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martyrX
2010-01-20, 04:30 PM
Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I am currently running a high level (eventually epic) 3.5 campaign. It is a home brew campaign with the typical polytheistic setup. As far as the PCs are concerned, there are 7 gods of 'good' and 3 gods of 'neutral'. The 7 ancient 'evil' gods were vanquished long ago (1000s of years ago) and not much is known about them. That is all changing as these 7 ancients are now rising from their slumber, threatening the world with change (for the worse). Undead, once thought as only myth, are now a horrible reality. Terrible wars are breaking out between former allies. The gods of 'good' seem less and less helpful. Trees are rotting. and so on. (game mechanic wise: the world is slowly merging with an evil realm much like Ravenloft).

It has become the PCs desire to put a stop to this evil. Depending on what they decide to do, I have a few options ready:

1) They face the 'evil' gods toe to toe, in hell. This would most probably end badly...for the PCs.

2) They decide to move to another world free of evil gods, taking the people of earth with them. This would be tough, but possible.

3) They discover the secret which will help them rid the world of the evil gods - that there is only ONE true god and the others are nothing in comparison.

They have unknowingly moving towards option 3 and i am here to pick all of your brains for ideas on how to deal with it! Here are some of the questions/ideas in my head about this:

1) Where is this one god? Why does he not help the PCs right now? I was thinking that he was 'hidden' or 'sleeping' like the evil gods. Somehow that doesn't seem convincing, since he is supposed to be the 'One'.

2) Two of the PCs are clerics. What will happen to them when they realise their gods suck? I think I will give them an option to convert to the One, and become more powerful because of it. Otherwise, they eventually lose their powers.

3) How does the One allow the PCs to defeat the evil? Does he simply vanquish them eternally (little too much Deus ex Machina for my taste)? Does he grant the PCs special powers for a time?

4) Perhaps the One is actually the only god, and the others are just pretenders. In that case, what are the 'gods'? Epic NPC's who can somehow grant spells?

Now I challenge you, fellow roleplayers! Give me your feedback and your sweet, sweet tasting ideas!

thanks!

martyrX

PersonMan
2010-01-20, 04:42 PM
1) Where is this one god? Why does he not help the PCs right now? I was thinking that he was 'hidden' or 'sleeping' like the evil gods. Somehow that doesn't seem convincing, since he is supposed to be the 'One'.

2) Two of the PCs are clerics. What will happen to them when they realise their gods suck? I think I will give them an option to convert to the One, and become more powerful because of it. Otherwise, they eventually lose their powers.

3) How does the One allow the PCs to defeat the evil? Does he simply vanquish them eternally (little too much Deus ex Machina for my taste)? Does he grant the PCs special powers for a time?

4) Perhaps the One is actually the only god, and the others are just pretenders. In that case, what are the 'gods'? Epic NPC's who can somehow grant spells?

1&4) The "One God" has been trapped by the false gods, and they are somehow feeding off of its divine energies or whatever, and use that stolen energy to grant spells, etc.
3) Well, you could say that he has found some sort of "crack" in whatever prison he's in, and is sending some of his power through it to aid them.

Rixx
2010-01-20, 04:45 PM
The one true god is so far above the "minor" gods and the plights of the people of Earth that all this conflict is simply beneath his/her notice/concern. The PCs will have to think of a way to gain this true god's attention.

Tyrmatt
2010-01-20, 05:08 PM
If you take the power siphon idea , your players will be forced to convert to the One anyway as the cleric's "Gods" will not allow them to use their divine powers to basically destroy or remove their power source from their control.
This of course goes for good gods too. They don't like being stolen from any more than evil gods and their moralities may change if they feel threatened by the One.

My proposal is therefore:- The One True God (largely neutral overdeity) has been chained beneath the Earth by the "Good" gods. His seven servants (standard deities) were chained with him in some locations around the world (Mmm, Zelda-y) and have had complicated mystical wards set up to prevent them from leaving by their own powers. All attempts they make to escape just fuel the "Good" gods powers. The PCs must set out to rescue the servants of the OTG from the locations, with the aid of the Scions of the One True God, a cult who have managed to siphon a tiny amount of the OTG's power, pure and true, allowing them to use divine abilities not sanctioned by the other Gods.

Since 7 seperate dungeons might be a bit tedious, have the PCs divide up the six dungeons with the Scions, the party taking two and the Scions taking four others. Locations tied thematically to the seven servants (Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Light, Dark are typical, but the Seven Heavenly Virtues could be used to great effect here) guarded by appropriate enemies, such as the fire servant is guarded by watery creatures and so on. Once the PCs defeat the first guardians, have the "Good" gods revoke the players' divine powers and require them to travel to a holy shrine in order to swear fealty to the OTG, perhaps aided by the Avatar of Whatever Aspect they freed.

