Gesalt Lvl Adj and Monster Lvls (3.5)

[Kelunas]

I've been DMing my first Gesalt game for a while, we just got a new player and he wants to play a troll barbarian.

I am debating on how to handle the level adjust (5) and monster HD (6).

The player believes by ECL 11 it should be 5 LA, 6 Troll // 11 Barbarian.

This seems way out of balance with non-monstrous characters (since lvl adjust should cost you HD, BAB, Saves, etc and not just access to class abilities).

I was thinking of putting the LA on both sides but the monster levels on just one, thus: 5 LA, 6 Troll // 5 LA, 6 Barbarian.

Another player proposed the first method but forcing him to split the LA evenly across both sides: 3 LA, 6 Troll, 2 Class // 2 LA, 9 Barbarian.

I want to try and keep it somewhat balanced (The rest of the party are spellcasters of one type or another) and I figure in the long run the spellcasters will become very powerful.

Opinions, ideas ?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Depends, is your Plaer goingot o abuse it? if not I say go ahead as RHD 6 LA5// Barbarian 11 since unless he optimize he will be left out by the casters.

Also what ECL are you starting at?

[Eloel]

I think it should be LA5/HD6//Class11, mainly because gestalt is one of the few opportunities to play a high HD/LA race - don't kill the fun :p

[Gnaeus]

La5/RHD6//Barbarian 11 is not in any way more powerful than a gestalt involving a full caster. The full caster rewrites reality, all the troll does is hit things hard. You should allow it.

If you put the LA on both sides, it is effectively keeping anyone from playing monsters. La is generally too high to begin with, and doubling it makes it really bad.

A compromise is making the RHD and LA go on opposite sides. LA 5/Barbarian 6//RHD 6/Any other class 5. This isn't as good as a caster, but doesn't suck.

[Kelunas]

Also what ECL are you starting at?

ECL 11. Hence the example.

As for the player he is not at all the type to abuse of the rules. I was just worried that the other players might feel overshadowed. You're probably right.

[Tanuki Tales]

ECL 11. Hence the example.

As for the player he is not at all the type to abuse of the rules. I was just worried that the other players might feel overshadowed. You're probably right.

Level 11 Casters feeling overshadowed by a Troll Barbarian? :smallconfused:

[Kylarra]

In a game with fullcasters over level 11, I'd say just let him take it on one side. He'll be a great tank, but your casters will just overshadow him anyway.

[Dusk Eclipse]

ECL 11. Hence the example.

As for the player he is not at all the type to abuse of the rules. I was just worried that the other players might feel overshadowed. You're probably right.

Just try to give all characters equal oprtunities to shine and I think you should be fine.

[Toliudar]

+1 to the above. Unless the other players are making very poor use of their abilities, the troll should not overshadow them - except literally.

[Grumman]

I agree with ozgun92 and Gnaeus. LA is bad enough in a normal game, making it make you lose out on two sets of class features would be even worse.

[Gnaeus]

To put it another way, a Sorcerer or Wizard 11//Barbarian 11 can Polymorph into a troll, fight almost as well as the actual troll, and still be a full spellcaster. A druid 11//Barbarian 11 can Wildshape into something as big and strong as a troll and stay that way all day while still casting. Troll is no biggie for level 11 gestalt.

[Draz74]

It's true the character won't be game-breaking no matter what you do, if it's a Barbarian in a party of full casters. But you want to be sure to set a safe precedent for future Gestalt Monsters, right? If so,


Another player proposed the first method but forcing him to split the LA evenly across both sides: 3 LA, 6 Troll, 2 Class // 2 LA, 9 Barbarian.

... then this is more or less what I've found to be the best. Cut the LA in half (I recommend rounding down, actually, so the character will only end up with +2 LA), but apply it to both sides. Only apply Racial Hit Dice to one side.

So this would end up with Troll Barbarian 9 // [Giant RHD] 6 / something else 3 at ECL 11.

Again, Troll isn't really a very devastating Gestalt critter, but this rule is what you'll want if players ever ask to be a Nymph or a Couatl.

[Gnaeus]

I think Draz's fears are overstated. Nymph or Couatl don't break gestalt any more than normal class builds. Full caster//factotum owns them. I think the worst you should do is make LA and RHD go on opposite sides, so at least he can be an 11 HD bruiser, and he doesn't have totally dead levels counting against his BAB, saves, etc.