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View Full Version : What level should they be to fight this? [3.5]



Dyllan
2010-01-21, 01:49 PM
Alright, my party (running the 4th campaign in this world) is going to be hired to recover three artifacts. Well, technically they're three parts of the same artifact. What they don't know, is this is the artifact that their PCs from the first campaign in this world (nearly 1000 years ago, game time) were entrusted to protect. Those PCs were also granted immortality, in that they won't grow old and die. They can still be killed.

They each took a piece of the artifact to a different plane and took new names, hiding away in anonymity to protect the artifact for all eternity. Now my new party is going to hunt them down and retrieve those artifacts, so they can be used to fix damage caused to the fabric of their home plane (that's what they're being TOLD it's for, anyway).

I'd rather not go epic, because 3.5 epic rules are horrible. So each of the three ex-PCs will be level 20. And as these characters were retired quite a few years ago, I am going to have to rebuild them. The first is a weapon finesse monk fighting with unarmed strikes. Her shortened stat block follows (I added the effects of her equipment into her stat block for ease of use):


Human Monk 20 - Outsider (no longer humanoid)
Str - 14
Dex - 30
Con - 18
Int - 18
Wis - 22
Cha - 16
Initiative: +14
BAB: +15/+15/+15/+10/+5
Speed: 90
HP 233
AC 36, Touch 31, Flat 26
Saves: Fort: +22, Ref: +26, Will: +24, +2 vs Enchantment
Attack: Unarmed Strike +29/+29/+29/+24/+19 (2d10+5 + 1d4 force 19-20/x2) - Stunning Fist (Fort DC 28), Quivering Palm (Fort DC 26)
Skills: Tumble +33, Hide +33, Move Silently +33, Listen +31, Spot +36, Escape Artist +33
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike, Flurry of Blows, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Improved Critical: Unarmed Strike, Dodge, Improved Natural Attack: Unarmed Strike, Blind-Fight, Ability Focus: Stunning Fist

Wholeness of Body: Heal self 40 HP/day
Abundant Step: Dimensional Door, caster level 10 (800 feet), once per day
Diamond Soul: SR 30
Stunning Fist: On hit Fort DC 28 or stunned for one round - 20/day
Quivering Palm: On hit Monk can cause target to make a Fort Save DC 26 or die, calling for save can be delayed up to 20 days - 1/week
Tongue of the Sun and Moon: can speak to any living creature
Empty Body: Ethereal 1 round at a time, up to 20 times a day (per Etherealness spell).
DR 10/Magic
Darkvision


The party will be facing her on a mountainside, with no one else around. The locals have learned to stay away from the mountain, as anyone who goes up there ends up knocked out and dragged to the bottom of the mountain by what they call the "Mountain Spirit." Basically, she's taken to protecting her home from intrusion by anyone. Not too hard, as it's somewhat remote. So, how high of a level does my party need to be before I send them after her?

Party makeup: Half-Orc Barbarian, Human Cleric, Human Rogue, Elf Sorcerer. We're only using core material (DMG and PHB) for PCs, except when I occasionally hand out the stray non-core magic item.

ed: Fixed stunning fist and Quivering Palm DCs

The Glyphstone
2010-01-21, 01:52 PM
In b4 'lvl 1, monk sux'.


It'll really depend on the party's tactics...if the sorcerer likes to buff, and has, say, Fly in his repetoire, then the monk is pretty much screwed. If he's a blaster who likes SR-yes spells and never took Spell Penetration, then it'll be a lot harder for him to contribute. Is the cleric a battle-cleric or a healbot? Does the rogue understand the joys of UMD?

tyckspoon
2010-01-21, 01:54 PM
I'd say 15 to 17, largely depending on your spellcasters' optimization chops. Certainly doable by 17; level 9 spells will just brute-force it, and the Barbarian and Rogue should have achieved enough attack bonus to fairly reliably hit by that point. 15 (or lower, but I think about 15 would be where a well built Barbarian could be expected to actually contribute instead of watching the Cleric and Sorc do it all) if the party is generally well-built and made effective use of their wealth.

