So, Tsukiko hates living people. [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

megabyter5

2010-01-20, 08:04 AM

Tsukiko clearly harbors enmity towards everyone who is actually alive, and so she's assuming that sentient undead are the opposite and are sweet and lovable (which gives me an eerie hint of deja vu regarding a franchise of books and movies popular with teenage girls nowadays... I really hope that's just my paranoia). So what's going to happen when Xykon inevitably crushes her fragile little still-beating heart? My guess is that it's not a good thing.

SoD Spoilers:
The forum seems to have reached a general consensus that Tsukiko is studying the gate-moving ritual for Xykon. As a Theurge, as soon as she reaches a high enough level, she can presumably cast the ritual all by herself. But, if the ritual were to go wrong, the Snarl would destroy everything. Therefore, if she were to learn that undead were just as bad as living creatures, she seems like the type who wouldn't be breaking character to embrace the ideals of an omnicidal maniac.

I didn't really want to post my silly predictions, but I couldn't help myself. So let's make a checklist!

This topic still needs:
a logical argument disputing all or part of my idea
an unnecessary personal insult
someone pointing out that I'm not the author here
an obvious generality
someone complaining about the obvious generality
at least one post that contributes nothing to the topic
someone who follows up on an irrelevant detail of another post
a derailment occuring from the above follow-up
someone trying to get the thread back on track
a single post that actually says something clever

Optimystik

2010-01-20, 08:12 AM

As a Theurge, as soon as she reaches a high enough level, she can presumably cast the ritual all by herself. But, if the ritual were to go wrong, the Snarl would destroy everything. Therefore, if she were to learn that undead were just as bad as living creatures, she seems like the type who wouldn't be breaking character to embrace the ideals of an omnicidal maniac.

a) Just wanted to point out that getting to epic casting on both sides as a MT is extremely difficult. (Not that epic is necessary for what she's reading, but still...)

b) Her reaction to the true nature of undead would depend on if she was able to make a living friend beforehand, I think.

This topic still needs:
a logical argument disputing all or part of my idea
an unnecessary personal insult
someone pointing out that I'm not the author here
an obvious generality
someone complaining about the obvious generality
at least one post that contributes nothing to the topic
someone who follows up on an irrelevant detail of another post
a derailment occuring from the above follow-up
someone trying to get the thread back on track
a single post that actually says something clever

Yeah, this'll end well...

TriForce

2010-01-20, 08:21 AM

oe! i can help!

"Ahem"

You sir, are a idiot. especially if you didnt notice the fact that she is a necrofetishist homicidal maniac

also, you think she is someone who would wear black or white to her wedding with xykon? speculate here!

Raging Gene Ray

2010-01-20, 08:27 AM

You sir, are a idiot. especially if you didnt notice the fact that she is a necrofetishist homicidal maniac

That's not what the OP is saying. He's saying that she can go from necrofetishist homicidal maniac to loveless omnicidal maniac as soon as she realizes Xykon is using her just like whatever guy drove her to hate humans in the first place.

Oh, and she'd wear either Redcloak's skin or go through the whole wedding naked.

EDIT: Just noticed the checklist the OP posted. You're a helper, I guess.

Weimann

2010-01-20, 08:43 AM

I think there probably won't be such a moment where Tsukiko is crushed by harsh reality. My guess is that she'll just keep working harder when she fails to swoon Xykon with the ritual.

After all, it's not like he's the first undead she's met. She must be bit jaded.

Oooohaloophole

2010-01-20, 08:54 AM

I think she is probably Delusional.
Shure her obsession with Undead creatures is in your mouth out your ear, kick mother nature in the face Wrong but it doesnt exactly make you a bad person. She probably knows that the reason everybody hates undead is because like inneficient car engines they require lives of other living biengs to work. Thats mostly the reason they hate her, because in order to sexualy pleese herself she must kill other innocents for it. She probably doesnt want to believe that she is doing evil (Like most evil peopl) and is doing good. So she made up a delusion that its EVERYBODY else who is an A-Hole and if it werent for them ,undead would live side by side and smell the Undead roses.

Darakonis

2010-01-20, 10:42 AM

She probably knows that the reason everybody hates undead is because like inneficient car engines they require lives of other living biengs to work..
What?
What kind of car do you drive? The Grim Reaper-mobile? Inefficient car engines are powered by living beings? What?

