 PM
Holy heck! The Splitting enchantment want you to have two feats :smallfrown:

Sigh. Not a problem I guess.

Benejeseret
2010-01-26, 08:27 PM
Here are my thoughts.

Would an artificer have an easier time of this as far as the 1sp problem?

Makes a wand of launch bolt and applies any metamagic he wants to it for extra charges (still cheap!)

He buys many bolts for a mere 1sp. He uses his infusions to temporarily enchant them (but they are still worth 1sp) with what-ever you wish and can easily produce very high level temporary enchantments.


Earthbound spell - Fast and effective trap. Just dump a quiver on the ground (free action) and metamagic cast an Earthbound/Chained/Reach whatever (ideally via artificer wand metamagic charges) and move away.

Darrin
2010-01-26, 08:29 PM
Too expensive I'm afraid. Hm... I wonder if I can pick up divine power in a potion...

Nope. 4th level spell. Gonna have to get it added to my spell list with a feat.

Heart of the Beast, 2000 GP, Magic of Faerun p. 160. 10 rounds of Divine Power as a one-shot wondrous item.