Eldariel
2010-01-21, 01:55 PM
They should be able to defeat her quite safely around level 13-14 provided we're talking casters using their whole repertoire in basic buffing and offensive manner. I'd say she's about CR 17 by MM standards (where Tarrasque is CR 20) assuming she has some means of flight (e.g. Wings of Flying). Her AC and saves are quite high for that level, but not unbeatable and her offense is unimpressive so she should make for a good boss fight.

Raging Barbarian should be able to get over +26 with relative ease (13 BAB, +11 (20+3+4+6) Rage Str, +3 weapon, Heroism, Haste = +30), Rogue with Invisibility gets her flat-footed and thus should hit, DC 23 Fort-save is doable for the martial types (Cleric, Barbarian) quite easily and Sorcerer and Rogue should have the means to avoid her attacks.

Ranos
2010-01-21, 01:56 PM
Should be doable by level 5 or so, if they have decent enough tactics. The barbarian and the rogue are irrelevant, this fight is all up to the casters.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-01-21, 02:02 PM
Should be doable by level 5 or so, if they have decent enough tactics. The barbarian and the rogue are irrelevant, this fight is all up to the casters.

Please explain how they could defeat the monk at level 5.

FishAreWet
2010-01-21, 02:05 PM
Please explain how they could defeat the monk at level 5.

He can't fly.

tyckspoon
2010-01-21, 02:05 PM
Please explain how they could defeat the monk at level 5.

Same way every other non-flying opponent is beaten. Get in the air, pull out your +1 crossbow, and wait until you roll enough 20s.

Dyllan
2010-01-21, 02:06 PM
It'll really depend on the party's tactics...if the sorcerer likes to buff, and has, say, Fly in his repetoire, then the monk is pretty much screwed.

Not so sure about fly screwing the monk. She has every reason to run, and I'm sure there will be a cave she can run into. Once the ceiling is low enough, fly isn't much help. Actually, there will definitely be such a cave (I am the DM after all).


If he's a blaster who likes SR-yes spells and never took Spell Penetration, then it'll be a lot harder for him to contribute. Is the cleric a battle-cleric or a healbot? Does the rogue understand the joys of UMD?

Sorcerer is part blaster part buffer... but he does have both spell penetration and greater spell penetration. Still, with the saves, touch AC and SR, he's gonna have a hard time hurting her.

Cleric is also a cross... she isn't the uber-battle cleric I see built here, but she is decently competent, with a good strength and weapon proficiency in the bastard sword. Spends half her time as heal bot and half her time as tank.

And to my dismay, the rogue still won't touch UMD. I don't know how many times I've tried to show him how good it can be... but if he can manage to hit, there's still sneak attack I suppose...


I'd say 15 to 17, largely depending on your spellcasters' optimization chops. Certainly doable by 17; level 9 spells will just brute-force it, and the Barbarian and Rogue should have achieved enough attack bonus to fairly reliably hit by that point. 15 (or lower, but I think about 15 would be where a well built Barbarian could be expected to actually contribute instead of watching the Cleric and Sorc do it all) if the party is generally well-built and made effective use of their wealth.

I'm really hoping lower than 17. After this they have to face an immortal Kobold Fighter 20 who has abused the power granted to him and rather than staying hidden has become a tyrant, ruling over a large kingdom with an army of evil Dragons, Kobolds and other draconic creatures. Then they go after a Dwarf Cleric 20 living in a elemental earth demi-plane. He's got a small clan of followers, plus a good collection of golems and earth elementals on his side. And I want them to finish all that before they hit 20.

Ranos
2010-01-21, 02:07 PM
Please explain how they could defeat the monk at level 5.
First of all, they need to fly out of his reach. Either alter self, fly, whatever. I imagine locking him down with grease would work too, since the monk has no balance, but that's more risky.
Then you just spam save or be helpless spells (I dunno, hold person ?) until he rolls a natural 1, and coup de grace him.

