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Sploosh
2010-01-21, 02:05 AM
Hey there,

I might be playing a dragonborn tank (maybe a water orc, but I'd also love suggestions if you got 'em) that focuses around using the crusader and being as meaty and gruff as possible.

I've heard about going Cleric/crusader RKV, and I saw some Paladin/crusader/RKV and I think I saw a paladin/crusader/knight build out there somewhere.

I dont know what the others plan to play (I do know the DM rolls encounters randomly and they can be merciless unbeatable fights.

I couldnt really find a completed handbook for this and while I've played a lot of swordsages, I never really dabbled into crusader or warblade.

Any help on making a dragon slaying champion of Bahamut?

AslanCross
2010-01-21, 02:22 AM
Crusader/Knight is good for being a literal tank: You can slow down your enemies and literally force them to attack you instead of your party softies.

Cleric/Crusader/RKV is pretty cheesy, but awesome. Paladin also works, but the slow caster progression makes it slightly less optimal. Divine Grace is still awesome, though.

Sploosh
2010-01-21, 02:45 AM
Crusader/Knight is good for being a literal tank: You can slow down your enemies and literally force them to attack you instead of your party softies.

Cleric/Crusader/RKV is pretty cheesy, but awesome. Paladin also works, but the slow caster progression makes it slightly less optimal. Divine Grace is still awesome, though.

Besides the extra actions, how cheesey we talking here? I've played druid20 with them before.

Grumman
2010-01-21, 03:17 AM
I'm a fan of Crusader 5 / Hellreaver 5 / Binder 1 / Crusader +9, preferably on something that doesn't need to eat, drink or sleep.

AslanCross
2010-01-21, 06:55 AM
Besides the extra actions, how cheesey we talking here? I've played druid20 with them before.

Well, ok, not THAT cheesy. I think it's a pretty fun build since it has both casting and martial maneuvers. Pretty awesome and IMO quite flavorful.

Ernir
2010-01-21, 07:38 AM
Knight/Crusader... the biggest problem I see is one it shares with all multiclassed Knight builds, the Test of Mettle DC depends on your Knight level, which is going to be low. Better hunt down every DC-booster you can find, you'll need it.

If you want all of Knight, Paladin and Crusader, I'd suggest starting as a Knight 4/Paladin 2/, and finishing as a Crusader.

Besides the extra actions, how cheesey we talking here? I've played druid20 with them before.

Aside from extra actions?
Extra actions! :smalltongue:

Anyway... the RKV has (serious) optimization potential, but if you aren't using any tricks, I'd rate it a "meh". It is a PrC that loses CLs and costs either another CL loss or precious, precious feats to enter. If you're not going to (ab)use its action-busting abilities, I'd rather have a Cleric with no lost CLs.

Kaiyanwang
2010-01-21, 08:20 AM
Knight/Crusader... the biggest problem I see is one it shares with all multiclassed Knight builds, the Test of Mettle DC depends on your Knight level, which is going to be low. Better hunt down every DC-booster you can find, you'll need it.


This is a good point, but you could even ask to your party to give an help (say, caster with debuff spells, Hexblade with dark companion and so on).

Sploosh
2010-01-21, 09:29 AM
Knight isnt a must have and by "besides extra actions" I didnt mean to say they were anything if not the beautiful and bountiful fruit of awesomeness that will bend the action economy over my knee.

I just meant if I had to use the errata of double swift and not "I turn every spell into flamestrike" ect.. if they would be tier 2 esque.

I'm thinking of going into the RKV as pal4/crusader1 and the whole paladin spells swift action thing, does that sound about right?

Also, I am curious if the -2 char and wis from the current build is going to butcher the MAdness (this is sparta!) that already exists there and if so, what race would be best (hopefully something bulky--->dragonborn if doable.

Person_Man
2010-01-21, 11:02 AM
Obligatory link to Knight Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109429).

What level are you playing at? What books are allowed? What are your build goals?

Sploosh
2010-01-21, 11:38 AM
Starting level can be adjusted but willl likely be around 6 (maybe 8 if it'd be much better off that way), all books and I'm leaning towards either a tough melee soaker as opposed to the usual shocktrooper builds, or a gish with some divine bahamut love.