Once that's done, knock off the second temple and then have the Scions frantically contact them. The Seventh Aspect has been found. In order to escape the imprisonment, the other six combined all their powers to turn their compatriot, the embodiment of "Life", into a mortal soul. And that soul is about to either be born or reach the age where it can access the divine powers attached to it. The PCs must now race to save the person before the "Good" gods can corrupt it's power for their own ends to finally seal away the OTG forever.
After saving the person, the players can take them to the Scions who will perform a ritual to use the power of the Seventh Servant to unlock the prison, unleashing the Eighth Virtue and OTG: Justice. However, the "Good" gods show up as their mightiest mortal avatars to stop the ritual, leading to an excellent epic clash at the end.

JonestheSpy
2010-01-20, 05:08 PM
How about this: all the gods are pieces of the one true god. Being ALL, said deity contained potential for both evil and good. Somehow said deity was split up into multiple aspects, each representing part of its nature - either through some cosmic accident or by choice, so as to develop each individual part. For some reason being separated allowed the evil part/gods to grow stronger after it/they were defeated and exiled, sort of how trying to suppress part of oneself might hide it but also make it grow.

The players have to figure out how to bring about the reunification of all the gods back into one, which will be ultimately enlightened after its time of broken-ness and therefore benevolent, though probably much less likely to get involved as directly with creation as its separate parts did.

Some good and neutral gods might oppose this once they realize what's happening, while others would help as they realize that the loss of their individuality would be necessary for the greater good.

Watch Dark Crystal for ideas...

Satyr
2010-01-20, 05:36 PM
The One is asleep and dreams. All the other gods are his dreams and efectively nothing but different incarnations of the One, each represenitng one paricular dream. As his "good" incarnations killed his evil incarnations, the One effectively crippled himself. Now, the whole pendulum swings back and the Sleeper tries to wake up - which would be the end of all dreams and effectively the Great Cataclysm.
The slow destruction of the world is not the result of the evil gods but of the slow awakening of the One. if the One truly and fully awakens, the world would be forgotten. The Evil Gods know this, but they suffer and the combination of a painful existence in hell and a high degree of self-loathing has lead them to the decision that no existence wold be preferable to their eternal suffering. Good gods have something like a conscience (they are good after all) and are therefore guilt-ridden. They know that their victory against their evil counterparts was foolish and they actually feel pity for their enemies (Hell is a terrible place to be, obviously). Yes, this limits their effectiveness greatly.

The end of the campaign could be either something like "The sleeper awakens, rock falls..." (yes, wiping out the whole creation can be a very satisfying end of a campaign and it is pretty much the ultimate end. That would be a move that would make the campaign unforgettable) or the players can find a way to reestablish the balance - by convincing the good gods to replace the evil ones in Hell and leaving them the reign about the earth for the same time they were trapped in Hell. But actually, I would leave both options open to the players and let them choose the form of Apocalypse.

Storm Bringer
2010-01-20, 05:39 PM
Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster.....

.....
1) Where is this one god? Why does he not help the PCs right now? I was thinking that he was 'hidden' or 'sleeping' like the evil gods. Somehow that doesn't seem convincing, since he is supposed to be the 'One'.

his physical form sleeps on the Astral Plane, adrift on the Infinate tides of that place. His Mind is shattered, the shards tied to series of items, many of which are the most holy artifacts of the new churches (ie the Sword of the God of Justice, the Staff of the God of Magic, etc).

the players aquire one of these artifacts, and form it learn the truth about history and how the past really went (as opposed to how they have been taught it went) they then begin a fetch quest to reunite the pieces and free the One True God


2) Two of the PCs are clerics. What will happen to them when they realise their gods suck? I think I will give them an option to convert to the One, and become more powerful because of it. Otherwise, they eventually lose their powers.

They may loose thier power for a while, but when shown the truth, they quickly realise that the granting of power though prayers is a crux, a construct built by the New Gods to tie thier worshippers to them. All devine power is drawn though belief in the fundermental ideals the Gods claim to represent. anyone strong enough in thier belief can cast spells without reference to a god (mechanically, they change form worshipping a god to belief whatever values thier domains indicate). The One True God


3) How does the One allow the PCs to defeat the evil? Does he simply vanquish them eternally (little too much Deus ex Machina for my taste)? Does he grant the PCs special powers for a time?

in his full power, the One is greater than either the Good or the Evil gods combines, but not both at once. the players need to free the One and then convice/coerce enough of the New Gods t help the One god, maybe in return for continued devine existance as 'angels' or other powerful beings in the new monothestic reglion.