SpikeFightwicky
2010-01-21, 02:07 PM
Should be doable by level 5 or so, if they have decent enough tactics. The barbarian and the rogue are irrelevant, this fight is all up to the casters.

What are the casters going to do? All saves are higher than 20 and touch AC is huge.

Also, what kind of equipment does it have? If/when they kill it, they'll get tons of $$$ worth of loot.

It doesn't hit for very hard (2d10+5 is almost Ogre level damage). As long as the squishies stay away (flight?) it could maybe be doable at lvl 12-14.


First of all, they need to fly out of his reach. Either alter self, fly, whatever. I imagine locking him down with grease would work too, since the monk has no balance, but that's more risky.
Then you just spam save or be helpless spells (I dunno, hold person ?) until he rolls a natural 1, and coup de grace him.

They'd probably run out of spells or projectiles before that happened.

Sir Giacomo
2010-01-21, 02:10 PM
Interesting campaign concept, Dyllan!

Having said that, I'd estimate the upper end of tyckspoon's range, around level 17 for your pcs to make it challenging.

You should not underestimate that the pcs need something from this monk - they need to get the item from him, not only defeat him. And who knows where that item is? When it is on his body it is difficult to scry due to his high SR and will save.
As such, it's going to be very difficult to find her, and even then she moves quite fast...

Some ideas:
- I gather that she has some items that went to boosting her stats (in particular her DEX). You may wish to add an item that makes her fly (though you do not need to- at lvl 20 the monk can fly via etheralness, or choose the an indoor/cave setting for an encounter with the pcs and be fine with her +28 jump check even without any ranks in it).
- Swapping one of the feats (like great fortitude) out for improved natural attack could turn her base damage from 2d20 to 4d8, in case you intend higher damage output.
- you might also put a higher diplomacy skill in there to provide the monk with plant and animal allies in the mountain area (she can talk to them all day). In case you wish to raise the CR, you might have the monk ride on a roc or magical beast for flying.

- Giacomo

PS: I think the monk's DCs for stunning fist and quivering palm are too low - they should be 26 each (1/2 HD plus WIS). This can take out a party member quickly - so handle with care :smallsmile:

jiriku
2010-01-21, 02:12 PM
14-16 is reasonable. If you want that to be an option at lower end of the range, just build the monk for endurance and resilience instead of offense.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-01-21, 02:13 PM
Same way every other non-flying opponent is beaten. Get in the air, pull out your +1 crossbow, and wait until you roll enough 20s.

I guess... if they where fighting in the open on a field with no where to hide.


Ranos:

True about the grease... though the spam spells at him option wouldn't work as well do to the SR.

Eldariel
2010-01-21, 02:13 PM
So yeah, give her some means of flight. Maybe she's kept it hidden or whatever, but not being able to fly means the PCs will be able to face her purely on their terms making for lots of free hits and such.

As I said, I think level 13-14 is pretty good; the casters can deny her actions with various Fog/Wall effects while protecting themselves from hits, and the warriors should be able to hit already and contribute. It'd be a party effort, but they should be able to win.

2d10+5+1d4 only averages 17.5 damage so they can take a lot of hits. Assay Resistance, GSP & True Strike mean the Sorcerer should have a decent shot of getting through even if he's fallen for the silliness that is blasting, and the Cleric should do fine in melee while using the occasional offensive/defensive spell. And yeah, the Rogue should do fine against her Flat-Footed AC with Greater Invisibility.

Hallavast
2010-01-21, 02:15 PM
It'll really depend on the party's tactics...if the sorcerer likes to buff, and has, say, Fly in his repetoire, then the monk is pretty much screwed. If he's a blaster who likes SR-yes spells and never took Spell Penetration, then it'll be a lot harder for him to contribute. Is the cleric a battle-cleric or a healbot? Does the rogue understand the joys of UMD?

In other words: "how optimized is the party?"

