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Rasman
2010-01-21, 08:14 PM
In lue of just getting myself killed, I've been playing with the idea of gaining a Dragonfire Adept as a cohort. I have a good grasp of what I want this adept to be able to do and considering he can make me immune to his breath weapon, he works REALLY well with a grapple focused monk.

My only problem is that our DM seems to have an aversion to letting us have cool things that we want, rather than cool things that he gives us. Example being I gave him a list of items, that were relatively cheap that I could afford on a budget of 5000gp at level 7, and he skimmed over the first page (I had about 5 pages), told me it was all garbage and to not worry about it :smallfurious:. He's on the short end of my last nerve, but I'm still going to be diplomatic about it.

How can I convince a DM with power problems to let me have a DFA Cohort in a Pathfinder Setting?

BenTheJester
2010-01-21, 08:56 PM
5 pages of items?

Really?


And Leadership is not a feat you have to take as being available in every campaign. It is a very overpowered feat. Your cohort can (and will, if you play a low tier class such as monk or fighter) end up stronger than you.


I'm sorry for you, but I have to side with the DM on that one

Rasman
2010-01-21, 10:12 PM
5 pages of items?

Really?


And Leadership is not a feat you have to take as being available in every campaign. It is a very overpowered feat. Your cohort can (and will, if you play a low tier class such as monk or fighter) end up stronger than you.


I'm sorry for you, but I have to side with the DM on that one

it wasn't just the names of items, it included everything they did, so it was really not that much

Leadership is very much available in this campaign, we've already had one person take a Cohort...he just doesn't do much with it...

so you're saying take what I'm given and just deal with it? Is it suddenly sinful for me to want to make my character as effective as possible?

SilveryCord
2010-01-21, 10:14 PM
You're not so much making your character more affective as you are adding on a second character to your character, really.

Magnor Criol
2010-01-21, 10:18 PM
Not at all, it's just fine for you to want that. But your DM is within reasonability for choosing to disallow things, too, depending on the setting and 'feel' he wants for the world.

For instance, the items - deciding not to run a Magic Item Wal-Mart with everything in it is really a pretty common decision. Not all magic items will always be available. Though if you have the ability to visit some huge metropolis, it seems like you'd be able to find basically anything you want there with some searching - or at least, find someone to MAKE it.

MAybe us in-game solutions to your problems. Try and talk your party into swinging by your nearest metropolis or temple of Boccob (or whatever god fills the knowledge/magic brackets in your local cosmology) and seeing if they can craft those things for you, for a price of course.

Just brushing off your concerns with a quick "don't worry about it" does seem a bit brusque, though, considering you obviously care enough to put decent effort into making your case.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-21, 10:18 PM
Yeah...
If you were using anything other than Leadership, you'd have a much better case. But if you push for this, it will just give the DM a precedent to point to. You have a good case to make (if it's true), between your examples and your fellow players'. Don't waste it on a mechanic that's actually overpowered.

Rasman
2010-01-22, 02:59 AM
You're not so much making your character more affective as you are adding on a second character to your character, really.

if I really wanted that, I'd just ask if anyone was going to run a Gesalt game


Not at all, it's just fine for you to want that. But your DM is within reasonability for choosing to disallow things, too, depending on the setting and 'feel' he wants for the world.

For instance, the items - deciding not to run a Magic Item Wal-Mart with everything in it is really a pretty common decision. Not all magic items will always be available. Though if you have the ability to visit some huge metropolis, it seems like you'd be able to find basically anything you want there with some searching - or at least, find someone to MAKE it.

Maybe use in-game solutions to your problems. Try and talk your party into swinging by your nearest metropolis or temple of Boccob (or whatever god fills the knowledge/magic brackets in your local cosmology) and seeing if they can craft those things for you, for a price of course.

Just brushing off your concerns with a quick "don't worry about it" does seem a bit brusque, though, considering you obviously care enough to put decent effort into making your case.

is asking for some of these things while sitting in a tower full of some of the world's most powerful wizards not a magical metropolis?

It's not that the items are inaccessible, like I'm wanting to buy them while sitting in the middle of nowhere, I mean, when I asked if I could get Shapesand and he told me that it's only really purchasable back in my homeland of Osirion, I didn't make a big deal about it because it makes sense. But when I can't get a wand of enlarge person that lasts longer than 5 rounds, that's when I start getting tiffed, especially since the Min duration is 1min, i.e. 10 rounds if you go off the whole 1round=6seconds logic.