4) Perhaps the One is actually the only god, and the others are just pretenders. In that case, what are the 'gods'? Epic NPC's who can somehow grant spells?

Now I challenge you, fellow roleplayers! Give me your feedback and your sweet, sweet tasting ideas!

thanks!

martyrX


the gods are ascended mortals, formlerly the greatest deciples of The One. the evil ones talked the rest into claiming a spark of devinity form the One, and binding it to the artifacts that now hold them. Thus, freeing the essance inside would reduce them to their former, mortal (though still epic) selves.

this also means that the players could, if they play thier cards right, ascend to godhood themselves.

Amphetryon
2010-01-20, 05:44 PM
How about this: all the gods are pieces of the one true god. Being ALL, said deity contained potential for both evil and good. Somehow said deity was split up into multiple aspects, each representing part of its nature - either through some cosmic accident or by choice, so as to develop each individual part. For some reason being separated allowed the evil part/gods to grow stronger after it/they were defeated and exiled, sort of how trying to suppress part of oneself might hide it but also make it grow.

The players have to figure out how to bring about the reunification of all the gods back into one, which will be ultimately enlightened after its time of broken-ness and therefore benevolent, though probably much less likely to get involved as directly with creation as its separate parts did.

Some good and neutral gods might oppose this once they realize what's happening, while others would help as they realize that the loss of their individuality would be necessary for the greater good.

Watch Dark Crystal for ideas...

This. I would personally make it so the Good gods worked toward reunification, the Evil gods opposed it, and the Neutral gods acted as their nature would dictate, ignoring alignment loyalties.

The Deej
2010-01-20, 05:55 PM
Why hasn't the one true god acted until now? He has, you just didn't know it because his machinations are so subtle/complex/focused on the general direction of events that you didn't notice it happening. Even the lesser "gods" are ultimately nothing more than his tools. He created them to disguise his presence.

Evil originated as flaws inevitably entering into his world (entropy is inevitable), so he created the evil gods to control its rate of growth and direction.

The PC's are unknowingly part of his plan to purge all flaws (evil) from his domain.

how's that sound?

Edit: as for the cleric problem, worshiping the lesser "gods" is effectively worshiping the One True God, essentially just a more specific aspect of him, so no powers would be lost.

imp_fireball
2010-01-20, 06:14 PM
The one true god is so far above the PCs and their plight or the minor gods that in fact... the one true god is YOU. The GM. That's right.

So mighty is he that he controls everything in the universe. He doesn't merely know the NPCs thoughts, he controls them! He weaved fate to place the PCs in their plight to begin with. But who knows, maybe he's benevolent enough to fix everything again.

The PCs learn this secret at the end.


Why hasn't the one true god acted until now? He has, you just didn't know it because his machinations are so subtle/complex/focused on the general direction of events that you didn't notice it happening.

The true god doesn't need to be a magnificent bastard. Leave that to mortals. He cannot be comprehended by mortal minds... nor players.


Edit: as for the cleric problem, worshiping the lesser "gods" is effectively worshiping the One True God, essentially just a more specific aspect of him, so no powers would be lost.

Each minor deity could also be a member of a lost and powerful extradimensional race that either made themselves out to be a deity (what makes a person a deity really? Power level over 9000?), or is a single branch of a larger personality that makes up the one true god.

Kislath
2010-01-20, 06:45 PM
I got it, piece of cake.

Okay, the established "gods" were, it turns out, merely an ancient party of adventurers who, long ago, managed to trap a real god inside some sort of effect which contained him, but them let them draw power from him, thereby making themselves into lesser gods, but good enough to lord over mortals.
HOWEVER, as everyone knows, gods get their power from their followers. The shared amount of power the false pantheon had was enough for the occasional parlor trick, but their true potency came from their followers.

Now the bad guys have been stirring up BIG trouble, and this has resulted in a massive crisis of faith worldwide. Without that faith, the power of the false gods to contain the real one has been fading. This of course results in a deathspiral effect as the more power they lose, the more power they can't get.

Anyway, eventually the true god escapes, and boy, is he mad.

The "evil gods" will no doubt get their butts kicked as much as the good ones, but maybe in a different way, since they were so instrumental in his release.