OP:

I'm sure you are aware that there is more than one way to fly, turn/see invisible, plane travel, and so forth. I'm certain this monk has aquired all the magic she needed to adventure and survive to lvl 20. Also, consider increasing the monk's wisdom score further if possible.

You've obviously played with the group for a while. Consider their traditional tactics and potential knowledge of what they will be up against. I'd say Lvl 13-16 sounds safe. Adjust accordingly. She'll likely be able to get the jump on the party unless your sorcerer has some good divinations.

Dyllan
2010-01-21, 02:17 PM
They should be able to defeat her quite safely around level 13-14 provided we're talking casters using their whole repertoire in basic buffing and offensive manner. I'd say she's about CR 17 by MM standards (where Tarrasque is CR 20) assuming she has some means of flight (e.g. Wings of Flying). Her AC and saves are quite high for that level, but not unbeatable and her offense is unimpressive so she should make for a good boss fight.

Raging Barbarian should be able to get over +26 with relative ease (13 BAB, +11 (20+3+4+6) Rage Str, +3 weapon, Heroism, Haste = +30), Rogue with Invisibility gets her flat-footed and thus should hit, DC 23 Fort-save is doable for the martial types (Cleric, Barbarian) quite easily and Sorcerer and Rogue should have the means to avoid her attacks.

That seems a rather reasonable analysis. I think I will send them after her as soon as someone in the party hits 14. Right now they're all level 10 and 11. And do you think I should award experience as a CR 17? By the book, it should be a CR 20, but this is no Tarrasque.

However, it will be a very annoying fight for them. She'll try to disarm the barbarian and throw his weapon over the side of the mountain... repeatedly if he draws more weapons. And if she gets in trouble, she'll run. They'll have a hard time keeping up with her speed. Home turf advantage will make this a major headache for them, unless they get a few lucky hits in at just the right time, or play it smart (trapping her in a cave with a wall of some sort, for instance... after getting her to use her dimensional door... or deep enough in with two wall spells).

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-21, 02:19 PM
That seems a rather reasonable analysis. I think I will send them after her as soon as someone in the party hits 14. Right now they're all level 10 and 11. And do you think I should award experience as a CR 17? By the book, it should be a CR 20, but this is no Tarrasque.

However, it will be a very annoying fight for them. She'll try to disarm the barbarian and throw his weapon over the side of the mountain... repeatedly if he draws more weapons. And if she gets in trouble, she'll run. They'll have a hard time keeping up with her speed. Home turf advantage will make this a major headache for them, unless they get a few lucky hits in at just the right time, or play it smart (trapping her in a cave with a wall of some sort, for instance... after getting her to use her dimensional door... or deep enough in with two wall spells).The Tarrasque is viewed as a wimpy monster for exactly the same reason. There are multiple builds designed to take it out at ECL 13, basically by flying and dropping rocks on it's head. Flight becomes common after EPL 10, any monster that wants to remain competitive needs flight or it's screwed.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-01-21, 02:19 PM
That seems a rather reasonable analysis. I think I will send them after her as soon as someone in the party hits 14. Right now they're all level 10 and 11. And do you think I should award experience as a CR 17? By the book, it should be a CR 20, but this is no Tarrasque.

However, it will be a very annoying fight for them. She'll try to disarm the barbarian and throw his weapon over the side of the mountain... repeatedly if he draws more weapons. And if she gets in trouble, she'll run. They'll have a hard time keeping up with her speed. Home turf advantage will make this a major headache for them, unless they get a few lucky hits in at just the right time, or play it smart (trapping her in a cave with a wall of some sort, for instance... after getting her to use her dimensional door... or deep enough in with two wall spells).

don't forget she can slip into the mountain via etheralness

Dyllan
2010-01-21, 02:29 PM
Interesting campaign concept, Dyllan!
Thanks. I'll be posting more about it later... as I try to figure out further aspects.


You should not underestimate that the pcs need something from this monk - they need to get the item from him, not only defeat him. And who knows where that item is? When it is on his body it is difficult to scry due to his high SR and will save.
As such, it's going to be very difficult to find her, and even then she moves quite fast...

