Why do people keep writing "O'Chul"?

[Shale]

He's not Scottish.

[Kish]

It's better than Old Chul.

Or Shinjo.

[Ancalagon]

He's not Scottish.

How do you know that? Maybe he is from there?

[Shale]

Obviously, if he was Scottish, he'd be a dwarf. Or possibly a highland warrior of some sort. That's just how these things work.

[silversaraph]

Could someone explain this to me? I don't get the phonetics.

And as long as I'm at that, how do you prenounce Elans name? Is it Eeh-lahn, or Eh-len (Or something else?)

[Ancalagon]

Obviously, if he was Scottish, he'd be a dwarf. Or possibly a highland warrior of some sort. That's just how these things work.

He's a fighter as well, so he proficient in greatswords. Claymores. Thus, he could very well be from scottland.

[chionophile]

Could someone explain this to me? I don't get the phonetics.

And as long as I'm at that, how do you prenounce Elans name? Is it Eeh-lahn, or Eh-len (Or something else?)

According to Rich, it's pronounced EE-lin, I believe. Personally, I don't like that and always pronounce it EH-lahn in my head.

As for O-Chul, his name is properly spelled with a dash, but a lot of people use an apostrophe. Most names with an apostrophe have a Scottish or Irish origin (O'Brien, O'Malley...). At least, I think that's the complaint.

[Shale]

I just don't get how you habitually misspell a name that you only know from reading it. I wonder the same thing about "Hayley" and "Zykon," (or "Xycon") but don't see them as often.

[Kish]

He's a fighter as well, so he proficient in greatswords.
Greatswords are martial weapons. Paladins are proficient in all martial weapons.

[SaintRidley]

According to Rich, it's pronounced EE-lin, I believe. Personally, I don't like that and always pronounce it EH-lahn in my head.

As for O-Chul, his name is properly spelled with a dash, but a lot of people use an apostrophe. Most names with an apostrophe have a Scottish or Irish origin (O'Brien, O'Malley...). At least, I think that's the complaint.

A pedant would say you mean hyphen.

I, however, am nothing if not hypocritical and will simply heavily imply it.

[chionophile]

A pedant would say you mean hyphen.

I, however, am nothing if not hypocritical and will simply heavily imply it.

I'll be honest, I considered looking up which was the proper term. Then I said "Screw it," and went with the shorter one.

[SaintRidley]

I'll be honest, I considered looking up which was the proper term. Then I said "Screw it," and went with the shorter one.

A reasonable course of action.

I mostly do what I do to keep sharp, more than anything else.

[SoC175]

and "Zykon,"
Z's are for ******* :smallsmile:

Edit: *******?? But that was a direct quote from SoD. Dirty, dirty Mr. Burlew :smallredface:

[veti]

The O-apostrophe prefix is Irish, not Scots. But that applies to surnames, and "O-Chul" appears to be a personal name, rather than a family one.

The moral is: if you must insist on putting gratuitous punctuation in your made-up fantasy names, you should expect even more smelling pistakes than usual.

[Optimystik]

The O-apostrophe prefix is Irish, not Scots. But that applies to surnames, and "O-Chul" appears to be a personal name, rather than a family one.

The moral is: if you must insist on putting gratuitous punctuation in your made-up fantasy names, you should expect even more smelling pistakes than usual.

Why are we defaulting to European phonetics? IIRC, "O-" is a prefix in Japanese as well, which is what Azurite culture is based on.

e.g. O-Kagachi, O-Naka, O-Mizu, etc.

[Sholos]

Why are we defaulting to European phonetics? IIRC, "O-" is a prefix in Japanese as well, which is what Azurite culture is based on.

e.g. O-Kagachi, O-Naka, O-Mizu, etc.

I believe it's because the question was about why people spell the name "O'Chul" and not "O-Chul".

[AceOfFools]

Why are we defaulting to European phonetics? IIRC, "O-" is a prefix in Japanese as well, which is what Azurite culture is based on.

e.g. O-Kagachi, O-Naka, O-Mizu, etc.