Now all you need is one cleric to whom the true god can send a message, and great power. he can be the prophet who guides the party to ... whatever it is you need them to do in order to let the true god finally break completely free and fix all this mess.

Godskook
2010-01-20, 06:51 PM
I haven't seen anyone mention the Narnia-style. God can't act directly because he's a God of his word and somehow, the rules he made prevent him from acting. Thus, the PCs act and go on quests that slow the enemy down(Peter and Edmund) or enable the 'One' to act(Lucy and Susan).


2) Two of the PCs are clerics. What will happen to them when they realise their gods suck? I think I will give them an option to convert to the One, and become more powerful because of it. Otherwise, they eventually lose their powers.

Wait, why do their gods suck?


4) Perhaps the One is actually the only god, and the others are just pretenders. In that case, what are the 'gods'? Epic NPC's who can somehow grant spells?

You're thinking too mono-theistic. Think something more along the lines of worshiping Thor before discovering Odin, or worshiping the Valar before learning of Iluvatar.

Drakevarg
2010-01-20, 06:57 PM
You're thinking too mono-theistic.

That's exactly the POINT.

The Deej
2010-01-20, 08:08 PM
You're thinking too mono-theistic.

thread title is:


DM in need of ideas for changing to a monotheistic campaign world.

you fail, sir.

Kislath
2010-01-21, 04:24 AM
Why the conversion to monotheism, anyway?

I always sorta figured that the reason clerics are granted powers in the first place is so that they can demonstrate the power of their gods to other mortals. In a world where there is no longer any competition between gods for worshippers, why would a god grant any spells to clerics anymore, especially when he would have to take care of the whole planet's worth of clerics.

Look at AO, the god of gods, the big cheese, the main man, Alpha and Omega. He never lifts a finger to do anything for anyone. I would think that one supreme god over an entire world would be similarly dis-inclined to bother with the whiny requests of the mortals.

Don't get me wrong; I think it's a cool idea. It's just one that might leave all your clerics in the lurch.

Omegonthesane
2010-01-21, 04:44 AM
I always sorta figured that the reason clerics are granted powers in the first place is so that they can demonstrate the power of their gods to other mortals. In a world where there is no longer any competition between gods for worshippers, why would a god grant any spells to clerics anymore, especially when he would have to take care of the whole planet's worth of clerics.
The reason clerics are granted powers is so that they can act in the mortal plane to further the agenda of their god. In a world where there is One True God, he will still have an agenda, and will still intervene to cause it. If he's stopped granting spells, it'll be because they are no longer needed to bring about his will.


Look at AO, the god of gods, the big cheese, the main man, Alpha and Omega. He never lifts a finger to do anything for anyone. I would think that one supreme god over an entire world would be similarly dis-inclined to bother with the whiny requests of the mortals.
I find the idea of a great power that doesn't use its power just because it's supreme to be lame. I would think that one supreme god over an entire world would very much appreciate being able to see the insects grow as a result of his intervention - or else laughing his head off at how he can blow up their greatest constructions and torture them in hilarious ways.

Also, you're forgetting the possibility of a One True God who isn't actually almighty, and can be opposed by the false gods without them needing his power. You need less power to seriously inconvenience something than to actually stand a chance of defeating it.

ZeroNumerous
2010-01-21, 04:48 AM
Also, you're forgetting the possibility of a One True God who isn't actually almighty, and can be opposed by the false gods without them needing his power. You need less power to seriously inconvenience something than to actually stand a chance of defeating it.

More importantly, however, you're forgetting that a god is not a human. Gods lacks human-based emotions and responses because they are outsiders. Unless a monotheistic deity is a deified mortal then Kislath is right in that there is no reason for the deity to grant spells or perform miracles. He gains nothing from worship as there are no other competitors. He simply is, and would probably be more concerned with his own alien designs than with mortals and their pitiful problems.

JaronK
2010-01-21, 05:05 AM
Is the idea here for an omnimax deity such as the Judeo-Christian god (I don't want to get into real religion here, just looking for a comparison) or just a more powerful overdeity that simply trumps the other guys? If it's the first case, you're sort of screwed... such a deity knows all, plans all, controls all, and the players are mere pawns. That's not really fun. The second option is far more reasonable... a more powerful being that simply isn't strong enough to free himself.

Heck, it could be something like Cthulhu, a giant sleeping eldritch horror from before the creation of the current pantheon. Perhaps the lesser gods are in fact true gods of this world, but they built their creation on top of an older creation, not realizing what they built on. Now the great creature is waking up, sensing stirring life around it, and the gods need this thing put back to sleep. However, the gods themselves might have woken it... perhaps their direct power was too much energy and when they defeated the evil gods they began his wakefulness. Now they can't act further except subtly, for fear of awaking him completely, but need someone who can slip in under the radar and find a way to get the darn thing back to sleep.