I'm just tired of the whole, "you're new so your opinion doesn't count" attitude, so I figured if I could actually take a monk and make it effectual in combat without him handing me items on a silver platter, I would at least get a little respect, even if that means taking a Cohort to help diversify my abilities

I'm not trying to be a game breaker, I would have become a diviner if I really wanted to screw him, but in consideration of the type of encounters he throws at us, I have to find something I can do in order to be effective on the battlefield other than being food for the troll when the fighter withdraws.

Eloel
2010-01-22, 04:54 AM
if I really wanted that, I'd just ask if anyone was going to run a Gesalt game


Which means, you do not understand the slightest of how gestalt works.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-01-22, 05:36 AM
The magic items thing seems like a bigger deal than not allowing leadership.

Rasman
2010-01-22, 05:59 AM
Which means, you do not understand the slightest of how gestalt works.

or I could possibly be implying that I'd just run a Gestalt Monk/DFA and I actually do understand how Gestalt works


The magic items thing seems like a bigger deal than not allowing leadership.

not going to argue that...I mean, when you put work into something and then have someone tell you you wasted your time because you're a newb it tends to make you want to throw them into some sort of magically sealed portal, I just can't really find a positive for making my case about it considering he IS the world and if the world suddenly runs out of items a monk could possibly find useful, I'm kinda screwed

...and it's not that I'm not allowed leadership, it's that I'm going to have to make a case for the type of cohort I want OR he's going to tell me that that's not the type of cohort I want, I'd rather have a wizard to buff me as a Cohort because that's what someone who knew what they were doing would do...etc etc :smallfurious: etc

Optimystik
2010-01-22, 09:35 AM
Leadership is very much available in this campaign, we've already had one person take a Cohort...he just doesn't do much with it...

Does his have PC class levels? And if so, what class is he and what class is his cohort?


so you're saying take what I'm given and just deal with it? Is it suddenly sinful for me to want to make my character as effective as possible?

It is very possible to make an effective character without leadership.

Eloel
2010-01-22, 09:40 AM
or I could possibly be implying that I'd just run a Gestalt Monk/DFA and I actually do understand how Gestalt works


You are still running a single character in Gestalt - here, you want to run 2 PCs at once. They're different enough - if you comprehend Gestalt principles.

If you tell your DM that you want 2 PCs, you have a better chance, compared to grabbing the most broken feat ever for an extra character that breaks XP economy.

Jayabalard
2010-01-22, 09:52 AM
My first thought: Deterministic Finite State Automata don't generally make good cohorts; they don't react well to situations that you haven't planned excessively for.


it wasn't just the names of items, it included everything they did, so it was really not that muchSo, give us a better idea of how many.

Even then, 5 pages of junk to read over seems a bit excessive.


so you're saying take what I'm given and just deal with it? Is it suddenly sinful for me to want to make my character as effective as possible?No, he didn't say that, you're just overreacting.

It really sounds an awful lot like you're new to that particular gaming group and are getting upset that the GM is not willing to change the game to accommodate you, and that you want a very different play style than the GM is providing. If so, that sounds totally unreasonable to me; you need to check your expectations at the door.

If you're trying to push your effectiveness higher than the rest of the group, well, yes it is "sinful for [you] to want to make [your] character as effective as possible" ... that seems a definite possibility considering that you say that you "already had one person take a Cohort...he just doesn't do much with it" .

Tyndmyr
2010-01-22, 10:19 AM
I'd be upset over random wand duration nerfs like that too...Enlarge person on a monk is hardly a broken combo, after all.

That said, if he doesn't allow trivial, commonplace magic items to function as normal, he probably won't allow leadership.

Jayabalard
2010-01-22, 10:39 AM
That said, if he doesn't allow trivial, commonplace magic items to function as normal, he probably won't allow leadership.He does allow leadership; nor are those really related in any way.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-22, 10:42 AM
They're related due to power, and his stated claim that his DM dislikes them gaining powerful stuff. A pet DFA is much more powerful than a wand of enlarge person.

OP, go for it. I still expect he'll ban it in some way. Either by disallowing or nerfing DFA, or saying "you cant take leadership".