Yeah... that prefix implies honor/respect to what follows. It's been a while, but I believe the peasants in Samurai 7 occasionally address some of the friendly samurai as "O-samurai-sama".

wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorific_speech_in_Japanese#Word_beautification)

Putting it in a name like that all the time would be weird in a non-noble Japanese name, but as Miko once pointed out, there is no such thing as Japanese.

[NerfTW]

According to Rich, it's pronounced EE-lin, I believe. Personally, I don't like that and always pronounce it EH-lahn in my head.


And if you ever called a guy named Elan "EH-lahn", you'd probably be punched for calling him a girl's name. (Ellen)

[chionophile]

And if you ever called a guy named Elan "EH-lahn", you'd probably be punched for calling him a girl's name. (Ellen)

Er, those aren't pronounced the same. Ellen is EH-lin or EH-len. Not the same as EH-lahn (or EH-lawn if that makes more sense).

Edit: Additionally, the real word elan is also pronounced with a long a (and a french accent).

[TimelordSimone]

You know I haven't ever noticed this.

I do, however, get mildly frustrated watching people discuss Gerard's gate.
(My friend Gerard, on the other hand...)

[ThePhantasm]

Here's why. I don't care. He's a fictional character in an online comic strip. Everyone knows who I'm talking about whether I spell it O'Chul or O-Chul. I don't have time to check over a forum post to see if every little hyphen is right. I'm not writing an academic paper, I'm writing a freakin forum post.

Sorry if that sounds blunt, I'm just giving an honest answer. No one is intentionally disrespecting the character, and no one is being unintelligent just because they don't double-check special marks in a secondary character's name.

[FujinAkari]

Here's why. I don't care. He's a fictional character in an online comic strip. Everyone knows who I'm talking about whether I spell it O'Chul or O-Chul. I don't have time to check over a forum post to see if every little hyphen is right. I'm not writing an academic paper, I'm writing a freakin forum post.

This begs the question of why anyone should care about your forum post if you don't even bother to familiarize yourself with what you're posting about.

[NerfTW]

"lehn" and "lahn" are practically the same in most accents.


As for the opening post, probably because Xykon is a far more prominent character. O-chul, until recently, rarely appears, his name even less so. It's not an issue of laziness so much as his name really doesn't appear in the strip that much, and is odd to boot. (Hell, people still don't bother spelling Varsuvius's name, and that appears all the time!)

[Ted The Bug]

That would be Irish, me laddie.
Just sayin'.

[ChowGuy]

This begs the question of why anyone should care about your forum post if you don't even bother to familiarize yourself with what you're posting about.
Aw, cut TheFantasm some slack for crying out loud! :smallwink:

[ScottishDragon]

Obviously, if he was Scottish, he'd be a dwarf. Or possibly a highland warrior of some sort. That's just how these things work.

Dragons are scottish,so thats not how it works.

[Nimrod's Son]

He's not Scottish.
"O'" is an Irish prefix. The common Scottish equivalent is "Mc".


According to Rich, it's pronounced EE-lin, I believe. Personally, I don't like that and always pronounce it EH-lahn in my head.
Rich didn't take into account his own accent when he typed that. Having heard him say Elan's name in an audio interview that's kicking around somewhere, I'd say that in the IPA it would be written as ˈiːl(ə)n, and pronounced as in "New Zealand".


Z's are for ******* :smallsmile:

Edit: *******?? But that was a direct quote from SoD. Dirty, dirty Mr. Burlew :smallredface:
Asterisks are for *******. :smalltongue:

[ScottishDragon]

"O'" is an Irish prefix. The common Scottish equivalent is "Mc".

Mc-chul,hmm,has a nice ring to it.

[Azukar]

A pedant would say you mean hyphen.

I, however, am nothing if not hypocritical and will simply heavily imply it.

A different pedant might point out that, "I... am nothing if not hypocritical", means that the speaker is hypocritical, and would therefore have no qualms in outright stating that the offending punctuation was a hyphen, not merely a dash.

[derfenrirwolv]

because you can write it without looking at the keyboard. i know where the " key is, i can never find the -

[averagejoe]

Because O-Chul is so mighty that only a few people have the strength of will to properly reproduce his name.


because you can write it without looking at the keyboard. i know where the " key is, i can never find the -

My robot's brain exploded when he read this. Thanks a lot.