JaronK

Ra-Thoth
2010-01-21, 06:57 AM
I've only recently (for university) read the epic by John Milton "Paradise Lost". It holds quite a good characterisation of the Christian God, Satan, and others.

Although Satan, Michael and all the other angels are vastly superiour to men, that one God is just - overpowered, imba, you name it. Of course, the depicted God could do anything he wanted - but he rather lets his "minions" make their own decision. He grieves when they fail, he does not partake in any actions, but he sends them aid in the form of advice from his minions. When the angels fight each other (good angels vs. Satan's angels), God just watches how it turns out. The moment that the tide turns and Satan shows up with a lot of devillish machinery, he sends his son in and ends the battle. This god, then, is very interested in the events that happen everywhere, but does only step in to assure the continuing existence of his world.

Ultimately, it all comes down to the individual (the player characters), making decisions and being responsible for him or herself. And that god's "win-situation" would be to have accomplished all of this just by gently steering them (or not steering them at all). That would show all the evil forces in the world, that good CAN prevail without force.

Ra

PS: I am not religiously involved in anything, I'm just referring a classic. ;-)

Devils_Advocate
2010-01-21, 08:06 AM
In order for the Overdeity to NOT immediately fix all of the problems -- and for there to be any problems, really -- It probably needs motivations more complex than "Be nice to the poor mortals". What might Its motivations be?


Two of the PCs are clerics. What will happen to them when they realise their gods suck?
Do you absolutely have to make their gods suck? Like, permanently? Might they perhaps instead be given some opportunity to allow their gods to once again not suck?

Because a typical cleric's natural response to her god's decline is going to be to try to help, you know, fix that.


Perhaps the One is actually the only god, and the others are just pretenders. In that case, what are the 'gods'? Epic NPC's who can somehow grant spells?
That's basically the definition of "god" in D&D. Tell a typical character in the setting that the "so-called gods" are really only beings of finite, limited, though immense power, and he'll react roughly as you would if I proclaimed to you that water evaporates. The natural response is to wonder why someone is pointing out something so obvious.

If the gods have a god of their own, as high above them as they are above mortals, even that doesn't make them any less gods. Sorta like how your boss can have a boss of his own, but that doesn't make him any less your boss, and he still tells you what to do and can fire you or give you a raise and so on.


I find the idea of a great power that doesn't use its power just because it's supreme to be lame.
A being of sufficient power and wisdom never needs to intervene because It already set things up so that they'll stay the way that It wants them to be forever. You don't do anything as a means to an end when you could and therefore already did produce the end directly. A being with slightly less power and wisdom than that still probably only has cause to intervene very rarely. And so on.


I would think that one supreme god over an entire world would very much appreciate being able to see the insects grow as a result of his intervention - or else laughing his head off at how he can blow up their greatest constructions and torture them in hilarious ways.
I generally don't mess around with the spiders in my apartment. And while they can be sort of interesting to watch once in a while, I usually have other things that I'd rather be doing.

An Overdeity could create a world as a hobby and then stop paying attention to it because nothing all that interesting was happening from Its perspective. Maybe that's what happened here?

Cyrion
2010-01-21, 10:52 AM
How about a variation of a common trope- The OTG created the other gods and the divine world as an exercise in creation and exploration of morality. Then She left them alone to see what they would create, expecting them to be high minded, work in an enlightened context, etc. While Her attention was on other things, the lesser gods created the mortal realm for much the same reason and with much the same expectation. However, They bickered in the creation, weren't as adept as the OTG, and ended up making something unbalanced and flawed.

The campaign shifts when Mom comes home... She sees what the lesser gods have done, needs to clean up the mess, and plans to send the Kids to their rooms without supper. However, She notices that the mortal realm is precious precisely because it is so dynamic and alive, and the mess and chaos has its own aesthetic; precisely because the mortals are short-lived and powerless (on a divine scale) but try so hard, there's something fascinating and different about it. Rather than wiping the slate clean, She decides to keep and watch over the mortal realm and see what it does (maybe with just a few changes...). Thus, she steps in to fill some of the roles of the other gods- continuing to grant cleric spells particularly.

martyrX
2010-01-21, 11:25 AM
Wow! So many interesting responses in less that a day! I am truly grateful for such a resource of ideas. Thank you all.