Well, they're going to be more or less sent to her mountain. The villagers will know about her, and to avoid the mountain. They'll know what they're looking for, and should put two and two together. After nearly a thousand years, she doesn't really expect anyone to be coming after the artifact, and will attack the party (planning to subdue, not kill) to keep them off her mountain... at least, until it becomes obvious they're not the normal pushover adventurers. She does keep the item on her, and scrying is obviously not likely to work. The BBEG who hired the party for this (that reveal will be SO much fun) figured out who she was through old fashioned historical research, and figured out where she was after a few hundred years of searching. Same goes for the other two they'll be going after.


Some ideas:
- I gather that she has some items that went to boosting her stats (in particular her DEX). You may wish to add an item that makes her fly (though you do not need to- at lvl 20 the monk can fly via etheralness, or choose the an indoor/cave setting for an encounter with the pcs and be fine with her +28 jump check even without any ranks in it).
I'm intentionally not making her fly so that she won't be able to quickly dispatch the sorcerer. She can force them to fight her somewhere where flight isn't such a tactical advantage, if they decide to try the "everyone fly and shoot her to death" tactic.


- Swapping one of the feats (like great fortitude) out for improved natural attack could turn her base damage from 2d20 to 4d8, in case you intend higher damage output.
I like that. I think I might also swap out for Blind Fight, in retrospect.


- you might also put a higher diplomacy skill in there to provide the monk with plant and animal allies in the mountain area (she can talk to them all day). In case you wish to raise the CR, you might have the monk ride on a roc or magical beast for flying.

That won't work, because as a PC she specifically avoided the diplomacy skill so she wouldn't have to roleplay as much. It was her first (and last) D&D character (although her husband is playing the rogue in this campaign... he's been in every successful D&D campaign I've run).


PS: I think the monk's DCs for stunning fist and quivering palm are too low - they should be 26 each (1/2 HD plus WIS). This can take out a party member quickly - so handle with care :smallsmile:

Thanks for the heads up. I wrote the 23 in before I gave her adjustments for aging, and forgot to modify it. It's fixed now.

Dyllan
2010-01-21, 02:33 PM
don't forget she can slip into the mountain via etheralness

I had forgotten that. That screws over any "trap her with walls" method to keep her from escaping.

Actually, they'll have a real hard time keeping her from escaping, I think. This one will likely drive my players crazy, chasing her all over the mountain.

Eldariel
2010-01-21, 02:35 PM
That seems a rather reasonable analysis. I think I will send them after her as soon as someone in the party hits 14. Right now they're all level 10 and 11. And do you think I should award experience as a CR 17? By the book, it should be a CR 20, but this is no Tarrasque.

Give XP kinda on-spot basis. CR is really random anyways. Give 'em CR 20 XP if you feel like it, but eh...


However, it will be a very annoying fight for them. She'll try to disarm the barbarian and throw his weapon over the side of the mountain... repeatedly if he draws more weapons. And if she gets in trouble, she'll run. They'll have a hard time keeping up with her speed. Home turf advantage will make this a major headache for them, unless they get a few lucky hits in at just the right time, or play it smart (trapping her in a cave with a wall of some sort, for instance... after getting her to use her dimensional door... or deep enough in with two wall spells).

And that it should be; it shouldn't be easy. Note though that they'll have a lot of teleportation so keeping up with her speed shouldn't be hard as long as they make use of combat teleportation. Dimension Door moves MUCH faster than even running Monk, and when she uses Dimension Door...well, they can. Sorcerer has a lot of 'em, and it can be used for whole party and with the familiar, touching the whole party in the round is no problem.