[Ancalagon]

I just don't get how you habitually misspell a name that you only know from reading it. I wonder the same thing about "Hayley" and "Zykon," (or "Xycon") but don't see them as often.

So far I have not taken the question very serious (as you might have guessed from my previous posts here) but I'll give my explanation (which I think is a rather obvious one).

Most of us do not come from places where names are written with ' or -. The exception are people from Ireland and... well, a very few others. The rest of america and central europe (amounting to... 90%? more? of oots-readers) just don't have that. Names consist of plain letters and that's it (unless you deal with double names of married people, like "Müller-Hoppenstädt", but in these cases, the "-" is very, very obvious and needed: it is part of our name-culture (Question: Is this name-combining common in the US as well?)).
Letters are what we are used to remember and to deal with, that "strange character" in some name is not.

Thus, people know the letter-part of the name ("OChul"), but not "that strange character" as it's something most of us are not used to in names, thus a "fitting character" gets put in. As the ' is much more common than the - in the european and american area for names (found e.g. irish) it seems to be a quite probable mistake. Add the fact that both versions are read intermixed which each other (correct version in the comic + wrong and correct version in the forum) and the problem increases a bit more.

This is in contrast, for example, to "Zykon", which is made by people who are either new to the comic and thus cannot remember it correctly when they post ("something like Zeikon or so, and it had a 'y' in it"; keep in mind that some people "learn" more visual (seeing, reading something) and other brains work more with the audio (like how something (that was read) sounds)) or people who just don't bother due to pure laziness (and lamely exuse themselves with "english is not my first language").

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Everyone knows who I'm talking about whether I spell it O'Chul or O-Chul.
Only because there is for the time being no other character with a name that could be misspelled similarly. Therefore, we can apply some inductive reasoning and arrive at appropriate conclusion. However, we are not mind readers. You cannot assume we just happen to know what you are talking about. If you wish to communicate a message, you need to make it clear. This includes spelling names correctly. You cannot always rely on your audience to properly induce what you mean.

[Ron Miel]

Why do people keep writing "O'Chul"? He's not Scottish.

"ignorance, madam, sheer ignorance."
Samuel Johnson

[Feefers]

WMG: It's actually Lucho, he's a mexican wrestler that was kidnapped from his time stream and ... ... uh ... ...

Maybe not.

[Dr.Epic]

How do you know that? Maybe he is from there?

Then shouldn't he talk like Durkon? Also, just be glad we don't have to deal with any more "Shinjo"s.

[ThePhantasm]

This begs the question of why anyone should care about your forum post if you don't even bother to familiarize yourself with what you're posting about.

There's a difference between being familiar and being anally accurate. And if no one cares about my forum post because I didn't add the right punctuation mark in the middle of a person's name, then that's their problem, not mine. I'm not going to sit around wringing my hands as if I'm some idiot or made a massive error by not using a hyphen.


Only because there is for the time being no other character with a name that could be misspelled similarly. Therefore, we can apply some inductive reasoning and arrive at appropriate conclusion. However, we are not mind readers. You cannot assume we just happen to know what you are talking about. If you wish to communicate a message, you need to make it clear. This includes spelling names correctly. You cannot always rely on your audience to properly induce what you mean.

Its an internet forum. I have a life outside of it. If someone can't figure it out because of a simple hyphen, dash, or apostrophe, I won't cry over the misunderstanding. Who cares?

[derfenrirwolv]

Spelling is like horseshoes hand-grenades and nucklearbombs. Close is good enough

[Kish]

Who cares?
The person who started this thread, evidently.

While I have yet to mistake O'Chul for the name of someone other than O-Chul who is actually in the comic, in general I object to the argument form, "Everyone knows what I mean, it's not worth my effort to type accurately." That slope is extremely slippery. In the short run, it leads to Shinjo, which could be either Shojo or Hinjo and either way screams "I'm not paying attention to the character I'm talking about at all, not even to make the trivial mental effort necessary to figure out whether I actually mean Shojo or Hinjo; if you think whatever I just said about him is worth figuring out anyway, you'll have to deduce from context which one I mean, first." In th lngr run it lds to abmnatns lk ths, nd no, im not jking.