Why monotheism? A few reasons. First, it is definitely something the PCs will not expect. Second, if there is going to be a divine shakeup, I would like to have it end definitively. Third, it will be fun...I am sure the PCs will enjoy the new world with a single deity and all the new ideas/rules/challenges that brings with it.

The idea if the One being trapped is a good one, though it might make the PCs doubt the One's all-powerfulness (or mostly-powerfulness).

I really like the idea of the One actually being split into all the lesser gods and THAT being the reason he has no power at the moment. Somehow, the PCs will be required to merge all the gods into the One, thereby defeating the evil whilst destroying the good gods as well. In a way, a cleric choosing to destroy his own god is the 'ultimate sacrifice'. This also fits in well with my campaign world, as the 'humanoid' races of the world (elves, men, gnomes, etc.) were once greater beings, split into many by the gods.

Interesting that someone should mention Paradise Lost, as one idea I have prepared for is the PCs descending into hell itself. There are 7 circles of hell, each the 'home' of an evil deity. Perhaps the only way to destroy an evil deity is sacrifice the good deity which opposes the evil one (e.g. sacrifice the goddess of healing to destroy the god of suffering). Any ideas on how they might accomplish this?

On the nature of the One: i'm not very religious either, but i think that the judeo-christian model is the way to go here. It may end the campaign when he is finally 'put together', but it would make for a spectacular ending. Otherwise, it will make for a very interesting new world. I am not worried about the 'does he know/control everything' problem. No matter what, I am a DM that allows his PCs to do whatever they desire.

On the motivations of the One: this, of course, is the crux of the matter. If I go with the 'he is split' idea, his first order of business is to be put back together. Problem is, being split is the reason he has no power. Perhaps he did this to himself (either purposely, or not)?

On the gods 'sucking': I only meant in comparison to the One. I imagine that once the PCs get a taste of the power they receive through the One, there will be no going back. I wonder what might sway them...cheaper metamagic? Extra spells? Seems like I need something really great here.


More campaign info, for those who are interested:

The PCs are slowly becoming overwhelmed by evil. The challenges they face seem insurmountable. Here are two examples of their plight:

1) The PCs have recently discovered a cult (surprise!) of the god of suffering. This cult preys on the downtrodden (eg slaves) and promises that one day the meek will rise against their masters. The PCs have witnessed a ritual whereby slaves drink blood and gain powers. Unfortunately for the slaves, their powers are often short lived as this blood ritual ALSO allows a demon to 'break through' the slave and into the world. The PCs have been able to handle this so far, but they are about to discover that this problem exists in 10s of thousands of slaves, all over the world.

2) An ARTIFACT sword has been found which the PCs believe contains one of the evil deities. It is an intelligent weapon which can control not only those who wield it, but those who are only near it as well. Its main effect is that those who are killed by it rise as undead equal in power to the slain (e.g. high level sorcerer becomes a lich). The PCs are afraid to go near it, lest they become overpowered by it. They are also afraid to try to destroy it, as they fear this will release the evil god they believe is trapped inside it. Spells prove ineffective against it (i.e. no forcecage). It seems that it is only a matter of time before the sword builds an undead army.

The PCs want to deal with each of these issues, but they are torn. They feel that although they are saving lives by trying to fight the cult, they are ignoring the root of the problem (the evil deities' return).

To add to all of this, one of the PCs has come from the horrible reality that is the future. The future is hell on earth (very much like Ravenloft, for those who know it). The PC does not know what power sent him back in time, of course the One did (will??).

Please note that I have a great group of mature players who have been playing together for about 20 years. These guys can handle any sort of plot twist, even if it might mean one of them has to sacrifice his character. If you are curious, the group is: 1 cleric/inquisitor, 1 cleric/fighter, 1 archmage/sorcerer and 1 forsaker. The forsaker had a difficult time at first, what with all the teleporting (which he refused to do). That has since been alleviated as the forsaker was killed by the artifact sword...only to rise again in spirit form. Somehow the forsaker's antimagic powers allowed him to maintain his alignment, even though he is undead. In game terms, he is pretty much the same, except that he can now fly, is incorporeal and somehow finds himself 'attached' to the cleric/fighter (i.e. when the cleric/fighter teleports, the forsaker appears as well).

ps Someone mentioned the Dark Crystal...which is actually my FAVOURITE movie. Can you tell :) ?

pps More on the Dark Crystal...for those of you who have tried lining up Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon' with 'The Wizard of Oz', try the same with the Dark Crystal. It works so well for the first 15 minutes it is like it was meant to be. Try it. You won't be disappointed. (To do this, begin Floyd just as the Universal logo is fading out)

Another_Poet
2010-01-21, 11:37 AM
Awesome!


