PDA

View Full Version : Tome of Battle: Is it pathfinder worthy?



Leeham
2010-01-21, 05:13 AM
Just a quick questio, do you guys think the classes and mechanics and what not match up to the level of power to the classes in the PF core rulebook? Or are they more powerful, bang on?

Zincorium
2010-01-21, 06:05 AM
Pathfinder didn't change enough to remove the niche that Tome of Battle realized was there, and they don't even make a pretense of filling it.

ToB classes do not do more damage than a well-built fighter or barbarian.

They have a heck of a lot more things that they can do, and fulfill many flavor-niches without any alterations or refluffing of specific abilities. Importantly, it blends with melee characters better than attempting to take spellcasting levels, as you gain partial manuever progression from whatever you've already taken.

Riffington
2010-01-21, 06:35 AM
A Pathfinder fighter can slightly outfight a warblade, but the warblade has a lot more tricks up his sleeve.

I'd leave the ToB classes as-is and let people play them if they want in a Pathfinder game.

Leeham
2010-01-21, 06:49 AM
Nice, thanks for the advice. Now I've just gotta try and get it cheap.

Person_Man
2010-01-21, 11:49 AM
A Pathfinder fighter can slightly outfight a warblade, but the warblade has a lot more tricks up his sleeve.

Wait, what? The Pathfinder Fighter Pathfinder Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/basic-classes/fighter) gets moderate bonuses to Will Saves vs Fear, To-Hit, Damage, AC, movement, and a few meh capstones. How is that in any way comparable to the awesomeness and versatility of things like Girillion Windmill Fleshrip?

IMO, Warblade is still > Fighter. Swordsage is still > Monk. I think they did a great job with the Paladin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/basic-classes/paladin) though, putting it on par with the Crusader (as it should be).

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-01-21, 12:15 PM
Wait, what? The Pathfinder Fighter Pathfinder Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/basic-classes/fighter) gets moderate bonuses to Will Saves vs Fear, To-Hit, Damage, AC, movement, and a few meh capstones. How is that in any way comparable to the awesomeness and versatility of things like Girillion Windmill Fleshrip?

IMO, Warblade is still > Fighter. Swordsage is still > Monk. I think they did a great job with the Paladin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/basic-classes/paladin) though, putting it on par with the Crusader (as it should be).

I'm faiirly sure by "outfight" he meant "can be optimized to be better in a particular area." It's been common knowledge for a while that vanilla fighter << vanilla warblade but that if the fighter specs for something like tripping, charging, highest attack bonus, etc. he's better at that one thing than a comparable warblade; given that Pathfinder basically added numbers to the fighter, that situation hasn't changed.

Boci
2010-01-21, 12:17 PM
Just replace all concentration checks with martial lore checks, subing con for int.

Riffington
2010-01-21, 12:34 PM
Wait, what? The Pathfinder Fighter Pathfinder Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/basic-classes/fighter) gets moderate bonuses to Will Saves vs Fear, To-Hit, Damage, AC, movement, and a few meh capstones. How is that in any way comparable to the awesomeness and versatility of things like Girillion Windmill Fleshrip?


It is neither as awesome nor as versatile. However, as Pair alludes to, the vanilla fighter can do more damage, win on repetitive trips, etc. The trade is clearly in the warblade's favor, given that awesome>onetrick. The Pathfinder fighter (by the time you're using Girillion Windmill) has an extra +8 to AC*, +3 to hit and damage, +3 to each trip attempt, some extra [HPorskill points], and a skill system that makes his skill list less useless. That fighter will beat up the warblade in a straight fight. The warblade still wins on awesomeness.

*given certain assumptions

Serenity
2010-01-21, 12:35 PM
Just replace all concentration checks with martial lore checks, subing con for int.

Perception strikes me as a much better sub for concentration for the purposes of Diamond Mind Maneuvers.