I warn you not to focus her too much on the Barb though; if played intelligently, she'd probably go after the Sorcerer first if possible as she's the most suspectible to her attacks and is at least as dangerous as the rest. Though switching her focus, trying to keep opponents disabled might be more interesting than trying to take out the most dangerous opponent first. If she can take the Sorc out, the battle will turn decidedly in her favor though. Of course, as they won't probably cast too many divinations before engaging the opponent and thus might be ill-prepared, so giving them some tips beforehand to prepare for e.g. dealing with Etherealness (they have access to Ethereal Jaunt and could scroll Etherealness if they're aware) may be very key. Maybe some people subjected to the "Mountain Spirit"'s attacks remember it slipping into parallel world with them before they lost consciousness or something.


But yeah, the Fort DC 26 should be fairly hard for the Sorc and the Rogue (something along the lines of 50/50 or so), while the Barbarian and Cleric should most likely be near the 75% success range at least. +5-+6 Resistance (depending on if Superior Resistance is in play), +9 from a good progression, +4-+6 Con means they'll be around +20. +3 Morale for Cleric (from e.g. Recitation), +3 Con for Barb from Rage and we're looking at ~+23 or so.

Sir Giacomo
2010-01-21, 02:39 PM
I like that. I think I might also swap out for Blind Fight, in retrospect.


In that case, you may also consider the ability focus feat for stunning fist, raising the DC to 28...something even the barbarian in rage may have difficulty to handle... and possibly having lived hundreds of years may result in an even higher WIS score...:smallwink:

Btw, with a CHR of 16, the monk could still have the animals and plants near her mountain made friendly towards her over the centuries. When you say that she was not into diplomacy with people, possibly as npc over the centuries she developed more of a hermit life getting along well with the flora and fauna (very zen like).

- Giacomo

Edit: Another idea for this adventure: Have her quivering palm a party member and then blackmail the rest of the party to leave her alone or she wills their friend to die (she may have done that near the pcs with another npc to show them she can do it before).
A lot of roleplaying opportunities ensue!
Edit2: you can also have her shoot with a bow/crossbow (quivering palm applies to all attacks) from hiding to get this done.

Kaiyanwang
2010-01-21, 02:41 PM
In that case, you may also consider the ability focus feat for stunning fist, raising the DC to 28...something even the barbarian in rage may have difficulty to handle... and possibly having lived hundreds of years may result in an even higher WIS score...:smallwink:

Btw, with a CHR of 16, the monk could still have the animals and plants near her mountain made friendly towards her over the centuries. When you say that she was not into diplomacy with people, possibly as npc over the centuries she developed more of a hermit life getting along well with the flora and fauna (very zen like).

- Giacomo

Leadership (cohort with handle animal as an exmple) and wild cohort feats could bring a mechanical support to this concept.

Dyllan
2010-01-21, 02:49 PM
I warn you not to focus her too much on the Barb though; if played intelligently, she'd probably go after the Sorcerer first if possible as she's the most suspectible to her attacks and is at least as dangerous as the rest. Though switching her focus, trying to keep opponents disabled might be more interesting than trying to take out the most dangerous opponent first. If she can take the Sorc out, the battle will turn decidedly in her favor though. Of course, as they won't probably cast too many divinations before engaging the opponent and thus might be ill-prepared, so giving them some tips beforehand to prepare for e.g. dealing with Etherealness (they have access to Ethereal Jaunt and could scroll Etherealness if they're aware) may be very key. Maybe some people subjected to the "Mountain Spirit"'s attacks remember it slipping into parallel world with them before they lost consciousness or something.

I think that's exactly how she'll play it. She won't use quivering palm unless she fears for her life, as she doesn't want to kill anyone. But she'll throw out stun fists like they're candy, on everyone. She'll disarm the barbarian, and the cleric, and the rogue if she can manage it. I imagine the PCs will not be happy when they see their weapons thrown over a cliff. Or if she gets really upset, she can use etherealness to go all sword in the stone with them. If the party's smart enough to interrogate the townsfolk, they'll find most don't mind her much... she never kills, and they understand her rules. But there will be one person who lost a loved one (mistakes do happen when level 20 characters have to deal with low level commoners) due to a mistake the Mountain Spirit made. She'll have all sorts of information (which the PCs will have to sift through for the truth) to help. If they say they're planning to kill the Mountain Spirit, she'll even offer her home, warm meals, and anything else she can to help.



