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Gnaritas
2010-01-20, 07:29 AM
One of my players wants this template, and i think it is too overpowered.

You get +12 Str, +4 Con, -2 Dex, +4 natural armor, darkvision 60 ft, large size (bonuses are already included) and some other minor stuff for +1 LA.

If i compare it to the Half-Ogre from Races of Destiny you get less for LA +2.

I was planning on fixing the Template by not allowing the extra bonuses for increasing size. In other words, he does not get the +8 str, +2 con, -2 dex and +2 natural armor.

I believe that about fixes it....what do you think?

Soranar
2010-01-20, 07:32 AM
are you sure you didn't forget creature hit dice levels?

say Giant HD 4to 6 normally for something that strong

otherwise ban and don't worry about it , way too strong

Simba
2010-01-20, 07:32 AM
Sounds about right for LA+1

Soranar
2010-01-20, 07:35 AM
Ok I found the current template


Natural Armor +2
Str +4
Int 2
Cha 2
if size small/medium it increases,
CR +1 & Lvl +1
If the Base Creature was of Small or Medium size, its size is
increased by one category, with all the appropriate changes to its
ability scores, etc., plus a +10 improvement to base movement.
These changes are in addition to the bonuses and penalties listed.
Considered a Giant as

not the same thing at all, whatever your source is, it's either wrong or everything is overpowered in that setting ( like dragonlance)

EDIT, I know what's wrong with it, if your size increases you get another level adjustment

2xMachina
2010-01-20, 07:35 AM
Hmm, funny he doesn't try for Half-Minotaur instead. Same place, but better.

EDIT:

Half Minotaur

Gain Feat: Track.
Natural Armor +2
Str +4
Con +2
Int 2
Wis +2
Lvl +1
if size increases, CR +1

If the Base Creature was of Small or Medium size, its size is
increased by one category, with all the appropriate changes to its
ability scores, etc., plus a +10 improvement to base movement.
These changes are in addition to the bonuses and penalties listed.
Darkvision 60.
Gain the Scent ability.
+2 Racial bonus on Search, Spot, & Listen checks.
Gain a 1d6 Gore attack (if Medium).
+4 bonus on checks to escape a Maze spell & always know which
direction is North.

Runestar
2010-01-20, 07:38 AM
I agree - remove the size bonuses for becoming large and it becomes balanced for its LA.

Clarification - as in, it still remains large, it just doesn't get the stat bonuses for it.

Gnaritas
2010-01-20, 07:50 AM
Ok I found the current template


Natural Armor +2
Str +4
Int 2
Cha 2
if size small/medium it increases,
CR +1 & Lvl +1
If the Base Creature was of Small or Medium size, its size is
increased by one category, with all the appropriate changes to its
ability scores, etc., plus a +10 improvement to base movement.
These changes are in addition to the bonuses and penalties listed.
Considered a Giant as

not the same thing at all, whatever your source is, it's either wrong or everything is overpowered in that setting ( like dragonlance)

EDIT, I know what's wrong with it, if your size increases you get another level adjustment

I have it in front of me and it is exactly as i wrote, except that i already calculated the bold part into the bonuses.

And the LA is +0 unless it has a size increase, then it is +1

Gnaritas
2010-01-20, 08:30 AM
I agree - remove the size bonuses for becoming large and it becomes balanced for its LA.

Clarification - as in, it still remains large, it just doesn't get the stat bonuses for it.

@clarification: that is what i meant yes

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-20, 08:37 AM
So you have a LA +1 template that grants +4 Str, +2 Con, +2 natural armor, Large Size, Darkvision 60'
Compare to the Neraph, from the Planar Handbook. They also have Darkvision and natural armor of the same degree. So the comparison is:

Neraph:
Neraph Camouflage, Leap, Outsider Type, Weapon Familiarity, Alertness (sort of)

Half-Ogre:
+4 Str, +2 con, Large Size, base creature abilities, LA +1

Seems about balanced, given that Neraph is one of the stronger LA +0 races.

Clarification: Yeah, remove the excessive size bonuses and you should be just fine.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-01-20, 08:57 AM
Tell him he can instead use the updated version in Races of Destiny. The Dragon Magazine version is outdated and no longer valid. Only make half-minotaur available as a +2 LA template if their size doesn't increase, or +3 if they do get a size increase.

Starbuck_II
2010-01-20, 09:51 AM
Tell him he can instead use the updated version in Races of Destiny. The Dragon Magazine version is outdated and no longer valid. Only make half-minotaur available as a +2 LA template if their size doesn't increase, or +3 if they do get a size increase.

Even better be 1/2 Ogre 1/2 Ogre since one is a template and 1 is race.

Ooh, to mess with genetics: 1/2 Ogre 1/2 Minotaur 1/2 Ogre. 2 templates 1 race.