[The MunchKING]

A different pedant might point out that, "I... am nothing if not hypocritical", means that the speaker is hypocritical, and would therefore have no qualms in outright stating that the offending punctuation was a hyphen, not merely a dash.

Unles he's saying he IS a pendant, and thus since he's being hypocritical he's not going to say it, just imply it.

[ThePhantasm]

The person who started this thread, evidently.

While I have yet to mistake O'Chul for the name of someone other than O-Chul who is actually in the comic, in general I object to the argument form, "Everyone knows what I mean, it's not worth my effort to type accurately." That slope is extremely slippery. In the short run, it leads to Shinjo, which could be either Shojo or Hinjo and either way screams "I'm not paying attention to the character I'm talking about at all, not even to make the trivial mental effort necessary to figure out whether I actually mean Shojo or Hinjo; if you think whatever I just said about him is worth figuring out anyway, you'll have to deduce from context which one I mean, first." In th lngr run it lds to abmnatns lk ths, nd no, im not jking.

No, that's a logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope) to assume that because I am not extreme about spelling a guys name with a hyphen or an apostrophe that all hell is going to break loose and I will stop caring about spelling at all. It doesn't "lead to" anything. I'm not stating that I don't care about being comprehensible.

[averagejoe]

Its an internet forum. I have a life outside of it.

Aw, man, now I feel like a loser. :smallfrown:

[Dancing_Fox]

Why do people keep writing "O'Chul"?

Well, some might say because they an apostrophe indicates an omission, such as "they're" instead of "they are."

In this case, they are simply using the short form of "O'Chul" for "Orsome Chul!" Which in their minds, he is, of course. (And they spell it like that too. In their heads, of course. As well as on the page.)

Not me of course. I would not say that, as I'm not a rabid member of the O-Chul fan club who likes to mis-spell things in their heads and wreak havoc with apostrophes.

- - -

I believe that the original question has been answered - they do it because of lack of attention to detail. A simple oversight.

I would also add that "It has never really bothered me" when it is written this way. Many grammar and spelling errors bother me - this one hasn't.

a) As has been pointed out, this is a web comic forum. Some typos are expected.
b) I know instantly and immediately who is being referred to - and parse the word just fine without any pausing to stop because of the punctuation difference.
c) All of the letters are there and in the right order, so the magnitude of the transgression is minor.
d) The general standard of grammar, spelling and attention to detail on this forum is at a quite high standard. For a web forum, and especially when compared to other forums. (Have you seen what else is out there? Horrid!)
e) Any hope that preventing or even significantly lessening this typo from appearing in the future is patently doomed. A noble effort, but doomed. (I think that strict enforcement against a specific user would be against the spirit of one of the FAQ points too.)
f) Gee golly gosh, aren't there far worse grammar, spelling, logical failures etc out there?


Okay. I've just spent some time that I didn't need to in this thread (Meh - a lull at work). On the upside, I don't have that "I have wasted these minutes of my life" feeling that I've had when dipping into some other, to remain nameless, threads. And a few times lately, I've really had that feeling.

I gained a particular joy from seeing some true spelling and grammar experts step up to demonstrate their expertise. Seriously, I get a kick out of seeing someone do something well. I'm also in awe of the phonetics - I have no talent in that area and admire anyone who can transform the bizarre phonetic marks into speech and vice versa.

I'm now going to have to pull out my Style Guide to check up on dashes and hyphens when used in names.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Who cares?
The people who are left to piece together what you said for one.


No, that's a logical fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope) to assume that because I am not extreme about spelling a guys name with a hyphen or an apostrophe that all hell is going to break loose and I will stop caring about spelling at all.
But like other things, taking care with the way you communicate is a skill that can be improved on. It is certainly not a fallacy to point out that, as with other skills, practice makes perfect, and lack of practice causes stagnation or even atrophy. Even if being sloppy doesn’t lead to some absurd extreme, it certainly doesn’t help the signal to noise ratio.

[ThePhantasm]

The people who are left to piece together what you said for one.

What is there to piece together? Its simple typos and hyphens we're talking about here, not cryptic messages, LEET speak, or riddles in the dark.