To OP, not a bad theory. I doubt that's what will happen, but it does seem within her character.

Deme

2010-01-20, 10:51 AM

You know, you're not the author here. In fact, the death of the author idea may imply that NO ONE is the author, even the person whose steaming brain the strip arose from. But that's kind of silly.

...I'm helping!

Optimystik

2010-01-20, 11:07 AM

:elan: I'm participating!

Fixed that for you

Manga Shoggoth

2010-01-20, 11:21 AM

What?
What kind of car do you drive? The Grim Reaper-mobile? Inefficient car engines are powered by living beings? What?

In all fairness, car fuel was once a living thing. Then it had a bad experience as a result of a crush, which rather changed it.

Qubanz

2010-01-20, 11:23 AM

paddyfool

2010-01-20, 11:26 AM

I'm kind of surprised Tsukiko hasn't opted for undeath herself yet, if she's so into them. Do you suppose the reality disconnect only goes so far?

truemane

2010-01-20, 11:34 AM

I'm kind of surprised Tsukiko hasn't opted for undeath herself yet, if she's so into them. Do you suppose the reality disconnect only goes so far?

I think the only reason the Giant hasn't made her go undead herself is that it's funnier this way.

someone who follows up on an irrelevant detail of another post

CHECK!

Twilight Jack

2010-01-20, 11:42 AM

I think the only reason the Giant hasn't made her go undead herself is that it's funnier this way.

Also, her personal fetish for dead flesh aside, she seems like the type who'd be really into her own flesh just the way it is.

Besides, as a necromancer, she certainly understands that not all undead are created equal. If you can't make yourself into a lich, a vampire, or something decidedly non-core, then you're not doing yourself any favors.

Teddy

2010-01-20, 11:44 AM

Tsukiko is kinda dumb.

Either undead are the same jerks they always where but with powers, and an appetite for destroying the living, or their mindless groaning reanimated corpses with an appetite for destroying the living. Well either that or their emo whiners of course, and probably sparkly.

You'd think someone who raised a gaggle of those things would have figured that much out by now.

Tsukiko hasn't still gotten out of her teenage angst, so it's not strange that she feels that everyone is a jerk and draws completely moronic conclusions based on her own perceptions of the situation.

TriForce

2010-01-20, 12:21 PM

I think the only reason the Giant hasn't made her go undead herself is that it's funnier this way.

CHECK!

Also, undead cant have sex, since those urges are gone when you relive again :)

a derailment occuring from the above follow-up

CHECK

Mystic Muse

2010-01-20, 12:28 PM

at least one post that contributes nothing to the topic

Is this morally justified? *runs*

oh and CHECK!:smallbiggrin:

Sleepingbear

2010-01-20, 12:47 PM

Also, undead cant have sex, since those urges are gone when you relive again :)

Come on folks. Let's stay on topic, here!

And also, check. :)

Linkavitch

2010-01-20, 01:08 PM

You know, after reading this strip, I've noticed a resemblance between Tsukiko and Harley Quinn from Batman. I mean, they both work for insane men bent on creating havoc (Granted, Xykon wants to rule the world, and the Joker just wants to screw it, but hey.), are both obsessed with making the insane guy love them, and we can't forget the hairstyle.:smalleek: someone's probably already said this, but I figured it needed saying.

Optimystik

2010-01-20, 01:39 PM

Also, undead cant have sex, since those urges are gone when you relive again :)

Evening Glory might disagree with you here.

Thanatosia

2010-01-20, 03:57 PM

a) Just wanted to point out that getting to epic casting on both sides as a MT is extremely difficult. (Not that epic is necessary for what she's reading, but still...)
actualy, getting epic casting for both sides of a MT is trivial (for an epic level MT). The rules of the Epic Spellcasting feat from the epic level handbook states: "If you meet more then one set of prerequisites, the limit on the number of spells you may cast per day is cumulative. For example, if you are a wizard/cleric you may cast a number of arcane epic spells per day equal to your number of ranks in knowledge (arcana) divided by ten, and a number of divine epic spells per day equal to your number or ranks in knowledge (relegion) divided by ten" - she would'nt even need to buy the epic spellcasting feat twice, once covers both sides.