1) Where is this one god? Why does he not help the PCs right now?

Possibilities:

a) Godhead - all other gods are aspects of this one god. Previously He acted through the 7 good and 3 neutral deities as His personae or avatars. As the evil "gods" (=demons) are now growing stronger than the avatars, it may be time to cast off these faces and appear in His full glory.

b) Deism. The Almighty God created the worlds, set them in order and resigned to allow his creations free will. The mightiest of his creations - the 17 beings now known as gods - were intended to act as stewards and shepherds of his creation and its inhabitants. Since they have failed and/or fallen to bickering and temptation, He is doing what any good parent would do: fire the irresponsible babysitter and watch the kids personally.

c) Saturn. The 17 gods, or perhaps just the 7 evil "gods" defeated the Almighty God long ago because they wanted to take his power. The good gods have long wanted to revive (or free) him, but they needed a majority of the gods to have enough power to do so. Only the recent successes of the evil "gods" have convinced the neutral deities to agree to this. (This is a nice hook as the PCs could perhaps be instrumental in convincing one of the neutral deities to agree to the plan, and thus shift the balance of power.) Now the good and neutral gods can revive the Almighty God but the Almighty's first act may be one of punishment for their dethroning Him in the first place.



2) Two of the PCs are clerics. What will happen to them when they realise their gods suck? I think I will give them an option to convert to the One, and become more powerful because of it. Otherwise, they eventually lose their powers.

Do their gods have to "suck"? There were Greek priests of Hermes even though Zeus, Poseidon and Hades are the rulers of the gods. There are Shivaites in India who acknowledge that Krishna, not Shiva, is the heighest form of the godhead. There are orders of monks devoted to particular saints or the Virgin Mary even though they believe that there is only one God.

My point is that you can have a ruler god or Almighty being without pooping on the true, awesome divine power of the other deities, saints, or what-have-you. Unless you talk to the cleric players and find out they are interested in upgrading to the Almighty, it's pretty harsh to nerf/remove their chosen deities. Even if they convert, domains and favoured weapons might change, and choices of feats/skills/flavor text may no longer feel fitting. Assuming they are clerics of the good or neutral gods, let them play out their recognition of a higher power in their own way. They'll come up with their own justification for continuing to adhere to a secondary deity while acknowledging the greater power of the Almighty.



3) How does the One allow the PCs to defeat the evil? Does he simply vanquish them eternally (little too much Deus ex Machina for my taste)? Does he grant the PCs special powers for a time?

I would start with seeing whether they even want his help. If he reveals himself and they shake their heads and go back to their own gods, then perhaps he only acts in the background.

If they do want his help, perhaps he must test them first. He wants them to prove their loyalty and dedication before helping them.

Upon their passing the test, he could either give them awesome powers/toys or (this is my favourite):

"It is not my place to make or unmake gods. But know this: if the pantheon of your world is depleted, new gods must arise to take the empty places. Slay the gods who have turned treacherous, and you yourselves will rule in their stead for all time. For now, I invest you as Princes of Heaven."

The point being they get to be demigods for free (gain divine power) with the promise of becoming true gods if they defeat the evil "gods".


4) Perhaps the One is actually the only god, and the others are just pretenders. In that case, what are the 'gods'?

Faces of the One of course. Humans have a hard time contemplating the eternal, boundless and almighty. But a person can look at a waterfall in a secluded glen and feel spiritual. BAM! Nature god. They can watch the sun rise and feel it warm their faces and experience an uplifting. BAM! Sun god. They can triumph over the wicked and see the gratitude on the faces of the oppressed. BAM! Hero/war god. Et cetera. The infinite divine finds ways to appear to the minds of mortals, in forms they can actually understand and touch, and accepts the decorations and myths they pin on those forms because it helps them to become spiritual.

Good luck!
ap

eepop
2010-01-21, 02:46 PM
The One is the original creator. So he is off doing what he loves doing: creating!

He created the world the PCs lived on, nursed it into prosperity and thought it was self-sufficient. He then moved on to create other worlds.

The PCs must travel through a variety of very bizarre worlds find the one that The One is currently working on.

Each world The One makes, he breaks some of the rules he has set for himself and makes up new ones. On one, everything might bounce just like a rubber ball. On another, life is silicon based. etc.

Once the PCs find him, they must explain the trouble that has befallen their world and try to convince him to come back. But he feels he is too busy with his current project, so he can only empower the players to go fix the problem.