But like other things, taking care with the way you communicate is a skill that can be improved on. It is certainly not a fallacy to point out that, as with other skills, practice makes perfect, and lack of practice causes stagnation or even atrophy. Even if being sloppy doesn’t lead to some absurd extreme, it certainly doesn’t help the signal to noise ratio.

It is a skill I have improved on. I've written academic papers. Taking time to check and see if its supposed to be O'Chul or O-Chul doesn't help me practice anything, and frankly its a waste of time. I'm not speaking for forum posters who can't read or write on a basic level, I'm speaking about people who can and have exhibited intelligent writing skills but because this is simply a forum for an online comic strip don't want or care to provide the attention that they would apply for an academic paper to an online post.

Frankly I think anyone who gets bent out of shape over simple name misspellings like this have their priorities screwed up.

[veti]

There are such things as spelling mistakes that really don't matter, and "O'Chul" is one of them. That's not true of mistakes in general - it's blind luck applying to this particular case, because this mistake doesn't create any ambiguity.

But I'd say it's a mistake to allow that argument to take on any form that can be generalised to "accurate spelling doesn't matter because the subject and/or forum are so trivial." If you really think these things are so trivial, then what are you doing posting here?

As to the question itself, I think Ancagalon has it right. Punctuation in names is unusual. It's not surprising people find it hard to remember.

[lio45]

He's a fighter as well, so he proficient in greatswords. Claymores. Thus, he could very well be from scottland.

Are you saying with a straight face that you think there's a possibility that O-Chul isn't Asian?

[FabuVinny]

What is this Asia you speak of?

O-Chul is from the Southern lands. (While Durkon's accent is presumably from the Northern lands.)

[lio45]

What is this Asia you speak of?

You know, the continent where the Japan that Roy speaks of in strip #0209 is located...

Should ring a bell... otherwise, just ask Roy ;)

[Deme]

You know, the continent where the Japan that Roy speaks of in strip #0209 is located...

Should ring a bell... otherwise, just ask Roy ;)

...The Japan that Roy speaks of is an island, and isn't really part of the continental landmass in a way that is significant to humans (I am not an expert on the bottom of the sea -- it may be due to shelves or whatever). So... apparently no one knows of this "Asia" of which we are discussing. :smalltongue:

[ThePhantasm]

But I'd say it's a mistake to allow that argument to take on any form that can be generalised to "accurate spelling doesn't matter because the subject and/or forum are so trivial." If you really think these things are so trivial, then what are you doing posting here?

Its not that the forum is SO trivial that you shouldn't care about how you post whatsoever. I didn't say that. Its comparatively or relatively trivial, contrasted with other more serious and valuable things in life. Just because I don't fall into the pit of one extreme (over-anal superperfectionism) doesn't mean I fall into the other extreme (not caring about posting at all / total apathy).

[warrl]

Unles he's saying he IS a pendant

He'd be just hanging around, I suppose. :tongue:

[Ancalagon]

Are you saying with a straight face that you think there's a possibility that O-Chul isn't Asian?

I'm saying you should read my serious post (means the "entire thread") before you quote something from the beginning/middle).

[lio45]

I'm saying you should read my serious post (means the "entire thread") before you quote something from the beginning/middle).

OK, if you insist, I'll read the entire thread, and all your posts beyond your first. (There are two more.)


He's a fighter as well, so he proficient in greatswords. Claymores. Thus, he could very well be from scottland.

Uh, no. He's not from Scotland.


So far I have not taken the question very serious (as you might have guessed from my previous posts here) but I'll give my explanation (which I think is a rather obvious one).

Most of us do not come from places where names are written with ' or -. The exception are people from Ireland and... well, a very few others. The rest of america and central europe (amounting to... 90%? more? of oots-readers) just don't have that. Names consist of plain letters and that's it (unless you deal with double names of married people, like "Müller-Hoppenstädt", but in these cases, the "-" is very, very obvious and needed: it is part of our name-culture (Question: Is this name-combining common in the US as well?)).
Letters are what we are used to remember and to deal with, that "strange character" in some name is not.

Wrong, although you'll agree with my objections since you say the same thing in the rest of your post (quoted below).

The comic's clientele is actually mostly American, and that's basically Rich's only target audience, to which the jokes are always tailored. In fact, OotS is so American-centric that you'll occasionally see things in the comic that need to be explained to non-Americans...