In order to meet the re-reqs on both sides, she just has to have knowledge (arcana) 24 ranks, spellcraft 24 ranks, knowledge (religion) 24 ranks, the ability to cast 9th level arcane spells, and the ability to cast 9th level divine spells. All of wich should be achievable by most lv22 Mystic Thurges (wiz5/clr5/MT12 = Caster level of 17 on both sides, wich is sufficient to cast 9th level spells).

Of course, the fact that most epic mystic thurges should be able to cast epic magic on both sides of the fence just 1 level after epic feats first become available says nothing to the fact that I dont think Tsukiko is anywhere near epic level.

Mystic Muse

2010-01-20, 04:01 PM

. Mystic theurge only goes for ten levels and it's a PRC. there's no way to become a mystic theurge 12 as far as I can see.

Kish

2010-01-20, 04:04 PM

No, it doesn't. Like (as far as I know) every ten-level prestige class, it goes into epic levels at prestige class level 11/minimum character level 21, and its further progression is detailed in the Epic Level Handbook.

TriForce

2010-01-20, 04:07 PM

Evening Glory might disagree with you here.

evening glory is about love, not sex :P

Mystic Muse

2010-01-20, 04:08 PM

Kish

2010-01-20, 04:11 PM

As far as I know. I don't want to commit myself to saying there isn't a prestige class in some obscure supplement somewhere that has ten levels but never goes epic, but Mystic Theurge definitely does.

SaintRidley

2010-01-20, 04:22 PM

Any 10 level prestige class can be extended in epic, though if it lacks class features that improve at regular intervals all it will get is bonus feats.

Exceptions to this rule are transformative prestige classes such as Dragon Disciple.

As a rule, though, Mystic Theurge can't be brought past 10 until your 21st character level. Epic Mystic Theurge isn't that great, too, because past 10th level classes that advance two types of casting alternate which type they grant at each level. In the end, especially in Core/SRD, you're looking at Tsukiko probably being Wiz 3/Cleric 3/MT 10/Wiz or Cleric 4 when she hits 20 (if she hits 20). She'd be better off taking 4 levels of the other to hit 9th level casting sooner than she would continuing Mystic Theurge.

veti

2010-01-20, 04:28 PM

What kind of car do you drive? The Grim Reaper-mobile? Inefficient car engines are powered by living beings? What?

Inefficient car engines cause more pollution than necessary. Pollution kills living beings. QED.

(Dammit, ninja'd for the derailment check.)

Bibliomancer

2010-01-20, 04:37 PM

You'd think someone who raised a gaggle of those things would have figured that much out by now.

Well, despite being uninformed and hungry, they aren't acting particularly bloodthirsty here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html) or here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0514.html). From their (and her) point of view, they are simply attempting to convert everyone to the correct viewpoint.

Interestingly, Tsukiko is actively attempting to avoid undeath, or at least was here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0521.html)

Ancalagon

2010-01-20, 04:43 PM

Interestingly, Tsukiko is actively attempting to avoid undeath, or at least was here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0521.html)

No. She was evading level-drain.

Closak

2010-01-20, 04:44 PM

Tsukiko may be insane, but she does have a point.

Humans ARE bastards.

Morty

2010-01-20, 04:54 PM

Mystic Muse

2010-01-20, 05:33 PM

Tsukiko may be insane, but she does have a point.

Humans ARE bastards.

And Dragons aren't?

Closak

2010-01-20, 05:59 PM

Mystic Muse

2010-01-20, 06:03 PM

"Look it's a baby. Wait the baby is a goblin, that makes it okay to kill it!!!" (SLASH SLASH STAB)

"look. it's the person who killed my family. instead of simply getting my revenge by killing him I'm going to slowly torture Hir family then trap them in soul gems and hide them away so that s/he's tortured for the entire rest of eternity."

Closak

2010-01-20, 06:10 PM

...Touche.

"Oh look a dragon, we are gonna kill it and take it's stuff because we can!"

"No i am not gonna try to convince it to surrender, instead i'm going to brutally murder it in order to satisfy my own belief that i have the right to do anything and get away with it. Also, i like killing stuff for the hell of it"

"Oh look i'm gonna commit genocide over something that i started, there's no way i'm going to accept the consequences of my actions, i just brutally murder everything that tries to make me pay for my past crimes!"