But yeah, the Fort DC 26 should be fairly hard for the Sorc and the Rogue (something along the lines of 50/50 or so), while the Barbarian and Cleric should most likely be near the 75% success range at least. +5-+6 Resistance (depending on if Superior Resistance is in play), +9 from a good progression, +4-+6 Con means they'll be around +20. +3 Morale for Cleric (from e.g. Recitation), +3 Con for Barb from Rage and we're looking at ~+23 or so.

Superior Resistance is not in play... we're working almost exclusively with core. But they will each have at least a +3 cloak (or vest) of resistance, and if they're smart they'll buff themselves up. Quivering palm won't come out until the monk fears for her life - and then only if she thinks she can't escape. And stun fist... well, that just makes it more fun.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-21, 02:50 PM
I see no method of flight listed. Likewise, I see a lack of viable ranged options. Thus, barring her 1/day use of dimension door, she's mostly harmless against flying attackers. Despite her good saves, an optimized caster at level 9+ still has a reasonable chance of SoDing her in a single round.

Also, she knocks them out, not kills them. So...a guy going down is not a big deal. I wouldn't hesitate to throw such a character at my current party that ranges between level 8 and 11. I'd probably toss in some sidekicks to make it more fun.

Basically, if you have a caster, a monk w/o ranged attacks or flight is just doomed.

Eldariel
2010-01-21, 02:55 PM
I see no method of flight listed. Likewise, I see a lack of viable ranged options. Thus, barring her 1/day use of dimension door, she's mostly harmless against flying attackers. Despite her good saves, an optimized caster at level 9+ still has a reasonable chance of SoDing her in a single round.

Also, she knocks them out, not kills them. So...a guy going down is not a big deal. I wouldn't hesitate to throw such a character at my current party that ranges between level 8 and 11. I'd probably toss in some sidekicks to make it more fun.

Basically, if you have a caster, a monk w/o ranged attacks or flight is just doomed.

I think the idea is she'll retreat into a cave or something and force the party to fight in cramped quarters to partially negate flight.

Dyllan
2010-01-21, 03:01 PM
In that case, you may also consider the ability focus feat for stunning fist, raising the DC to 28...something even the barbarian in rage may have difficulty to handle... and possibly having lived hundreds of years may result in an even higher WIS score...:smallwink:

Ability Focus. I hadn't thought of that one either. Well, on my copy I've already dropped Iron Will for Improved Natural Attack and Great Fortitude for Blind Fight. I think I'll drop Combat Reflexes for Ability Focus: Stunning Fist. I'll edit the original to fix it (also noticed I had the initiative bonus wrong... forgot Improved Initiative).


Btw, with a CHR of 16, the monk could still have the animals and plants near her mountain made friendly towards her over the centuries. When you say that she was not into diplomacy with people, possibly as npc over the centuries she developed more of a hermit life getting along well with the flora and fauna (very zen like).
True. But I really want to make this a solo fight. The next two will be anything but, and I thought it would be a good change of pace. Also, it should give the party a false sense of confidence as they go after the kobold fighter next.


Edit: Another idea for this adventure: Have her quivering palm a party member and then blackmail the rest of the party to leave her alone or she wills their friend to die (she may have done that near the pcs with another npc to show them she can do it before).
A lot of roleplaying opportunities ensue!
Edit2: you can also have her shoot with a bow/crossbow (quivering palm applies to all attacks) from hiding to get this done.

I thought of that quivering palm thing, but I really want to try to avoid this becoming a diplomatic exchange. If it does, they're likely to figure out what's going on a bit earlier than I want them to. The players will undoubtedly figure it out before it's over, but the PCs need to be in the dark enough that they finish the quest. Luckily, most of my players are good enough of roleplayers to ignore such player knowledge and keep acting on what the PC knows. And the one who's most likely to act on player knowledge is also the one who's easiest to deceive.