And in the US, when a name begins with O, it's always O'Something and it's always Irish-American.

So, most readers of the comic come from a place where O names always start with O', never O-.


Thus, people know the letter-part of the name ("OChul"), but not "that strange character" as it's something most of us are not used to in names, thus a "fitting character" gets put in. As the ' is much more common than the - in the european and american area for names (found e.g. irish) it seems to be a quite probable mistake. Add the fact that both versions are read intermixed which each other (correct version in the comic + wrong and correct version in the forum) and the problem increases a bit more.

This is in contrast, for example, to "Zykon", which is made by people who are either new to the comic and thus cannot remember it correctly when they post ("something like Zeikon or so, and it had a 'y' in it"; keep in mind that some people "learn" more visual (seeing, reading something) and other brains work more with the audio (like how something (that was read) sounds)) or people who just don't bother due to pure laziness (and lamely exuse themselves with "english is not my first language").

How someone can write "Zykon" is beyond me. As someone said already, the ONLY way to see/learn the names is READING THEM. That capital 'X' isn't big enough?

I could understand someone who has only listened to OotS Audio Books writing Zykon, but clearly, that excuse doesn't work. ;)

[Ancalagon]

Uh, no. He's not from Scotland.

Read the first line of the other post you just quoted and it'll become clear.


Wrong, although you'll agree with my objections since you say the same thing in the rest of your post (quoted below).

How can you say wrong when I'm right and you even support what I wrote with what you wrote?
"Most people are more familiar with the ' in names than -."

Anyway, the issue is over for me. And the OP has reached his aim as quite some people will now write the name in the correct way.

[Asta Kask]

That would be Irish, me laddie.
Just sayin'.

Well, the Scots are originally Irish. Came over during the Dark Ages. 'Scotus' is Latin for Irish, and the Scots were an Irish tribe who decided to broaden their horizons. 'Mac' means 'son of' and 'O' means descendant of. So O'Chul would mean 'descendant of Chul'. Which makes me wonder about O-Chul's ancestry. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuul)

[lio45]

How can you say wrong when I'm right and you even support what I wrote with what you wrote?

Well, the first part of your post kinda contradicts the second part. (See parts quoted below.) That's how you can be both right and wrong. :) As I said anyway, the only point where you're not totally right is when you say that (massively American) OotS readers aren't used to O'Something as a fairly common family name.

(Re: your theory about O'Chul being Scots-Irish, well, if that was sarcasm, it wasn't THAT clear. My apologies.)


Most of us do not come from places where names are written with ' or -. The exception are people from Ireland and... well, a very few others. The rest of america and central europe (amounting to... 90%? more? of oots-readers) just don't have that. Names consist of plain letters and that's it


As the ' is much more common than the - in the european and american area for names (found e.g. irish)

[SaintRidley]

Spelling is like horseshoes hand-grenades and nucklearbombs. Close is good enough

Not really.

Try reading this and tell me you don't wish for standardised spelling as we now have:

Whan thar Aprill with his shoures soote
The droghte of March hath perced to the roote,
And bathed every veyne in swich licour
Of which vertu engendered is the flour;
Whan Zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the Ram his half cours yronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open ye
(So Priketh hem Nature in hir corages),
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,
And palmeres for to seken straunge stronges,
To ferne hawles, kowthe in sondry londes;
And specially from every shires ende
Of Engelond to Caunterbury they wende,
The hooly blisful martir for to seke
That hem hath holpen whan that they were seeke.



Or, for a slightly more challenging one:

The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne,
Th'assay so hard, so sharp the conquerynge,
The dredful joye alwey that slit so yerne:
Al this mene I by Love, that my felynge
Astonyeth with his wonderful werkynge
So sore, iwis, that whan I on hym thynke
Nat wot I wel where that I flete or synke.

For al be that I knowe nat Love in dede,
Ne wot how that he quiteth folke here hyre,
Yit happeth me ful ofte in bokes reede
Of his myrakles and his crewel yre.
There rede I wel he wol be lord and syre;
I dar nat seyn, his strokes been so sore,
But "God save swich a lord!" -- I can na moore.