Damn elf, thinking you can do anything and get away with it.
Thinking you have the right to do anything and expecting that no one will get angry and try to put you in your place.

Mystic Muse

2010-01-20, 06:19 PM

Umm. the Dragon attacked FIRST.

And believe me, I don't think Familicide was justified in the least

Optimystik

2010-01-20, 06:23 PM

To prevent this from degenerating into quote streams, I'll just say - Both V and Mama were wrong, and two wrongs don't make a right.

And I'm sorry, but "Han shot first" does not apply to Familicide. At all. It was grossly uncalled for, and unequivocally Evil.

Mystic Muse

2010-01-20, 06:34 PM

I didn't mean it justified familicide if that's how it sounded. I mean the young black dragon attacked the OOTS first. They didn't just go in and say "hey, lets kill this dragon and take its stuff because we can"

Optimystik

2010-01-20, 06:44 PM

Kish

2010-01-20, 06:45 PM

Argh, here we go again.

I mean the young black dragon attacked the OOTS first.
Unless you define the presence of the darkness sphere itself as an attack, we don't know that. The Order emerged from the darkness sphere, ran back in, then the next strip skipped to a battle in progress. The dragon specifically demonstrated willingness to talk to the small lizard, and Vaarsuvius' immediate response was to attempt to enslave it.

Beyond that, "Humans ARE bastards." "And dragons aren't?" looks to me like a non-sequitur. Tsukiko would likely approve of the Familicide, as much as she would approve of doing anything to all those dragons except turning them into dracoliches. This thread isn't about Vaarsuvius...

someone trying to get the thread back on track
Check! Again, since Sleepingbear already did this one.

Mystic Muse

2010-01-20, 06:52 PM

Ah. yeah I guess that makes what happened in the cave entirely up for debate.

Now I will stop derailing the thread.

(the "and dragons aren't" thing is because Closak likes to think he's a dragon)

Spiky

2010-01-20, 08:25 PM

Tsukiko may be insane, but she does have a point.

Humans ARE bastards.

I know a worse problem. Which causes the bastard problem, both types.

Humans are stupid. And selfish. (not sure which is at the top)

TheSummoner

2010-01-20, 08:41 PM

Bah, don't be so down on humans. The only reason Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, and every other race in OotS isn't stupid and selfish is because they aren't real. =P

ShinyDelusion

2010-01-20, 10:38 PM

(which gives me an eerie hint of deja vu regarding a franchise of books and movies popular with teenage girls nowadays... I really hope that's just my paranoia)

I don't think this is paranoia. I've always suspected that The Giant thought it would be fun to take the vampire fangirl to her natural extreme to bring the squick factor to light while still keeping the whole thing humorous.

also, you think she is someone who would wear black or white to her wedding with xykon? speculate here!

"Blood" red with black lace.

Anyway, here's my thoughts on Tsukiko's future: Which happens to be the actual intended topic of conversation here.

1. If she finally realizes what an awful being Xykon is and that he'll never love her and that he is really and truly the biggest jerk she's ever met, she'll die shortly after this epiphany.

2. If she never has that revelation, she'll die semi-happily sacrificing herself for Xykon.

I just don't see her surviving the comic.

Also, on the subject of her beliefs about the living and the undead, personally I think some of that philosophy was dumbed down for the Monster in the Darkness' sake.

see

2010-01-21, 01:14 AM

a) Just wanted to point out that getting to epic casting on both sides as a MT is extremely difficult.

Eh. You only need 17th-level spell progression in Wizard and Cleric to meet the spellcasting prereq. That can be achieved at level 24, three after you get Epic access on one side.

Example Progression: Clr 3, Wiz 3, MT 10 (16th, Wiz 13/Clr 13), Clr 4 (20th, Wiz 13/Clr 17), Wiz 1 (21st, buy Epic Spellcasting feat, get divine epic access), Wiz 3 (24th, Wiz 17/Clr 17, get arcane epic access).

The problem, optimization-wise, is that you're not slinging as many higher-level non-epic spells as you could be as a single-classed caster, and your spellcaster level will be trailing seriously. But you can get the epic spells in one class at the minimum of 21 and then pick up the other at 24, giving you twice as many epic spells as any single-classed caster.

Larkspur

2010-01-21, 08:35 AM

...If the gate ritual requires epic level casters, it was incredibly poorly designed. There aren't any epic level goblins around. Even Redcloak isn't.