Jayabalard
2010-01-21, 04:19 PM
How about this: all the gods are pieces of the one true god. Being ALL, said deity contained potential for both evil and good. Somehow said deity was split up into multiple aspects, each representing part of its nature - either through some cosmic accident or by choice, so as to develop each individual part

The One is asleep and dreams. All the other gods are his dreams and efectively nothing but different incarnations of the One, each represenitng one paricular dream. These 2 are the direction that I'd suggest going with.

On the dreamer idea: one direction you could go is having the players work toward finding a way to keep the world from going away as the sleeper awakens.

Thatguyoverther
2010-01-21, 05:04 PM
The one true god is so far above the "minor" gods and the plights of the people of Earth that all this conflict is simply beneath his/her notice/concern. The PCs will have to think of a way to gain this true god's attention.

I vote for this. I think that the Deity should be so powerful that even other gods are beneath it's notice. With ultimate power comes ultimate apathy.

The Overdiety could set everything right in an instant provided it bothered. The PCs will have to find a way to make it care. My ideas would be too orchestrate some event so spectacular that even the overdiety would notice like destroying the planet or killing several gods.

Alternatively, maybe the players should have to start converting people to worship the overdiety. The normally lethargic deity will only act once it has enough people pestering it with prayers, like all of the worshipers are spammers filling the gods inbox. Maybe getting sufficient people to bother the reclusive deity will get it to act, so that they'll stop.

Anonymouswizard
2010-01-21, 06:34 PM
The One is asleep and dreams. All the other gods are his dreams and efectively nothing but different incarnations of the One, each represenitng one paricular dream. As his "good" incarnations killed his evil incarnations, the One effectively crippled himself. Now, the whole pendulum swings back and the Sleeper tries to wake up - which would be the end of all dreams and effectively the Great Cataclysm.

In order to stop the cataclysm the PCs must find a way to destroy all the gods, but in the process severing the world from it's source of magic. Cut of from the other planes, the PCs must now find the last scraps of divinity in order to create a new cosmology and restore magic to the world. If they don't succeed some random NPC does.

The easiest way to kill all the gods would be to destroy the sleeper, but the sleepers defences are kept strong by the existence of the other, lower gods. The good goods may be willing to weaken the defences of the greater good, but otherwise the PCs are going to have to enter the realm of the OTG and find a way to destroy it or return it to sleep. To reach the sleeping body of the OTG they must face the most powerful avatars of the lesser gods, until eventually they find themselves in a large circular chamber. For the final show down they have to either deliver a large amount of potion (as in three or four barrels), or snuff out the OTGs life force. Whatever they do, they must face the most powerful foe ever, as the OTG is about to awake they must battle his weakened but still incredibly powerful spirit. If the spirit is killed the OTG dies, with all the planes except for the material plane and the OTGs realm as well as all outsiders and gods disappear. The PCs may absorb some of the OTGs divine energy, becoming quasi-deities.

The PCs now have until they are killed to collect enough of the shattered divine essence of the OTG to fully ascend and recreate the rest of creation. The campaign could end as the world has been shut of from the infinite supply of magic it enjoyed, and now has only a limited amount of power left.

CDR_Doom
2010-01-21, 07:30 PM
c) Saturn. The 17 gods, or perhaps just the 7 evil "gods" defeated the Almighty God long ago because they wanted to take his power. The good gods have long wanted to revive (or free) him, but they needed a majority of the gods to have enough power to do so. Only the recent successes of the evil "gods" have convinced the neutral deities to agree to this. (This is a nice hook as the PCs could perhaps be instrumental in convincing one of the neutral deities to agree to the plan, and thus shift the balance of power.) Now the good and neutral gods can revive the Almighty God but the Almighty's first act may be one of punishment for their dethroning Him in the first place.


What if you slightly subverted the Saturn story? Say the Overgod was a neutral deity of impartial balance. The lesser gods of good hatch a plan to rid the world of evil, but they know that their Overgod would never stand for such a blatant imbalance of morality, so their first action in the plan is to trap the Overgod the same way they eventually trapped the evil lesser gods. Now, once the PC's figure out the parts of history that were left out, they are in a race to figure out how to break the chains of the Overgod so that he can restore balance before the evil deities are freed enough to stop them and do irreparable harm to the world. Once the Overgod is freed of course, he/she'll want a total pantheon wipe so that he/she can take over managing the balance of the world directly.(or alternatively rewarding the PC's for their help by raising them to take the place of the old pantheon as heavenly middle management)