Of usage -- what for lust and what for lore --
One bokes rede I ofte, as I yow tolde.
But wherfore that I speke al this? Nat yoore
Agon it happede me for to beholde
Upon a bok, was write with lettres olde,
And therupon, a certeyn thing to lerne,
The longe day ful faste I redde and yerne.



Spelling is very important. We should all be glad we've moved beyond those days.

[Anteros]

Only because there is for the time being no other character with a name that could be misspelled similarly. Therefore, we can apply some inductive reasoning and arrive at appropriate conclusion. However, we are not mind readers. You cannot assume we just happen to know what you are talking about. If you wish to communicate a message, you need to make it clear. This includes spelling names correctly. You cannot always rely on your audience to properly induce what you mean.

Man, if someone can't figure out that "O'Chul" actually means "O-Chul" they probably aren't going to be adding much of value to the conversation anyway.

There are always going to be people who get upset over spelling and punctuation, but personally I don't see the big deal. The purpose of language is to convey ideas. As long as people are able to do this, I don't care about a few typos.

If they bother you so much, feel free to skip over those posts.

[SaintRidley]

How someone can write "Zykon" is beyond me. As someone said already, the ONLY way to see/learn the names is READING THEM. That capital 'X' isn't big enough?

I could understand someone who has only listened to OotS Audio Books writing Zykon, but clearly, that excuse doesn't work. ;)

Especially since Xykon knows when his name is being misspelled by someone who is speaking.

[BillyJimBoBob]

A different pedant might point out that, "I... am nothing if not hypocritical", means that the speaker is hypocritical, and would therefore have no qualms in outright stating that the offending punctuation was a hyphen, not merely a dash.And yet another pedant might point out that your conclusion ignores the possibility that the speaker meant to convey that they were, in fact, nothing. ;-P


I always assumed that O-chul was a highly honored member of the Azure guard, as the culture is pseudo-Asian and the 'o' is added (in Japanese at least) to indicate "the honorable." Cha is black tea, o-cha is green tea, "the honorable tea." Or at least is was so according to my college Japanese teacher. My teacher was Japanese, so if this is incorrect I'll put it down to my poor recollection rather than error on her part. With zero practice since college my vocabulary is just about down to saying "over there is a box."

[Shhalahr Windrider]

With zero practice since college my vocabulary is just about down to saying "over there is a box."
Wish I could remember that much in Spanish. :smalltongue:

[Temotei]

Dragons are scottish,so thats not how it works.

Sean Connery?

[derfenrirwolv]

Try reading this and tell me you don't wish for standardised spelling as we now have:

Like horseshoes, hand grenades, and nukes, HOW close you are matters. Some lines i didn't notice any errors, some lines i couldn't figure out what the word was (partially because its fallen out of usage)

The problem being that our language, or at least our spelling isn't standardized as far as rules go. the f sound in fish can be made with an f, gh (trough), S or C can make the sound in city, and K and C can make the hard K sound,. Then there's the vowels, e can sound like i as in women, and I can sound like a. Bow can be the thing you shoot arrows with, the thing girls tie in their hair without changing a sound, and can be what you do after doing a play by changing a sound. English spelling is, frankly, nuts and inconsistent. Its pretty much pure memorization or bust.

Ochul, o Chul, O'chul, O Chul... the name is easily and discernably O-Chul. I quite frankly don't use the- key often enough to be able to hit it without breaking stride, so i usually don't. My fingers have a hard enough time keeping up with the voice in my head comming out with ideas without having to stop and look for a meaningless keystroke.

[Eloel]

Ochul, o Chul, O'chul, O Chul... the name is easily and discernably O-Chul.

O'Chul, I don't have a problem with myself - it doesn't stop my reading the slightest bit, nor does it give me ambiguities. But capitalization, now THAT is important. When I see - o Chul or Ochul -, I simply go into the 'WTF' mode, since I have to stop to understand it, it doesn't come across as a name till I think about it. And frankly, as you guys said, this is a forum, I don't want to spend any effort in 'reading' things, especially if you're not putting half that effort into typing character names.

[Ancalagon]

I don't want to spend any effort in 'reading' things, especially if you're not putting half that effort into typing character names.