I'm guessing Tsukiko's non-epicness is not going to be a problem.

Trying to make Xykon watch Twilight with her may prove her undoing, though.

Darakonis

2010-01-21, 02:36 PM

Inefficient car engines cause more pollution than necessary. Pollution kills living beings. QED.

If that's what the poster meant, then that's quite a stretch in analogy.

Inefficient car engines, in and of themselves, do not require that living beings die. Fossil fuels don't even require that living beings die. The death of living beings is an unfortunate side-effect of the pollution -- not a requirement.

A better (though not great) analogy would be, "She probably knows that the reason everybody hates undead is because like delicious steak dinners, they require lives of other living beings to exist."

Peace
-Darakonis

Conuly

2010-01-21, 06:18 PM

Fossil fuels don't even require that living beings die.

Except for the ones that have already died, giving us first fossils and then, you know, fossil fuels.

Spiky

2010-01-22, 12:47 AM

Bah, don't be so down on humans. The only reason Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, and every other race in OotS isn't stupid and selfish is because they aren't real. =P

Who's talking about OOTS??

Darakonis

2010-01-22, 01:35 AM

Except for the ones that have already died, giving us first fossils and then, you know, fossil fuels.
Granted, the gross definition of "living being" includes plants and microorganisms, but in conversation, "living being" traditionally implies humans and other animals. Although the death of phytoplankton and zooplankton can be considered the death of "living beings," those were not the living beings the poster was referring to.

Peace
-Darakonis

martinkou

2010-01-22, 02:22 AM

Although the death of phytoplankton and zooplankton can be considered the death of "living beings," those were not the living beings the poster was referring to.

Peace
-Darakonis

Ok.

First you guys discriminate against people of different races.
Then, you guys discriminate against the caring, sensitive and honest undead.
Now, you guys discriminate against algae who are literally the foundation of your food chain!

You're all like..
"Look, I'm at the top of the food chain, and I'm awesome. Who cares about those poor little phytoplankton who still need do photosynthesis for a living."

Damn it! Tsukiko is right! Humans suck!

LurkerInPlayground

2010-01-22, 02:24 AM

Tsukiko isn't insane. She's your regular angsty teenager/young adult, only she's got spellcaster levels and lives in a magical world both of which allow her to take her "people suck" philosophy onto an entirely different level.
She's a Twilight fan.

The undead are so mysterious and misunderstood. And I'm sexually attracted to them.

I lol'd hard today.

DBear

2010-01-27, 12:28 PM

Tsukiko is what Haley could've become. :smalleek:

Boogastreehouse

2010-01-27, 11:36 PM

Dragons aren't the ones responsible for who knows how many species of animals going extinct, nor the ones responsible for cutting down the rainforests, melting the polar ice caps, or just plain screw up the environment to the point that in a few hundred years the whole planet may have been rendered uninhabitable (Of course this is the real world, but still...)

Guess who's doing all of those things.

And for a in-comic example.

"Look it's a baby. Wait the baby is a goblin, that makes it okay to kill it!!!" (SLASH SLASH STAB)

The vast majority of animal extinctions on Earth were not caused by humans. Animals not being able to adapt to changes in their environment has got to be the biggest cause of extinctions, and most extinctions occurred before man even existed.

Not only that, but humans are the only animal on earth who have ever developed any sort of concern for the extinction of other species at all. Granted, only some humans are truly concerned, but it's a concept that never existed on Earth before humans came up with it, so give it a little time to catch on.

On the whole, I'd venture to say that saying humans suck for causing extinctions is just as dumb as saying that undead are good because they are the opposite of humans.

I'm kind of surprised Tsukiko hasn't opted for undeath herself yet, if she's so into them. Do you suppose the reality disconnect only goes so far?

I don't know if that logic really works here. I mean I really like women, but that doesn't mean I want to be one.

LurkerInPlayground

2010-01-27, 11:39 PM

Not only that, but humans are the only animal on earth who have ever developed any sort of concern for the extinction of other species at all. Granted, only some humans are truly concerned, but it's a concept that never existed on Earth before humans came up with it, so give it a little time to catch on.
Nah. As Robert E. Howard has taught us, these concerns are the exception and not the rule. Eventually, even man will be swept into barbarism and into the eternal night.