I also don't want to do that and I use a simple workaround: if something looks too ugly (no capitalisation, no paragraphs, an utter mess of spelling-errors) I simply don't read it.

So, (mostly) correct spelling, grammar, etc is something *YOU* (some writer) want to have so other people actually read what you wrote. Unless, of course, you type for the sake of typing and not to communicate something...

[SensFan]

There are always going to be people who get upset over spelling and punctuation, but personally I don't see the big deal. The purpose of language is to convey ideas. As long as people are able to do this, I don't care about a few typos.
Unless you have discovered a way to read minds of people through the internet, however, you have no way of being able to know what ideas they are trying to convey if correct spelling and punctuation aren't used.

:mitd: "Is it time to eat, Redcloak?"
versus
:mitd: "Is it time to eat Redcloak?"

[derfenrirwolv]

Unless you have discovered a way to read minds of people through the internet, however, you have no way of being able to know what ideas they are trying to convey if correct spelling and punctuation aren't used.

Without context grammer doesn't help you. Take a bow could mean "pick up that thing for shooting arrows" " go bow in front of the crowd" or "here, put one of these pretty knoted ribbons in your hair". Likewise, you can discern quite easily that i meant grammar in the first sentence. Context is more important than grammer as wo whether the monster is looking to snack or looking to snack on redcloak.

I once saw a sign in a zoo that read

Gorillias spend up to 18 hours a day eating Zookeepers have a hard time keeping up with their food requirements.

Now obviously the . had rubbed off and you can get a chuckle out of the statement and then figure out the meaning.

[Spiky]

There's a difference between being familiar and being anally accurate. And if no one cares about my forum post because I didn't add the right punctuation mark in the middle of a person's name, then that's their problem, not mine. I'm not going to sit around wringing my hands as if I'm some idiot or made a massive error by not using a hyphen.
But....you should. It really is that important to anyone who knows how to use "pedant" in a sentence in normal conversation.


Its an internet forum. I have a life outside of it.
While actually typing on the forum? You must not focus on that life very well.

I will give you some points for using "their" appropriately. :smallbiggrin:

[daelrog]

I'll admit that my spelling while typing is abysmal. That's why I always go back and read my posts back once it's posted, and edit it if there are mistakes.

For the argument about how much we should care about our grammar, it is really up to individual DMs. I occasionally go back on papers, posts, etc where I made a mispelling, and I feel slightly embarassed, but I agree with ThePhantasm to the point where one shouldn't overreact to a mistake here of there. One should care about their grammar, but those who get overtly angry over it will find themselves in the minority.

As to the original post and the thread topic, the apostrophe is seen more often as part of a name as opposed to a hyphen. At least that's the best guess I can muster.

Not to aim at anyone in particular, but I find personal attacks distasteful and counter-productive to one's argument. I suggest some post editing before this becomes personal and strays off topic.

[derfenrirwolv]

But....you should. It really is that important to anyone who knows how to use "pedant" in a sentence in normal conversation.

not everyone with a large vocabulary is a good speller.

[Thanatos 51-50]

A pedant would say you mean hyphen.

I, however, am nothing if not hypocritical and will simply heavily imply it.

It's called a 'tack'. So says the Navy. And you won't be able to tell me different! My RDCs wouldn't lead me astray!

[Harr]

But....you should.

Uh... no... he absolutely should not.


It really is that important to anyone who knows how to use "pedant" in a sentence in normal conversation.


Yeah, the thing with that is... that nobody cares. Sorry to be the one to break it to ya :smallwink:

As a former sufferer, I can tell you that OCPD is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with with the help of the right people, not glorified as a self-defense mechanism.

[ThePhantasm]

But....you should. It really is that important to anyone who knows how to use "pedant" in a sentence in normal conversation.


While actually typing on the forum? You must not focus on that life very well.

I will give you some points for using "their" appropriately. :smallbiggrin:

Oh my goodness. How many times to I have to explain this. It is about priorities. Do people not understand the concept of the Golden Mean? Why is it when I say something on this forum people take it to one extreme or the other? Read my posts in this thread. There is no point in my reposting them.

[RedCloakLives!]

Why do people keep writing "O'Chul"?

Because his first name is Peter!